---

Originally posted by tub0rg
yeah after i admitted i bot mine am not really gonna tell you my account details. im pretty sure ccp tolerates it but its not a risk worth taking.
what is meanigless about pvp without loss? there still is a winner and a looser, its still decided by the same "skill" as it was with a penelaty. if you want to call that skill anyway. the only reason (beside the economy) to have the penality is that you can stick it to your enemy. to give you the satisfaction that you have taken something from him. you didnt just win you destroyed him.
psychologically that of course says a lot about people who live for that in eve, and there a lot of that type.
 
eh tedious is not the opposite of meaningfull. yeah of course mining and ratting has meaning that dosent make them less tedious or straight braindead to execute.  look at all the pay to use botminers or even ratting makros because people cant stand to do it for hours and hours.  

---

Since you are avoiding to reveal us your EVE PVP experience, I assume you have never done any, therefore you only assume something you can't evaluate.

Case closed. Have fun.

---

Originally posted by Salvatoris
For some people, Losing is enough loss.  Losing a battle is all the motivation I need to try harder next time.  Losing all my ingame possessions when I die has the opposite affect that it apparently has on you.  It makes me want to play less.

---

Losing all your possesions is your fault, not the game mechanics. Whenver you lose something in EVE, it is your fault in 90% cases, stop blaming the game for your own faults.

Originally posted by Lordmonkus

Frankly I was too busy actually being helpful to some people around here rather than post useless shit like yourself. Oh well now that I know you are an admitted cheater and therefore a liar everything you say or have said has absolutely zero meaning.

/ignored

 

you do that a lot if you dont know what to say anymore, just shut in dont see dont hear anything dont you?

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Salvatoris
For some people, Losing is enough loss.  Losing a battle is all the motivation I need to try harder next time.  Losing all my ingame possessions when I die has the opposite affect that it apparently has on you.  It makes me want to play less.

---

When there is nothing to lose, there is no victory and with no victory, there is no achievement.
EVE is about achievements more than anything.

 

Losing all your possesions is your fault, not the game mechanics. Whenver you lose something in EVE, it is your fault in 90% cases, stop blaming the game for your own faults.

im not blaming anyone for anything.

but how is there no victory? obviously if you defeat someone he could get all his possesions back and you still would have won. it would kinda kill the economy but thats a diffrent story. so winning or even "skill" if you think of it as skill has nothing to do with the penality.

you said there would be no achievement with out it, why?

what is the achievement you get with penality that wouldnt be there without it?

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by Salvatoris
For some people, Losing is enough loss.  Losing a battle is all the motivation I need to try harder next time.  Losing all my ingame possessions when I die has the opposite affect that it apparently has on you.  It makes me want to play less.

---

When there is nothing to lose, there is no victory and with no victory, there is no achievement.
EVE is about achievements more than anything.

 

Losing all your possesions is your fault, not the game mechanics. Whenver you lose something in EVE, it is your fault in 90% cases, stop blaming the game for your own faults.

We just aren't going to agree on item loss.  The fact is, it's a matter of preference.  It's also a fact that about 90% of MMO gamers are playing games without item loss on death.  Saying there is no victory without item loss is just silly.  Most games we play, as a species, have winners and losers but no loss of possessions at the end.

I guess when you lose something in Eve it is your fault 100% of the time.  If you undock, it's your own fault when you die.  Beyond that point, your last statement is nonsense.  I read people post that thousands of ships are lost in battle every day in Eve.  You assertion is that 90% of those people were doing something wrong?  I tend to agree, but I think their crucial mistake was subscribing to Eve in the first place.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by Salvatoris
For some people, Losing is enough loss.  Losing a battle is all the motivation I need to try harder next time.  Losing all my ingame possessions when I die has the opposite affect that it apparently has on you.  It makes me want to play less.

---

When there is nothing to lose, there is no victory and with no victory, there is no achievement.
EVE is about achievements more than anything.

 

Losing all your possesions is your fault, not the game mechanics. Whenver you lose something in EVE, it is your fault in 90% cases, stop blaming the game for your own faults.

 

We just aren't going to agree on item loss.  The fact is, it's a matter of preference.  It's also a fact that about 90% of MMO gamers are playing games without item loss on death.  Saying there is no victory without item loss is just silly.  Most games we play, as a species, have winners and losers but no loss of possessions at the end.

