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5/05/09 11:39:41 AM#41
Originally posted by daarco
Exactly! That what i ment. PvPers have more skill : ) And that was what Aventurine knew when they did DF. How would they do so a Quake player would feel a challence? Thank you.
So after, what... 2 or 3 posts of stating how you were merely referring to what Tasos said about PvP, but have no opinion yourself... you come out and say: daarc... one of the fundamental elements of having a debate is deciding your position on a subject, and then sticking to it. Flip-flopping back and forth and changing your statements the way you (and other fans here) do makes you look incredibly indecisive and dishonest.
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5/05/09 11:43:20 AM#42
Originally posted by WSIMike
So after, what... 2 or 3 posts of stating how you were merely referring to what Tasos said about PvP, but have no opinion yourself... you come out and say: daarc... one of the fundamental elements of having a debate is deciding your position on a subject, and then sticking to it. Flip-flopping back and forth and changing your statements the way you (and other fans here) do makes you look incredibly indecisive and dishonest.
+1, nice mike :) Playing: Not much actively. |
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egotrip
 Novice Member
Joined: 12/24/08
Never fear i am here and if you don't like it kiss my rear |
5/05/09 11:43:49 AM#43
Originally posted by daarco
Exactly! That what i ment. PvPers have more skill : ) And that was what Aventurine knew when they did DF. How would they do so a Quake player would feel a challence? Thank you. I think you kinda missed the point Terranah was trying to make, which i'm pretty sure is: that the FPS twitch combat that one finds in games like Quake is in Darkfall's case very poorly implemented thus not making the game challenging to a Quake player but quite the opposite Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray* |
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daarco
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 12/19/06
I have Darkfall now! |
5/05/09 11:48:47 AM#44
Originally posted by egotrip I think you kinda missed the point Terranah was trying to make, which i'm pretty sure is: that the FPS twitch combat that one finds in games like Quake is in Darkfall's case very poorly implemented thus not making the game challenging to a Quake player but quite the opposite
Exactly! They tryed to make it so good Quake players would feel a challence, but failed. Now we can go back to the OPs real question. Actually it was two things in the beginning. One that the devs tryed (notice i always use the word tryed) to make it for skilled PvPers and the other was about Tasos speaking about it : ) |
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5/05/09 11:54:21 AM#45
Why people keep embarassing themselves? |
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5/05/09 11:54:32 AM#46
Originally posted by daarco I think you kinda missed the point Terranah was trying to make, which i'm pretty sure is: that the FPS twitch combat that one finds in games like Quake is in Darkfall's case very poorly implemented thus not making the game challenging to a Quake player but quite the opposite
Exactly! They tryed to make it so good Quake players would feel a challence, but failed. Now we can go back to the OPs real question. Actually it was two things in the beginning. One that the devs tryed (notice i always use the word tryed) to make it for skilled PvPers and the other was about Tasos speaking about it : )
I was one of the best ranked UT players in the world. I get my ass kicked in Darkfall but thats because its not a shooter...obviously. Its a first person sworder.
and it obviously takes more skill than WOW in general because of the rock/paper/scissor mechanic besides the obvious lockdown of targets.
Who does not get this concept? |
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5/05/09 12:03:00 PM#47
Originally posted by Einstein-DF
It seems that you don't get the concept that that is a blatant buggering lie. The only classes that have a reasonable "stun lockdown=win" are paladins and rogues, at the moment, as Blizzard have reduced the usefulness of CC. So, yeah, try and get information before you post crap.
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5/05/09 1:00:06 PM#48
Originally posted by Devour
It seems that you don't get the concept that that is a blatant buggering lie. The only classes that have a reasonable "stun lockdown=win" are paladins and rogues, at the moment, as Blizzard have reduced the usefulness of CC. So, yeah, try and get information before you post crap.
You are absolutely correct and even then his argument is pretty flawed, he talks about skill like its some kind of absolute knowledge that applies to darkfall, while you dont need FPS combat skills to play WoW you do need other skills which are very relevant to positioning strategy, right use of skills so you can successfully defeat your oponent, as well as a being skilled in reading what will be your oponent's counter attacks, while I didnt like much the "e-sport" side of WoW when I use to play it, I acknowledge it did require preparation and skill to some degree to accomplish things such as getting gladiator the proof is really in the WoW ladder not everyone is rated 2.5k because some ppl are better than others. Following Einstein-DF logic with the best combination possible of classes and the game requiring no skill, it would mean that all teams would be at around the same rating (read rank) because of well the rock/paper/scissor effect but that is not the case so my advice to Einstein (which is an insult to the original really) is stop spouting out nonsense and making yourself look ignorant.
