I've seen on the main boards (the boards where only active subscribers can post) that AoC subscriptions (in their view) are up above 200,000, and might even be around 280,000.  

Now I have a question about this: 

200,000 subscribers would mean, at $15 a pop, 9 million dollars in revenue for a quarter.  Yet Funcom's revenue for Q1 isn't going to be anywhere near that.   And that would assume that Funcom doesn't earn a SINGLE dollar from Anarchy Online or for any box sales.   Lol.  Of course with average subscriptions being more than $15, and because Funcom has other sources of revenue, subscription are far below this.  If Funcom comes in above guidance you might convince me they have 150,000 subscriptions.  Instead, don't be surprised when the number is closer to 6.5 million dollars US.

And if that is the current population (instead of the retroactive population Jan-March) , when Funcom gives its guidance, how will supporters explain the guidance coming in a few million dollars short? 

This is simple math folks. 

Lit

Who the heck is insane enough to think funcom has 200k-300k subscribers :S

Funcom still have some revenues from AO afaik, but that isn't the biggest if numbers.

No one should explain anything to you Litigator

People who enjoy Age of Conan will be playing it and if someone notice new players in the server he/she plays he/she will express it here to share it with people who also enjoy the game and have a good time, maybe build a good community too.

People who have a good time in a MMO will not care about those numbers, it will not change the experiences they have ingame, if you are so obsessed about an answer, send this message to Funcom, they are the only ones who should care about what you said, if it is real.

...

If someone decides to support a game by not defending the content, but instead highlighting the game's growth, then it is fair game.

Fact is, a lot of people make their MMO buying decisions based on a growing community.  It is Funcom's best interests to release a meme into the gaming community that the game is growing.  But in the interest of actual gamers, if such rumours are false, they deserve to be outed.

And unfortunately for Funcom, its balance sheet does not lie. 

Litigator, I can be wrong, but it seems AOC players "defend" or talk about the game talking about its content, graphics, music, classes and atmosphere, usually people who are "against" the game are the ones talking about numbers.

...

Originally posted by LitigatorAB

And unfortunately for Funcom, its balance sheet does not lie. 

Could you link this information? As the company is publicly traded, and you seem to already have this information, could you share that?

Thanks

Originally posted by LitigatorAB

If someone decides to support a game by not defending the content, but instead highlighting the game's growth, then it is fair game.

Fact is, a lot of people make their MMO buying decisions based on a growing community.  It is Funcom's best interests to release a meme into the gaming community that the game is growing.  But in the interest of actual gamers, if such rumours are false, they deserve to be outed.

And unfortunately for Funcom, its balance sheet does not lie. 

I can tell you that the populations on the servers I play on are growing, the current state on the EU servers etc Im not sure on. I also could care less about Sub#s. Set,Wiccana,Tyranny,Cimmeria are all very healthy and growing and would provide newcomers with whatever grouping/guild activities they would want to be involved with.

If the populations are high enough to have a few servers for each ruleset (for US) then thats all I care about really. I don't need 75 servers just like mine to have a good time.

If Funcom does continue to lose money, AoC will lose resources etc, thats the only reason it sometimes worries me... but then again, Aion will be out before thats a concern.

Originally posted by Umbral

No one should explain anything to you Litigator

People who enjoy Age of Conan will be playing it and if someone notice new players in the server he/she plays he/she will express it here to share it with people who also enjoy the game and have a good time, maybe build a good community too.

People who have a good time in a MMO will not care about those numbers, it will not change the experiences they have ingame, if you are so obsessed about an answer, send this message to Funcom, they are the only ones who should care about what you said, if it is real.

 

...

this....don't understand why people care what others play or how well their game does. If the game is fun for the player, then it doesnt matter what anyonelse thinks

AoC do seems to be growing but nowhere near that speed, 280K is far to much.

But and that is a big but, the thing that got them most of the new players are probably the free trial they finally got going and that was just a month ago so it wont really affect that report very much.

Personally I think AoC is somewhere between 125K and 200K.

Originally posted by LitigatorAB

I've seen on the main boards (the boards where only active subscribers can post) that AoC subscriptions (in their view) are up above 200,000, and might even be around 280,000.  

