It's funny how many people who hate F2P actually hate it for not being 100% free, and complain because they dont want to have to pay anything. Seriously, do you really think you would download and play a game for absolutely no cost at all?

In P2P you need to pay to have access to the game, and in F2P you can access the game but you need to pay to play it fully. Not to mention that most game companies are kind enough to let you acquire the cash shops items through player shops or rare drops in game too.

Stalinfalcon... wtf are you jabbering about? That big wall of text reads like a conspiracy theory.

That aside, you seem to think that playing a game over a longer term is a bad thing. I don't quite get the reasoning behind that.

My absolute reason for prefering a P2P game over an F2P game is one thing alone.

Quality of Entertainment.

That beind said, it's the same reason I would use for prefering a P2P game over a P2P game. Or an F2P game over an F2P game.

Hell, it's the same reason I would use to prefer ANY game to any other game, period.

Because IT IS A GAME. I think most people pick up a game with one reason in mind. To have fun. Not to be the best.

That comes later IF you enjoy the game and feel it's worth sinking time into achieving whatever goal you have in mind BECAUSE it's fun.

I played a certain P2P game (yes THAT one) for over 4 years, and have recently quit. True, I got bored of it and may even have decided it was heading in a direction that took out some of the fun for me personally. But it was, indeed, after 4 years. In terms of money put in and entertainment got out I don't consider it a money sink. In reality, it was, compared to other forms of entertainment, inexpensive and f**king awesome value. I don't regret having spent a penny of it.

TBH your criticism of P2P games trying to "leech out as many months of subs as possible" sound like the game you would be most happy with is one you pay an arm and a leg for up front and then pops up a screen saying "Congratulations! You are the most awesomest player and have won the game!" so you can move along swiftly to the next pile of dog turd without wasting any of that precious time er... having fun.

I've tried many F2P MMO games and my main criticism is that they don't hold up to the gameplay standard I demand of an MMO.

My general experience has been that they suffer from stability or latency issues to varying degrees as the norm rather than the exception and that they tend to be repetetive and generic well beyond anything I've seen in any good P2P game. At the end of the day, I've not tried an F2P game that held my attention or drew me in enough for me to stick it out beyond a week or two.

The only exception I'd really note for F2P games in general is Quake Online. But again, I think this proves my point, gameplay will outweigh how you "pay" or it's technical brilliance.

If an F2P MMO can EVER rival it's counterparts in the P2P leagues in terms of gameplay, then by all means, bring it on, but I've yet to find anything even close.

Originally posted by mgrave

This entire discussion is completely rediculous.  Like many I have played around 15 subscription MMO's over the years, but also roughly the same amount of F2P ones.  Obviously there is a graphical barrier between the two, but not a gameplay one.  Almost never do you have to buy items in order to be competitive.  What the business model does is offer a free game to play (which I cannot comprehend how that his a bad situation) and the oportunity for those who really would like extra customization to get that for small fees.  How does having variety in the genre equal a threat to P2P MMO's?  This mindset baffles me.  Before Meridan 59 all the MO games were pay by the HOUR, not sub based, and just beacuase something is the norm doesnot mean that it is right (flat earth theory anyone).  If you could play WOW for free and let people who want to pay for gender changes, hairstyles, tatoos, custimizable armor colors, how in the world could that possibly be a bad thing.  This is EXACTLY how the majority of F2P MMO's opperate.

In my experience with F2P, I find what you said to be incorrect! F2P item malls are not  about the customizable armors, characters, etc, although they may include those options.. No sir, the the F2P item malls are mainly about items that give enhanced experience, HP, Mana, attack, magic, and other skills.  Which is why the ruin the experience for many that do not wish to pay for those advantages.

Originally posted by mgrave

This entire discussion is completely rediculous.  Like many I have played around 15 subscription MMO's over the years, but also roughly the same amount of F2P ones.  Obviously there is a graphical barrier between the two, but not a gameplay one.  Almost never do you have to buy items in order to be competitive.  What the business model does is offer a free game to play (which I cannot comprehend how that his a bad situation) and the oportunity for those who really would like extra customization to get that for small fees. 

 

If you could play WOW for free and let people who want to pay for gender changes, hairstyles, tatoos, custimizable armor colors, how in the world could that possibly be a bad thing.  This is EXACTLY how the majority of F2P MMO's opperate.

This is exactly how I feel. Yes their are fees to get more armor or weapons or mounts or whatever. BUT is it that big of a deal to pay for it in small fees while letting casual players play for free compared to just forcing everyone to pay for your game? That's why I just play trials of P2P games because that's as close to them as I'm ever going to get to them. While F2P I can leave whenever I want join whenever I want do whatever I want and not pay a dime if I don't want to.