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5/05/09 1:07:45 PM#49
Originally posted by rav3n2
You are absolutely correct and even then his argument is pretty flawed, he talks about skill like its some kind of absolute knowledge that applies to darkfall, while you dont need FPS combat skills to play WoW you do need other skills which are very relevant to positioning strategy, right use of skills so you can successfully defeat your oponent, as well as a being skilled in reading what will be your oponent's counter attacks, while I didnt like much the "e-sport" side of WoW when I use to play it, I acknowledge it did require preparation and skill to some degree to accomplish things such as getting gladiator the proof is really in the WoW ladder not everyone is rated 2.5k because some ppl are better than others. Following Einstein-DF logic with the best combination possible of classes and the game requiring no skill, it would mean that all teams would be at around the same rating (read rank) because of well the rock/paper/scissor effect but that is not the case so my advice to Einstein (which is an insult to the original really) is stop spouting out nonsense and making yourself look ignorant. You're both missing his point by focusing on an individual word and not trying to get what he means from the context. When smartypants-DF says "lockdown", he's not referring to incapacitating the target - he's referring to locking on to the target. That's part of the difference of an FPS-style interface - you don't usually lock on to the target the way you do in a game like WoW by clicking on a target or pressing Alt to cycle through and lock on so you can mash different skill buttons. It's a completely different dynamic, and smartypants-DF is correct in pointing out that difference, whether you like the difference or not. So, in answer to his last question, the two of you should both raise your hands. |
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5/05/09 1:17:20 PM#50
Originally posted by bmdevine
You are absolutely correct and even then his argument is pretty flawed, he talks about skill like its some kind of absolute knowledge that applies to darkfall, while you dont need FPS combat skills to play WoW you do need other skills which are very relevant to positioning strategy, right use of skills so you can successfully defeat your oponent, as well as a being skilled in reading what will be your oponent's counter attacks, while I didnt like much the "e-sport" side of WoW when I use to play it, I acknowledge it did require preparation and skill to some degree to accomplish things such as getting gladiator the proof is really in the WoW ladder not everyone is rated 2.5k because some ppl are better than others. Following Einstein-DF logic with the best combination possible of classes and the game requiring no skill, it would mean that all teams would be at around the same rating (read rank) because of well the rock/paper/scissor effect but that is not the case so my advice to Einstein (which is an insult to the original really) is stop spouting out nonsense and making yourself look ignorant. You're both missing his point by focusing on an individual word and not trying to get what he means from the context. When smartypants-DF says "lockdown", he's not referring to incapacitating the target - he's referring to locking on to the target. That's part of the difference of an FPS-style interface - you don't usually lock on to the target the way you do in a game like WoW by clicking on a target or pressing Alt to cycle through and lock on so you can mash different skill buttons. It's a completely different dynamic, and smartypants-DF is correct in pointing out that difference, whether you like the difference or not. So, in answer to his last question, the two of you should both raise your hands.
No actually you are wrong if you took any time to read the posts which I dont think you did he does mention the rock paper scissor aswell so im just gonna go ahead and assume you read lock target and decided to only focus your argument on that when his argument is actually alot more broad, when he talks about skills. So when you dont understand a post read it all, and then re-read it, if you still dont understand read it again.
