Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by xzyax

There were some who indicated that names showing up on the list were confirmed NOT currently logged in.  

 

who? IIRC it was the opposite -- i remember testing whether clanmates i knew were offline showed up in that list and they didn't. so pretty sure it was concurrent players.

 

AFAIK that list was removed cause people were using it to find out who/how many of their enemies were online or not.

 

in any case it certainly shows that the guy above who claimed only 1500 online was lying through his teeth.

Actually, I remember reading about what xzyax is talking about. People pretty much established that the number was for total characters made.

Do we know if that is truly the case? Probably not but at this point it's the best guess we have.

Originally posted by javac 

according to you guys, what's true or not stems ONLY from whether said statement is pro- or anti-darkfall (ie: anti-darkfall means the poster is 100% credible, pro-darkfall means lies/paid company shill etc).

 

 

Pot meet kettle.

Do any of you play the game? Open the >Journal > then Clans, start adding the numbers next to each groups name.  You'll get a number around 10,000, and remember, that number won't include the solo players.

Originally posted by panchoe

Do any of you play the game? Open the >Journal > then Clans, start adding the numbers next to each groups name.  You'll get a number around 10,000, and remember, that number won't include the solo players.

That's a great idea, Panchoe!  I'd assume most players are in clans, since the game heavily favors them, so that should give a pretty good baseline for clan membership, at least, unless it only counts online players.  That should be easy to verify, though.  Anybody care to take a stab at it?

~Ripper

Originally posted by panchoe

Do any of you play the game? Open the >Journal > then Clans, start adding the numbers next to each groups name.  You'll get a number around 10,000, and remember, that number won't include the solo players.

I doubt there are many solo players. Also, those numbers could also be skewed with clans that have inactive/no-longer playing people.

So basically, Javac is wrong. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Originally posted by rhinok

Originally posted by panchoe

Do any of you play the game? Open the >Journal > then Clans, start adding the numbers next to each groups name.  You'll get a number around 10,000, and remember, that number won't include the solo players.

 

That's a great idea, Panchoe!  I'd assume most players are in clans, since the game heavily favors them, so that should give a pretty good baseline for clan membership, at least, unless it only counts online players.  That should be easy to verify, though.  Anybody care to take a stab at it?

~Ripper

Unless I'm mistaken that is where the more "sane" estimate of around 10k-15k number comes from.

There is really only one person trying to establish that the number is 20k-40k.   Even mods on DarkFall's own official forum put the number around 13k.  As long as Aventurine is able to keep replacing the subs that quit or get banned... they should be able to keep the 1 server up and running.

Unless something drastically changes though, I don't foresee them getting another server online and running anytime soon.  Guess we'll have to wait and see what the next few months bring. 

Originally posted by Benthon

Originally posted by panchoe

Do any of you play the game? Open the >Journal > then Clans, start adding the numbers next to each groups name.  You'll get a number around 10,000, and remember, that number won't include the solo players.

 

I doubt there are many solo players. Also, those numbers could also be skewed with clans that have inactive/no-longer playing people.

 

So basically, Javac is wrong. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Rather than point fingers, let's see if we can get somebody to take the time to provide an honest count and verify whether or not the counts are based on online members or not.  Honestly, my bigger concern in all of this is to get an accurate representation of the percent of the population that cheats.  As I've stated in my other posts, the amounts banned and the total identified is lower than the customer base for just one cheater product and there are two major products I know of.  Those banned don't include macro cheaters (unattended and loot macroers, for example),  either.  So, add all of the estimated cheaters together (it's at least 300 for just the cheat programs, maybe as high as 600 for the two combined) and compare that to the number and you have a pretty good estimate of the number of just the third-party cheaters.  Add in some estimated figures for the macro cheaters, which seems to be pretty high, according to the official boards, and you've got a much better idea of the estimated total percent of cheaters in the game.  Based on everything I've seen so far, that percent is pretty high, which is troubling for such a competitive pvp-based game.  Here's an example:

300 cheaters - product 1

300 cheaters - product 2

300 cheaters - macros (just a guess)

-----------------------------------

900 cheaters / 13k players (based on Signus' number until we can get something confirmed) = 7% cheaters, which basically means 1 in 14 players is cheating in some manner, either by using one of the two cheat products or by macro cheating...  That's very troubling in a game like Darkfall and needs to be addressed ASAP, if true.

