I've been playing wow on and off for two and a half years.  WoW was my first love, and my introduction to MMO's.  I remember that I had no one to teach me the ropes. I remember when I turned level 11 how the quest became so easy, I had to ask in chat where to go next, no one told me about flight paths until around level 15.  Learning this stuff was so intriguing that I could not stop playing, I even called off work a few times.

My best day ever was when I was questing around South Shore and out of no where I got an invite to Shadowfang Keep, I'm like what is Shadowfang Keep ? The group leader told me to just shut up and just come, so I accepted and found myself in a group of 5 going to strange lands. Being around a level 24 rogue and knowing I could kick some butt, I found myself running ahead and fighting everything.   In a very short time I got my butt handed to me by the mobs and our group.  This girl, I think she was a priest decided to take me under her wing and explain how to play as a group, and I was fine the rest of Shadowfang. In fact the group decided to let me have the great dagger dropped by the last boss. This was my best day in all video game history. 

Back then everyone was really really good, I'm talking about everyone, I was getting invites to dungeons most every time I turned the game on, Everyone knew how to do them.  And each one I learned a little more about grouping.  Everyone was my teacher. around level 40 I decided to take the bull by the horns and  get my own groups. It' was a given that everyone I recruited know how to play. 

About 4 months ago, I returned for like my 4th time. This time I was able to recruit about 6 co-workers and we played together for most of this time, I was able to show them how to group and it was a lot of fun as they were predictable and dependable, as time went on a few quit and we spread too far in levels to play anymore.  So I was left with just a few, and had to get others for dungeons.  Well let me tell you everyone sucks. Every dps is now a tank, tanks don't know how to tank, healers log off 10 min in.

I could understand not knowing how to play in groups, however no one will take kindly to any sort of advice AT ALL !

Anyone that has any clue about a dungeon, knows it because they had 80's help them in low level dungeons !  What's with this ?  Is it like the new way of playing, have 80's help you get loot.  Is this is what ppl expect ?

Every guild on my server sucks bad, I belonged to most everyone in search for a good one, just to find large ones that will take anyone, to smaller ones with everyone feeling to sorry for the GM to leave.  Other guild's are just chatter boxes and no one knowing how to play together.

I was in this guild at around level 40. It was one of the most  respected guild's on our server, I must say that if you asked in guild chat someone would come to help as long as it's no longer than 5 min.  At level 40 I would take notice of the higher levels going to a dungeon or raid for their level, 10 min. later they were out.  Asking what happened they would reply that the group fell apart, and they were all fine with that !!!

I'm finding no loyalty, no dependability, no Honor, just a bunch of kid's running around soloing in an mmo.

I guess my good old days are gone, but I must say that Dungeons and Dragons Online has that old school dependability that I once enjoyed, at least last year it was.  I think I'll play that !

What?  You can't quit... who will run me through Wailing Caverns to get my "Fang" set?

Just kidding :-)

I think most of the tight players are now in raiding guilds.  PUGs were bad a year ago, I don't expect they'll improve.

Best of luck wherever you end up.

Ken

My first toon was a level 60 rogue, that was the cap at the time, since then I have 2 80's, and thats without quest helper :)

And this is the reason for the downfall of MMO communities...

Originally posted by page

My first toon was a level 60 rogue, that was the cap at the time, since then I have 2 80's, and thats without quest helper :)

Don't bother with Zorndorf.

No matter what you say, he's found you guilty in advance.  Your crime?  You dared to say you did not like WoW.  It doesn't matter to him whether you've ever liked it; the important part is that he likes it, and anyone who disagrees with him is an idiot, or a liar.

And yet the rest of this forum does absolutely nothing to denounce him, or to remind him that what he does simply goes against the game they play.

Next, he will start looking for discrepancies that aren't there between what you said the first time, and what he'll force you to repeat over and over and over again.  That bickering over the level you've reached, and the innuendos that go with it? Classic Zorndorf.  He doesn't even bother to try to understand what you're trying to say; what he thinks is better -- it's always better.

There is some good in WoW, but I found the hand-holding juvenile stuff with pop culture references too much to take seriously.

Originally posted by Vetarnias

Originally posted by page

My first toon was a level 60 rogue, that was the cap at the time, since then I have 2 80's, and thats without quest helper :)

Don't bother with Zorndorf.