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5/05/09 1:20:21 PM#51
Originally posted by bmdevine
You are absolutely correct and even then his argument is pretty flawed, he talks about skill like its some kind of absolute knowledge that applies to darkfall, while you dont need FPS combat skills to play WoW you do need other skills which are very relevant to positioning strategy, right use of skills so you can successfully defeat your oponent, as well as a being skilled in reading what will be your oponent's counter attacks, while I didnt like much the "e-sport" side of WoW when I use to play it, I acknowledge it did require preparation and skill to some degree to accomplish things such as getting gladiator the proof is really in the WoW ladder not everyone is rated 2.5k because some ppl are better than others. Following Einstein-DF logic with the best combination possible of classes and the game requiring no skill, it would mean that all teams would be at around the same rating (read rank) because of well the rock/paper/scissor effect but that is not the case so my advice to Einstein (which is an insult to the original really) is stop spouting out nonsense and making yourself look ignorant. You're both missing his point by focusing on an individual word and not trying to get what he means from the context. When smartypants-DF says "lockdown", he's not referring to incapacitating the target - he's referring to locking on to the target. That's part of the difference of an FPS-style interface - you don't usually lock on to the target the way you do in a game like WoW by clicking on a target or pressing Alt to cycle through and lock on so you can mash different skill buttons. It's a completely different dynamic, and smartypants-DF is correct in pointing out that difference, whether you like the difference or not. So, in answer to his last question, the two of you should both raise your hands. The way he worded it IS hard to deduce that in reality. Anyone that played WoW wouldn't say "lockdown of target" to mean you don't have to aim. Which you still do, you can't hit them when they are behind a wall, you can't hit them if you are looking the other way, and you can't hit them if someone is stunning you (as what the two above thought he was referring to). Einstein seems to think you just hit Tab once, click 1 or 2 a couple times, and hit Tab again and 1 or 2 a few more times and you win. Both the people above general intent was to point out that logic is horribly flawed. You tried to demean them by saying they misunderstood what "lockdown of target" meant. Which to any WoW player means "CC" them... Einstein probably never played the game to understand that so he poorly communicated his message, and you defend him. So yes, it is a different dynamic, both of the people above agreed to that. But to say one dynamic is better than the other or takes more skill is a flawed and incorrect arguement, which YOU failed to grasp apparently. |
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5/05/09 1:31:16 PM#52
Originally posted by bmdevine
You are absolutely correct and even then his argument is pretty flawed, he talks about skill like its some kind of absolute knowledge that applies to darkfall, while you dont need FPS combat skills to play WoW you do need other skills which are very relevant to positioning strategy, right use of skills so you can successfully defeat your oponent, as well as a being skilled in reading what will be your oponent's counter attacks, while I didnt like much the "e-sport" side of WoW when I use to play it, I acknowledge it did require preparation and skill to some degree to accomplish things such as getting gladiator the proof is really in the WoW ladder not everyone is rated 2.5k because some ppl are better than others. Following Einstein-DF logic with the best combination possible of classes and the game requiring no skill, it would mean that all teams would be at around the same rating (read rank) because of well the rock/paper/scissor effect but that is not the case so my advice to Einstein (which is an insult to the original really) is stop spouting out nonsense and making yourself look ignorant. You're both missing his point by focusing on an individual word and not trying to get what he means from the context. When smartypants-DF says "lockdown", he's not referring to incapacitating the target - he's referring to locking on to the target. That's part of the difference of an FPS-style interface - you don't usually lock on to the target the way you do in a game like WoW by clicking on a target or pressing Alt to cycle through and lock on so you can mash different skill buttons. It's a completely different dynamic, and smartypants-DF is correct in pointing out that difference, whether you like the difference or not. So, in answer to his last question, the two of you should both raise your hands.
Of course I am talking about LOCKING ON THE TARGET as in WOW/ War/LOTRO/EQ etc etc etc.
Reading comprehension people, strive to achieve it..... |
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5/05/09 1:36:36 PM#53
Originally posted by Einstein-DF
Writing ability, man, is a much more useful skill.
