I want to make one thing clear from the start.  I don't play the game and I never will.  Ever. 

I've seen and heard enough about the game to know I won't enjoy it.  To each their own.  I played Warhammer (twice) and didn't enjoy it.  My brother-in-law thinks Warhammer Online is the second coming.  His taste in games, his decision.  There are many others playing it just like him.

I have no idea why there is such venom for the Darkfall and the people who play it.  There's seems to be this bizarre theory that the people actually playing the game and claiming to enjoy it are either a) lying  b) brainwashed c) incapable of identifying what is enjoyable to themselves or d) whatever other stupid idea you can think of as to why they aren't really having fun when they think they are.

Did it ever occur to you that the Darkfall community doesn't place value on the same features and playstyles that you (or myself) do?  Did you ever consider that perhaps what is important to the Darkfall crowd has nothing to do with a slick UI, "meaningful" quests,  a static combat system (ie. you stand in place and smack buttons), cutting edge graphics, lore or a riskless PvP system? 

What it does offer is a place for those who prefer the gritty, wide open, no (or few) holds barred struggle to not just survive, but conquer and prosper.  The ability to shape the world through politics, intrigue and strength of arms without the boundaries imposed by other games are of greater value than the more polished quest parks and controlled conflicts housed in zones and instances.  And that is probably only some of the reasons why Darkfall online players embrace what many consider a soulless shell of a game.

So, you're perfectly free to say whatever you want about Darkfall and how delusional the player base is.  Just remember, they think the same thing about you (and me).  And with good reason.

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

I want to make one thing clear from the start.  I don't play the game and I never will.  Ever. 

I've seen and heard enough about the game to know I won't enjoy it.  To each their own.  I played Warhammer (twice) and didn't enjoy it.  My brother-in-law thinks Warhammer Online is the second coming.  His taste in games, his decision.  There are many others playing it just like him.

I have no idea why there is such venom for the Darkfall and the people who play it.  There's seems to be this bizarre theory that the people actually playing the game and claiming to enjoy it are either a) lying  b) brainwashed c) incapable of identifying what is enjoyable to themselves or d) whatever other stupid idea you can think of as to why they aren't really having fun when they think they are.

Did it ever occur to you that the Darkfall community doesn't place value on the same features and playstyles that you (or myself) do?  Did you ever consider that perhaps what is important to the Darkfall crowd has nothing to do with a slick UI, "meaningful" quests,  a static combat system (ie. you stand in place and smack buttons), cutting edge graphics, lore or a riskless PvP system? 

What it does offer is a place for those who prefer the gritty, wide open, no (or few) holds barred struggle to not just survive, but conquer and prosper.  The ability to shape the world through politics, intrigue and strength of arms without the boundaries imposed by other games are of greater value than the more polished quest parks and controlled conflicts housed in zones and instances.  And that is probably only some of the reasons why Darkfall online players embrace what many consider a soulless shell of a game.

So, you're perfectly free to say whatever you want about Darkfall and how delusional the player base is.  Just remember, they think the same thing about you (and me).  And with good reason.

I care because I supported and defended Darkfall and I was wrong to do so.  I feel let down by another developer that lied about their feature list and then released an unfinished game.  I also think that we as MMO players need to stop supporting companies that release non finished games.   That is why I care.

"Non finished" is the same thing that's been said of every MMORPG that's ever been released.  And yet you seem to imply you bought the game and played it without doing more to understand what you were purchasing before you took the dive. 

If you bought the game and didn't do your homework, you are the problem. 

Just because you don't consider it a value, doesn't mean it has no value to the others who play it and enjoy it.

Troll post.

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

"Non finished" is the same thing that's been said of every MMORPG that's ever been released.  And yet you seem to imply you bought the game and played it without doing more to understand what you were purchasing before you took the dive. 

If you bought the game and didn't do your homework, you are the problem. 

Just because you don't consider it a value, doesn't mean it has no value to the others who play it and enjoy it.

