I do not play Darkfall. (The game I am looking forward to now is Aion). But I applaud Tasos. Lets be honest, we are very harsh critics. We bitch and moan about games. Sure we praise games, but if most in this community finds a game they do not like, they will tear it to shreds. So, the most vocal and scrutinous of our community ends up being the reviewers, the critics that many people turn to for their review. They are the people WE turn to, to give us a general idea of how said game is because that’s their job right? And if it’s their job, they must have earned it somehow right? Whether you like their review or not, you must realize that they have a lot of power to influence people that read their review. So along comes somebody that abuses that influence and power and he gets caught. Tasos calls bullshit and it turns out, Tasos was right. Unfortunately they now have involved Kieron Gillen (the second reviewer) in this mess. Gillen is a smart and professional guy, but unfortunately he cannot properly clean up what Eurogamer started if Eurogamer is unwilling to scrap the first review. The ball is in Tasos' court now. Do you think he's going to give that power back to the people that tried to screw him over? I wouldn't. I would do what Tasos is doing and stand up for myself and my company. I would say to Eurogamer “you screwed up and this is YOUR mess, we aren’t going to just forgive and forget so you can somehow justify yourself and save face.”

Yes its wrong to stand up for yourself.  The charge I got for defending myself in a fight showed me that.

Originally posted by TheHavok

I do not play Darkfall. (The game I am looking forward to now is Aion). But I applaud Tasos. Lets be honest, we are very harsh critics. We bitch and moan about games. Sure we praise games, but if most in this community finds a game they do not like, they will tear it to shreds. So, the most vocal and scrutinous of our community ends up being the reviewers, the critics that many people turn to for their review. They are the people WE turn to, to give us a general idea of how said game is because that’s their job right? And if it’s their job, they must have earned it somehow right? Whether you like their review or not, you must realize that they have a lot of power to influence people that read their review. So along comes somebody that abuses that influence and power and he gets caught. Tasos calls bullshit and it turns out, Tasos was right. Unfortunately they now have involved Kieron Gillen (the second reviewer) in this mess. Gillen is a smart and professional guy, but unfortunately he cannot properly clean up what Eurogamer started if Eurogamer is unwilling to scrap the first review. The ball is in Tasos' court now. Do you think he's going to give that power back to the people that tried to screw him over? I wouldn't. I would do what Tasos is doing and stand up for myself and my company. I would say to Eurogamer “you screwed up and this is YOUR mess, we aren’t going to just forgive and forget so you can somehow justify yourself and save face.”

2/10

Originally posted by TheHavok

I do not play Darkfall. (The game I am looking forward to now is Aion). But I applaud Tasos. Lets be honest, we are very harsh critics. We bitch and moan about games. Sure we praise games, but if most in this community finds a game they do not like, they will tear it to shreds. So, the most vocal and scrutinous of our community ends up being the reviewers, the critics that many people turn to for their review. They are the people WE turn to, to give us a general idea of how said game is because that’s their job right? And if it’s their job, they must have earned it somehow right? Whether you like their review or not, you must realize that they have a lot of power to influence people that read their review. So along comes somebody that abuses that influence and power and he gets caught. Tasos calls bullshit and it turns out, Tasos was right. Unfortunately they now have involved Kieron Gillen (the second reviewer) in this mess. Gillen is a smart and professional guy, but unfortunately he cannot properly clean up what Eurogamer started if Eurogamer is unwilling to scrap the first review. The ball is in Tasos' court now. Do you think he's going to give that power back to the people that tried to screw him over? I wouldn't. I would do what Tasos is doing and stand up for myself and my company. I would say to Eurogamer “you screwed up and this is YOUR mess, we aren’t going to just forgive and forget so you can somehow justify yourself and save face.”

Tasos could of went about this issue in a more professional manner. Making this issue he has with EG public is not the proper method. People can defend him for what he is doing, and that is fine. But this should not be a public matter, plain and simple. Showing he could not hold his temper and letting it spew out into the public shows he has lack of control. And being a PR rep and possibly developer, he should show more control. This is a private matter, and it should of stayed that way.

Yeah he's being immature and he should want to do an interview to clear things up. Instead he's being a baby and it's just going to end up hurting him more.. which I could care less about actually.

You can stand up for your company/work without resorting to insults.