Now I have a question about this: 

200,000 subscribers would mean, at $15 a pop, 9 million dollars in revenue for a quarter.  Yet Funcom's revenue for Q1 isn't going to be anywhere near that.   And that would assume that Funcom doesn't earn a SINGLE dollar from Anarchy Online or for any box sales.   Lol.  Of course with average subscriptions being more than $15, and because Funcom has other sources of revenue, subscription are far below this.  If Funcom comes in above guidance you might convince me they have 150,000 subscriptions.  Instead, don't be surprised when the number is closer to 6.5 million dollars US.

And if that is the current population (instead of the retroactive population Jan-March) , when Funcom gives its guidance, how will supporters explain the guidance coming in a few million dollars short? 

This is simple math folks. 

Lit

 

Fail post.

Ok let's talk about simple math. According Litigator a bad first quarter means a loss of subscribers? In that case Activision's analyst are reporting a first quarter earnings per share of .03 cents compared to .12 for last year that is a 25% loss!

Does that mean WoW is doing bad or losing 75% of its subscribers? No.

There are ALOT of factors in business when it comes to guidance and revenue, please learn how to read a company's balance sheet, cash flow sheet, and income statement before making an absurd forecast on any company. Everything from debt due to stockholder Equity plays a major factor in a company's revenue for a quarter.

We are in a global economic downfall. Companies that are doing amazing and exceeded analysts' growth expectations still had their stock prices plummeted by the economy panic. It doesn't mean that they are doing bad, it just means they are a victim of panic.

I am not saying Funcom is or isn't lying

I am just saying YOUR MATH is wrong and generic. Link me Funcom's balance sheet, cash flow statement, income statement and conference call between the board of directors and shareholders AND THEN I WILL BELIEVE YOU.

Without knowing what form of accounting Funcom uses you can't even begin to make a generic statement such as the original post.

Originally posted by Alexander26

Originally posted by LitigatorAB

If someone decides to support a game by not defending the content, but instead highlighting the game's growth, then it is fair game.

Fact is, a lot of people make their MMO buying decisions based on a growing community.  It is Funcom's best interests to release a meme into the gaming community that the game is growing.  But in the interest of actual gamers, if such rumours are false, they deserve to be outed.

And unfortunately for Funcom, its balance sheet does not lie. 

 

I can tell you that the populations on the servers I play on are growing, the current state on the EU servers etc Im not sure on. I also could care less about Sub#s. Set,Wiccana,Tyranny,Cimmeria are all very healthy and growing and would provide newcomers with whatever grouping/guild activities they would want to be involved with.

If the populations are high enough to have a few servers for each ruleset (for US) then thats all I care about really. I don't need 75 servers just like mine to have a good time.

If Funcom does continue to lose money, AoC will lose resources etc, thats the only reason it sometimes worries me... but then again, Aion will be out before thats a concern.

From what I have seen on Fury EU server the population is growing, wouldn't say by huge amounts but I do see many new names in chat and such.

  I don't really know the numbers myself but I'm seeing a huge spike in population numbers on my two servers. My guild has grown quite a large bit over the last 2 months. PVP seems to be picking up quite a bit. This is of course my opinion.

Originally posted by LitigatorAB

I've seen on the main boards (the boards where only active subscribers can post) that AoC subscriptions (in their view) are up above 200,000, and might even be around 280,000.  

Now I have a question about this: 

200,000 subscribers would mean, at $15 a pop, 9 million dollars in revenue for a quarter.  Yet Funcom's revenue for Q1 isn't going to be anywhere near that.   And that would assume that Funcom doesn't earn a SINGLE dollar from Anarchy Online or for any box sales.   Lol.  Of course with average subscriptions being more than $15, and because Funcom has other sources of revenue, subscription are far below this.  If Funcom comes in above guidance you might convince me they have 150,000 subscriptions.  Instead, don't be surprised when the number is closer to 6.5 million dollars US.

And if that is the current population (instead of the retroactive population Jan-March) , when Funcom gives its guidance, how will supporters explain the guidance coming in a few million dollars short? 

This is simple math folks. 