Anybody who's a true fan of the game should be concerned about cheating, in general, but especially if it's to such a large extent.

~Ripper

Originally posted by Benthon

Originally posted by panchoe

Do any of you play the game? Open the >Journal > then Clans, start adding the numbers next to each groups name.  You'll get a number around 10,000, and remember, that number won't include the solo players.

 

I doubt there are many solo players. Also, those numbers could also be skewed with clans that have inactive/no-longer playing people.

 

So basically, Javac is wrong.

Yep,

I just contacted a co-worker I played Darkfall with and asked him next time when he logs on to see if it still shows me in the guild, etc. He said he didn't need to check and that he was looking at the roster last night and I was still in there and we have about 35 inactive people it looks like.

So even those numbers will not indicate anything other how many accounts Aventurine has sold in the last 9 weeks Darkfall has been out..! This games future looks so bleak that even the hardcore fanbois aren't even discussing or demanding more information on Tasos's boisterous lip-service about new servers...etc.

Most of this community realizes that Darkfall has hit it's peak and no additional servers are coming, no additional content is coming and the broken skill tree will not be fixed in due time. So, what that most players will grow weary of an unfinished game and simply move back to their real FPS games (Battlefield 2 or Heroes beta) or try out free games like Chronicles of Spellborne (which coincidentally is so good, that it's free to download and play before you buy..!)

Needless to say, the Darkfall community will continue to decline while other similar games have renewed interest and beta activity. Knowing this is inevitable and that this game has a very short life span, why would anyone continue to play and develop a character that will be unaccessible in just a few short months?? There is just no way Aventurine can sustain their monthly bills with so few and shrinking subscriptions.

It's unfortunate and laughable at the same time, given Tasos Flambouras's comments over the past 6 months!
 

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by rageagainst

But the game was a gigantic disapointment, and it can only fall from here, and not grow, since public interest is waning in it, not growing.

 

...only if your expectations were unrealistically high from the start...

 

for the most part, DF met or exceeded my expectations. graphics and environment were better than i expected, melee combat was worse than i expected, the speed with which DF went from clusterfuck release to stable, fun and politically complex was also a unexpected surprise.

It's still a cluster of a release.  The ordering process hasn't changed from release, the server stability has only improved marginally and still doesn't support the large scale seiges the game is built around. 
Politically complex?  What's complex about having a clan allied with another clan?  Nothing.  Not to mention that a very small portion, and I mean an overwhelmingly small portion, of the player base is even involved in the politics.  You, and some others, keep throwing politics in game out like it's someo sort of feature that everyone will be a part of.  NO, you won't.  Not unless you have a clan, are the clan leader or high ranking officer, and trying to get a city/ hamlet or trying to hold onto territory.  The very vast magority of the playerbase will have NOTHING to do with politics in game.   WTF, only a few people in the clan can even open the gate to the city!  I love being locked out of my clans city because there isn't anyone on that can open a friggin gate for me.

 

i feel sorry for those who were disappointed by DF, but really, the info for the game was all out there, and the spin was almost all grassroots generated (though most blame tasos, not themselves for reading too much into the various DF announcements), and let's face it, these people are also likely to be disappointed by other games too, not just DF.

Wait, you mean that you as a beta tester weren't spewing off the same garbage about the game being great and ready for release.  That they were going to turn on the mob spawns after beta was over, that a lot of the features were just turned off during beta and that they would be on when the game release? 