I guess when you lose something in Eve it is your fault 100% of the time.  If you undock, it's your own fault when you die.  Beyond that point, your last statement is nonsense.  I read people post that thousands of ships are lost in battle every day in Eve.  You assertion is that 90% of those people were doing something wrong?  I tend to agree, but I think their crucial mistake was subscribing to Eve in the first place.

You are truly unreal man. You say its all about preference but you won't allow us to have ours.
 

if you undock in eve, you are agreeing to unconditional pvp. if i undock and get suicide ganked, its my own fault for undocking.

some people like that, some people dont. sally obviously hates it, and thats ok. now would you kindly go away?

---

Originally posted by Salvatoris
We just aren't going to agree on item loss.  The fact is, it's a matter of preference.  It's also a fact that about 90% of MMO gamers are playing games without item loss on death.  Saying there is no victory without item loss is just silly.  Most games we play, as a species, have winners and losers but no loss of possessions at the end.
I guess when you lose something in Eve it is your fault 100% of the time.  If you undock, it's your own fault when you die.  Beyond that point, your last statement is nonsense.  I read people post that thousands of ships are lost in battle every day in Eve.  You assertion is that 90% of those people were doing something wrong?  I tend to agree, but I think their crucial mistake was subscribing to Eve in the first place.

---

It's not about preference. I might have said it a bit better but it doesn't matter...

When you risk nothing, it is nothing more then momentarily entertainment. EVE offer you a chance to build something, to participita in something bigger and better and that lasts.
The loss makes the value of your effort.

If you join big alliance doing large scale warfare, yes, it was as much your choice to take almost certain loss as much is your decicion to turn all your ISK into assets and make something stupid to lose it.

It is not a fault to undock, it is a mistake not to be cautious and/or take wrong decision that will make you lose something.

And stop trolling already... :-P

You guys aren't going to bully me away from discussing the game simply by accusing me of trolling.  My posts here are on topic and civil.  I back up my opinions with examples and facts where possible... Do you even know what trolling is?  If you think it means having a differing opinion or posting something negative, you are incorrect.  I have never said you guys opinion of the game is wrong or in any way less valid than mine.  That attitude comes exclusively from the fanboy side of the argument. 

You are saying there is no meaning to games with no item loss.  You took it a step further by saying that it isn't just a matter of preference, but a fact.  Here, you are provably wrong.  Millions of people find plenty of meaning in games with no item loss.  Losing alone is plenty of motivation for a lot of people. 

Originally posted by Salvatoris

You guys aren't going to bully me away from discussing the game simply by accusing me of trolling.  My posts here are on topic and civil.  I back up my opinions with examples and facts where possible... Do you even know what trolling is?  If you think it means having a differing opinion or posting something negative, you are incorrect.  I have never said you guys opinion of the game is wrong or in any way less valid than mine.  That attitude comes exclusively from the fanboy side of the argument. 

You are saying there is no meaning to games with no item loss.  You took it a step further by saying that it isn't just a matter of preference, but a fact.  Here, you are provably wrong.  Millions of people find plenty of meaning in games with no item loss.  Losing alone is plenty of motivation for a lot of people. 

 

as most people say don't lose what you can't afford to lose.

I really don't get you people. Who cares about any of that? 

I play EvE. I have no problem with people who don't. If they don't like EvE, then they play somehing else. It really doesn't bother me that they like another system of play. So why does anyone else care?

And it works both ways. If you don't like EvE, stop posting in threads about EvE. I don't care that you don't like EvE, or think that it's too tedious, or that death is too harsh. I don't care if you play WoW, or EQ2, or any other game- if that's what you like, all the power to you.

But stop coming to EvE threads and starting flame wars. And people here need to stop taking the bait. We're taking valid threads of people that are asking hoenst questions and turning them into giant epeen competitions.

I'm not going to get into a slanging match about whether item loss is the better mechanic or not.  What I will say is that in my experience with games with no item loss and no experience loss on death in PvP is that it causes me to be less cautious about the fights I get into.  If all that happens on death is that I respawn somewhere else and lose a couple of minutes getting back into the fight I find the loss trivial and meaningless.  No point in fighting if there is nothing to fight for, to me.  The reason this is important to me in MMOs is that, on the whole, you're not on a level playing field when you're fighting someone.  Usually the person you're fighting will have better or worse gear than you, or be of a slightly higher or lowere level, or whatever.  If I lose, I can blame it on lesser in game equipment.  If I win, it's because my character is somehow stronger.  In my experience, personal skill counts for less than it does in, say, a game of chess or football.  Therefore, the winning or losing is not testing my personal skill but the artificial abilities of the other character/s.  Because of this, actually winning or losing is immaterial to me.  It might be mindless entertainment but it has no lasting appeal.

