Originally posted by Wharg0ul

wow....listen to all the people who have never played the game telling us all how it is.

None of you have any idea, yet you vent off at the mouth like you are some veteran player.

All you have is assumptions, based on the rantings of the biased trolls that infest this place.

What is Darkfall?? It is a simulated medieval world. All of the behavior that you would expect in a barbaric, primitive world is here.

It is not a magical phantasy world with marshmellows and rainbows. It is a barbaric environment. Yeah, you have some rampant PKs (Reds), but in any environment where people are allowed this degree of freedom, you are bound to have criminals. This doesn't mean that the whole populatin is like this, and it doesn't mean that you are getting killed every ten minutes....IF YOU ARE SMART.

I personally havn't died in a couple days now, and I sure as hell never have problems crafting in peace. I keep my eyes out when harvesting, traveling, farming mobs, etc, and I never turn my back on anyone. I never let myself get to low health or stamina...in short, be alert, and never let my guard down. Never present a position of weakness. I bank my stuff often, so that when I DO get killed, I don't lose much, and nothing I can't easily replace.

in Darkfall, you are expected to either adapt to the brutal environment, or leave. Whining is not tolerated.

Just look at this thread, and most others that pertain to this game on this site. What you see is a bunch of people whining at the very THOUGHT of a game that they've never even played.

And I'm sure that some of them are going to respond telling me that I'm "mean", or "insulting", etc. That's ok, it just re-enforces my point. They are thin-skinned and over-sensitive...and the very THOUGHT of playing in a "risk vs reward" atmosphere makes them take to the forums in....herds.

 

 

As Kyleran has said we all know this, after all, ffa pvp is not new to us.  Its actually the first major MMO ever UO.  So we do not need to play it in order to understand it or talk about it.  Many of us have been thru this 10 years+ ago.
 

Now that we know what DF is, and what DF is not, many of us choose not to play it, or in your word, leave it alone.  We will talk about it casually, as a game of its sort, and what strength and weakness it will bring to the table.  This is not whining, this is what this board is about.

Originally posted by Kyleran 

Its something I've sort of suspected, and reading this thread really started to crystalize it for me, and your post really drove the point home.

Despite what the Devs/fans have long said, DF is more a game about what you can't do, and not what you can.  As long as you want to play the game the way you and the others do, with non-stop warfare at all times, then you are golden, DF is for you.

But if you want a true sandbox environment/world  where all paths are possible, I don't see DF really being that game afte rall.

 

Very well spotted Kyleran.

For me, the core of a sandbox game is about adding new and expanding existing content and giving people as many occupational options as possible (aka. game content). This is something that CCP has grasped fairly well, as they often add completely new content to their game with their expansions. The major trick is, that the new content in little to no way effect the possibility and enjoyment of already existing content. This is contrary to the way expansions in WoW dramatically decrease the value of old content when new is added.

Though, even in EVE we have many players who in their mindlessness believe that the way to go for balancing and "expanding" the game is through limitation and removal of content, especially when it is content they themselves do not dabble with, but somehow still feel give others an "unfair" advantage. Luckily CCP has a broader perspective than that.

In the case of Darkfall I simply do not see any possible playstyle outside of bashing in other peoples head, as fun as that might be. There might be a little game content not directly related to combat PvP, but the FFA combat aspect simply overrule everything else. That is not sandbox at all to me.

Originally posted by Jowen

Originally posted by Kyleran 

Its something I've sort of suspected, and reading this thread really started to crystalize it for me, and your post really drove the point home.

Despite what the Devs/fans have long said, DF is more a game about what you can't do, and not what you can.  As long as you want to play the game the way you and the others do, with non-stop warfare at all times, then you are golden, DF is for you.

But if you want a true sandbox environment/world  where all paths are possible, I don't see DF really being that game afte rall.

 

Very well spotted Kyleran.

For me, the core of a sandbox game is about adding new and expanding existing content and giving people as many occupational options as possible (aka. game content). This is something that CCP has grasped fairly well, as they often add completely new content to their game with their expansions. The major trick is, that the new content in little to no way effect the possibility and enjoyment of already existing content. This is contrary to the way expansions in WoW dramatically decrease the value of old content when new is added.

