Originally posted by Routver

You can stand up for your company/work without resorting to insults.

 

If in real life, every time you get a bad repercussion from your work, if you cry out loud "you disliked it because you freaking suck", would you expect to be taken seriously ever again? It's exactly what the CEO of Aventurine is doing, calling it a "fraud" and labeling it a "scandal" when he's the only one inflating the review and making all efforts to put it on the highlights, of course other sites are reporting it, but he must evaluate what he's saying when he's representing a whole company. "You reap what you sow" is how they call it.

My advice would be to keep a low profile about the review, ignoring it, so what, he rated it 2/10, if you have more upcoming reviews, and your product is great, what's bothering you? Creating all that fuss around EG just served to increase the amount of people browsing the gaming site, the Senior Editor must be loving Tasos and Ed for giving his website free advertising to a whole community.

 

Tasos wanted to discuss the review, but why not argue with facts around your game? Trying to discredit the reviewer sounds really unprofessional. Take it like a man. Or don't give accounts for reviews.

You guys are rediculous.  You are honestly calling Tasos out for calling BS on an article that clearly had no time or effort put into it?  You guys may not, but there are potentially a lot of people that could have their decision to play this game altered by this article.  Yes, yes most of you hate the game (from second hand knowledge having never played the game yourself) and applaud any article that comes out that mirrors your views towards the game.  Nevermind that the article was unethical and poorly put together, let's blame Tasos!  He should let publications that unfairly criticize his company and game just go out unchallenged.  (I say unfairly criticize because the reviewer obviously put no time into his article)  I've seen people sue for less in courts of law for slander.

Originally posted by PkL728

You guys are rediculous.  You are honestly calling Tasos out for calling BS on an article that clearly had no time or effort put into it?  

The reviewer's major issues with the game were spot on and most of us ex-players agree with them.  Sure he ripped the game a new one, but that doesn't change the fact that he was right and a lot of us agree with him.

You guys may not, but there are potentially a lot of people that could have their decision to play this game altered by this article.  

It's a review, it's supposed to help people that share Ed's opinion make a decision about the games he's playing.  That's what reviews are for.

Yes, yes most of you hate the game (from second hand knowledge having never played the game yourself) and applaud any article that comes out that mirrors your views towards the game.  

I have played the game, so have a lot of others on here, and a lot of us agree with Ed's analysis of Darkfall.  Like I said, he was pretty harsh, but he was still right about the major flaws the game has.

Nevermind that the article was unethical and poorly put together, let's blame Tasos!  

How was it unethical?  Reviews are the writers opinion of a game.

He should let publications that unfairly criticize his company and game just go out unchallenged.  (I say unfairly criticize because the reviewer obviously put no time into his article)  

No he shouldn't let them go unchallenged.  PR is one of the most important things to most companies and needs to always be handled with a delicate touch.  What all of us are saying is that he could have responded like a businessman instead of an immature self-righteous brat.

What he should have done was discussed this privately with EG's editor or asked for a re-review in a few months when they have time to fix the faults that were covered in the review. 

He should have disputed the review itself instead of attacking Ed.  If Tasos really doesn't think the review was accurate he should have identified and rebuted the bulletpoints in the review that were not true.

He should have never posted in-game chat logs or revealed how much time Ed spent in-game (according to Tasos' warped view of reality anyways).  He should have never called Ed a fraud (this actually is slander, unlike Ed's review) and fired personal attacks at the person doing the review.   

I've seen people sue for less in courts of law for slander.

While this may be true, a judge would never let a case against Ed go to court unless he was a complete moron (I've seen a few) and if somehow Ed lost it would be easy to get the ruling overturned because Tasos does NOT have a case against Ed.  Many, many of us on these forums agree with his review.

Having said that.  Tasos actually DID slander Ed, although if Ed sued Aventurine/Tasos I don't see that going to court either unless he had lost his job because of Tasos' claims of fraud.

It's the way Tasos stood up for his game that's the problem.   If, indeed, the EG review is completely offbase, he should have given it the energy it deserved: None.

He could have just leaned back in his chair at the AV offices and said to his co-workers: "You know what a critic is?  It's someone who knows how to get there, but doesn't know how to drive!"

And they all could have had a good laugh.

Originally posted by Papadam

Does Steven Segal and his fans cry when his movies get bad reviews?

Wait, you mean to say Steven Segal actually have fans?????

Ok, on to Tasos. There is a professional way to handle these issues and he didnt. Not even close. He attacked the writher of the review multiple times. He basiclly called EG trash in my eyes. He acted like a child being smacked on the hand. It is sad honestly. Tasos again makes himself and AV look like fools, though that truly isnt that hard to do

As a representative of AV, Tasos Flambouras fails at being a professional of the industry. No matter how much criticism he has received about this lack of professionalism, he has not improved.

Originally posted by Mordrid

Originally posted by Papadam

Does Steven Segal and his fans cry when his movies get bad reviews?

 

Wait, you mean to say Steven Segal actually have fans?????

 

Ok, on to Tasos. There is a professional way to handle these issues and he didnt. Not even close. He attacked the writher of the review multiple times. He basiclly called EG trash in my eyes. He acted like a child being smacked on the hand. It is sad honestly. Tasos again makes himself and AV look like fools, though that truly isnt that hard to do

Wait a minute.. I want to know who in their right mind believes Steven Segal has fans...