Yes, you were one of those guys.
It's not just Tasos's fault.  It's your fault as well, and every other beta tester that hyped the game as being more then it was.  I don't blame Tasos, I blame the community for misinforming and lying about the state of the game.  You guys didn't come here and tell use that 90% of what is supposed to be in game wasn't there.  You didn't tell us that there was no content.  You told us it was the best MMO out there, that it was more fun then anything else you could play right now.  You guys lied and mislead us.  Don't put that on Tasos.

And you're right.  I have been disapointed by other games.  Like AoC, but not because it was lacking most of it's features or that the game didn't run stable for me.  It ran fine for me in fact, it had most of it's features, I just didn't like the combat system; so it wasn't that big a deal.  

 

WAR & AoC were bigger disappointments by and large than DF by far. for me, DF has delivered on its promise of PVP sandbox in spades.

Says you.
WAR had it's features in place when it came out.  Nobody hyped WAR has having dozens of other mechanics that weren't actually there.  It released and was exactly the game it said it would be. 
Darkfall was supposed to be feature complete.  It's not even close to that.  The magority of the stuff that the features page lists as being a part of the game are no where in sight. 

And DF isn't a sandbox.  It's a classless, skill based system.  There isn't a lot to do in game, and most of the things you would expect outside of not having to choose a class to play aren't available in the game.  You can't be whatever you want to be, and using your imagination, as one mod suggested we should be doing, doesn't make it a sandbox either.  I can RP in any MMO, I don't need DF to do that.

 

i agree that the general gamer interest is fading, but that's not a bad thing for DF. as is clearly evident, there are more than enough people who want to play that kind of game to sustain DF for some time to come yet, and like EVE, there will be a tipping point some time in the future where the rough edges of DF that do exist are removed/improved, new content added, more mechanics added, etc where the general public's interest in DF will swing back.

General interest fading isn't bad?
I guess with all the PHD you've got, a business degree isn't counted amoung them.  A general decline in interest after 2 months for a game that utilizes rather expensive server architecture isn't a good thing.  It's a very bad thing.  If general interest is fading and continues to fade, what do you expect to happen to the player base?  DF isn't going to be a game that can survive with 20k subs, especially not with the massive amounts of dev. that's needed to get this game were it's feature page implies it should be; not with server architecture that's gotta cost in the millions, and def. not with an engine that's unlikely to be sellable to any worthwhile company.

 

that said, DF is still the 3rd most popular MMO visited on mmorpg.com for the past month, and 2nd most popular MMO for the past 6 months. with $0 marketing.

Popular or notorius?
Just because it's visited often here doesn't mean squat.  Try looking at the things people write about the game here.  Don't need to be the smartest guy on MMORPG.com to see that the magority of the people coming here and posting don't actually like the game.

You think that thier website is free?  It's not, and that's how they are marketing the game.  With a website that gives a completely dif. depiction of the game they released.

 

 

Bravo! Bravo on a excellent post. Sadly...Javas still dosnt get it...he still cant seem to grasp a really simple concept...
 

Originally posted by Anvil_Theory

It's unfortunate and laughable at the same time, given Tasos Flambouras's comments over the past 6 months!
 

More like the last 6 years

Ok here comes Javac to prove you wrong AT.

He should any  minute throw out his 40K subscriber number arrived at by his superb logic and the huge number of PHDs he holds.

Originally posted by Anvil_Theory

Originally posted by Benthon

Originally posted by panchoe

Do any of you play the game? Open the >Journal > then Clans, start adding the numbers next to each groups name.  You'll get a number around 10,000, and remember, that number won't include the solo players.

I doubt there are many solo players. Also, those numbers could also be skewed with clans that have inactive/no-longer playing people.

 

So basically, Javac is wrong.

Yep,

I just contacted a co-worker I played Darkfall with and asked him next time when he logs on to see if it still shows me in the guild, etc. He said he didn't need to check and that he was looking at the roster last night and I was still in there and we have about 35 inactive people it looks like.

 ...

So, that's confirmation that the guild roster counts all members, active or not, logged in or not.  We still need to get the total count.  Granted, in light of AT's information, the number won't list all active subscribers, but it's a good place to start and will give us a much closer baseline figure.

