You can have my stuff from:

UO,

EQ,

DAOC,

EQ2,

Eve,

Wow,

Ryzom,

Vanguard,

Darkfall

because I think I'm giving up on this Genre for the foreseeable future.  As I write this I'm asking myself: Why am I bothering to write this.....and ultimately its for my own closure. I have no expectations from this community.  However, I must say that I have enjoyed , and proabably will continue to enjoy, the threads on mmorpg.com. I came here from EQ2's failure to rekindle the cooler aspects of Eq1.....as I watched Vanguard go from pre alpha to where it is today (I still say Vanguard is a better sequel to Eq1 than EQ2 and you should play Vanguard if you like old EQ......its not perfect but its the best out there imho).

This genre started out as an extension of PnP DnD with THACOs and AC's and dungeons.  Some of my most memorable experiences in an mmo come from Dungeon Shame, Dungeon Deceit, Mistmoore Castle, The Estate of Unrest, and one of my favs ever - The Tower of Frozen Shadow.

Back then it was all about freedom.  I could go to these places and risk death and the reward was exploration.  I remember how emmersive it was to be in the basement of unrest and hearing the footsteps of the ghouls on the floor above.  I remember the being charmed in TOFS and running around training the mobs and feeling something from the experience.  I for one thought the Pok books were really, really cool.  I was a relative latecomer to EQ1 but having those books where I could "fly" up to EQ's version of Olympus and then re-decend back down to material planes.....and The Grey....what a place.  Despite the name I rarely did quests in EQ and UO had none back in the day.  Task driven content is something new and something many of you seem to enjoy.  I for one hate being dragged by the nose around the world.

I'm a pretty smart guy and I have done some analysis as to why the current crop of mmos do nothing to rekindle the feelings of old.  Its actaully a complex answer that is not attributed to a single factor.  However, I am able to summarize why this genre fails me in 2009.

-The commercialization of MMO's has turned out to be horrible for the genre.....period.  These mmos are obviously a business and their aims are to attract as many players as possible.  The problem is my gaming style is obsolete.  I don 't do vent, I don't have time to group for the entireity of my gaming session to enjoy the best the game has to offer. I need to go afk to change the Dora DVD or make sure my kid has his homework done right or whatever.  This genre appeals to a younger crowd or to men /boys who dont have / bother with / family responsibilities. (Sorry females no offense but you are clearly the minority).  I enjoy text chatting and I am capable of reading it in all forms.  I HATE hearing a lvl 50 Warrior sound like a kid who hasn't hit puberty yet.....sorry.

- The Rosetta stone of MMO gaming that has made WoW so much money is something all developers now follow.  The very fact there is  a model is part of the creative problem.  Every game has a con system that lets you see if a mob is suposed to be group or solo. Every mmo has task driven drivel for the solo gamer and all "dungeon content" is geared towards groups.  I can't tell you how many times I headed to SolB to do my own thing and then encounter other lone wolfs doing the same. This used to be HOW i met new people in game.   Now you do not even set foot in the dungeon without having your Healer/DPS/Tank combo set up.

-The mmorpg  lingo discuists me. I hate how every cliche phrase that originates from wow enters into mainstream internet lingo.  It makes me puke a little bit each time when I see the stupid trendy catch phrases appear all over the place.  I have always been the type of person that does NOT watch MTV, or CNN and popular cutlure generally makes me ill.  I now have more fun watching Carl Sagan DVD's then I do reading Barrens Chat....by a factor of a gooelplex.

-I don't seem to share the same opinions as many of you, clearly. Look at WoW and the other AAA or even AA titles out there.  This genre and I have grown apart because I do not seem to fit into the defacto status quo. So rather then look for games that meet my partially meet my interests I think I'm just going to give up outright, I'm done chasing the rainbow of the next big release.   I have never really ever had any problems balancing my real life responsibilities  with my gaming recreation (except maybe in the very beginning).  So I don't consider myself a problem gamer but since this genre fails to entertain me its time to find something else do to like model airplanes or something.

-I'm tired. I'm tired of being told that what I want is the 'first kiss' cliches. Its simply untrue. What I want is a massive multiplayer onling ROLEPLAYING game where there is some semblance of dnd style extra world feel. The words themepark and sandbox are both misnomers and have lead us all astray. So, to all of you cool folks on the forums best of luck I hope you enjoy your games.  To all you self centered, egotistical, narrow minded morons....thanks for being entertaining with your total lack of intelligence. 