Originally posted by argos5

As a representative of AV, Tasos Flambouras fails at being a professional of the industry. No matter how much criticism he has received about this lack of professionalism, he has not improved.

Well doesn't he simply download a macro and level his professionalism skill overnight ?

Everybody else in Darkfall does that

Originally posted by TheHavok

I do not play Darkfall. (The game I am looking forward to now is Aion). But I applaud Tasos. Lets be honest, we are very harsh critics. We bitch and moan about games. Sure we praise games, but if most in this community finds a game they do not like, they will tear it to shreds. So, the most vocal and scrutinous of our community ends up being the reviewers, the critics that many people turn to for their review. They are the people WE turn to, to give us a general idea of how said game is because that’s their job right? And if it’s their job, they must have earned it somehow right? Whether you like their review or not, you must realize that they have a lot of power to influence people that read their review. So along comes somebody that abuses that influence and power and he gets caught. Tasos calls bullshit and it turns out, Tasos was right. Unfortunately they now have involved Kieron Gillen (the second reviewer) in this mess. Gillen is a smart and professional guy, but unfortunately he cannot properly clean up what Eurogamer started if Eurogamer is unwilling to scrap the first review. The ball is in Tasos' court now. Do you think he's going to give that power back to the people that tried to screw him over? I wouldn't. I would do what Tasos is doing and stand up for myself and my company. I would say to Eurogamer “you screwed up and this is YOUR mess, we aren’t going to just forgive and forget so you can somehow justify yourself and save face.”

I'm sorry, you are ill informed as to the facts...

Tasos Flambouras has lied to me and others countless times...   and when cornered or pressure to actually answer, he provided lipservice or another lie to cover it up.

Once the NDA dropped, he went silent and has only been heard from publically twice... both to defend a game that he has been lying about for several years. Nothing the man says can be taken with any credibility, what-so-ever.

He wasn't defending Darkfall, but his job! As those reviews would eventually be brought to the bank and investors attention and his lies to THEm, would also be revealed. So in order to protect his job, he had to attack EUROGAMER.com and make excusses as to why someone would publically call his game a POS.

Which it is, but that's not the point, he likes doing nothing for a living, so calling himself a developer and sweet talking people comes with a very quick DEFENSE MECHNISM ..!

Originally posted by Interitus

Originally posted by MadAce

Tasos was right and I applaud him. I also applaud your post.

 

The reason why his actions haven't been popular the past few days.

"EMO!": It would appear Tasos is being *shocker* emotional *shocker* about the unfair way his company, friends, colleagues and game has been slandered. I've read everything he wrote about the situation. He was very down to earth about it and also very rational. His actions and proposals were logical and I can't image anyone doing something else.
The reason why online communities have a hard time understanding his reaction is twofold. Firstly, people are used to developers behaving like they are super-human Gods, unwilling to stoop to the level of the mere masses. They're in fact shocked that they can't just treat this guy as an inanimate objects to which they can vent all their childish insecurities and short-lived angers like they do with other devs. No. This guy is human. Has mortgages to pay, has hopes and dreams, ... Their worst nightmare is that all devs start reacting like this.
Secondly, people usually haven't invested a long time in something. Ever. In their lives. They can't even begin to imagine someone doing something like making a independent mmo for a niche market. Oh, sure, they've been whining and pleading and posting for many of these features... But actually, really making a game like that? No. That'd be absurd.

BTW, for Tasos this is real life. It's a real life few years for him. A real life team. A real life dream. And real life bills. Don't post "OMG, U dun understand, cuz ill only be enterin real life in anoter 8 years or so" because we know that and do our very best to understand (with mixed success).

"Not professional!": Who's to say what's professional? Frankly I can't think of any other way to react in a situation like this. Sure, we're not accustomed to a dev acting like this. That's because a whole lot of them took the easy road and avoided independent game developing and its immense responsibilities like the plague. Big publishers and studio's don't bother reacting to bad publicity because theyll just buy a few more good reviews. Their public relations people also have straight-jackets nearby when a dev happens to glance an unfair review and he acts emo to this, possibly even with the plan to speak out about it.

"I don't like the game and the centre of the universe is in my ass": People might have been dissapointed by Darkfall. Can happen. I have no idea how good the game is. People can react in two ways: 1: Act like little retards and start to personally attack Aventurine and its people whenever they can, whereever they can. 2: Write a few level-headed, objective posts about it in appropriate topics.

 

 

 

Why am I doing this? No one ever changes their minds or adjusts their ways on the internet.

 

 

This is the biggest joke! Yes it might be real life, but all he is doing is digging himself a deeper hole.  Do you honestly believe anyone will hire him in the future after seeing how he behaves?  His reputation is his life line and he's standing on nothing now.

 

You don't know what professional is? Really? Honestly? Look at ANY number of entertainment sources out there, they all seem to take severe criticsm in strides. But Tasos, has been so much, he doesn't deserve any more harsh remarks, right?  No, it doesn't work that way. The best ( depending on your side) part about this is, is that he did this online. This wasn't some taped interview where he lost his cool.  All he needed to do was walk away from his desk, cool down and come up with a way to handle it so both parties were at least happier with the situation. He let his temper flare and instead made a fool of himself.