~Ripper

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by rageagainst

But the game was a gigantic disapointment, and it can only fall from here, and not grow, since public interest is waning in it, not growing.

 

...only if your expectations were unrealistically high from the start...

 

for the most part, DF met or exceeded my expectations. graphics and environment were better than i expected, melee combat was worse than i expected, the speed with which DF went from clusterfuck release to stable, fun and politically complex was also a unexpected surprise.

It's still a cluster of a release.  The ordering process hasn't changed from release, the server stability has only improved marginally and still doesn't support the large scale seiges the game is built around. 
Politically complex?  What's complex about having a clan allied with another clan?  Nothing.  Not to mention that a very small portion, and I mean an overwhelmingly small portion, of the player base is even involved in the politics.  You, and some others, keep throwing politics in game out like it's someo sort of feature that everyone will be a part of.  NO, you won't.  Not unless you have a clan, are the clan leader or high ranking officer, and trying to get a city/ hamlet or trying to hold onto territory.  The very vast magority of the playerbase will have NOTHING to do with politics in game.   WTF, only a few people in the clan can even open the gate to the city!  I love being locked out of my clans city because there isn't anyone on that can open a friggin gate for me.

 

i feel sorry for those who were disappointed by DF, but really, the info for the game was all out there, and the spin was almost all grassroots generated (though most blame tasos, not themselves for reading too much into the various DF announcements), and let's face it, these people are also likely to be disappointed by other games too, not just DF.

Wait, you mean that you as a beta tester weren't spewing off the same garbage about the game being great and ready for release.  That they were going to turn on the mob spawns after beta was over, that a lot of the features were just turned off during beta and that they would be on when the game release? 

Yes, you were one of those guys.
It's not just Tasos's fault.  It's your fault as well, and every other beta tester that hyped the game as being more then it was.  I don't blame Tasos, I blame the community for misinforming and lying about the state of the game.  You guys didn't come here and tell use that 90% of what is supposed to be in game wasn't there.  You didn't tell us that there was no content.  You told us it was the best MMO out there, that it was more fun then anything else you could play right now.  You guys lied and mislead us.  Don't put that on Tasos.

And you're right.  I have been disapointed by other games.  Like AoC, but not because it was lacking most of it's features or that the game didn't run stable for me.  It ran fine for me in fact, it had most of it's features, I just didn't like the combat system; so it wasn't that big a deal.  

 

WAR & AoC were bigger disappointments by and large than DF by far. for me, DF has delivered on its promise of PVP sandbox in spades.

Says you.
WAR had it's features in place when it came out.  Nobody hyped WAR has having dozens of other mechanics that weren't actually there.  It released and was exactly the game it said it would be. 
Darkfall was supposed to be feature complete.  It's not even close to that.  The magority of the stuff that the features page lists as being a part of the game are no where in sight. 

And DF isn't a sandbox.  It's a classless, skill based system.  There isn't a lot to do in game, and most of the things you would expect outside of not having to choose a class to play aren't available in the game.  You can't be whatever you want to be, and using your imagination, as one mod suggested we should be doing, doesn't make it a sandbox either.  I can RP in any MMO, I don't need DF to do that.

 

i agree that the general gamer interest is fading, but that's not a bad thing for DF. as is clearly evident, there are more than enough people who want to play that kind of game to sustain DF for some time to come yet, and like EVE, there will be a tipping point some time in the future where the rough edges of DF that do exist are removed/improved, new content added, more mechanics added, etc where the general public's interest in DF will swing back.

General interest fading isn't bad?
I guess with all the PHD you've got, a business degree isn't counted amoung them.  A general decline in interest after 2 months for a game that utilizes rather expensive server architecture isn't a good thing.  It's a very bad thing.  If general interest is fading and continues to fade, what do you expect to happen to the player base?  DF isn't going to be a game that can survive with 20k subs, especially not with the massive amounts of dev. that's needed to get this game were it's feature page implies it should be; not with server architecture that's gotta cost in the millions, and def. not with an engine that's unlikely to be sellable to any worthwhile company.

