Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by darkath

 

---

I was looking foward to this game. But i dont like how they want to make is a complete free for all. With everything being able to be stolen and you can be killed anywhere even in cities. Sorry i dont want someone who plays 12 hours a day because they have no job or life stealing all my crap and killing me.

---

 

This is not likely to happen, as if you are in a city :
1) you can defend yourself
2) everybody can attack your aggressor without consequences + city guards
3) everybody can loot him without consequences
4) even if he kills you he wont be able to loot you before dying
5) even if he kills you, people who try to loot you will be flagged and have the same fate as the aggressor.

And outside a city, even if he plays 12 hours a day and you 2 hours a day, the chances in 1v1 are quite even, because the game is more player skill based (you aim your strikes and your sheild blocks) than character skill or gear based.

 

All of this remains to be seen.  I have yet to see a brand new flagging system that didn't have a large number of loopholes and exploits - where people "play the mechanics" of the system to make it work contrary to the way it was intended.

Same thing with the "player skill based" claims.  Just about every PvP game makes this claim.  Still, MO characters will have skills, and I presume those skills will make some sort of difference.  Just how many afk-macroers will infest this game from the start, in the pursuit of every possible statistical advantage?

I'm interested in this game, but these days, these types of games seem to attract the worst type of human beings available, in numbers much larger than what you'll find in most other MMOs.  So many want complete freedom, with no consequences.  If MO goes that direction, this community will become the same cesspool you see in a game like Darkfall.

As someone above already stated, why is "sandbox MMO" most often synonymous with "MMO playground for the most sociopathic losers on the face of the planet".  I guess a more civilized sandbox, with some actual consequences for the most aberrent and antisocial behavior, just wouldn't be "hardcore" enough, huh?

I honestly hope MO is better than this, but I'm extremely skeptical.

Well the main man, Henrik, behind the game claims to have been a red in UO for some time so I'm guessing they will be fairly lenient to their reds, although I hope otherwise.

This game is my new home for the next coming 5 years if it lasts that long. This game is going to be proof that swedish people make the best damn games! And that we know what is good and not, when it comes to MMO mechanics features.

Originally posted by jusomdude 

Well the main man, Henrik, behind the game claims to have been a red in UO for some time so I'm guessing they will be fairly lenient to their reds, although I hope otherwise.

Quite the contrary. Henrik wants playing as a red to be a challenge. It in no way means that he will be lenient towards reds.

I am looking forward  to this game as well and I only have a couple of things at the moment that really concern me.   The lack of 3rd person view and how they are going to be handling combat.    If they put in auto blocking instead of player controlled blocking (like Mount and Blade has) I suspect this game will not hold my interest for long.   As for the 3rd person view.   I understand the reasoning behind having only first person view, but I seriously think this will stop a huge amount of people from playing simply because - players like to see their characters!   I know I do.   I like to watch my character perform actions and to see how she looks in her gear and for RPing purposes it is nice to be able to see my character and the other peoples characters I am playing with in game.

I think the lack of 3rd person view is really going to hurt this game in the long run.

Originally posted by kishe

Originally posted by tigris67

sounds 10x better than Darkfall.

 

Darkfall sounded best thing since sliced bread right until it was released

the hell it did..........

Haven't read the conversation thread yet, but this game is looking very interesting.  Free pvp and stealing?  Awesome.  I probably won't be stealing or attacking people...well not attacking people much, but just the risk of it is fun.

Originally posted by Halfmad

Interesting idea,  especially if it were put in as a primary skill which was subject to a hard cap. They'd mean people essentially having to sacrifice something else useful to get a very high search skill.

I like that idea.  Giving up a primary skill in order for just the chance to be a better pvper sounds great on paper.  I hope they take that idea and make it work.

Originally posted by Nithir

This game is my new home for the next coming 5 years if it lasts that long. This game is going to be proof that swedish people make the best damn games! And that we know what is good and not, when it comes to MMO mechanics features.

Well, I hope your faith in this game is confirmed.

Originally posted by Teala

I am looking forward  to this game as well and I only have a couple of things at the moment that really concern me.   The lack of 3rd person view and how they are going to be handling combat.    If they put in auto blocking instead of player controlled blocking (like Mount and Blade has) I suspect this game will not hold my interest for long.   As for the 3rd person view.   I understand the reasoning behind having only first person view, but I seriously think this will stop a huge amount of people from playing simply because - players like to see their characters!   I know I do.   I like to watch my character perform actions and to see how she looks in her gear and for RPing purposes it is nice to be able to see my character and the other peoples characters I am playing with in game.