No matter what you say, he's found you guilty in advance.  Your crime?  You dared to say you did not like WoW.  It doesn't matter to him whether you've ever liked it; the important part is that he likes it, and anyone who disagrees with him is an idiot, or a liar.

And yet the rest of this forum does absolutely nothing to denounce him, or to remind him that what he does simply goes against the game they play.

Next, he will start looking for discrepancies that aren't there between what you said the first time, and what he'll force you to repeat over and over and over again.  That bickering over the level you've reached, and the innuendos that go with it? Classic Zorndorf.  He doesn't even bother to try to understand what you're trying to say; what he thinks is better -- it's always better.

There is some good in WoW, but I found the hand-holding juvenile stuff with pop culture references too much to take seriously.

This is very very true. All my attempts to inject logic in him have failed.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Vetarnias

Originally posted by page

My first toon was a level 60 rogue, that was the cap at the time, since then I have 2 80's, and thats without quest helper :)

Don't bother with Zorndorf.

No matter what you say, he's found you guilty in advance.  Your crime?  You dared to say you did not like WoW.  It doesn't matter to him whether you've ever liked it; the important part is that he likes it, and anyone who disagrees with him is an idiot, or a liar.

And yet the rest of this forum does absolutely nothing to denounce him, or to remind him that what he does simply goes against the game they play.

Next, he will start looking for discrepancies that aren't there between what you said the first time, and what he'll force you to repeat over and over and over again.  That bickering over the level you've reached, and the innuendos that go with it? Classic Zorndorf.  He doesn't even bother to try to understand what you're trying to say; what he thinks is better -- it's always better.

There is some good in WoW, but I found the hand-holding juvenile stuff with pop culture references too much to take seriously.

This is very very true. All my attempts to inject logic in him have failed.

 

Well another Wow hater who comes in charging in on a person who clearly lied.

--- Edit ----

I just found this in your posting history of a few weeks back ...

 

Hi everyone,

I've played WoW on and off for 2 years, this is the first time I went past level 55. I love doing Instances but never did Dire Maul. Before I get a group I like to do some research. However using alakhazam, and Thottbot as my reference for Dire Maul it"s only confusing me more this time.

You have East, West and North along with needing keys. All the walk troughs that I've found seem to be bad.

So can someone give me a good walk through ?

Seems this and upper and lower Black Rock Spier are very un popular because of the hoops you have to jump.

----------

So ....  I was right all along.

Forum garbage, not contributing anything.

Despite what the trolls say: the man was talking nonsense.

LOL

 

 

My posting history? I never said that, so you are either talking about someone else or completely lying, one of the two.

Oh, and before you start slinging around names, I'm not a WoW hater. I played WoW for almost a year and enjoyed it very much. But I'm not blinded by that enjoyment, and I'm able to realize that WoW isn't the best game, isn't the best design, and there are too many ways to improve it.

Hay Vetarnias,

Thanks for the heads up about Zorndort, It was kind of strange how he picked the post apart. As much as he sticks up for WoW, I'll bet he is very aggravating to his guild members :)

I shouldn't get all defensive, cause I got my point across. 

I think the problem is that Wow has kinda grown to much. All kids play the game down to pre-teens now.

Maybe you should try a game that is little harder so you either have to learn how to group or quit.

I play EQ2 currently, and while you can get some bad players most are good and knowing or try at least to learn. The rest usually quit before level 25, if you play bad youll just wipe all the time.

Of course you might just be on a bad server also, if you like Wow but not's it's players you could try checking out a better server, RPG servers tends to be a little better in my meaning.

Post Deleted

Look at the date on that older post: January 19.  It's more than "a few weeks back"; it's a full three months ago. Not only is it quite possible to level to 80 during that time, it's also quite possible to get bored of the game in less than that.  I am ready to testify to the latter at any moment.  (And for the record, there was no need to post that older post again. We saw it allright the first time around.)

But you knew all that already.  You just went lying around the forums, once again, hoping nobody would notice.

Oh, and by the way, if I'm the one you're accusing of lying, maybe readers here should take note of how that conversation went the first time around: www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218904

Edit: That was the wrong link.

           I dont understand how anyone can play WoW much longer than 4-6 months myself....... Then again I guess if you had never played another game before WoW you might be impressed with it.......Those of us that did know it is easy mode MMO lite.