A game designed around a full-loot mechanic accomplishes a couple of things for me.  It makes me much more cautious about the fights I choose.  If there's a chance I'll lose my stuff I'll be more choosy about when and where I pick a fight.  It makes the battle more meaningful and therefore each combat stays fresh and exciting.  It also enables the projection of force and is an avenue for demoralisation of the enemy.  If the enemy is constantly getting slaughtered and losing expensive stuff, they're going to be more likely to retreat and try and find someone else to bother.  This adds a tactical element that doesn't exist without item loss.  Finally, item destruction (as opposed to things simply changing hands) means there will always be a need to replace things, which encourages manufacturing and keep an economy going.

For me, item loss and item destruction mechanics add to the longevity of an MMO and keeps me interested far longer than MMOs where there is no item loss.  I'm not a hoarder, I don't care if I get all the most expensive items in the game, once I've got to top level I'll stop playing because I'll get bored.  PvP mechanics in games like this don't keep me interested because I'm not fighting for anything.  I need the open-PvP, item-loss mechanic to keep me interested in playing long after the inital excitement of new stuff has worn off.

Disclaimer:  This is not a jab at MMOs that are , or gamers who enjoy, loot-based, permanent item type games, simply an explanation of why those games are lacking for me, personally.  Thank you.

Nice post Jacinta.

I'm always amazed at the adrenaline you feel in eve pvp.. especially when you are flying an expensive fit or capital ship that may represent weeks or months worth of work in the game.

When you lose in a fight like that it hurts BAD.  When you win in a fight like that you know you've hurt the other player badly.

Pvp I've tried in other games haas ended up with "meh, good fght, whaterver" for me. After a big fight in eve typically my heart rate is elevated and my hands are shaking.. kinda like you feel right after a semi narrowly avoids turning you into pulp on the interstate.  It is intense.

Originally posted by Jacinta

I'm not going to get into a slanging match about whether item loss is the better mechanic or not.  What I will say is that in my experience with games with no item loss and no experience loss on death in PvP is that it causes me to be less cautious about the fights I get into.  If all that happens on death is that I respawn somewhere else and lose a couple of minutes getting back into the fight I find the loss trivial and meaningless.  No point in fighting if there is nothing to fight for, to me.  The reason this is important to me in MMOs is that, on the whole, you're not on a level playing field when you're fighting someone.  Usually the person you're fighting will have better or worse gear than you, or be of a slightly higher or lowere level, or whatever.  If I lose, I can blame it on lesser in game equipment.  If I win, it's because my character is somehow stronger.  In my experience, personal skill counts for less than it does in, say, a game of chess or football.  Therefore, the winning or losing is not testing my personal skill but the artificial abilities of the other character/s.  Because of this, actually winning or losing is immaterial to me.  It might be mindless entertainment but it has no lasting appeal.

A game designed around a full-loot mechanic accomplishes a couple of things for me.  It makes me much more cautious about the fights I choose.  If there's a chance I'll lose my stuff I'll be more choosy about when and where I pick a fight.  It makes the battle more meaningful and therefore each combat stays fresh and exciting.  It also enables the projection of force and is an avenue for demoralisation of the enemy.  If the enemy is constantly getting slaughtered and losing expensive stuff, they're going to be more likely to retreat and try and find someone else to bother.  This adds a tactical element that doesn't exist without item loss.  Finally, item destruction (as opposed to things simply changing hands) means there will always be a need to replace things, which encourages manufacturing and keep an economy going.

For me, item loss and item destruction mechanics add to the longevity of an MMO and keeps me interested far longer than MMOs where there is no item loss.  I'm not a hoarder, I don't care if I get all the most expensive items in the game, once I've got to top level I'll stop playing because I'll get bored.  PvP mechanics in games like this don't keep me interested because I'm not fighting for anything.  I need the open-PvP, item-loss mechanic to keep me interested in playing long after the inital excitement of new stuff has worn off.

Disclaimer:  This is not a jab at MMOs that are , or gamers who enjoy, loot-based, permanent item type games, simply an explanation of why those games are lacking for me, personally.  Thank you.