I think the lack of 3rd person view is really going to hurt this game in the long run.

I should think that a first-person view would come more in handy for RPing purposes. You can always open the charecter sheet or find a mirror i you wanna play dress up :)

But seriously, i'm thrilled that a game like this comes out, they really target a niche market, but if they hold on to their convictions, they'll have a loyal fanbase for years to come. I'm also always happy to see my neighboors to the north be succesful at video game making!

There are so many aspects and features which appeal to me it is uncanny. Before these guys went to work on this game they really did some great thinking by focusing so much on game mechanics rather than how they want to attract a massive amount of very different people or how to best exploit an existing IP.

To me (as a concept developer but not game related) it seems they took the words; "immersion", "freedom", "realism" and "diversity" and had those in mind when brainstorming on every feature or mechanic.

From the way how you can tame wild animals to become mounts (which will never be in your inventory) to the crossbreeding system where you can pick your parent's and their parent's races at character creation which decides the blend of your racial stats and looks. (And has RP'ers shaping their character's background story from the very start).

From how tooltips give different information based on your skill levels (the generic 'Red Flower' is a 'Desert Rose' for specialists) to the crafting system where players are free to use a vast amount of materials and designs and make them into different parts which combine into the weapon you want.

From player housing and how you can expand on those to the way how unique boss monsters only die once, to be replaced by another menace and probably somewhere else (and how they can be controlled by GM's during an encounter).

From the way you discover the map and how discovery and cartography can actually be proffitable proffessions, to how your alts learn certain things your main learned in the game with the Deva skill system.

Etc, ect.

I haven't even touched how they aim for exciting and immersive, real time combat and the freedom in world pvp.

I am not saying "this game can't go wrong" or that there won't be aspects in which they can screw up big time at launch, but what I've read so far really appeals to me. In theory this game comes close to the perfect MMORPG to me.

:)

Amen to that! They even talked about how, when you kill all the carnivors of a certain forest the herbivore population are going to take overhand. I know they said that they weren't going to include that at launch, but just stating it means that they have put some thought into the mechanism, and if and when they include it, THAT will be the perfect mmorpg for me.

Originally posted by Taclis

Amen to that! They even talked about how, when you kill all the carnivors of a certain forest the herbivore population are going to take overhand. I know they said that they weren't going to include that at launch, but just stating it means that they have put some thought into the mechanism, and if and when they include it, THAT will be the perfect mmorpg for me.

That sounds awesome as well. The whole idea of a developing, changing world is ace in my book. So many mmorpgs take the easy way out to make the world static and only governed by day and night cycles and respawn timers.

When the world and it's non-player population is dynamic you never know what is around the next corner. That will generate some disapointments; ("I swear you gusy! It was here yesterday!"), but also many "WTF!" moments and it gives incentives to also visit places where you have been before.

Most mmorpgs I played have a world devided strictly in zones tied to player level ranges with not much incentives to be in places outside your level range (a.k.a. the biggest part of the world), in MO, where you were merily picking flowers yesterday, a tribe of trolls might have moved in this morning. I really love that unpredictability :)

---

Originally posted by Kyleran

Interesting slip of the tongue.  Review (and others) have stated the game is firmly in beta and due to release sometime soon _[TM]. 
i doubt it will release any time this year myself, but the review did make it sound interesting.
Like others, I'm not a fan of allowing thieving, unless thieves suffer serious consequences like they would in the real world.
FFA PVP everywhere makes me have doubts also, unless the consequences system is amazing and beyond anything I've ever seen the game will devolve into a gankfest.
To the aplogists who say I'll need to re-learn how to play MMO's and what not, I say you sound exactly like the Darkfall folks and we all pretty much know how that game's turning out.
We'll see how it goes, and I'm sure some folks will thrill to the game's mechanics, but probably not me.
 

---

"consequences system" is simple. It doesn't have to have billions of restrictions. It should rather have only couple, to make players think before doing things considered as unacceptable.

Do not forget about FF, cause everyone whines around about zerging and other shit like this.

Every time i read someone post (I was looking faward to that game) What is coming next? Carebear request or they still get concerned about the third person view. Well... MO is not for everyone so go back to wow  and dont make my game become a trammel like UO.

There will never be any insurence, 3rd person view will never be implemented, stealing will be balanced, but it will stay.

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Every time i read someone post (I was looking faward to that game) What is coming next? Carebear request or they still get concerned about the third person view. Well... MO is not for everyone so go back to wow  and dont make my game become a trammel like UO.

There will never be any insurence, 3rd person view will never be implemented, stealing will be balanced, but it will stay.