Though, even in EVE we have many players who in their mindlessness believe that the way to go for balancing and "expanding" the game is through limitation and removal of content, especially when it is content they themselves do not dabble with, but somehow still feel give others an "unfair" advantage. Luckily CCP has a broader perspective than that.

In the case of Darkfall I simply do not see any possible playstyle outside of bashing in other peoples head, as fun as that might be. There might be a little game content not directly related to combat PvP, but the FFA combat aspect simply overrule everything else. That is not sandbox at all to me.

In a broader sense, a direct extension of kyleran's observation, DF is more a game about who won't care for, than a game who will be attracted to.  Those players who do not want nasty communities, cheap talks and self imposed "heroes" will simply turn away.  Even the few unwary who stumbled upon it will flee very shortly.  DF is not a game about attracting, but about turning away.  Only those who took pride in being the nasty and behaving nasty will temporarily take refuge there, trying to wave a flag and feel big b/c for a while they feel they own a game to their own.
 

For the average rest, you cannot trust no one, not even your guildies, you can only trust those you would trust in RL.  Why do I need to play an online game with people I know and trust online?  and only them.  I could meet them in the bar or central park, or bbq with them in my backyard.

For the average players, DF is a game in which you cannot do whatever you want to do, unless you got solid escort, and are free from ambushes and ....  If it takes so much effort just to do the mundane things, its frustrating for most.  Its a game, I wonder how many want to be turtored in a game to feel achievements?  And what achievements?  Just a pixel in an online game?  For the same efforts in work I can get so much more.  Do I want to go thru the same torture again after hours?

For the average players, you cannot just about play anything without the consent of the community.  So you are at the whim of the community.  In Eve, there is at least a reasonably coherent community to keep some form of games possible.  In DF, you know who the players are, I need not say it again.  You have to pay me twice my salary to keep me associated with them.  For my fat salary, I can still choose to work with ppl miles ahead of the DF community, and I got paid.

Its like many nasty ffa pvp games.  Unregulated ones.  At the end of the day, there are just so many nasty guys willing to camp an empty zone and/or pk each other.

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

wow....listen to all the people who have never played the game telling us all how it is.

None of you have any idea, yet you vent off at the mouth like you are some veteran player.

All you have is assumptions, based on the rantings of the biased trolls that infest this place.

What is Darkfall?? It is a simulated medieval world. All of the behavior that you would expect in a barbaric, primitive world is here.

It is not a magical phantasy world with marshmellows and rainbows. It is a barbaric environment. Yeah, you have some rampant PKs (Reds), but in any environment where people are allowed this degree of freedom, you are bound to have criminals. This doesn't mean that the whole populatin is like this, and it doesn't mean that you are getting killed every ten minutes....IF YOU ARE SMART.

I personally havn't died in a couple days now, and I sure as hell never have problems crafting in peace. I keep my eyes out when harvesting, traveling, farming mobs, etc, and I never turn my back on anyone. I never let myself get to low health or stamina...in short, be alert, and never let my guard down. Never present a position of weakness. I bank my stuff often, so that when I DO get killed, I don't lose much, and nothing I can't easily replace.

in Darkfall, you are expected to either adapt to the brutal environment, or leave. Whining is not tolerated.

Just look at this thread, and most others that pertain to this game on this site. What you see is a bunch of people whining at the very THOUGHT of a game that they've never even played.

And I'm sure that some of them are going to respond telling me that I'm "mean", or "insulting", etc. That's ok, it just re-enforces my point. They are thin-skinned and over-sensitive...and the very THOUGHT of playing in a "risk vs reward" atmosphere makes them take to the forums in....herds.

Hence why I despise it. If AV wanted to create an environment for all the people who want to be e-baddasses in a virtual world, then they've surely succeeded. When it comes to creating an actual game that brings entertainment(And not the kind that borders on masochism) and depth, then they've missed the mark by miles.