 

Tasos irrational behaviour is going to be the end of him. If Darkfall ever closes, he's going to have to look for work in a different industry, no one would touch him with a 10 foot pole. 

I can tell you right here and now that his behaviour is no different from that of other devs out there. Difference with them and him is that Tasos isn't under the umbrella of a publisher. There's no army of lawyers to use his proof. In fact, the mere fact that he oesn't have this army of lawyers is the reason why Eurogamer published the review in the first place. There's also no army of PR people to react to this outrage in "a professional manner". Tasos is in this alone.

So I'm not sure why not to hire him. He's just the same as everyone else out there. I know for a fact that any project I worked on for longer than a week will get an "emo" (in the way Tasos was emo) reaction from me if someone dismisses it without a look, while effectively threatening my lovelyhood. Luckily I've never been in such a situation since all projects I do are just for fun. I can't even begin to imagine working on something for years, and then seeing its repuation go down the drain because people are assholes AND lose money in the process. It's a miracle Tasos didn't crush the balls of a certain reviewer...

What also is a very important factor: Many companies don't mind a bad review or two, as they have a marketing budget which is about a multitude in size of the entire Darkfall production budget. They can take it and respond in kind with an onslaught of online adds and bought reviews. They don't care, really. Sure, the devs might care to see their work assaulted. But the publishers? Nah. As long as they're making money... They're fine.

Darkfall hasn't been reviewed a lot. By anyone. As is usually the case for this kind of game. So any unjustly negative review has a lot more impact than it should have. Tasos understands this. Sadly enough the "I'm so spoiled I have never had to work a day in my life, but at the same time I strangely understand how the working guys providing MY entertainment have to behave"-crowd doesn't.

And I'd like you to quote me Tasos saying irrational stuff. I think he was quite rational and friendly considering the maddening circumstances.

Originally posted by Alienovrlord
Originally posted by MadAce

"Not professional!": Who's to say what's professional? Frankly I can't think of any other way to react in a situation like this.
Try reading other posts because numerous people have been making suggestions about what could have been done better - ranging from ignoring the review to addressing the points and promising to improve them. It doesn't take much effort to think them up better ways to handle the situation, starting with acting like an adult running a business, not a immature, whiny kid.

For example, Tasos could have contacted Eurogamer PRIVATELY and shown them the reviewer's gameplay logs. He could have easily made a case that the review did not go in enough depth with the game and from what we've seen Eurogamer is willing to do re-reviews. He probably could have even convinced them to pull the review if he hadn't gone public and forced Eurogamer to take a stand.

There are many, many better ways to react to this kind of situation, it happens in business all the time.

If I'm not mistaken Tasos DID contact EG privately.

Originally posted by MadAce

Darkfall hasn't been reviewed a lot. By anyone. As is usually the case for this kind of game. So any unjustly negative review has a lot more impact than it should have. Tasos understands this. Sadly enough the "I'm so spoiled I have never had to work a day in my life, but at the same time I strangely understand how the working guys providing MY entertainment have to behave"-crowd doesn't.

 If I'm not mistaken Tasos DID contact EG privately.      

Well that's what he claims anyway but there are a couple of things further i want to set in question:

1)Isn't he the one also the one jumping the gun and going public with personal accusations against the reviewer and so called proof for those accusations that he can't release to the public?

2) Isn't he also the one that denied the re-review? While Eurogamer tried to appease him and choosing the milder path of trying to resolve this in the mature way by sending one of their top men to make a re-review Tasos went into a second BF (after his initial one) spitted back in their face and tried further defaming them. Who's the unprofessional again?

3) Isn't he the one that agreed to the Eurogamer making a review in the first place? So why is he complaining now? Because he didn't like it? Now i don't know precisely how the whole "reviewing" thing works for professional companies and sites that do that and i can only guess, but i'm almost certain that it doesn't go something like (at least i hope not) "Tasos: Hey Eurogamer, i'm gonna ALLOW you to review my game as long as the review is possitive one" ,if that would be the case then Darkfall, hell, any game for that matter should hang a banner on their site {Only reviewers that give possitive reviews allowed,kk,thnx, bb now !!!}

Oh and thank you for patronising us  on the ways how things work IRL. We would've been lost without you, it's always nice to see somenone claiming success, intelligence, wealth or maturity (which is your case) over the internet.........

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by MadAce

Darkfall hasn't been reviewed a lot. By anyone. As is usually the case for this kind of game. So any unjustly negative review has a lot more impact than it should have. Tasos understands this. Sadly enough the "I'm so spoiled I have never had to work a day in my life, but at the same time I strangely understand how the working guys providing MY entertainment have to behave"-crowd doesn't.

 If I'm not mistaken Tasos DID contact EG privately.      

Well that's what he claims anyway but there are a couple of things further i want to set in question:

1)Isn't he the one also the one jumping the gun and going public with personal accusations against the reviewer and so called proof for those accusations that he can't release to the public?

2) Isn't he also the one that denied the re-review? While Eurogamer tried to appease him and choosing the milder path of trying to resolve this in the mature way by sending one of their top men to make a re-review Tasos went into a second BF (after his initial one) spitted back in their face and tried further defaming them. Who's the unprofessional again?