- There used to be a unique relationship between monlthy subscriber and the devleoper because tehy knew that in order to keep you paying your monthly fee they had to give you something special.  Look at Adventurine as an example for how thats being handled now.  Your time doesn't mean jack shit to these assholes....remember that.  They don't care about you or your time or your experience.

-The lack of creativitiy and innovation (go look up the word innovation) is solely on the backs of developers and publishers (as a collective).  They choose to continue to develop C++ applications built on a template rather then trying something new.

- I hate the cliche pvp crowd.  I believe they are a conceputal  extension of competitive players but anonymous and unaccountable. In hockey you got the penality box, in Basketball you got fouls.  I do not think that pvp has a place necessairly in MY definiion of a MMORPG because human beings tend to do things in games for no other reason other then can and developers have failed to balance this since long term murder counts. Some people just really enjoy being assholes because they need to make up for some other shortcoming in their life.   They are always the ones griefing the character template DESIGNED to be fodder and are always the ones denying it.  The modern notion of pvp will always overshadows any "honest" pvp battle. 

Now that i have done that I guess I feel better. 

If i have any advice to anyone who may be  less experienced than I in this genre my final bit of advice to you is: dont settle and dont pay developers  to rip you off.  If you do find a game and a style that you like, support it.

Never buy a game without a trial. Never buy a game without a trial. Never buy a game without a trial.

Camp check, Train to zone ,Fly safe, GG , fade to black......at least for now, lfg no more.

So basically WoW is the root of all MMO evil.

Can't say I agree. But good luck on your mmo-less vacation however long it may be. ;)

May I point out you say you've never had a problem managing your gaming with your real life, except in the very beginning.... That is true to the majority of WoW or any mmo player as well except for a smaller few. The smaller few is bigger now because the genre is mainstream. It's always an adjustment period when things get way popular, you're no longer in your niche and things don't feel the same. Does this mean the genre dies? No, it changes it adapts and before you know it the old stuff you used to love comes back either the same or some other version. It's the same for music or anything that people love in entertainment.

Someone with basic logic training will find flaws in this but:

A = Wow

B=  main Stream

C = me

A = B <> c

Popular culture ruined this genre.

While I may not be an old school EQ / UO MMO player, I do feel a bit of the same with how WoW has taken a game and treated it like a business which has killed a majority of the fun of the game. I realize that they are a business and need to make money, but you don't have to beat the game to death to get the mindless zombies to join the game. All they need to do is make the game as good as it was at release and people would just play.

Originally posted by Rekindle

Someone with basic logic training will find flaws in this but:

 

A = Wow

B=  main Stream

C = me

 

A = B <> c

 

Popular culture ruined this genre.

I added stuff, but yes you liked being a snowflake, or in a category of snowflakes.

I feel your pain.

I few points about your post:

You state that you really enjoyed EQ which you were almost always required to group to survive and gain xp.

You then complain about having to group to enjoy the 'the best the game has to offer" in the current MMO model???

I will agree with you on the immaturity level of the more popular games (WOW, Warhammer,etc) and the inherent evil of humans in  PVP FFA type games (Darkfall).

If you want to try a great MMO with a great storyline, mature gamers and updates/new content every three months I highly recommend Lord of the Rings Online.

eq did not force you to group.  The newer content like in pop did but there were PLENTY of places to bang off levels solo. You had many more options back then. Now its quest grind kill x fedex bs solo or group up to do the real content.

there's no comparison imo.

I'll agree, the mainstreaming of MMO's and modern technology (voice coms) has dramatically changed the MMORPG gaming experience. The thing is, OP didn't change.

I understand this, I miss the challenge (ok, call them timesinks) that the older games had at times, but then again, not having to rest for 2-3 minutes after a strong fight has a certain appeal to it which is why most games take this path now.

Sure, during that downtime we used to do other things, chat with our group mates, read a book, level another character, but I'm not sure I'd really appreciate those "features" in a game anymore.  Why do I say this? Because those features are still available in the older games, and just like the OP, I'm not playing them.

Sure, OP can say thats because no one else is there, but we know that's not true. You can still play EQ 1 and find many other folks playing, so OP could go back if he wanted to.  But he doesn't want to. 

He wants a new game built after the old model, (so do I ) but realistically, not likely to happen, nor would many players accept it if it did. (much criticism was directed at VG because they incorportated old school concepts like death penalties, corpse runs and long travel times)

Face it, most of us who've been playing these games have come to appreciate some of the modern conveniences, and we're not likely to go back.

 funny how my wife, cousin, and i were having the same conversation. We have been avid MMO gamers and have really loved this genre but the truth is, MMOs are dying from lack of creativity, and lack of development. Its evolution has gone the wrong way. Of course the same things that worked in the beginning of MMOs arent as fun anymore now, otherwise there would be no need to change the style of play, but thats where they have gone wrong, there directions.