No I did not buy the game I was in beta, I should have not been released, it is not finished.

Thats fine if people are enjoying it, still does not mean I do not have the right to say why I dislike the game.  Last I check I lived in a free country.

Again I care because we are allowing these companies to release unfinished games that do not have the "feature list" complete.  That is what I mean when I say unfinished.  The feature list that the developer released is not fully in game at release.

All mmos need time to get better yes, but that doesnt mean you release it broken and try to fix it as you go. Developers need to learn that, and they never will as long as consumers keep buying into the "oh they can fix it later" mentality.

Consider an mmo like a used car you are buying.

Most are gona need a little work sure, not perfect but it can be fixxed.

Darkfall however was a used car that came with no wheels, or windshield, or doors. Sure it runs, but its not goin anywhere.

I think the only reason the trolls hate this game so much is because they hated the fanbois for the last few years. The fanbois were rabid, and in all honesty, quite obnoxious about how great DF was going to be. I admit I joined in on the trolling because the fanbois were so ridiculous and it looked like the game was a hoax. Once it showed it wasn't a hoax, I stopped the trolling because there was no need. Some have, for some odd reason, never stopped the trolling.

The fanbois were just over zealous about a game they were really looking forward too. The trolls simply troll to troll. At this point, I find the trolls to be 100x more obnoxious than the fanbois ever were. It's old, annoying, and these people need to get a life.

This coming from someone who has never, and will never, play Darkfall.

Some of us are just assholes.

With that said,

                  Welcome to the Internet.

I do not hate the game itself. There are people who mind their business and play the game and enjoy it. I have no problem with this. I would take a gamble on saying most of the "trolls" agree with this. The trolls became trolls along time before the game went into paid alpha testing, simply by stating the  business practice flaws of AV.

So troll= a person with common sense.

I care because this MMO industry is my entertainment of choice, and  when people line up to play a game that is nowhere near complete, it ruins the industry. This sends out a clear message that we as consumers give any company a pass and find unfinishesed, falsely advertised, rehashed WoW and just plain crap games acceptable. Eventually what happens is it becomes the industry standard. Industry standard is now crap. This is evident in the home building industry just as an example.

A superintendent carries 10-15 houses under construction. Thats 1 man. each house being built at one time is complete in 60 days or less.  There is no way that 1 super can catch all the problems and construction defects caused by sub  contractors or whatever other situation arieses.There are massive problems with the house 9-10 times when the home owners move in.

So why do we care? its more the company AV, in this case but as I said, it says yeah we as consumers will buy crap, and we will sub to it. so eventually what will be the bar for success? Mark jakobs said 500K subs they maybe have 300K.. as the indusrry standard gets lower, so wil the quality, and eventually it will get to a point where 500 subs is a success for an mmo.

As for dealing with fans, when you state an opinion based on fact, consumerim, business knowledge, and real world experience, it is met by venom and hatred and childishness and so it turns into a flame war in which people on both sides end up sounding silly.

The fans have been invested in the game for years prior to release, so they are hoping for a payoff of thier devotion. they realize that deffending the game and the lies of Tasos for YEARS is here in writing, so they feel they can't go back on their word. It's understandable, however if there were adults among them, they would realize its ok to admit they were wrong, and be accountable for what they said based on what their hopes were for a game that did not deliver what was promised. Back in 2003. I thought darkfall was going to be a great game, by 2005, I was thinking vaporware. I kind of forgot about it untill sometime in 2007.

There are many of my fellow trolls who are articulate in their points and post well thought out messages and try to be respectful, and I think the very vast majority if not all, do not want the game to fail. I am probably an outsider in this, as I DO want the game to fail, because it will send a message along with Tabula Rassa, and possibly AOC, that No, we will not accept crap and unfinished, and false advertising.

The consumers have the power with their dollar, and that is why we care.

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

"Non finished" is the same thing that's been said of every MMORPG that's ever been released.  And yet you seem to imply you bought the game and played it without doing more to understand what you were purchasing before you took the dive. 