3) Isn't he the one that agreed to the Eurogamer making a review in the first place? So why is he complaining now? Because he didn't like it? Now i don't know precisely how the whole "reviewing" thing works for professional companies and sites that do that and i can only guess, but i'm almost certain that it doesn't go something like (at least i hope not) "Tasos: Hey Eurogamer, i'm gonna ALLOW you to review my game as long as the review is possitive one" ,if that would be the case then Darkfall, hell, any game for that matter should hang a banner on their site {Only reviewers that give possitive reviews allowed,kk,thnx, bb now !!!}

 

Oh and thank you for patronising us  on the ways how things work IRL. We would've been lost without you, it's always nice to see somenone claiming success, intelligence, wealth or maturity (which is your case) over the internet.........

 

1) EG never denied him going private first. They could have but didn't. He also never said he wouldn't release the proof to the public. He quoted examples from the logs, so that's quite public.

2) He's refusing a re-review for good reasons. The mere fact that they suggested a re-review says something, don't you think? Tho I do think Tasos is doing EG a favor as no outcome of the re-review would've been good for EG. A 2/10 would've made people say the second review was framed too. While a 8/10 woul've made people wonder about EG's credibility. BTW, allowing a reviewer to finish the conclusion about an MMO after only 9 hours is unprofessional IMHO.

3) He's complaining because the review isn't actually a review. It's mostly made up as the reviewer hardly spent any time inside the game doing any playing.

I didn't claim any of the things you list. And I'm always glad to patronize you. Tho I must admit I'd be happier choosing harder, more challenging targets.

no, its not wrong to stand up for what you belive in.

but its wrong when a "proffesional"  PR man is acting like a crossbreed of an insulted 12 year old and a poo slinging monkey.

Originally posted by gruminator

no, its not wrong to stand up for what you belive in.

but its wrong when a "proffesional"  PR man is acting like a crossbreed of an insulted 12 year old and a poo slinging monkey.

How is he a "PR man"?

Originally posted by MadAce

Originally posted by gruminator

no, its not wrong to stand up for what you belive in.

but its wrong when a "proffesional"  PR man is acting like a crossbreed of an insulted 12 year old and a poo slinging monkey.

 

How is he a "PR man"?

ok, Aventurines face to the world. happy now?

Originally posted by MadAce

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by MadAce

Darkfall hasn't been reviewed a lot. By anyone. As is usually the case for this kind of game. So any unjustly negative review has a lot more impact than it should have. Tasos understands this. Sadly enough the "I'm so spoiled I have never had to work a day in my life, but at the same time I strangely understand how the working guys providing MY entertainment have to behave"-crowd doesn't.

 If I'm not mistaken Tasos DID contact EG privately.      

Well that's what he claims anyway but there are a couple of things further i want to set in question:

1)Isn't he the one also the one jumping the gun and going public with personal accusations against the reviewer and so called proof for those accusations that he can't release to the public?

2) Isn't he also the one that denied the re-review? While Eurogamer tried to appease him and choosing the milder path of trying to resolve this in the mature way by sending one of their top men to make a re-review Tasos went into a second BF (after his initial one) spitted back in their face and tried further defaming them. Who's the unprofessional again?

3) Isn't he the one that agreed to the Eurogamer making a review in the first place? So why is he complaining now? Because he didn't like it? Now i don't know precisely how the whole "reviewing" thing works for professional companies and sites that do that and i can only guess, but i'm almost certain that it doesn't go something like (at least i hope not) "Tasos: Hey Eurogamer, i'm gonna ALLOW you to review my game as long as the review is possitive one" ,if that would be the case then Darkfall, hell, any game for that matter should hang a banner on their site {Only reviewers that give possitive reviews allowed,kk,thnx, bb now !!!}

 

Oh and thank you for patronising us  on the ways how things work IRL. We would've been lost without you, it's always nice to see somenone claiming success, intelligence, wealth or maturity (which is your case) over the internet.........

 

1) EG never denied him going private first. They could have but didn't. He also never said he wouldn't release the proof to the public. He quoted examples from the logs, so that's quite public.

Then by all means let him do so. Let there be light!!!!!!! But i'm pretty sure that he only quotes this "proof" instead of actually releasing it for a very good reason and let everyone figure out what this reason is for themselves.........

2) He's refusing a re-review for good reasons. The mere fact that they suggested a re-review says something, don't you think? Tho I do think Tasos is doing EG a favor as no outcome of the re-review would've been good for EG. A 2/10 would've made people say the second review was framed too. While a 8/10 woul've made people wonder about EG's credibility. BTW, allowing a reviewer to finish the conclusion about an MMO after only 9 hours is unprofessional IMHO.

This only tells me that someone is afraid the the re-review would simply verify the previous and then he would really be out of BS to throw to his fanbase.As for the re-review condradicting the original one that would've been EG's problem, no skin of Tasos's back but as i said there was only 1 reason why he didn't want the re-review IMHO. As for whether or not it is or it isn't unprofessional.......well you are entitled to your opinion as i am in mine and so is the reviewer in his.You know what they say about opinions don't you? Just read under my avatar..........

3) He's complaining because the review isn't actually a review. It's mostly made up as the reviewer hardly spent any time inside the game doing any playing.