In an effort to appeal to the masses and sub racing, the devs have been putting out alot of content that a. have been very simple, not very dynamic, and easy to complete.

the next part is also something the OP stated. Its the templating. Everyone has the group quests in the dungeons. everyone has raiding. everyone has the fed ex missions. No one is even trying to reinvent the core of MMO systems. Thats the big problem. There should have been a reinvention a long time ago, we are at least 2 years overdue on that. Instead they have focused on making the same wheels look better with more dynamic raids, real time combat, more in depth story lines to solo quests, endgame sand boxing( guild city building and sieging), graphics and more pvp concepts. While these are good. they can only take you but so far.

basically it is time for a dev team to reinvent the wheel.

I also have been on a serious hiatus from MMo's for the past 4 months now. 

Overall I tend to agree with the message the OP is trying to convey.  I think I can relate in terms of getting older and tastes changing.  I'm in my 40's now with lots of family commitments and work related time requirements just don't afford me the time needed to really dedicated myself to the genre.  I just don't feel that excited about new titles hitting the market or being proposed.  To me if feels like deja vu, wash, rinse and repeat.  I am certainly not blaming it on the genre just more to developing other interests and not motivated.  I don't even find myself playing/interesting in stand alone games much anymore. 

I think some of us long for the older days of the genre when the first experience was everlasting.  Now when anything new  arrives on the market it just doesn't hold up to the individual standard.  This isn't true for everyone and not implied as such.  Just trying to convey the similar feelings as the OP. 

So...i get ganked a lot in Darkfall.......what stuff do you have?

But seriously, i also belive im in the last mmos i will ever play right now. Cant see myself play mmos if in a year or two if DF was the only game i could like, from hundreds to choose from.

Quite right to voice that opinion although ive just turned 17 i have played MMORPG's now for about 5-6 years and each one does improve, thought i do think the majority of content in a MMORPG is aimed at 16 - 25 as they have the most spare time.

I'm sure after a long break your opinion will change, maybe they'll bring out a MMORPG without repetative quests and isn't £ridculous a month and you might get that last bite into a game you've been waiting for.

All regards

|z|

Originally posted by fcnd05

I think some of us long for the older days of the genre when the first experience was everlasting.  Now when anything new  arrives on the market it just doesn't hold up to the individual standard.  This isn't true for everyone and not implied as such.  Just trying to convey the similar feelings as the OP. 

Exactly it's perception. Back in my days syndrome imo. Things change and you find you don't feel like you belong anymore. This isn't true just for games but for anything that you've been involved in for a long time that suddenly undergoes an evolution.

Growing pains guys, it's not always pretty but surely it's not all ugly either. We're in the early teens of mmos I think and we're bound to be gangly for a few more years yet before the genre fills in more and we start to see roleplay elements take more of a forefront. Right now it's been mostly about refining mechanics, it would be nice to go beyond that.

Originally posted by fcnd05

Overall I tend to agree with the message the OP is trying to convey.  I think I can relate in terms of getting older and tastes changing.  I'm in my 40's now with lots of family commitments and work related time requirements just don't afford me the time needed to really dedicated myself to the genre.  I just don't feel that excited about new titles hitting the market or being proposed.  To me if feels like deja vu, wash, rinse and repeat.  I am certainly not blaming it on the genre just more to developing other interests and not motivated.  I don't even find myself playing/interesting in stand alone games much anymore. 

I think some of us long for the older days of the genre when the first experience was everlasting.  Now when anything new  arrives on the market it just doesn't hold up to the individual standard.  This isn't true for everyone and not implied as such.  Just trying to convey the similar feelings as the OP. 

Apart from the family commitments part, I am the same. None of the new games are significantly different to the old ones. The leveling format (quests, etc) and end game content is the same. To the poster who suggested LotRO, I tried it but didn't find it significantly different to the other MMOs out there... sure it's has a great IP and a mature community but it's still the same format as the others with little else to do that seperates it from WoW and EQ2.

We need inovation, and like the OP I'm currently looking for something to do outside of gaming, until it appears.

Originally posted by mbd1968

Originally posted by fcnd05

Overall I tend to agree with the message the OP is trying to convey.  I think I can relate in terms of getting older and tastes changing.  I'm in my 40's now with lots of family commitments and work related time requirements just don't afford me the time needed to really dedicated myself to the genre.  I just don't feel that excited about new titles hitting the market or being proposed.  To me if feels like deja vu, wash, rinse and repeat.  I am certainly not blaming it on the genre just more to developing other interests and not motivated.  I don't even find myself playing/interesting in stand alone games much anymore. 