If you bought the game and didn't do your homework, you are the problem. 

Just because you don't consider it a value, doesn't mean it has no value to the others who play it and enjoy it.

Hey look at you coming to a big boy realization. Fanbots are the problem! People running around holding a piece of shit and claiming its pure gold are sure to get flak  that should answer your question.

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

I want to make one thing clear from the start.  I don't play the game and I never will.  Ever. 

I've seen and heard enough about the game to know I won't enjoy it.  To each their own.  I played Warhammer (twice) and didn't enjoy it.  My brother-in-law thinks Warhammer Online is the second coming.  His taste in games, his decision.  There are many others playing it just like him.

I have no idea why there is such venom for the Darkfall and the people who play it.  There's seems to be this bizarre theory that the people actually playing the game and claiming to enjoy it are either a) lying  b) brainwashed c) incapable of identifying what is enjoyable to themselves or d) whatever other stupid idea you can think of as to why they aren't really having fun when they think they are.

Did it ever occur to you that the Darkfall community doesn't place value on the same features and playstyles that you (or myself) do?  Did you ever consider that perhaps what is important to the Darkfall crowd has nothing to do with a slick UI, "meaningful" quests,  a static combat system (ie. you stand in place and smack buttons), cutting edge graphics, lore or a riskless PvP system? 

What it does offer is a place for those who prefer the gritty, wide open, no (or few) holds barred struggle to not just survive, but conquer and prosper.  The ability to shape the world through politics, intrigue and strength of arms without the boundaries imposed by other games are of greater value than the more polished quest parks and controlled conflicts housed in zones and instances.  And that is probably only some of the reasons why Darkfall online players embrace what many consider a soulless shell of a game.

So, you're perfectly free to say whatever you want about Darkfall and how delusional the player base is.  Just remember, they think the same thing about you (and me).  And with good reason.

As the Top man said Let the GAME speak for it SELF..Well after 8 + years of Tasos lying and waiting..Darkfall is going to get what it allways wanted ..2/10

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

I don't play the game and I never will.  Ever. 

Well then, troll. Why do you care?

Originally posted by Carl132p

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

"Non finished" is the same thing that's been said of every MMORPG that's ever been released.  And yet you seem to imply you bought the game and played it without doing more to understand what you were purchasing before you took the dive. 

If you bought the game and didn't do your homework, you are the problem. 

Just because you don't consider it a value, doesn't mean it has no value to the others who play it and enjoy it.

 

Hey look at you coming to a big boy realization. Fanbots are the problem! People running around holding a piece of shit and claiming its pure gold are sure to get flak  that should answer your question.

Originally posted by Carl132p

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

"Non finished" is the same thing that's been said of every MMORPG that's ever been released.  And yet you seem to imply you bought the game and played it without doing more to understand what you were purchasing before you took the dive. 

If you bought the game and didn't do your homework, you are the problem. 

Just because you don't consider it a value, doesn't mean it has no value to the others who play it and enjoy it.

 

Hey look at you coming to a big boy realization. Fanbots are the problem! People running around holding a piece of shit and claiming its pure gold are sure to get flak  that should answer your question.

How about those those who did their homework and bought the game fully informed of what they were getting into and enjoy it?  Is the game still shit?  If so, prove it.

I know I wouldn't enjoy the game.  It has no appeal to me.  Does that mean it is a piece of garbage? 

Originally posted by Zorvan01

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

I don't play the game and I never will.  Ever. 

 

Well then, troll. Why do you care?

Because I think it's important that people be allowed to enjoy the games they like to play without people telling them they are wrong or stupid to do so.

Is that a valid reason?

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

Originally posted by Zorvan01

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

I don't play the game and I never will.  Ever. 

 

Well then, troll. Why do you care?

 

Because I think it's important that people be allowed to enjoy the games they like to play without people telling them they are wrong or stupid to do so.

Is that a valid reason?