What?  Someone who is dissatisfied with WoW is posting to let everyone know?  This has never happened before, someone should notify the New York Times, Scientific American even. 

Having fun = keep playing.  Not having fun = find something else or try doing it a different way (which I think is what many are doing under the radar in the WoW "community").

That said, I agree with the poster that the quality of PUG's has deteriorated.  Lately it has sometimes felt like PvpfAtE:  Player versus Player for Access to Environment. 

_{Ok two things...}

First, if u called out of work a few times to play WoW, you are a moron.  I consider myself a video game junky, but have never called out of work to play a game, but then again I have something called "responsibility" to deal with.

Second, yes u caught him in a lie or so it would seem, but u actually took the time to look over the forums to catch him in a lie.  Yikes that is wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start.

Anyway good luck to both of you in your future gaming or "catching people lying" endeavors!

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Vetarnias

Look at the date on that older post: January 19.  It's more than "a few weeks back"; it's a full three months ago. Not only is it quite possible to level to 80 during that time, it's also quite possible to get bored of the game in less than that.  I am ready to testify to the latter at any moment.  (And for the record, there was no need to post that older post again. We saw it allright the first time around.)

But you knew all that already.  You just went lying around the forums, once again, hoping nobody would notice.

Oh, and by the way, if I'm the one you're accusing of lying, maybe readers here should take note of how that conversation went the first time around: www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2664940

 

 

O man,

The guy said he had a level 60 BEFORE the caps were raised .... (that's 2 (!) years ago in this VERY thread.

And he said he had in this post above TWO level 80's. .... while it was clearly that after having played for 2 years he only had ONE level 55 trying to enter for the first time ever Dire Maul.

Clearly a trolling attempt. The man was caught with his pants down.

Typical Zorndorf.  Actually, I don't know when he played or how high he got, nor do I care.  Do you seriously think that a liar would be caught with a small discrepancy of what? Five levels? Something like that? No.  He'd make his argument ironclad.

I know you hate me because I could do exactly the same thing with your experience of level 46 (and talking of Raid content you READ about).

The link is just right there, Zorndorf.  Reread my OP.  You'll notice, if you keep track of those pesky quotation marks, that the raid content was in someone else's quotes which I reproduced in there (in this instance, Jonathan Blow, maker of Braid).  This was pointed out to you on at least two occasions in that thread -- which you now disregard once again. 

I think the reasons you jump in his defense is quite obvious.

Or do you want ANOTHER suspension for using ....... ????

Suspended from what, Zorndorf?  For using what?  I was never suspended from anything game-related (no, not even from these boards).  If you're referring to these boards, you're clearly seeing suspensions as a shillelagh you can swagger around, while you have committed worse crimes and nobody has ever tried to stop you.  And now you're trying to brag about it?

But since you're making use of the word "using", I'm pretty sure you mean something game-related.  Which is utterly false.  I played WoW for six weeks and cancelled without ever "using" anything, much less being "suspended". Same for every other game I've played.  In short, this is a libelous accusation and I am reporting it.

Or, as some would summarize it, put up or shut up. 

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Vetarnias

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Vetarnias

Look at the date on that older post: January 19.  It's more than "a few weeks back"; it's a full three months ago. Not only is it quite possible to level to 80 during that time, it's also quite possible to get bored of the game in less than that.  I am ready to testify to the latter at any moment.  (And for the record, there was no need to post that older post again. We saw it allright the first time around.)

But you knew all that already.  You just went lying around the forums, once again, hoping nobody would notice.

Oh, and by the way, if I'm the one you're accusing of lying, maybe readers here should take note of how that conversation went the first time around: www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2664940

 

 

O man,

The guy said he had a level 60 BEFORE the caps were raised .... (that's 2 (!) years ago in this VERY thread.

And he said he had in this post above TWO level 80's. .... while it was clearly that after having played for 2 years he only had ONE level 55 trying to enter for the first time ever Dire Maul.

Clearly a trolling attempt. The man was caught with his pants down.

Typical Zorndorf.  Actually, I don't know when he played or how high he got, nor do I care.  Do you seriously think that a liar would be caught with a small discrepancy of what? Five levels? Something like that? No.  He'd make his argument ironclad.

I know you hate me because I could do exactly the same thing with your experience of level 46 (and talking of Raid content you READ about).