Again if he does believe so let him back his claims up with the actual logs not just quotes out of them but i suspect that is a bit more than just practicality that is stopping him from doing so.

 

I didn't claim any of the things you list. And I'm always glad to patronize you. Tho I must admit I'd be happier choosing harder, more challenging targets.

I never said YOU claimed anything (asides the part in red), i said that this is being claimed by Tasos, the rest are mostly questions(with a personal objervation thrown in it) in case you missed the {?} at the end of the sentences. So unless i'm having this conversation with Tasos right now i don't see how could you take it so personally.................or am i talking to Tasos by any chance ?? And if by challenging you mean people that don't bother answering back then yes i'm sorry for not being "challenging" enough for you

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by MadAce

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by MadAce

Darkfall hasn't been reviewed a lot. By anyone. As is usually the case for this kind of game. So any unjustly negative review has a lot more impact than it should have. Tasos understands this. Sadly enough the "I'm so spoiled I have never had to work a day in my life, but at the same time I strangely understand how the working guys providing MY entertainment have to behave"-crowd doesn't.

 If I'm not mistaken Tasos DID contact EG privately.      

Well that's what he claims anyway but there are a couple of things further i want to set in question:

1)Isn't he the one also the one jumping the gun and going public with personal accusations against the reviewer and so called proof for those accusations that he can't release to the public?

2) Isn't he also the one that denied the re-review? While Eurogamer tried to appease him and choosing the milder path of trying to resolve this in the mature way by sending one of their top men to make a re-review Tasos went into a second BF (after his initial one) spitted back in their face and tried further defaming them. Who's the unprofessional again?

3) Isn't he the one that agreed to the Eurogamer making a review in the first place? So why is he complaining now? Because he didn't like it? Now i don't know precisely how the whole "reviewing" thing works for professional companies and sites that do that and i can only guess, but i'm almost certain that it doesn't go something like (at least i hope not) "Tasos: Hey Eurogamer, i'm gonna ALLOW you to review my game as long as the review is possitive one" ,if that would be the case then Darkfall, hell, any game for that matter should hang a banner on their site {Only reviewers that give possitive reviews allowed,kk,thnx, bb now !!!}

 

Oh and thank you for patronising us  on the ways how things work IRL. We would've been lost without you, it's always nice to see somenone claiming success, intelligence, wealth or maturity (which is your case) over the internet.........

 

1) EG never denied him going private first. They could have but didn't. He also never said he wouldn't release the proof to the public. He quoted examples from the logs, so that's quite public.

Then by all means let him do so. Let there be light!!!!!!! But i'm pretty sure that he only quotes this "proof" instead of actually releasing it for a very good reason and let everyone figure out what this reason is for themselves.........

Tasos offered EG to send someone over to review all the logs. Tasos offered to pay for the trip and all expenses that would be made by the person. EG refused.

2) He's refusing a re-review for good reasons. The mere fact that they suggested a re-review says something, don't you think? Tho I do think Tasos is doing EG a favor as no outcome of the re-review would've been good for EG. A 2/10 would've made people say the second review was framed too. While a 8/10 woul've made people wonder about EG's credibility. BTW, allowing a reviewer to finish the conclusion about an MMO after only 9 hours is unprofessional IMHO.

This only tells me that someone is afraid the the re-review would simply verify the previous and then he would really be out of BS to throw to his fanbase.As for the re-review condradicting the original one that would've been EG's problem, no skin of Tasos's back but as i said there was only 1 reason why he didn't want the re-review IMHO. As for whether or not it is or it isn't unprofessional.......well you are entitled to your opinion as i am in mine and so is the reviewer in his.You know what they say about opinions don't you? Just read under my avatar..........

I'm sorry, but there's a massive difference between the opinion of an official reviewer and ours. That should be quite known.

I suggest you read the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics#Common_elements

3) He's complaining because the review isn't actually a review. It's mostly made up as the reviewer hardly spent any time inside the game doing any playing.

Again if he does believe so let him back his claims up with the actual logs not just quotes out of them but i suspect that is a bit more than just practicality that is stopping him from doing so.

 See my reply to 1.

I didn't claim any of the things you list. And I'm always glad to patronize you. Tho I must admit I'd be happier choosing harder, more challenging targets.

I never said YOU claimed anything (asides the part in red), i said that this is being claimed by Tasos, the rest are mostly questions(with a personal objervation thrown in it) in case you missed the {?} at the end of the sentences. So unless i'm having this conversation with Tasos right now i don't see how could you take it so personally.................or am i talking to Tasos by any chance ?? And if by challenging you mean people that don't bother answering back then yes i'm sorry for not being "challenging" enough for you

You're not talking to Tasos. So no reason for dellusions of grandeur from your part.

 

to answer the OP question.. No, it's not wrong. If they wanted a score of 5+ they should work on that first and don't be surprised if someone tell them the game is utter crap.

Originally posted by MadAce

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by MadAce

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by MadAce

Darkfall hasn't been reviewed a lot. By anyone. As is usually the case for this kind of game. So any unjustly negative review has a lot more impact than it should have. Tasos understands this. Sadly enough the "I'm so spoiled I have never had to work a day in my life, but at the same time I strangely understand how the working guys providing MY entertainment have to behave"-crowd doesn't.