I heard Darkfall has an official cesspool for them to swim in. We don't  force them to hang around here.

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

Originally posted by Carl132p

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

"Non finished" is the same thing that's been said of every MMORPG that's ever been released.  And yet you seem to imply you bought the game and played it without doing more to understand what you were purchasing before you took the dive. 

If you bought the game and didn't do your homework, you are the problem. 

Just because you don't consider it a value, doesn't mean it has no value to the others who play it and enjoy it.

 

Hey look at you coming to a big boy realization. Fanbots are the problem! People running around holding a piece of shit and claiming its pure gold are sure to get flak  that should answer your question.

  Its enjoyed because its the only recent thing that does what it does, Everything about it is executed poorly. The combat is really bad but because its the only mmo that does it the way it does it  some people want to play it.

How about those those who did their homework and bought the game fully informed of what they were getting into and enjoy it?  Is the game still shit?  If so, prove it.

I know I wouldn't enjoy the game.  It has no appeal to me.  Does that mean it is a piece of garbage? 

Well a lot of people have big heads, so they think whatever they say is factual.

So when they don't like  a game, they will only show the negatives about it and leave out the positives, like the people who love the game. I try to show the positives and negatives of a game.

It's called ammunition for all those who looked forward to this title and followed it very closely and when they  played it, it failed to what was promised. Darkfall was a broken game to begin with and failed to meet what was promised, constant delays and broken game mechanics haunted this game for 3 months. Yeah some people like what it is but a lot also dislike what Darkfall is and think it rightly desrves what it got.

Originally posted by oddjobs74

I do not hate the game itself. There are people who mind their business and play the game and enjoy it. I have no problem with this. I would take a gamble on saying most of the "trolls" agree with this. The trolls became trolls along time before the game went into paid alpha testing, simply by stating the  business practice flaws of AV.

So troll= a person with common sense.

I care because this MMO industry is my entertainment of choice, and  when people line up to play a game that is nowhere near complete, it ruins the industry. This sends out a clear message that we as consumers give any company a pass and find unfinishesed, falsely advertised, rehashed WoW and just plain crap games acceptable. Eventually what happens is it becomes the industry standard. Industry standard is now crap. This is evident in the home building industry just as an example.

A superintendent carries 10-15 houses under construction. Thats 1 man. each house being built at one time is complete in 60 days or less.  There is no way that 1 super can catch all the problems and construction defects caused by sub  contractors or whatever other situation arieses.There are massive problems with the house 9-10 times when the home owners move in.

So why do we care? its more the company AV, in this case but as I said, it says yeah we as consumers will buy crap, and we will sub to it. so eventually what will be the bar for success? Mark jakobs said 500K subs they maybe have 300K.. as the indusrry standard gets lower, so wil the quality, and eventually it will get to a point where 500 subs is a success for an mmo.

As for dealing with fans, when you state an opinion based on fact, consumerim, business knowledge, and real world experience, it is met by venom and hatred and childishness and so it turns into a flame war in which people on both sides end up sounding silly.

The fans have been invested in the game for years prior to release, so they are hoping for a payoff of thier devotion. they realize that deffending the game and the lies of Tasos for YEARS is here in writing, so they feel they can't go back on their word. It's understandable, however if there were adults among them, they would realize its ok to admit they were wrong, and be accountable for what they said based on what their hopes were for a game that did not deliver what was promised. Back in 2003. I thought darkfall was going to be a great game, by 2005, I was thinking vaporware. I kind of forgot about it untill sometime in 2007.

There are many of my fellow trolls who are articulate in their points and post well thought out messages and try to be respectful, and I think the very vast majority if not all, do not want the game to fail. I am probably an outsider in this, as I DO want the game to fail, because it will send a message along with Tabula Rassa, and possibly AOC, that No, we will not accept crap and unfinished, and false advertising.

The consumers have the power with their dollar, and that is why we care.

 

 

This other then wanting it to fail.  I do not want any MMO to fail.