I think some of us long for the older days of the genre when the first experience was everlasting.  Now when anything new  arrives on the market it just doesn't hold up to the individual standard.  This isn't true for everyone and not implied as such.  Just trying to convey the similar feelings as the OP. 

Apart from the family commitments part, I am the same. None of the new games are significantly different to the old ones. The leveling format (quests, etc) and end game content is the same. To the poster who suggested LotRO, I tried it but didn't find it significantly different to the other MMOs out there... sure it's has a great IP and a mature community but it's still the same format as the others with little else to do that seperates it from WoW and EQ2.

We need inovation, and like the OP I'm currently looking for something to do outside of gaming, until it appears.

 

 I also tend to concur. Also in my 40's, it seems all the "new" MMOS are just regurgitating the same ideas. Of course a lot of this must be, but we need some real new ideas to freshen things up a bit. I am looking forward to how Star Wars TOC and Guild Wars 2 are. If they choke and remain largely the same old same old, then I will probably go back to my traditional RPGs and Strategy games I used to love before MMOS.  There is a saying that once you experience a thing you build up a tolerance to it and require more to gain the same feeling. It is possible us old timers are just unable to find that first love experience, and that like anything in life, you simply cannot be satisfied with it anymore. I hope it has not come to that for us posting here, but only time will tell...

The best thing that could happen to the MMO industry, is for almost everyone to follow the OPs example, and walk away.

The genre has been killing itself with piss poor games for far too long now.Games that hang on by the skin of your teeth, and hence allow the same devs to turn out the same crap time after time.

The industry and genre needs a rebirth.And that wont happen til the industry gets the purging it needs.

I agree with the OP.  I am only 26 but I started MMO gaming back in EQ in 1999.  I enjoyed my time in EQ1 and since then have been game hopping trying to find another game that I enjoy like I did EQ.

I am sick of hearing that EQ forced you to group, that simply is not true, sure grouping was a major part of the game but people could solo just fine.  Sure some classes were better at soloing then others but so what?

I am sick of doing pointless quests, I am done with quest grinding games.  I tried WAR and I quit playing over a month ago, got sick of questings so I decided to level only on PvP but it is nothing but a zerg fest and that got boring.  Now I don't play any MMOs.

I have hope for a few MMo games but not holding my breath.  I just want a developer to make a game for us old school gamers that want to feel apart of the world again.  That want to feel they earned what they got.  I want a game that makes me use my brain again. 

These new games hold your hand from start to finish, they never make you think.

Originally posted by Rekindle

eq did not force you to group.  The newer content like in pop did but there were PLENTY of places to bang off levels solo. You had many more options back then. Now its quest grind kill x fedex bs solo or group up to do the real content.

there's no comparison imo.

I played EQ1 with the first expansion up to level 26 and found the camp-grinding to be the only way to level in a decent period of time to be a pain.

I left EQ in ealy 2001 and did not play a MMO until WOW in 2006. I found the quest-grind to be enjoyable along with the gameplay and seamless world.

Now I have moved on to LOTRO which is even more enjoyable than WOW IMHO.

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by fcnd05

I think some of us long for the older days of the genre when the first experience was everlasting.  Now when anything new  arrives on the market it just doesn't hold up to the individual standard.  This isn't true for everyone and not implied as such.  Just trying to convey the similar feelings as the OP. 

 

Exactly it's perception. Back in my days syndrome imo. Things change and you find you don't feel like you belong anymore. This isn't true just for games but for anything that you've been involved in for a long time that suddenly undergoes an evolution.

Growing pains guys, it's not always pretty but surely it's not all ugly either. We're in the early teens of mmos I think and we're bound to be gangly for a few more years yet before the genre fills in more and we start to see roleplay elements take more of a forefront. Right now it's been mostly about refining mechanics, it would be nice to go beyond that.

I still remember the game Marathon as having the greatest graphics I have ever seen. What's more in my mind it still does. Despite having revisited the game since then and truly seeing how bad the graphics are compared to today's standard, I still find my memories of the game having superior graphics to recently released games like Gears of War II or Halo 3. Nostolgia is a very powerful force, and when you really enjoy something it's quite possible you're never going to enjoy something that much again, even if you do the exact same thing that created the memory. For instance, the Marathon of my mind will always be better than the actual game Marathon, despite the fact that common sense says they should be the same.