Lit

 

I'm not an AoC player, but who pays for the 1-month sub price on any MMO anymore? I would assume that the 3 month sub price is about  $13-$14 a month and the 6 month sub even less? So, the $15 month figure is always a tad unrealistic.

Also, keep in mind that FunCom had a revenue increase of about 33M over the past year. (investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/financials/financials.asp)

Now, if your talking about earnings (net profit) - yeah .. the company is being hit hard. They are now being taxed at a higher rate because of the increased revenue, they have a very large operations expense and have a bit of debt. 33M per year when spread between the government, payroll, operations, IT and creditors is not very much when you think about it.

There is much, much more on whether a company is sucessful or not than the product or service it sells.

---

Originally posted by LitigatorAB
I've seen on the main boards (the boards where only active subscribers can post) that AoC subscriptions (in their view) are up above 200,000, and might even be around 280,000.  
Now I have a question about this: 
200,000 subscribers would mean, at $15 a pop, 9 million dollars in revenue for a quarter.  Yet Funcom's revenue for Q1 isn't going to be anywhere near that.   And that would assume that Funcom doesn't earn a SINGLE dollar from Anarchy Online or for any box sales.   Lol.  Of course with average subscriptions being more than $15, and because Funcom has other sources of revenue, subscription are far below this.  If Funcom comes in above guidance you might convince me they have 150,000 subscriptions.  Instead, don't be surprised when the number is closer to 6.5 million dollars US.
And if that is the current population (instead of the retroactive population Jan-March) , when Funcom gives its guidance, how will supporters explain the guidance coming in a few million dollars short? 
This is simple math folks. 
Lit
 

---

Not sure if this matters but the european sub costs 15 euro. That's a good 19.5 dollars. Not sure if US or EU has more players but that should make even more than 9 million dollars.

Originally posted by Nevulus

Originally posted by LitigatorAB

I've seen on the main boards (the boards where only active subscribers can post) that AoC subscriptions (in their view) are up above 200,000, and might even be around 280,000.  

Now I have a question about this: 

200,000 subscribers would mean, at $15 a pop, 9 million dollars in revenue for a quarter.  Yet Funcom's revenue for Q1 isn't going to be anywhere near that.   And that would assume that Funcom doesn't earn a SINGLE dollar from Anarchy Online or for any box sales.   Lol.  Of course with average subscriptions being more than $15, and because Funcom has other sources of revenue, subscription are far below this.  If Funcom comes in above guidance you might convince me they have 150,000 subscriptions.  Instead, don't be surprised when the number is closer to 6.5 million dollars US.

And if that is the current population (instead of the retroactive population Jan-March) , when Funcom gives its guidance, how will supporters explain the guidance coming in a few million dollars short? 

This is simple math folks. 

Lit

 

Fail post.

Ok let's talk about simple math. According Litigator a bad first quarter means a loss of subscribers? In that case Activision's analyst are reporting a first quarter earnings per share of .03 cents compared to .12 for last year that is a 25% loss!

Does that mean WoW is doing bad or losing 75% of its subscribers? No.

There are ALOT of factors in business when it comes to guidance and revenue, please learn how to read a company's balance sheet, cash flow sheet, and income statement before making an absurd forecast on any company. Everything from debt due to stockholder Equity plays a major factor in a company's revenue for a quarter.

We are in a global economic downfall. Companies that are doing amazing and exceeded analysts' growth expectations still had their stock prices plummeted by the economy panic. It doesn't mean that they are doing bad, it just means they are a victim of panic.

I am not saying Funcom is or isn't lying

I am just saying YOUR MATH is wrong and generic. Link me Funcom's balance sheet, cash flow statement, income statement and conference call between the board of directors and shareholders AND THEN I WILL BELIEVE YOU.

Without knowing what form of accounting Funcom uses you can't even begin to make a generic statement such as the original post.

 

I'm still waiting for the balance sheet, income statement, cashflow statement, and conference call between the board and shareholders. The OP has quoted that the "balance sheet doesn't lie" but I have yet to see him show a link. 

And while we are at it please tell me the form of accounting Funcom has used that guided your balance sheet analysis. I do this for a living. I know how to calculate debt due, stockholder equity, and international exchange rate, etc.