 If I'm not mistaken Tasos DID contact EG privately.      

Well that's what he claims anyway but there are a couple of things further i want to set in question:

1)Isn't he the one also the one jumping the gun and going public with personal accusations against the reviewer and so called proof for those accusations that he can't release to the public?

2) Isn't he also the one that denied the re-review? While Eurogamer tried to appease him and choosing the milder path of trying to resolve this in the mature way by sending one of their top men to make a re-review Tasos went into a second BF (after his initial one) spitted back in their face and tried further defaming them. Who's the unprofessional again?

3) Isn't he the one that agreed to the Eurogamer making a review in the first place? So why is he complaining now? Because he didn't like it? Now i don't know precisely how the whole "reviewing" thing works for professional companies and sites that do that and i can only guess, but i'm almost certain that it doesn't go something like (at least i hope not) "Tasos: Hey Eurogamer, i'm gonna ALLOW you to review my game as long as the review is possitive one" ,if that would be the case then Darkfall, hell, any game for that matter should hang a banner on their site {Only reviewers that give possitive reviews allowed,kk,thnx, bb now !!!}

 

Oh and thank you for patronising us  on the ways how things work IRL. We would've been lost without you, it's always nice to see somenone claiming success, intelligence, wealth or maturity (which is your case) over the internet.........

 

1) EG never denied him going private first. They could have but didn't. He also never said he wouldn't release the proof to the public. He quoted examples from the logs, so that's quite public.

Then by all means let him do so. Let there be light!!!!!!! But i'm pretty sure that he only quotes this "proof" instead of actually releasing it for a very good reason and let everyone figure out what this reason is for themselves.........

Tasos offered EG to send someone over to review all the logs. Tasos offered to pay for the trip and all expenses that would be made by the person. EG refused.

And it's simply beyond me as well why after all his accusations of fraud, denying their offer of re-reviewing and slandering them in public forums would any normal person say "*bleep* that guy". It's not like he actually agreed that they could review his game in the first place? And it's not like he and his actions make him and the company he represents look ,for a lack of better euphemism, dubious or anything right? When one leaves himself open to critisism it is up to him proving himsef to his critic(s) not the other way around

2) He's refusing a re-review for good reasons. The mere fact that they suggested a re-review says something, don't you think? Tho I do think Tasos is doing EG a favor as no outcome of the re-review would've been good for EG. A 2/10 would've made people say the second review was framed too. While a 8/10 woul've made people wonder about EG's credibility. BTW, allowing a reviewer to finish the conclusion about an MMO after only 9 hours is unprofessional IMHO.

This only tells me that someone is afraid the the re-review would simply verify the previous and then he would really be out of BS to throw to his fanbase.As for the re-review condradicting the original one that would've been EG's problem, no skin of Tasos's back but as i said there was only 1 reason why he didn't want the re-review IMHO. As for whether or not it is or it isn't unprofessional.......well you are entitled to your opinion as i am in mine and so is the reviewer in his.You know what they say about opinions don't you? Just read under my avatar..........

I'm sorry, but there's a massive difference between the opinion of an official reviewer and ours. That should be quite known.

I suggest you read the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics#Common_elements

*I type "reviewer" in my Lexicon and i get this definition: A reviewer is a person who reviews new, books ,films,records,plays or concerts 

{critic,commentator judge}

*i type "review" and i get:A review is a report  in the media in which someone gives their opinion of something such as a new book or film.

*Now i type in "journalist" and i get this definition: A journalist is a person that whose job is to collect news and write about it for newspapers, magazines, television ot radio      

{reporter,broadcaster,collumnist, commentator, correspondent,hack,journo,newsman or newswoman, pressman.}

Do you understand the difference of the definition between those two professions or must i draw a nice picture for you?

Uh, oh wikipedia link ! And here's minewww.journalism.org/node/1676  just to make you think on the credibility of your sources next time you decide to post a link.

3) He's complaining because the review isn't actually a review. It's mostly made up as the reviewer hardly spent any time inside the game doing any playing.

Again if he does believe so let him back his claims up with the actual logs not just quotes out of them but i suspect that is a bit more than just practicality that is stopping him from doing so.

 See my reply to 1.

  Right back at ya...

I didn't claim any of the things you list. And I'm always glad to patronize you. Tho I must admit I'd be happier choosing harder, more challenging targets.

I never said YOU claimed anything (asides the part in red), i said that this is being claimed by Tasos, the rest are mostly questions(with a personal objervation thrown in it) in case you missed the {?} at the end of the sentences. So unless i'm having this conversation with Tasos right now i don't see how could you take it so personally.................or am i talking to Tasos by any chance ?? And if by challenging you mean people that don't bother answering back then yes i'm sorry for not being "challenging" enough for you

You're not talking to Tasos. So no reason for dellusions of grandeur from your part.

Also grandeur is someone's great importance and social status that they have, or they think they have

It seems to me that only one of us is that holds Tasos to any grandeur and that one ain't me

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by MadAce

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by MadAce

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by MadAce

Darkfall hasn't been reviewed a lot. By anyone. As is usually the case for this kind of game. So any unjustly negative review has a lot more impact than it should have. Tasos understands this. Sadly enough the "I'm so spoiled I have never had to work a day in my life, but at the same time I strangely understand how the working guys providing MY entertainment have to behave"-crowd doesn't.