 

that said, DF is still the 3rd most popular MMO visited on mmorpg.com for the past month, and 2nd most popular MMO for the past 6 months. with $0 marketing.

Popular or notorius?
Just because it's visited often here doesn't mean squat.  Try looking at the things people write about the game here.  Don't need to be the smartest guy on MMORPG.com to see that the magority of the people coming here and posting don't actually like the game.

You think that thier website is free?  It's not, and that's how they are marketing the game.  With a website that gives a completely dif. depiction of the game they released.

 

 

 

it's patently obvious that you don't get what sandbox MMOs are about. you also sound pretty carebearish. i suggest you try one of the themepark games as that's clearly more up your alley. i don't get why the hell you're in the Darkfall forums.

 

WAR exactly what was advertised? pff, that's why the number of subs has more than halved since release to sub 300K despite Mark's sub predictions of 3mill. so delusional, it's funny.

YOU need to return to the DFO forums...we...let me repeat it for you, since you appear so simple minded...WE, will enjoy discussing DF here, while you return to your warren.
 

Discussing the game on the merits of the information available, and based on the observations of the people whom have played is our goal, why are we here? Curiousity...why are you here? To act as  a lying shill...see the diff? You do not belong...now if you stopped lying trying to defend the undefensible, and stopped pulling facts and figures out of your arse all the time...well see you MIGHT JUST ... be able to have a discussion about the game.

One last note Javas, according to a number of threads on the OFFICIAL DFO forums, players are lamenting the exodus of what is now termed the "sheep", these are the harvesters/crafters that the wolves NEED to fuel the game. It appears the game is so hard core...that the player base has now begun cannibalise itself, lol, couldnt resist. The point however is its clear from information on the DFO official forum the player base has shrunk dramatically enough for this to merit considerable discussion.

To conclude, by lying you do a great disservice to the game. The fact that you do not understand this leads me to believe you have some sort of issue that interferes with logical thought. The game NEEDS to be promoted honestly, not via lies, you and a number of other fanbots here have done more to sour my perception of the game then any other factor. So once again, stop with the lying shill bit, you arnt fooling anyone, and start honestly discussing the game, thats what this forum is for, not fanbot central.

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by Fariic

 How are you coding anything?  You spend your work hours posting here, when do you have time to do coding. 
My best friend is a programmer and barely has the time to send me a text while he's at work.

 

maybe he doesn't like you? ;-)

 

you get your busy times and your lazy ass times, boss is on holidays so for now it's the latter.

So you only work when the boss is watching? People like you are the reason companies fail.

Originally posted by Raknar

So you only work when the boss is watching? People like you are the reason companies fail.

lmao. i don't work for a company. my boss is out of the office/country 75% of the time; i travel to different countries about once a month and i am effectively my own boss. i work longer hours than i'm paid for every week. and if you don't think everyone occasionally takes it easy from time to time at work i have a big tall glass of reality juice to sell you.

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by Raknar

So you only work when the boss is watching? People like you are the reason companies fail.

 

lmao. i don't work for a company. my boss is out of the office/country 75% of the time; i travel to different countries about once a month and i am effectively my own boss. i work longer hours than i'm paid for every week. and if you don't think everyone occasionally takes it easy from time to time at work i have a big tall glass of reality juice to sell you.

You have a boss, that boss owns a buisiness, that buisiness is called a company.  Drink your own juice.

You know, I really don't think anyone believes a thing you write, nor do I think anyone actually cares. 
Being a security guard in a parking garage browsing the internet in a cheap laptop is probably closer to your reality; hence your compultion to boast about 4 phd's and being the smartest guy on the interwebs.

BTW, were did you get the figure that "thousands are joining the DF website weekly"?
And how exactly does that have anything to do with subs?

i dont know the exact number but i am guessing its close to what the server can hold (otherwise they would open the shop more often).  As for how big the servers are...only the company who provides the servers (maybe) and Aventurine know the capacity.