 

ah finally someone says something with substance.

i can understand some of you points, and of course the need for the economy is without question.

i would not say that an enemy who gets killed all the time wont retreat though. i have often watch people even in wow log out after they got beaten 3 times, of course there are  places like alterac valley where people would be killed dozents of times and dont care because it wasent really about staying alive for many.  i think it boilds down to, the more personal and " fair" the fight was people will give up faster, even without loosing anything of value.

one question i have is, if the game itself wouldnt intrest you anymore without a dying penality and your not playing it to spend time with your friends, why play it at all?

there are three reasons for me to play a game, first would be because the game itself is fun to play. two is because the game as an intresting story and there are close to none in that department, the only one i can really think of is the Metal gear solid series. and third would be to spend time with friends.

Originally posted by Enkindu

Nice post Jacinta.

I'm always amazed at the adrenaline you feel in eve pvp.. especially when you are flying an expensive fit or capital ship that may represent weeks or months worth of work in the game.

When you lose in a fight like that it hurts BAD.  When you win in a fight like that you know you've hurt the other player badly.

Pvp I've tried in other games haas ended up with "meh, good fght, whaterver" for me. After a big fight in eve typically my heart rate is elevated and my hands are shaking.. kinda like you feel right after a semi narrowly avoids turning you into pulp on the interstate.  It is intense.

the last time where i had an adrenaline rush like that was close to ten years ago when i was playing cs tournaments.

today there is vitually no game that will get me that excited anymore. i ve preatty much outgrown it and even though i wouldnt say i cant be fun, in my experience it makes you play worse.

The hurting part am sorry to say but thats just grieving.

so if you know you hurt the other player and that hes pissed you feel you have achieved more? you feel better then if he had not lost something and wasnt pissed? so you feel better because someone else feels worse?

thats fucked up dude. and it has nothing to do with pvp or fairplay or skill thats just griefing to feel better about yourself because you took something from someone.

Originally posted by tub0rg

Originally posted by Enkindu

Nice post Jacinta.

I'm always amazed at the adrenaline you feel in eve pvp.. especially when you are flying an expensive fit or capital ship that may represent weeks or months worth of work in the game.

When you lose in a fight like that it hurts BAD.  When you win in a fight like that you know you've hurt the other player badly.

Pvp I've tried in other games haas ended up with "meh, good fght, whaterver" for me. After a big fight in eve typically my heart rate is elevated and my hands are shaking.. kinda like you feel right after a semi narrowly avoids turning you into pulp on the interstate.  It is intense.

 

the last time where i had an adrenaline rush like that was close to ten years ago when i was playing cs tournaments.

today there is vitually no game that will get me that excited anymore. i ve preatty much outgrown it and even though i wouldnt say i cant be fun, in my experience it makes you play worse.

The hurting part am sorry to say but thats just grieving.

so if you know you hurt the other player and that hes pissed you feel you have achieved more? you feel better then if he had not lost something and wasnt pissed? so you feel better because someone else feels worse?

thats fucked up dude. and it has nothing to do with pvp or fairplay or skill thats just griefing to feel better about yourself because you took something from someone.

 

 

What he said ^^  
 

I have never understood that way of thinking either Tuborg.

Originally posted by Lazarus71

Originally posted by tub0rg

Originally posted by Enkindu

Nice post Jacinta.

I'm always amazed at the adrenaline you feel in eve pvp.. especially when you are flying an expensive fit or capital ship that may represent weeks or months worth of work in the game.

When you lose in a fight like that it hurts BAD.  When you win in a fight like that you know you've hurt the other player badly.

Pvp I've tried in other games haas ended up with "meh, good fght, whaterver" for me. After a big fight in eve typically my heart rate is elevated and my hands are shaking.. kinda like you feel right after a semi narrowly avoids turning you into pulp on the interstate.  It is intense.

 

the last time where i had an adrenaline rush like that was close to ten years ago when i was playing cs tournaments.

today there is vitually no game that will get me that excited anymore. i ve preatty much outgrown it and even though i wouldnt say i cant be fun, in my experience it makes you play worse.

The hurting part am sorry to say but thats just grieving.

so if you know you hurt the other player and that hes pissed you feel you have achieved more? you feel better then if he had not lost something and wasnt pissed? so you feel better because someone else feels worse?

thats fucked up dude. and it has nothing to do with pvp or fairplay or skill thats just griefing to feel better about yourself because you took something from someone.

 

 

What he said ^^  
 

I have never understood that way of thinking either Tuborg.

The problem with your way of thinking is that in a game that is focused centrally around PVP, competing against your fellow pilots either by ship to ship violence, or dominating the market etc are all within the confines of the game. When you blow someone's expensive ship up, the satisfaction you gain is derived from the fact that you have hurt them financially. The same can be said of when you get blown up, you have lost some assets in the form of your ship+fittings+cargo, which means the person who popped you has gained an advantage.