 If I'm not mistaken Tasos DID contact EG privately.      

Well that's what he claims anyway but there are a couple of things further i want to set in question:

1)Isn't he the one also the one jumping the gun and going public with personal accusations against the reviewer and so called proof for those accusations that he can't release to the public?

2) Isn't he also the one that denied the re-review? While Eurogamer tried to appease him and choosing the milder path of trying to resolve this in the mature way by sending one of their top men to make a re-review Tasos went into a second BF (after his initial one) spitted back in their face and tried further defaming them. Who's the unprofessional again?

3) Isn't he the one that agreed to the Eurogamer making a review in the first place? So why is he complaining now? Because he didn't like it? Now i don't know precisely how the whole "reviewing" thing works for professional companies and sites that do that and i can only guess, but i'm almost certain that it doesn't go something like (at least i hope not) "Tasos: Hey Eurogamer, i'm gonna ALLOW you to review my game as long as the review is possitive one" ,if that would be the case then Darkfall, hell, any game for that matter should hang a banner on their site {Only reviewers that give possitive reviews allowed,kk,thnx, bb now !!!}

 

Oh and thank you for patronising us  on the ways how things work IRL. We would've been lost without you, it's always nice to see somenone claiming success, intelligence, wealth or maturity (which is your case) over the internet.........

 

1) EG never denied him going private first. They could have but didn't. He also never said he wouldn't release the proof to the public. He quoted examples from the logs, so that's quite public.

Then by all means let him do so. Let there be light!!!!!!! But i'm pretty sure that he only quotes this "proof" instead of actually releasing it for a very good reason and let everyone figure out what this reason is for themselves.........

Tasos offered EG to send someone over to review all the logs. Tasos offered to pay for the trip and all expenses that would be made by the person. EG refused.

And it's simply beyond me as well why after all his accusations of fraud, denying their offer of re-reviewing and slandering them in public forums would any normal person say "*bleep* that guy". It's not like he actually agreed that they could review his game in the first place? And it's not like he and his actions make him and the company he represents look ,for a lack of better euphemism, dubious or anything right? When one leaves himself open to critisism it is up to him proving himsef to his critic(s) not the other way around

2) He's refusing a re-review for good reasons. The mere fact that they suggested a re-review says something, don't you think? Tho I do think Tasos is doing EG a favor as no outcome of the re-review would've been good for EG. A 2/10 would've made people say the second review was framed too. While a 8/10 woul've made people wonder about EG's credibility. BTW, allowing a reviewer to finish the conclusion about an MMO after only 9 hours is unprofessional IMHO.

This only tells me that someone is afraid the the re-review would simply verify the previous and then he would really be out of BS to throw to his fanbase.As for the re-review condradicting the original one that would've been EG's problem, no skin of Tasos's back but as i said there was only 1 reason why he didn't want the re-review IMHO. As for whether or not it is or it isn't unprofessional.......well you are entitled to your opinion as i am in mine and so is the reviewer in his.You know what they say about opinions don't you? Just read under my avatar..........

I'm sorry, but there's a massive difference between the opinion of an official reviewer and ours. That should be quite known.

I suggest you read the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics#Common_elements

*I type "reviewer" in my Lexicon and i get this definition: A reviewer is a person who reviews new, books ,films,records,plays or concerts 

{critic,commentator judge}

*i type "review" and i get:A review is a report  in the media in which someone gives their opinion of something such as a new book or film.

*Now i type in "journalist" and i get this definition: A journalist is a person that whose job is to collect news and write about it for newspapers, magazines, television ot radio      

{reporter,broadcaster,collumnist, commentator, correspondent,hack,journo,newsman or newswoman, pressman.}

Do you understand the difference of the definition between those two professions or must i draw a nice picture for you?

Uh, oh wikipedia link ! And here's minewww.journalism.org/node/1676  just to make you think on the credibility of your sources next time you decide to post a link.

3) He's complaining because the review isn't actually a review. It's mostly made up as the reviewer hardly spent any time inside the game doing any playing.

Again if he does believe so let him back his claims up with the actual logs not just quotes out of them but i suspect that is a bit more than just practicality that is stopping him from doing so.

 See my reply to 1.

  Right back at ya...

I didn't claim any of the things you list. And I'm always glad to patronize you. Tho I must admit I'd be happier choosing harder, more challenging targets.

I never said YOU claimed anything (asides the part in red), i said that this is being claimed by Tasos, the rest are mostly questions(with a personal objervation thrown in it) in case you missed the {?} at the end of the sentences. So unless i'm having this conversation with Tasos right now i don't see how could you take it so personally.................or am i talking to Tasos by any chance ?? And if by challenging you mean people that don't bother answering back then yes i'm sorry for not being "challenging" enough for you

You're not talking to Tasos. So no reason for dellusions of grandeur from your part.

Also grandeur is someone's great importance and social status that they have, or they think they have

It seems to me that only one of us is that holds Tasos to any grandeur and that one ain't me

 

 

AHHHHHH TOO MANY COLORS!!!!!!