As a wild guess i would say...under 5000

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by Raknar

So you only work when the boss is watching? People like you are the reason companies fail.

 

lmao. i don't work for a company. my boss is out of the office/country 75% of the time; i travel to different countries about once a month and i am effectively my own boss. i work longer hours than i'm paid for every week. and if you don't think everyone occasionally takes it easy from time to time at work i have a big tall glass of reality juice to sell you.

 

You have a boss, that boss owns a buisiness, that buisiness is called a company.  Drink your own juice.

You know, I really don't think anyone believes a thing you write, nor do I think anyone actually cares. 
Being a security guard in a parking garage browsing the internet in a cheap laptop is probably closer to your reality; hence your compultion to boast about 4 phd's and being the smartest guy on the interwebs.

BTW, were did you get the figure that "thousands are joining the DF website weekly"?
And how exactly does that have anything to do with subs?

Honestly, let me stop you right there. I was the one that said "I don't care if you have 4 phD's..." as an exaggeration to point out that education does not equal intelligence. He actually only has 1 phD from his own words so I don't want to contribute to misinformation about my friend, javac.
 

Originally posted by Cereo

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by Raknar

So you only work when the boss is watching? People like you are the reason companies fail.

 

lmao. i don't work for a company. my boss is out of the office/country 75% of the time; i travel to different countries about once a month and i am effectively my own boss. i work longer hours than i'm paid for every week. and if you don't think everyone occasionally takes it easy from time to time at work i have a big tall glass of reality juice to sell you.

 

You have a boss, that boss owns a buisiness, that buisiness is called a company.  Drink your own juice.

You know, I really don't think anyone believes a thing you write, nor do I think anyone actually cares. 
Being a security guard in a parking garage browsing the internet in a cheap laptop is probably closer to your reality; hence your compultion to boast about 4 phd's and being the smartest guy on the interwebs.

BTW, were did you get the figure that "thousands are joining the DF website weekly"?
And how exactly does that have anything to do with subs?

Honestly, let me stop you right there. I was the one that said "I don't care if you have 4 phD's..." as an exaggeration to point out that education does not equal intelligence. He actually only has 1 phD from his own words so I don't want to contribute to misinformation about my friend, javac.
 

Could care less, nor did I get it from you, nor was I trying to be accurate.
I've read threads of his were he's brought up having PHD's as if it means anything in a gaming forum.
 

He's also posted that, "he's the smartest guy on mmorpg.com", and then proceeded to call others, "stupid".

Damn near every thread this guy enters turns into him degrading into an I'm better then you arguement, and it's disgusting.

His was the comment that his estimate of 40k subs was the only one that was close to correct and therefore it's the one everyone should agree on.

It's a god complex, and it makes it impossible to have a normal discussion whenever he comes along because it's impossible to have a reasonable, intelligent debate when someone of that mentallity adheres to the I'm superior and therefore right mode of thinking and debating. 

I believe he himself may have actually posted in a thread some time ago that he had multiple PHD's. 
I think it may have been in an off topic thread.  I'm probably wrong though. 

So, are any actual players willing to count and document the number of clan members and provide screen shots?  Someone who genuinely cares about the game, it's integrity and it's players  should be interested in as accurate a count of players as they can find, because it will help ascertain the total percent of cheaters from the population.

~Ripper

Yeah his phd is right up there with the 40k subs he imagined.

Isn't it funny after calling him out on EVERY thread he lied in, he all of asudden changed his tune to boast about how much smarter he is then everyone. Then called him out on his cheating then all of a sudden he is an avatar of truth and justice.

It's too late, people already see through your lies, I'm sorry you need to lie on the internet to make yourself feel better about yourself. Its sad. Stop trolling and flaming other forum members because you are angry at life, it's making you look worse and worse everyday, especially getting on different accounts to "lol" at your own posts.