Posts like this just get me.  They show complete ignorance of what has happened in past MMO's.  All I can say, boy are you in for a rude surprise.  The playerbase has gotten a lot worse than when UO  was around pre trammel.  It was not trammel that hurt UO, it was the Age of Shadows, where they made equipment determine the out come of fights rather than skill.

Without consequences, servers self destruct.  Too many people take advantage of gaps in rules and the rest just say to heck with it.

So for the ignorant, I reiterate, without decent consequences you end up with a dead game.  Any knowledgable developer knows that and I am sure from what I have seen so far of this game that will be true here.

I wish them luck, I would like to give this game a try.  Darkfall is such a disaster waiting to happen because of completely clueless developers.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Every time i read someone post (I was looking faward to that game) What is coming next? Carebear request or they still get concerned about the third person view. Well... MO is not for everyone so go back to wow  and dont make my game become a trammel like UO.

There will never be any insurence, 3rd person view will never be implemented, stealing will be balanced, but it will stay.

 

Posts like this just get me.  They show complete ignorance of what has happened in past MMO's.  All I can say, boy are you in for a rude surprise.  The playerbase has gotten a lot worse than when UO  was around pre trammel.  It was not trammel that hurt UO, it was the Age of Shadows, where they made equipment determine the out come of fights rather than skill.

Without consequences, servers self destruct.  Too many people take advantage of gaps in rules and the rest just say to heck with it.

So for the ignorant, I reiterate, without decent consequences you end up with a dead game.  Any knowledgable developer knows that and I am sure from what I have seen so far of this game that will be true here.

I wish them luck, I would like to give this game a try.  Darkfall is such a disaster waiting to happen because of completely clueless developers.

This.

What a shame, this game looked like the MMO of my dreams until I read about the full loot, completely open PvP, and thieving. Have sandbox game developers learned nothing? The sort of player that this sort of open PvP/PvP looting system attracts are the rabid frothing-at-the-mouth griefers who enjoy making the game unplayable for anyone not in their "1337 z3rg clanz0r" and anyone who doesn't travel with an army. We need a sandbox game that appeals to more than the average PvP griefer.

The flagging system won't matter. People will exploit game mechanics to get away with whatever they want, whenever they want. That's just the maturity level of the PvP griefer crowd that this sort of system attracts. Don't believe me? Think i'm just trolling? Go play Darkfall, or Age of Conan open PvP server, or even a WoW PvP server. Any of those will have stealthed rogues ganking and backstabbing and stealing from you just because they can get a kick out of it, and just because they have nothing better to do. Any of those will have groups of immature asshats camping instance entrances and spamming "lolcopter you all sux your mom is fat i pwn you etc etc" in global chat while they zerg anyone who tries to get in. Any of those will have a group of immature asshats who hang around at the side of a well traveled road like a pack of starving animals waiting to zerg, kill, and usualy corpse camp/grief, anyone unlucky enough to cross. And these types of players are -everywhere-. Most of them -are- like that.

With full looting to stack on top of it all? Wow, good luck accomplishing -anything-  -ever- outside of a zerg guild. You'll end up with a few barbaric zerg guilds just randomly killing people and looting them in the end, and drive all those players who want no part of griefing away from the game entirely. And not a lot of players playing your game.

So let the handful of rabid griefers go at it in the PvP servers, and add a more realistic PvP system  as part of a different server. The world isn't ready to responsibly and maturely handle a fully open PvP system, let alone PvP looting. Past MMO's have proven that fully open PvP -always- degrades into total anarchy and gankfests.

Originally posted by Aelya

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Every time i read someone post (I was looking faward to that game) What is coming next? Carebear request or they still get concerned about the third person view. Well... MO is not for everyone so go back to wow  and dont make my game become a trammel like UO.

There will never be any insurence, 3rd person view will never be implemented, stealing will be balanced, but it will stay.

 

Posts like this just get me.  They show complete ignorance of what has happened in past MMO's.  All I can say, boy are you in for a rude surprise.  The playerbase has gotten a lot worse than when UO  was around pre trammel.  It was not trammel that hurt UO, it was the Age of Shadows, where they made equipment determine the out come of fights rather than skill.

Without consequences, servers self destruct.  Too many people take advantage of gaps in rules and the rest just say to heck with it.

So for the ignorant, I reiterate, without decent consequences you end up with a dead game.  Any knowledgable developer knows that and I am sure from what I have seen so far of this game that will be true here.

I wish them luck, I would like to give this game a try.  Darkfall is such a disaster waiting to happen because of completely clueless developers.

 

This.