The link is just right there, Zorndorf.  Reread my OP.  You'll notice, if you keep track of those pesky quotation marks, that the raid content was in someone else's quotes which I reproduced in there (in this instance, Jonathan Blow, maker of Braid).  This was pointed out to you on at least two occasions in that thread -- which you now disregard once again. 

I think the reasons you jump in his defense is quite obvious.

Or do you want ANOTHER suspension for using ....... ????

Suspended from what, Zorndorf?  For using what?  I was never suspended from anything game-related (no, not even from these boards).  If you're referring to these boards, you're clearly seeing suspensions as a shillelagh you can swagger around, while you have committed worse crimes and nobody has ever tried to stop you.  And now you're trying to brag about it?

But since you're making use of the word "using", I'm pretty sure you mean something game-related.  Which is utterly false.  I played WoW for six weeks and cancelled without ever "using" anything, much less being "suspended". Same for every other game I've played.  In short, this is a libelous accusation and I am reporting it.

Or, as some would summarize it, put up or shut up. 

 

Cool down.
 

Reread the posts from the very original OP and everything is clear.

I just don't want this Wow forum being dominated by people who hate ... a game and try to up every negative comment possible.

That is NOT the meaning of a forum.

Silly me for thinking the meaning of a forum was to have open (and open-minded), sincere discussion.  Thankfully, we have the Zorndorf ideal vision of a forum right here: www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/226417/page/1

If you don't like the game, fine -----> say it ONCE, twice or three times and than go -----> that way.

But don't try to defend people who come up with things they PRETEND to have done and didn't do.

Tx to guys like you the next Raid content is ALREADY less fun because people indeed like to brag and give lies about in game difficulty.

Guys like you do NOT care about Wow: so unless you want to have to say something constructive ----> play another game.

Why then are you doing the same in other forums?  Classic example, oldie but goodie: www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/214649/page/1

So yes Mr lvl 46, you didn't like it, but sorry you didn't experience the end game either (just like the OP clearly didn't have the experience he wanted to have to be credible).

So go take another route to the forums.

Or you could get banned.

Oh, I love when people threaten me.  Do you run these forums? Do you think you run these forums?

And by the way, if you're going to give lessons on abuse, should I mention your Post #10 in this thread?:  www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/15/view/forums/thread/227465/page/1  Oops... just did it.  Post #13 is pretty good too.

And by the way, you haven't answered my question about what you meant about being "suspended" for "using".  I DID report your post, by the way.

---

Originally posted by Zorndorf

---

Originally posted by Vetarnias

 

---

 
What is your game Vetarnias? Do you hate a game that much ?
Just look at your signature. Man get a grip on yourself and play something.
But I do NOT want trolls coming here 20 times a day lying about the game I love to play.
It is that simple.

---

I'm pretty sure he's a POTBS guy. I've seen him living in that forum quite a bit in the past. If that's true, it would explain his WoW hate.

His game is now sunken treasure. (See what I did there?)

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Vetarnias

 

 

What is your game Vetarnias? Do you hate a game that much ?

Just look at your signature. Man get a grip on yourself and play something.

But I do NOT want trolls coming here 20 times a day lying about the game I love to play.

It is that simple.

Why? I mean really, what does it matter?

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Vetarnias

 

 

What is your game Vetarnias? Do you hate a game that much ?

Just look at your signature. Man get a grip on yourself and play something.

But I do NOT want trolls coming here 20 times a day lying about the game I love to play.

It is that simple.

I find that really funny, compared to all of the "truth" you lay down on us all day long. Priceless.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Vetarnias

 

 What is your game Vetarnias? Do you hate a game that much ?

As I have said in the past, I'd be rather indifferent to this game if it weren't for the rabid fanboys who will brook no dissent.  Me, I'd gladly be on my way, but some WoW supporters not only will dismiss any criticism of their game as either uninformed or just lies, they will also prevent you from liking other games.

I think it has reached this point with you.  Remember that meaningless poll that LOTRO won as best game of 2008, and you couldn't get over it, even though it meant nothing?  The market is far wider than WoW (still not wide enough, if you ask me), but somehow WoW should win every laurel because it has more subscribers, otherwise the poll is rigged? 