Most people who have played other MMO's have the tendency to place too much emotional attachments to their ships. What you need to realise is that ships are merely a tool or toy to play with, and they get broken occasionally. Associating an internet spaceship PVP game with real life personalities just shows that you are unable to separate reality from a game. If you feel that someone who blows up your ship is 'griefing' you, or that he is a bad person who is attacking you as opposed to merely shooting a ship you're flying, then perhaps EVE isn't the game for you. This isn't an insult, it's just that a lot of people are unable to 'get' EVE, and take it for what it is. Instead they have an idea of what it SHOULD be, and bring those ideas and attitude to the game when they play it, and therefore take it as a personal insult when the rest of the game doesn't conform to their preconceived ideas. If EVE isn't your type of game, it's OK. There are plenty of other games out there where getting killed has no meaningful losses. Some people prefer one type of game, other people prefer the other. It shows a distinct lack of maturity to judge people based on what their prefered style of gaming is.

 Tbh when I was a pirate I did not seek to piss off people by bragging and such after killing them,I always left with their loot without a word if they didnt say anything,ofc I would say "good fight" when there was one,even if I was the one who lost.

 But I have gotten tons of "nerd-rage messages" such as (and not limited too):

-ninja killed haulers at gates in thorax (yes I usualy got out with 30% armor left):"Dickhole,mutherfuck,I will kill u bitch,u wait,I worked hard time for that ,bitch,just stay here"

-killed a carebear trying to solo pvp in a battleship in low sec: "gay-ass ,u will not be playing EVE from now on"

 Like I said,I do not instigate them in any way ,well apart from blowing them up ,but I always find the messages very amusing,because soo many people take games too seriously,usualy it's the carebears who throw drama queen tantrums,I try to stop them before I realy smack them down (when they start throwing insults),and they always end up being laughed at by local if they persist,but I try to calm them down with the simple most know phrase in EVE: DO NOT "FUCKING" (personal edit),FLY WHAT YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO REPLACE.

 Ive actualy smacked some people for 30-60 minutes,cause they just wouldnt stop,it's probably because I never revert to insults and swear words and usualy use sarcasm and such,wich probably pisses them off even more when every phrase they utter containts 3/4 insults.

 It's just a game,get over it,ive lost tons of ships and soo have others wich we worked very hard for (i do NOT sell chars,or use GTCs for isk etc,i earn it legally),never once have I insulted anyone who popped my ship ,and when they tryed to smack id just agree with them and we would usualy end up laughting togheter,no point in being an arse if someone is being an arse to you when its your fault to begin with.

P.S No longer a pirate!

Originally posted by LZBong

Originally posted by Lazarus71

Originally posted by tub0rg

Originally posted by Enkindu

Nice post Jacinta.

I'm always amazed at the adrenaline you feel in eve pvp.. especially when you are flying an expensive fit or capital ship that may represent weeks or months worth of work in the game.

When you lose in a fight like that it hurts BAD.  When you win in a fight like that you know you've hurt the other player badly.

Pvp I've tried in other games haas ended up with "meh, good fght, whaterver" for me. After a big fight in eve typically my heart rate is elevated and my hands are shaking.. kinda like you feel right after a semi narrowly avoids turning you into pulp on the interstate.  It is intense.

 

the last time where i had an adrenaline rush like that was close to ten years ago when i was playing cs tournaments.

today there is vitually no game that will get me that excited anymore. i ve preatty much outgrown it and even though i wouldnt say i cant be fun, in my experience it makes you play worse.

The hurting part am sorry to say but thats just grieving.

so if you know you hurt the other player and that hes pissed you feel you have achieved more? you feel better then if he had not lost something and wasnt pissed? so you feel better because someone else feels worse?

thats fucked up dude. and it has nothing to do with pvp or fairplay or skill thats just griefing to feel better about yourself because you took something from someone.

 

 

What he said ^^  
 

I have never understood that way of thinking either Tuborg.

 

The problem with your way of thinking is that in a game that is focused centrally around PVP, competing against your fellow pilots either by ship to ship violence, or dominating the market etc are all within the confines of the game. When you blow someone's expensive ship up, the satisfaction you gain is derived from the fact that you have hurt them financially. The same can be said of when you get blown up, you have lost some assets in the form of your ship+fittings+cargo, which means the person who popped you has gained an advantage.