I'm tired of seeing people lie and make false accusations on games just to start a troll/flame war on a game they dislike. Yes, I was very upset when AoC launched and they misled their fanbase. I made a few posts here & there and just stopped giving Funcom my money. Recently I tried AoC again and was very impressed with all the modifications they made. I still hate the use of instances, but I applaud their effort. It could be worse, it would be Guild Wars (I have no idea how people consider that a MMO).

I recently played Darkfall, I was double billed, dealt with horrendous customer support, seen many hackers/exploiters, encounterd numerous bugs, and encountered the worse player community ever (think about Barrens chat on steroids) and you don't see me making some topic bashing the game nonstop. There are already enough topics like that, I just added my 2 cents here and there to them all with FACTS.

The bottomline is that server pop is mere speculation.

Who cares, if there is people enjoying the game then let them. As a consumer, when I browse the forum as research for a new game, I already know that server population is nothing but speculation when stated by users. And even if  the company itself told me "hey we have 1 million subs" I am still weary as we all have been lied to by gaming companies before (EQ2, AoC, Darkfall, etc etc).

So give it a break already and stop fighting lies with more lies.

Originally posted by Forumfall

 

 

Not sure if this matters but the european sub costs 15 euro. That's a good 19.5 dollars. Not sure if US or EU has more players but that should make even more than 9 million dollars.

Does that include VAT?

Funcom will present 1 q figures on May 15th. Until then we dont know anything more than what was presented on February 23. So there is no info available at the moment except for insider.

Financial calendar
http://www.newsweb.no/newsweb/search.do?messageId=223874

Feb 23 presentation (4quarter figures, e.g. 31 december 2008)
http://www.newsweb.no/newsweb/search.do?messageId=229408 

Litigator AB came in before the 4q results and started bashing Funcom financials on these forums. My guess then was that he has som alterior motive. Either to short sell the stock or to buy cheap now and sell after the presentation

Note that Funcom stock is currently traded at about cash levels, meaning that if you buy Funcom at the current price you get a lot of cash and the rest of the organisation + all the games, for FREE! The reason for this is ofcourse the enormous dissapoitment AoC was to the market. They were hoping for a million subs while they now have priced the company as AoC has no subscribers. Guess what, if the 1q figures and guidance comes in above expectations (which are extremely low) then the stock will soar.

edit spelling
edit the nick stuff, mistake

eh my opinion is population is pretty flat. Probably gaining some with the trials and losing some from boredom but overall I think the population is pretty close to what it was at the end of November.

I am also curious to see the May report, but the one in November will be far more interesting I would think.

Looking forward to the report 15. may. That would be 1quarter 09?

For the revenue part you have to exlude the boxsales, income from plutolife and AO income.

When analyzing the the income to determine at what range subscriberbase of AoC is you must also take into considiration that the growth/decline in subs may have comed in late quarter and you prob just will find average for the 3 months in 1q. And we do not know how much of the subscriber cost goes to funcom and what do get scimmed off on the way(shared billing system)  

Originally posted by LitigatorAB

I've seen on the main boards (the boards where only active subscribers can post) that AoC subscriptions (in their view) are up above 200,000, and might even be around 280,000.  

Now I have a question about this: 

200,000 subscribers would mean, at $15 a pop, 9 million dollars in revenue for a quarter.  Yet Funcom's revenue for Q1 isn't going to be anywhere near that.   And that would assume that Funcom doesn't earn a SINGLE dollar from Anarchy Online or for any box sales.   Lol.  Of course with average subscriptions being more than $15, and because Funcom has other sources of revenue, subscription are far below this.  If Funcom comes in above guidance you might convince me they have 150,000 subscriptions.  Instead, don't be surprised when the number is closer to 6.5 million dollars US.

And if that is the current population (instead of the retroactive population Jan-March) , when Funcom gives its guidance, how will supporters explain the guidance coming in a few million dollars short? 

This is simple math folks. 

Lit

 

Oh look it's the quarterly pulling numbers out of your ass because you can't interpret a quarterly report post. Haven't seen one of these in three months. Hows that whole "Funcom is going broke" thing working out for you these days?