If in real life, every time you get a bad repercussion from your work, if you cry out loud "you disliked it because you freaking suck", would you expect to be taken seriously ever again? It's exactly what the CEO of Aventurine is doing, calling it a "fraud" and labeling it a "scandal" when he's the only one inflating the review and making all efforts to put it on the highlights, of course other sites are reporting it, but he must evaluate what he's saying when he's representing a whole company. "You reap what you sow" is how they call it.

My advice would be to keep a low profile about the review, ignoring it, so what, he rated it 2/10, if you have more upcoming reviews, and your product is great, what's bothering you? Creating all that fuss around EG just served to increase the amount of people browsing the gaming site, the Senior Editor must be loving Tasos and Ed for giving his website free advertising to a whole community.

Tasos wanted to discuss the review, but why not argue with facts around your game? Trying to discredit the reviewer sounds really unprofessional. Take it like a man. Or don't give accounts for reviews.

Originally posted by mackdawg19

Originally posted by TheHavok

I do not play Darkfall. (The game I am looking forward to now is Aion). But I applaud Tasos. Lets be honest, we are very harsh critics. We bitch and moan about games. Sure we praise games, but if most in this community finds a game they do not like, they will tear it to shreds. So, the most vocal and scrutinous of our community ends up being the reviewers, the critics that many people turn to for their review. They are the people WE turn to, to give us a general idea of how said game is because that’s their job right? And if it’s their job, they must have earned it somehow right? Whether you like their review or not, you must realize that they have a lot of power to influence people that read their review. So along comes somebody that abuses that influence and power and he gets caught. Tasos calls bullshit and it turns out, Tasos was right. Unfortunately they now have involved Kieron Gillen (the second reviewer) in this mess. Gillen is a smart and professional guy, but unfortunately he cannot properly clean up what Eurogamer started if Eurogamer is unwilling to scrap the first review. The ball is in Tasos' court now. Do you think he's going to give that power back to the people that tried to screw him over? I wouldn't. I would do what Tasos is doing and stand up for myself and my company. I would say to Eurogamer “you screwed up and this is YOUR mess, we aren’t going to just forgive and forget so you can somehow justify yourself and save face.”

 

Tasos could of went about this issue in a more professional manner. Making this issue he has with EG public is not the proper method. People can defend him for what he is doing, and that is fine. But this should not be a public matter, plain and simple. Showing he could not hold his temper and letting it spew out into the public shows he has lack of control. And being a PR rep and possibly developer, he should show more control. This is a private matter, and it should of stayed that way.

Heck with that, they should still allow dueling at 10 paces...that would make for interesting drama. 

I suppose it isn't wrong to stand up for something you've created. But when you've touted it off as the next best thing since sliced bread, you're going to get your ballsack ripped off, torn to bits and fed back to yourself when it's not anything you said it was going to be.

Deserved what the carebear is getting.

Its one thing to defend your company and your work by contacting the company or person you feel has wronged you and trying to find a way to resolve the issue in private; as many companies do.

Its a whole nother thing to make a PUBLIC insult against the person who reveiwed your game and then throw a tantrum over it.

MANY games have gotten bad reviews in the past, and many of them have still done well on the market DISPITE that. What Tasos has done thusfar is make himself, his game, and his company look badly.

I applaud Tasos.  Nothing wrong with what he did.

Originally posted by Routver

You can stand up for your company/work without resorting to insults.

 

If in real life, every time you get a bad repercussion from your work, if you cry out loud "you disliked it because you freaking suck", would you expect to be taken seriously ever again? It's exactly what the CEO of Aventurine is doing, calling it a "fraud" and labeling it a "scandal" when he's the only one inflating the review and making all efforts to put it on the highlights, of course other sites are reporting it, but he must evaluate what he's saying when he's representing a whole company. "You reap what you sow" is how they call it.

My advice would be to keep a low profile about the review, ignoring it, so what, he rated it 2/10, if you have more upcoming reviews, and your product is great, what's bothering you? Creating all that fuss around EG just served to increase the amount of people browsing the gaming site, the Senior Editor must be loving Tasos and Ed for giving his website free advertising to a whole community.

 

Tasos wanted to discuss the review, but why not argue with facts around your game? Trying to discredit the reviewer sounds really unprofessional. Take it like a man. Or don't give accounts for reviews.