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5/05/09 1:44:32 PM#54
Originally posted by Devour
Writing ability, man, is a much more useful skill. I understood it. I'm hoping (but cannot know for sure) that others understood it. Could it have been written more clearly? Most definitely. Did it absolutely need to be to allow comprehension? No. The real problem is attempting to disprove what others have written prior to comprehending what was written. That comes down to reading. If something is not clear, ask for an explanation. Then, when the explanation comes and it's clear that the person's wrong, bash away. Patience, young grasshopper... |
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5/05/09 1:44:39 PM#55
Originally posted by krieblood
Yeah well basically no auto aimer is the point to the average gamer part. Like use your brain a little i know it hard for you Ricky the Ret*rdo but WoW and all the clones they have auto aimers No matter how hard you try You will never out run a mages spell it will go threw tree's whatever length it must theres no avoiding it once ur under auto aim. ok it your brain processing that simple system ok dont want to over work you so just hold on with me here Rick. In darkfall you have to Aim??? omg yes Aim like in a FPS. now you might be hurting in the head thinking hmm but isnt that hard and not easy. and it is Harder then auto aim system which requires you to push 1 to 2 buttons while your targets highlighted in your range. its not a gear or lvl grind its a grind to get Skill. Now i know your mind thinks Skill like STR, DEX, Stam. No Skill as in playing and fighting skill actually being Good att he game not your weapon skill level or anything else that dosnt matter barely at all. So there you go Ricky i tried to break it down for someone like you to understand. i hope we didnt over work ya have fun in crayon drawling class Ricky. Errr.... WTF??? I just hope ENGLISH is not your first language. |
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5/05/09 1:50:39 PM#56
Originally posted by bmdevine I understood it. I'm hoping (but cannot know for sure) that others understood it. Could it have been written more clearly? Most definitely. Did it absolutely need to be to allow comprehension? No. The real problem is attempting to disprove what others have written prior to comprehending what was written. That comes down to reading. If something is not clear, ask for an explanation. Then, when the explanation comes and it's clear that the person's wrong, bash away. Patience, young grasshopper...
Hermm yeah but Lock Target was only ONE of his points and a secondary one if you read it carefully, he says "Besides..." and then talks about lock target, yet you make it sound like it was the ONLY thing it was being discussed the actual meat of this discussion is him claiming DF requires more skill than WoW which is not true.
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5/05/09 1:54:39 PM#57
In an MMO I click on someone, then press my hotkey (lets say... #2 for "big nuke that kills people")
in a FPS, I press my hotkey (lets say... #2 for "big gun that kills people") and then click on someone.
Honestly I think both are pretty easy. know what I think is hard? running a marathon in under 2 and a half hours. and thats just putting your right foot in front of your left foot a million times. so go run a marathon and then come back and tell me Darkfall is "hard" because really, from every review I've ever seen the only hard thing is making sure you are in the bigger group of gankers, and skill has zero place because everyone makes sure they are never in a fair fight. Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats. |
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5/05/09 1:55:31 PM#58
Originally posted by bmdevine
Lockdown and lock on are completely different things, and therefore there is no clarity in what the hell he wrote. It'd be perfectly understandable if he wasn't a Western, but apparently he's from New York. Also, anyone who has the sheer audacity to call themselves "Einstein" deserves a good beat down. I highly doubt he even knows what got Einstein the Nobel prize. Never mind the fact there is no real "rock, paper, scissors" gameplay, as some of the top Arena teams ( as in, highest in the current tournament ) have completely "WTF?!" team members, and yet are beating around 90,000 players.
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5/05/09 2:06:58 PM#59
Originally posted by Devour
Lockdown and lock on are completely different things, and therefore there is no clarity in what the hell he wrote. It'd be perfectly understandable if he wasn't a Western, but apparently he's from New York. Also, anyone who has the sheer audacity to call themselves "Einstein" deserves a good beat down. I highly doubt he even knows what got Einstein the Nobel prize. Never mind the fact there is no real "rock, paper, scissors" gameplay, as some of the top Arena teams ( as in, highest in the current tournament ) have completely "WTF?!" team members, and yet are beating around 90,000 players. Sorry, I have no idea what you mean by "'WTF?!' team members. Could you please explain? See? That's how you do it. No need to try to justify something that is unjustifiable. As to the Einstein comment, have you considered that Einstein is a surname that is shared by quite a few people? It wasn't just the name of one individual. It may not be his family name, but it very well could be. Heck, he could even be Al's grandson or great-grandson. Again you're being overly hasty and defensive. Patience, young grasshopper... |
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5/05/09 2:13:27 PM#60
Originally posted by bmdevine
Basically, classes / specs that are not considered to be "cookie" cutter in a team or for PvP. He's using one of the more famous pictures of Einstein, and his name is Einstein-DF? He should come in and quantify this, methinks. =p
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) as I could care one way or the other about the game. But wow man, your so called "Cons" of the game are just really a thinly veiled elitist, epeen stroking garbage.