Most people who have played other MMO's have the tendency to place too much emotional attachments to their ships. What you need to realise is that ships are merely a tool or toy to play with, and they get broken occasionally. Associating an internet spaceship PVP game with real life personalities just shows that you are unable to separate reality from a game. If you feel that someone who blows up your ship is 'griefing' you, or that he is a bad person who is attacking you as opposed to merely shooting a ship you're flying, then perhaps EVE isn't the game for you. This isn't an insult, it's just that a lot of people are unable to 'get' EVE, and take it for what it is. Instead they have an idea of what it SHOULD be, and bring those ideas and attitude to the game when they play it, and therefore take it as a personal insult when the rest of the game doesn't conform to their preconceived ideas. If EVE isn't your type of game, it's OK. There are plenty of other games out there where getting killed has no meaningful losses. Some people prefer one type of game, other people prefer the other. It shows a distinct lack of maturity to judge people based on what their prefered style of gaming is.

you didnt get the point.

of course its part of the game for many reasons. and i agree you shouldnt take is seriosly.

but that other guy said it clear as day that the fact that if he lost he was hurting and if he won that the other guy was hurting was important to him.

that is fucked up, and the mechanic eve works by attrackts that kind of player just by the way it works. i dont mean to say thats the reason why eve works that way i dont think that thats the case. but lets face it there are tons of people who a raised to the point of indoctrination that they have to compete and win to be "better" then others.

thats the kind of eve player thats fucked up, not all eve players are not even the majority i think.

and actually there is nothing imature about !analyzing! people by how the play games and what games they play its actually done in psychology all the time.

Originally posted by LZBong

Originally posted by Lazarus71

Originally posted by tub0rg

Originally posted by Enkindu

Nice post Jacinta.

I'm always amazed at the adrenaline you feel in eve pvp.. especially when you are flying an expensive fit or capital ship that may represent weeks or months worth of work in the game.

When you lose in a fight like that it hurts BAD.  When you win in a fight like that you know you've hurt the other player badly.

Pvp I've tried in other games haas ended up with "meh, good fght, whaterver" for me. After a big fight in eve typically my heart rate is elevated and my hands are shaking.. kinda like you feel right after a semi narrowly avoids turning you into pulp on the interstate.  It is intense.

 

the last time where i had an adrenaline rush like that was close to ten years ago when i was playing cs tournaments.

today there is vitually no game that will get me that excited anymore. i ve preatty much outgrown it and even though i wouldnt say i cant be fun, in my experience it makes you play worse.

The hurting part am sorry to say but thats just grieving.

so if you know you hurt the other player and that hes pissed you feel you have achieved more? you feel better then if he had not lost something and wasnt pissed? so you feel better because someone else feels worse?

thats fucked up dude. and it has nothing to do with pvp or fairplay or skill thats just griefing to feel better about yourself because you took something from someone.

 

 

What he said ^^  
 

I have never understood that way of thinking either Tuborg.

 

The problem with your way of thinking is that in a game that is focused centrally around PVP, competing against your fellow pilots either by ship to ship violence, or dominating the market etc are all within the confines of the game. When you blow someone's expensive ship up, the satisfaction you gain is derived from the fact that you have hurt them financially. The same can be said of when you get blown up, you have lost some assets in the form of your ship+fittings+cargo, which means the person who popped you has gained an advantage.

Most people who have played other MMO's have the tendency to place too much emotional attachments to their ships. What you need to realise is that ships are merely a tool or toy to play with, and they get broken occasionally. Associating an internet spaceship PVP game with real life personalities just shows that you are unable to separate reality from a game. If you feel that someone who blows up your ship is 'griefing' you, or that he is a bad person who is attacking you as opposed to merely shooting a ship you're flying, then perhaps EVE isn't the game for you. This isn't an insult, it's just that a lot of people are unable to 'get' EVE, and take it for what it is. Instead they have an idea of what it SHOULD be, and bring those ideas and attitude to the game when they play it, and therefore take it as a personal insult when the rest of the game doesn't conform to their preconceived ideas. If EVE isn't your type of game, it's OK. There are plenty of other games out there where getting killed has no meaningful losses. Some people prefer one type of game, other people prefer the other. It shows a distinct lack of maturity to judge people based on what their prefered style of gaming is.

Was that long response aimed at me or Tuborg. I made a one line statement that I didn't understand the mentality of people who think the way he mentioned. In no way was I implying all players are like this.

As to the part of your response I highlighted in red. I think you are the one over thinking what was said not I or Tuborg. This is not me trying to argue with you becuase I actually agree with everything else you said.