Originally posted by Armisael191

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by MadAce

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by MadAce

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by MadAce

Darkfall hasn't been reviewed a lot. By anyone. As is usually the case for this kind of game. So any unjustly negative review has a lot more impact than it should have. Tasos understands this. Sadly enough the "I'm so spoiled I have never had to work a day in my life, but at the same time I strangely understand how the working guys providing MY entertainment have to behave"-crowd doesn't.

 If I'm not mistaken Tasos DID contact EG privately.      

Well that's what he claims anyway but there are a couple of things further i want to set in question:

1)Isn't he the one also the one jumping the gun and going public with personal accusations against the reviewer and so called proof for those accusations that he can't release to the public?

2) Isn't he also the one that denied the re-review? While Eurogamer tried to appease him and choosing the milder path of trying to resolve this in the mature way by sending one of their top men to make a re-review Tasos went into a second BF (after his initial one) spitted back in their face and tried further defaming them. Who's the unprofessional again?

3) Isn't he the one that agreed to the Eurogamer making a review in the first place? So why is he complaining now? Because he didn't like it? Now i don't know precisely how the whole "reviewing" thing works for professional companies and sites that do that and i can only guess, but i'm almost certain that it doesn't go something like (at least i hope not) "Tasos: Hey Eurogamer, i'm gonna ALLOW you to review my game as long as the review is possitive one" ,if that would be the case then Darkfall, hell, any game for that matter should hang a banner on their site {Only reviewers that give possitive reviews allowed,kk,thnx, bb now !!!}

 

Oh and thank you for patronising us  on the ways how things work IRL. We would've been lost without you, it's always nice to see somenone claiming success, intelligence, wealth or maturity (which is your case) over the internet.........

 

1) EG never denied him going private first. They could have but didn't. He also never said he wouldn't release the proof to the public. He quoted examples from the logs, so that's quite public.

Then by all means let him do so. Let there be light!!!!!!! But i'm pretty sure that he only quotes this "proof" instead of actually releasing it for a very good reason and let everyone figure out what this reason is for themselves.........

Tasos offered EG to send someone over to review all the logs. Tasos offered to pay for the trip and all expenses that would be made by the person. EG refused.

And it's simply beyond me as well why after all his accusations of fraud, denying their offer of re-reviewing and slandering them in public forums would any normal person say "*bleep* that guy". It's not like he actually agreed that they could review his game in the first place? And it's not like he and his actions make him and the company he represents look ,for a lack of better euphemism, dubious or anything right? When one leaves himself open to critisism it is up to him proving himsef to his critic(s) not the other way around

2) He's refusing a re-review for good reasons. The mere fact that they suggested a re-review says something, don't you think? Tho I do think Tasos is doing EG a favor as no outcome of the re-review would've been good for EG. A 2/10 would've made people say the second review was framed too. While a 8/10 woul've made people wonder about EG's credibility. BTW, allowing a reviewer to finish the conclusion about an MMO after only 9 hours is unprofessional IMHO.

This only tells me that someone is afraid the the re-review would simply verify the previous and then he would really be out of BS to throw to his fanbase.As for the re-review condradicting the original one that would've been EG's problem, no skin of Tasos's back but as i said there was only 1 reason why he didn't want the re-review IMHO. As for whether or not it is or it isn't unprofessional.......well you are entitled to your opinion as i am in mine and so is the reviewer in his.You know what they say about opinions don't you? Just read under my avatar..........

I'm sorry, but there's a massive difference between the opinion of an official reviewer and ours. That should be quite known.

I suggest you read the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics#Common_elements

*I type "reviewer" in my Lexicon and i get this definition: A reviewer is a person who reviews new, books ,films,records,plays or concerts 

{critic,commentator judge}

*i type "review" and i get:A review is a report  in the media in which someone gives their opinion of something such as a new book or film.

*Now i type in "journalist" and i get this definition: A journalist is a person that whose job is to collect news and write about it for newspapers, magazines, television ot radio      

{reporter,broadcaster,collumnist, commentator, correspondent,hack,journo,newsman or newswoman, pressman.}

Do you understand the difference of the definition between those two professions or must i draw a nice picture for you?

Uh, oh wikipedia link ! And here's minewww.journalism.org/node/1676  just to make you think on the credibility of your sources next time you decide to post a link.

3) He's complaining because the review isn't actually a review. It's mostly made up as the reviewer hardly spent any time inside the game doing any playing.

Again if he does believe so let him back his claims up with the actual logs not just quotes out of them but i suspect that is a bit more than just practicality that is stopping him from doing so.

 See my reply to 1.

  Right back at ya...

I didn't claim any of the things you list. And I'm always glad to patronize you. Tho I must admit I'd be happier choosing harder, more challenging targets.

I never said YOU claimed anything (asides the part in red), i said that this is being claimed by Tasos, the rest are mostly questions(with a personal objervation thrown in it) in case you missed the {?} at the end of the sentences. So unless i'm having this conversation with Tasos right now i don't see how could you take it so personally.................or am i talking to Tasos by any chance ?? And if by challenging you mean people that don't bother answering back then yes i'm sorry for not being "challenging" enough for you

You're not talking to Tasos. So no reason for dellusions of grandeur from your part.

Also grandeur is someone's great importance and social status that they have, or they think they have

It seems to me that only one of us is that holds Tasos to any grandeur and that one ain't me

 

 

AHHHHHH TOO MANY COLORS!!!!!!