Originally posted by Jowen

...

...

In the case of Darkfall I simply do not see any possible playstyle outside of bashing in other peoples head, as fun as that might be. There might be a little game content not directly related to combat PvP, but the FFA combat aspect simply overrule everything else. That is not sandbox at all to me.

This part is worth some discussion.

When the list of features of DF were first announced, the game is much more than that, well it seems.  DF was marketed as a game with PVP and PVE, and allowing full loot ffa pvp.  This about makes it simialr in style to a ffa pvp EQ server, with the game mechanics designed with a view to pleasing pvp more.

Now that DF is released, they have only implemented a rudimentary ffa pvp with full loot.  They even have to remove en masse, the npcs, to allow enough free handles for a few thousand players.  What that amounts to is, they basically release an empty box in which everyone has a stick and bash each other.  Everything else is so trivial that the focus is perma-pvp.

If the game has a viable and survivable core of pve activities, some pvers will start working on those content and might integrate with the pvp community.  Say SWG type of crafting, or whatever that floats the boat.  A safe house in the wilderness, free from reckless pvper, will begin a totally different sting of activities.  You can camp my house all you want, but if I can do some decent gaming inside my house, say weapon research and crafting, then pve exist, however primitive.

But no.  AV has so little core developed, that the only core released is pvp.  No one can do anything and there is nothing else you can do, unless pvp allows it.  The contribution from the pve side is so marginal that the pvpers will no bother respect the pvers, and when the more modest gamers left the game, or never bother sub, all we have left is a community of players whose only activities is bashing each other non stop.  Which, to me, is worse form of gaming than street fighter.

In a way, DF is just a street fighter game, with a bigger map, equally empty, but lacking the fluid flow of action of street fighter.  And street fighter is 20 years old already.

Originally posted by Spoonpott

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

wow....listen to all the people who have never played the game telling us all how it is.

None of you have any idea, yet you vent off at the mouth like you are some veteran player.

All you have is assumptions, based on the rantings of the biased trolls that infest this place.

What is Darkfall?? It is a simulated medieval world. All of the behavior that you would expect in a barbaric, primitive world is here.

It is not a magical phantasy world with marshmellows and rainbows. It is a barbaric environment. Yeah, you have some rampant PKs (Reds), but in any environment where people are allowed this degree of freedom, you are bound to have criminals. This doesn't mean that the whole populatin is like this, and it doesn't mean that you are getting killed every ten minutes....IF YOU ARE SMART.

I personally havn't died in a couple days now, and I sure as hell never have problems crafting in peace. I keep my eyes out when harvesting, traveling, farming mobs, etc, and I never turn my back on anyone. I never let myself get to low health or stamina...in short, be alert, and never let my guard down. Never present a position of weakness. I bank my stuff often, so that when I DO get killed, I don't lose much, and nothing I can't easily replace.

in Darkfall, you are expected to either adapt to the brutal environment, or leave. Whining is not tolerated.

Just look at this thread, and most others that pertain to this game on this site. What you see is a bunch of people whining at the very THOUGHT of a game that they've never even played.

And I'm sure that some of them are going to respond telling me that I'm "mean", or "insulting", etc. That's ok, it just re-enforces my point. They are thin-skinned and over-sensitive...and the very THOUGHT of playing in a "risk vs reward" atmosphere makes them take to the forums in....herds.

 

Hence why I despise it. If AV wanted to create an environment for all the people who want to be e-baddasses in a virtual world, then they've surely succeeded. When it comes to creating an actual game that brings entertainment(And not the kind that borders on masochism) and depth, then they've missed the mark by miles.

 

 

That is why kyleran says, DF is a game about what you cannot do.

That is why I extend kyleran's word into, DF is a game about who won't want to try it out.  Anyone seeking any form of entertainment other than going out nake and bashing each other silly with starter club, will go look for another game.

Can't say I despise it, but i will not take it as a job, meaning, even if I am paid twice my current salary (which is fat), I still won't play it.  The DF community is much worse than the bad "clients" i run into in my daily business hours.