Then there is that talk of "nothing is stopping the juggernaut", that useless bragging.  It's useless because WoW won.  Some people will try to find every flaw in the subscriber figures, but I won't, because it's still going to be vastly more than anything else.   It's already seen as though WoW is crushing the market (I'd agree) and stifling creativity (I'd disagree, because it was already stifled long before 2004); bragging on top of it just becomes unbearable.  I want alternatives to WoW; yet you make it sound as though that's not even allowed. 

Consider your views of EVE Online, which I recall reading somewhere in the general section.  I remember you making a big case out of being unable to step outside the cockpit in EVE.  I don't play EVE and never did, but for other reasons (the scamming, the ganking, the paranoia, etc), but somehow being able to step outside the cockpit and fly over mountain ranges ought to be a prerequisite of good gaming design?  And EVE is a profitable game in its niche market; yet you feel the need to shoot it down because it isn't enough like WoW.  EVE is successful for what it is trying to be; yet I get the impression you're not even allowing that -- because it doesn't have 11.5 million subscribers, maybe?

That's what I'm talking about.  I'm not one of those "old-school" players who reinvent MMO history to change every design flaw of UO into a design feature (Darkfall).  But I want alternatives to WoW.  And most of the time you post here, either in the WoW section or the general forums (which you're brazen enough to use for posting WoW patch information, of all things), it's all about omnipotent WoW.

Just look at your signature. Man get a grip on yourself and play something.

As opposed to your signature? "Defender of the Holy Light"? My signature is just the yin to your yang.

But I do NOT want trolls coming here 20 times a day lying about the game I love to play.

So that's it.  Before they've ever posted a single word, you already know that "trolls" are lying?  Do you think that those who don't support WoW are just a bunch of viral marketers for EA or Sony?

It is that simple.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by Zorndorf

---

Originally posted by Vetarnias

 

 

---

 

 
What is your game Vetarnias? Do you hate a game that much ?
Just look at your signature. Man get a grip on yourself and play something.
But I do NOT want trolls coming here 20 times a day lying about the game I love to play.
It is that simple.

---

 

 

I'm pretty sure he's a POTBS guy. I've seen him living in that forum quite a bit in the past. If that's true, it would explain his WoW hate.

Explain what exactly? How?  And when you say "he's a POTBS guy", I certainly hope you mean I'm a player attracted to that setting, and not "he's a marketer for FLS/SOE".  If you think the latter, I'm inviting you to read my two-part essay "Slow Death on the Burning Sea", which I wrote last year as a result of the woes of the first months.  Some viral marketing indeed with a title like that.

Also, I think I have written enough in the POTBS forums, either here or at the official forums, to demonstrate that while I see the potential of the game, I also see many many flaws, many of which could turn out to be fatal: the "red circle" compromise, the miniature world map, the instancing of everything, the ganksquads, the level-based ships, the internal guild economy, etc.

Do I care about POTBS? Strangely enough, yes.  The developers have screwed up, but I know they're probably fighting for their survival with this game, and haven't shot themselves in the foot like the Darkfall guys have.  I'm not going to whitewash what I write because of that, but I certainly hope it improves -- because, simply enough, there's no other game like it that isn't a cash-shop Asian MMO.  In comparison, Blizzard needs nobody's sympathy -- they're rich and successful enough.  As much as we might suggest changes, they're in a very good position to tell us "thanks, but no thanks". POTBS? Not so much.

And for the record: After cancelling POTBS last June, I have resubscribed to it earlier this month -- and I have already cancelled my subscription for the next one.  Because, simply enough, nothing has changed.  They're still dangling port governance but the indication I'm getting (based on forum interaction) is that it's not about to be implemented and I'm getting the distinct impression that they have no idea how to do it.  I hope I'm wrong.

As for it "explaining" my "WoW hate": Once again, how?  Do you see POTBS as competition to WoW, when they're in two different genres? (If so, it just proves my original argument: According to some, the WoW juggernaut won't be satisfied until it crushes everything, hence my opposition).  I like both the age of sail and fantasy (or anything historical, too).  Played tabletop D&D, liked it a lot.  I still consider Baldur's Gate 2 to be one of the best games ever made.  Played Ultima IV on the NES, loved it as well.  So I love fantasy.  But WoW was not my stuff because, ironically, it didn't even take itself seriously as a fantasy world.  Haris Pilton, anyone?

His game is now sunken treasure. (See what I did there?)

Please tell me you're not bragging about POTBS's demise.  Please don't tell me you won't be happy until its head is on the WoW hunting board.