Routver, I understand your point and before the game was released I thought to myself when I read one of Tasos' interviews "Who the hell does this guy think he is?  Calling people trolls and saying that his game is better then everybody elses?"  I even made a thread talking about how unprofessional he seemed and how professional companies like Blizzard did not put up with such behavior, like in the case of Tseric.  But, as the game came closer to release, as the hype began to build and the hatred began to grow, and as I began to witness for the first time, an indie company releasing a game in the mmorpg market with this much publicity, whether bad or good, I began to think....hey good for you Tasos, the game really ISN'T vaporware.  VAPORWARE. My oh my, how that term, that was once thrown in every darkfall thread, has completely disappeared.  I guess in a way I felt sorry for Darkfall after awhile.  I guess I felt happy that the underdog came out ontop.  And guess what, people are still trying to bring Darkfall down, giving it 9:00 hours of gametime actually played, or 2:33 according to Tasos, and then publishing their unfinished review.  Well they got caught red handed.  Does this mean Darkfall is a good game?  No.  Does this mean Darkfall is a bad game?  Not exactly, but it begins to show that people that take into account the actions of the reviewer will begin to lean more towards the latter.  Tasos isn't going to let people walk over him and that is an admirable trait.

Originally posted by TheHavok

Originally posted by Routver

You can stand up for your company/work without resorting to insults.

 

If in real life, every time you get a bad repercussion from your work, if you cry out loud "you disliked it because you freaking suck", would you expect to be taken seriously ever again? It's exactly what the CEO of Aventurine is doing, calling it a "fraud" and labeling it a "scandal" when he's the only one inflating the review and making all efforts to put it on the highlights, of course other sites are reporting it, but he must evaluate what he's saying when he's representing a whole company. "You reap what you sow" is how they call it.

My advice would be to keep a low profile about the review, ignoring it, so what, he rated it 2/10, if you have more upcoming reviews, and your product is great, what's bothering you? Creating all that fuss around EG just served to increase the amount of people browsing the gaming site, the Senior Editor must be loving Tasos and Ed for giving his website free advertising to a whole community.

 

Tasos wanted to discuss the review, but why not argue with facts around your game? Trying to discredit the reviewer sounds really unprofessional. Take it like a man. Or don't give accounts for reviews.

Routver, I understand your point and before the game was released I thought to myself when I read one of Tasos' interviews "Who the hell does this guy think he is?  Calling people trolls and saying that his game is better then everybody elses?"  I even made a thread talking about how unprofessional he seemed and how professional companies like Blizzard did not put up with such behavior, like in the case of Tseric.  But, as the game came closer to release, as the hype began to build and the hatred began to grow, and as I began to witness for the first time, an indie company releasing a game in the mmorpg market with this much publicity, whether bad or good, I began to think....hey good for you Tasos, the game really ISN'T vaporware.  VAPORWARE. My oh my, how that term, that was once thrown in every darkfall thread, has completely disappeared.  I guess in a way I felt sorry for Darkfall after awhile.  I guess I felt happy that the underdog came out ontop.  And guess what, people are still trying to bring Darkfall down, giving it 9:00 hours of gametime actually played, or 2:33 according to Tasos, and then publishing their unfinished review.  Well they got caught red handed.  Does this mean Darkfall is a good game?  No.  Does this mean Darkfall is a bad game?  Not exactly, but it begins to show that people that take into account the actions of the reviewer will begin to lean more towards the latter.  Tasos isn't going to let people walk over him and that is an admirable trait.

I am interested in reading what you have to say my friend, but please learn about the paragraph.

From your last sentence, I gather you feel Tasos was justified in his response. The folks with common sense, AKA: the trolls, say it is the way he went about it that isn't.

Originally posted by TheHavok

Originally posted by Routver

You can stand up for your company/work without resorting to insults.

 

If in real life, every time you get a bad repercussion from your work, if you cry out loud "you disliked it because you freaking suck", would you expect to be taken seriously ever again? It's exactly what the CEO of Aventurine is doing, calling it a "fraud" and labeling it a "scandal" when he's the only one inflating the review and making all efforts to put it on the highlights, of course other sites are reporting it, but he must evaluate what he's saying when he's representing a whole company. "You reap what you sow" is how they call it.

My advice would be to keep a low profile about the review, ignoring it, so what, he rated it 2/10, if you have more upcoming reviews, and your product is great, what's bothering you? Creating all that fuss around EG just served to increase the amount of people browsing the gaming site, the Senior Editor must be loving Tasos and Ed for giving his website free advertising to a whole community.