Originally posted by Kyleran

But one other factor that hurts coverage is that their very category, F2P seems deceitful to most people.

Let's face it, no one creates a game to really be played for free. 

From extra content, to better gear , to simple fluff items, they all try hard to separate the player from his money, and sometimes at much higher rates than a typical P2P.

Basically F2P is based on Deception and Lying to players.

Originally posted by Flummoxed

Originally posted by Kyleran

But one other factor that hurts coverage is that their very category, F2P seems deceitful to most people.

Let's face it, no one creates a game to really be played for free. 

From extra content, to better gear , to simple fluff items, they all try hard to separate the player from his money, and sometimes at much higher rates than a typical P2P.

 

Basically F2P is based on Deception and Lying to players.

 @ Flummoxed; Prove it, otherwise it's you who is using deception and lies to inform other players.

I played them both: p2p and f2p (UO, DAOC, EQ2, WAR, AOC, rappelz, AO etc etc).

My current game is Atlantica online and i must say it offers a lot of gameplay for "free": apart from the usual grind to 120, you can play in pvp competitions, or watch others play, bet on matches, gamble for equipment enchantments, make quiz rooms, pvp against other servers, do dungeon runs with guilds or nations, etc. The game has a mail system, a nice help guide..should i go on? Basically it comes close to the last p2p game i played in terms of content, WAR.

It is true that i will never be the number 1 pvp guy on the server, simply because i dont pay for the best gear (it can be done without paying real money but that involves too much time that i simply have not spare).

But i have a great time playing the game. And thats what counts for me.

One major drawback that i especially see in f2p games: the community seems to alter every day. Tough for guilds to build up something. One day you have 50 members, next day 30 of them moved on to the next "free" game. As such f2p games for me personally feel like single player games where you can chat.

Originally posted by Manarix

One major drawback that i especially see in f2p games: the community seems to alter every day. Tough for guilds to build up something. One day you have 50 members, next day 30 of them moved on to the next "free" game. As such f2p games for me personally feel like single player games where you can chat.

They come out at such a high rate that this happens very often. And the funny thing is, is that the next big "free" mmo, is always JUST like the one they just left with perhaps maybe a new art style and skills (Shaiya and Tantra for example..)

And this is probably one of the main reasons F2P's are never taken seriously (besides gold farming and easy to hack clients), the population is so spread out and disconnected with the actual world that people are not usually around for long and if they are you get the feeling that it will not be for long. How do you spread the MMORPG population (people who play them) among 500 F2P games that all offer the same things?

Originally posted by Vyeth

How do you spread the MMORPG population (people who play them) among 500 F2P games that all offer the same things?

Very carefully?

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Kyleran

But one other factor that hurts coverage is that their very category, F2P seems deceitful to most people.

Let's face it, no one creates a game to really be played for free.  They all are designed to somehow get you to spend your cash in their item shop (or pay a montly sub fee) and do so by enticing you with many offers.

From extra content, to better gear , to simple fluff items, they all try hard to separate the player from his money, and sometimes at much higher rates than a typical P2P.

 

Are there really people over the age of 17 on this planet that actually thought otherwise?

I think there are indeed some companies who launch a F2P just on the purpose to offer the chance for a certain amount of players to play for free without having the final goal to take the advantages of them.
Because if you keep staying in a F2P game, you always have a choice to decide if you want to pay or not, even when you have already consumed its service in a gratis way (so I think the mocks after being in a F2P is kind of malicious, I don’t know if you dare to admit that)
Although some said subscription is always a more successful model, but it’s rarely to hear that people could get reimbursement after having paid.
The positive function of  F2P users should not be keeping mocking that they are getting exploited, on the contrary, they should know how important they are to keep staying and supporting that F2P game, so a good F2P game could keep vital.
 

F2P can't be escaped. There's already some F2P titles that have just as big of a player base as WoW and other P2P communities. It's out with the old and in with the new. People like the idea that they don't have to pay money if they don't want. Most people get the wrong idea and think it's pay to win because in reality a lot of F2P games make it able for you to get all the godly items with in-game money i.e. Grand Fantasia, Runes Of Magic, Perfect World. People are just lazy and don't feel like doing the work for the items. Yes, While I agree that a lot of F2P's are fail there are also some hard hitters. P2P offers the same exact problems that F2P offers and actually P2P offers problems that are even more annoying. Not every game is good because it has a montly sub. The community can get demanding and it could ruin awesome aspects of the game(like WoW). You need to realize that things change, it's part of life, get over it. F2P is here to say and people better start realizing this. Now with the hybrid games it's gonna come intot he P2P world as well.