What a shame, this game looked like the MMO of my dreams until I read about the full loot, completely open PvP, and thieving. Have sandbox game developers learned nothing? The sort of player that this sort of open PvP/PvP looting system attracts are the rabid frothing-at-the-mouth griefers who enjoy making the game unplayable for anyone not in their "1337 z3rg clanz0r" and anyone who doesn't travel with an army. We need a sandbox game that appeals to more than the average PvP griefer.

The flagging system won't matter. People will exploit game mechanics to get away with whatever they want, whenever they want. That's just the maturity level of the PvP griefer crowd that this sort of system attracts. Don't believe me? Think i'm just trolling? Go play Darkfall, or Age of Conan open PvP server, or even a WoW PvP server. Any of those will have stealthed rogues ganking and backstabbing and stealing from you just because they can get a kick out of it, and just because they have nothing better to do. Any of those will have groups of immature asshats camping instance entrances and spamming "lolcopter you all sux your mom is fat i pwn you etc etc" in global chat while they zerg anyone who tries to get in. Any of those will have a group of immature asshats who hang around at the side of a well traveled road like a pack of starving animals waiting to zerg, kill, and usualy corpse camp/grief, anyone unlucky enough to cross. And these types of players are -everywhere-. Most of them -are- like that.

With full looting to stack on top of it all? Wow, good luck accomplishing -anything-  -ever- outside of a zerg guild. You'll end up with a few barbaric zerg guilds just randomly killing people and looting them in the end, and drive all those players who want no part of griefing away from the game entirely. And not a lot of players playing your game.

So let the handful of rabid griefers go at it in the PvP servers, and add a more realistic PvP system  as part of a different server. The world isn't ready to responsibly and maturely handle a fully open PvP system, let alone PvP looting. Past MMO's have proven that fully open PvP -always- degrades into total anarchy and gankfests.

1) There are no instance entrances. If you can go into a dungeon, so can everyone else, into the very same dungeon with you and everyone in it.

2) Zerg's work well when there is unbalanced AoE mechanics and no friendly fire. MO will have friendly fire. Careful with that zerg Eugene. You could do more harm than good.

3) gear has weight. You can only carry so much much gear before you cant move. Sure in the early days people will loot everything, just like Fallout 3. But you learn to drop the plates and cups and mugs and only loot the things you want.

4) Some people are tired of waiting for the world to change. These people are the ones trying to make the change.

5) There is no global chat. They have talked about your first 20 hours (in game) you cannot be attacked. So the first 20 hours is your "tutorial" time to get your wits about you.

6) This game isnt for everyone. We can all argue back and forth of what we think makes a great MMO. The developers of this game created it with the idea in mind that it is for a niche group. They are making their game the way they always wanted a game to work. They know it wont appeal to everyone and are not looking to be the next massively great thing. They want to be the next great thing to the player niche that this game will appeal to.

I understand where you are coming from. I have seen the things you have described. I also have heard the Dev's in this game talk about those very issues. IMO they dont want a giant gank-fest. They want a world where people have choices. Instead of linear paths that every single person playing the game does the same thing. This is their baby, without publishers pushing their hand one way or another. This is the game they wanted to always play themselves when they imagined a game.  The game isnt even released (about to enter closed beta) and the mob and pitch forks are out in mass numbers without seeing how the game play even works together or even venturing to their website to have a more than general clue of mechanics.

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Taclis

Amen to that! They even talked about how, when you kill all the carnivors of a certain forest the herbivore population are going to take overhand. I know they said that they weren't going to include that at launch, but just stating it means that they have put some thought into the mechanism, and if and when they include it, THAT will be the perfect mmorpg for me.

 

That sounds awesome as well. The whole idea of a developing, changing world is ace in my book. So many mmorpgs take the easy way out to make the world static and only governed by day and night cycles and respawn timers.

When the world and it's non-player population is dynamic you never know what is around the next corner. That will generate some disapointments; ("I swear you gusy! It was here yesterday!"), but also many "WTF!" moments and it gives incentives to also visit places where you have been before.

Most mmorpgs I played have a world devided strictly in zones tied to player level ranges with not much incentives to be in places outside your level range (a.k.a. the biggest part of the world), in MO, where you were merily picking flowers yesterday, a tribe of trolls might have moved in this morning. I really love that unpredictability :)

That, along with your previous post, sounds great.

I know a lot of people are worried about the pvp/looting, but overall the game seems really interesting, and I can't wait to try it.  The only other game I'm this interested in is Chronicles of Spellborn, which I'm waiting a few months to try.

How many mmo-failures does it take before sheeps quit going "OMGOMGOMG" over every piece of  hype they are fed?