 

Tasos wanted to discuss the review, but why not argue with facts around your game? Trying to discredit the reviewer sounds really unprofessional. Take it like a man. Or don't give accounts for reviews.

Routver, I understand your point and before the game was released I thought to myself when I read one of Tasos' interviews "Who the hell does this guy think he is?  Calling people trolls and saying that his game is better then everybody elses?"  I even made a thread talking about how unprofessional he seemed and how professional companies like Blizzard did not put up with such behavior, like in the case of Tseric.  But, as the game came closer to release, as the hype began to build and the hatred began to grow, and as I began to witness for the first time, an indie company releasing a game in the mmorpg market with this much publicity, whether bad or good, I began to think....hey good for you Tasos, the game really ISN'T vaporware.  VAPORWARE. My oh my, how that term, that was once thrown in every darkfall thread, has completely disappeared.  I guess in a way I felt sorry for Darkfall after awhile.  I guess I felt happy that the underdog came out ontop.  And guess what, people are still trying to bring Darkfall down, giving it 9:00 hours of gametime actually played, or 2:33 according to Tasos, and then publishing their unfinished review.  Well they got caught red handed.  Does this mean Darkfall is a good game?  No.  Does this mean Darkfall is a bad game?  Not exactly, but it begins to show that people that take into account the actions of the reviewer will begin to lean more towards the latter.  Tasos isn't going to let people walk over him and that is an admirable trait.

It has nothing to do with Tasos allowing someone to walk all over him.  He owns a company and has a product.  YOu do not go on a mission to discredit someone like Tasos is doing if you are professional.

Look at Microsoft, how many people bash Windows?  Do you see Bill Gates out whining about it?

You have to expect the bad with the good and live with it, you will not please everyone and he should have just left it alone.

Yes he was absolutely right to stand against something he so strongly felt was a grave injustice. Emotionally and financially invested in this game, he took a bad review personally and fought fire with fire which is where he was absolutely wrong.

It was a poorly considered and self-defeating thing to do.

With the information he had about the time spent in-game, he should have thought how best to use it to the advantage of the game and all associated with it. In my opinion, a bit of humble-pie in a 'we disagree with your opinion but we accept your right to it' type response allied with asking for a re-evaluation a month down the line when more of the bugs are gone and some more content is added. The nature of the MMO is a constantly changing experience and this fact could have been used, along with the information about the first review, to reasonably expect a second day in court, so to speak.

But in dismissing the first review and laying out all the reasons why at the same time, all Tasos has done is burnt all his bridges with EG and with them any chance of turning the situation around so that he benefits from it.

He didn't think things through, didn't see the outcome of his own response would be to pretty much back everyone into a corner.

Tasos called MMORPG.com interviewer a Troll. Do you expect anything else?

Tasos is a great lesson in what not to do for PR if you are releasing an MMORPG. Aventurine should have hired a professional PR person/community representative a long, long time ago, and never let Tasos utter a peep about the game. I've never seen a bigger fiasco in an MMORPG release. Tasos is the story, not DF. That's not what you want when you release a game.

To be fair Eurogamer started with the insult first with their 2/10 review. I mean when a game gets that socre EG is bascially saying: The company should close down for relasing a scam and the player base are idiots for playing the game. I think the reaction, while not nesscarily "professional" ws the right response

Originally posted by xpiher

To be fair Eurogamer started with the insult first with their 2/10 review. I mean when a game gets that socre EG is bascially saying: The company should close down for relasing a scam and the player base are idiots for playing the game. I think the reaction, while not nesscarily "professional" ws the right response

There is nothing inaccurate about those 2 points you mentioned though, not sure where you are going with this.

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by xpiher

To be fair Eurogamer started with the insult first with their 2/10 review. I mean when a game gets that socre EG is bascially saying: The company should close down for relasing a scam and the player base are idiots for playing the game. I think the reaction, while not nesscarily "professional" ws the right response

 

There is nothing inaccurate about those 2 points you mentioned though, not sure where you are going with this.

That's your opinion, but based on EG's scoring policy, the game would have to be completly unplayable and closly resemble Mourning to get that low of a score.

Haha! Tasos got owned and QQs like a little bitch. Serves them right to be reviewed accurately for a change by Ed.

Now the DF crybabies sob and thrash,...it's good Ed made tasos cry.

 Standing up for yourself is fine.

Dismissing your flaws instead of taking criticism for what it is and improving is not fine.