Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by eccoton

Originally posted by Ginfress02

Originally posted by Deewe

For kids there is a game with fun game play and a compagny that has an ethical behavior

I have nieces and nephew that played it for months, even years, without even paying a dime.

Now the kids are older some of them upgraded to the monthly fee subscription.

Name: Dofus.

 

Rofl...SoE and ethical behavior......

 

SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior. SOE changes some games without consulting all it's players, so what. They added item malls to some games after saying they weren't, so what. They ruined SWG with NGE and paid a huge price for it, so what. How is any of that unethical? I have been a customer of SONY for over 3 decades. While I was unhappy with SWG-nge I have never seen any unethical behavior as so many whiney SOE "hater" love to claim when they attack anything SOE does.

 

 

So it is ethical to lie and break promises?   

Just because they "paid a huge price" for their actions doesn't change the nature of what transpired.  Nor does the length of your patronage change the nature of their actions. 

 

It is one thing to make excuses and apologies for a company, but to flat out say that lying and breaking promises is ethical is something else.  Wow, I guess we might as well throw deception in there too.

It seems to me that the reason they gave refunds for their ToOW expansion is that they withheld information from customers about their plans to remove many of the advertised features that people were paying for.   Misrepresenting a service that people pay for in advance certainly is unethical.  Hence the refunds. 

If someone wants to say misleading customers and taking their money is ethical, I'd simply disagree.  If they want to do business with a company like that, I'd simply say, "good luck, but I'll pass."

Originally posted by Servase

I just found out you have to pay to play free realms.. WHAT THE FUDGE!

 

Edit: According to an article. It will be $5 for a single account and $10 for a family account which will allow 5 logins at the same time.

 

"It will be $5 a month for a single account or $10 a month for a family account that allows five logins at the same time. Also, micro-transactions will be available for players who are interested in purchasing in-game items for their characters."

 

I'm not going to lie. I knew they were going to have a micro-transaction system in the game. That's obvious, as they did this with EQ and EQ2 and now they're doing it with Vanguard. But I was NOT expecting a monthly fee.

 

I guess it should be Cheap2play - but not free - Realms

Any time I see SOE and the word "free" in the same sentence, I look for the fine print.  Here's the fine print for their "free" trading card game for example:

*Active or former Star Wars Galaxies or Station Access™ subscription required. Former Star Wars Galaxies or Station Access subscribers with accounts in good standing are also able to access and play the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game. Star Wars Galaxies or Station Access accounts no longer in good standing may result in inability to play, use or access Star Wars Galaxies trading cards. Booster packs, starter packs, loot or promotional cards received as part of a promotion or included at no additional cost with valid, current, paid Star Wars Galaxies subscription are non-transferable and non-tradeable. Redeemed items are non-transferable and non-tradeable; may be limited to one per account; access to redeemed items available only with current, paid Star Wars Galaxies subscription in good standing or with Star Wars Galaxies trial account (but only for duration of such limited trial account -- ie, up to 14 days). Internet connection required. Players are responsible for all applicable internet fees. Additional recurring subscription fees apply to Star Wars Galaxies and Station Access accounts. Bonus loot card (and items redeemed from such cards) limited to one per account. Items are non-tradeable and non-transferable. Booster pack cards included at no additional cost with valid, active Star Wars Galaxies subscription are non-transferable and non-tradeable. Additional starter packs and booster packs sold separately. Star Wars Galaxies and the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game are digital files only. No physical boxes, trading cards, disks, software, documentation or other tangible materials will be sent to you.

**Please Note: Trial includes up to 14 consecutive days of subscription service for new accounts only (offer excludes existing Star Wars Galaxies and Station Access subscribers). Activating the subscription service account terminates the trial period and you will lose the balance of any unused trial period game time. In addition, if you convert the trial account to a paid Star Wars Galaxies subscription, you will not be entitled to any game time that may be included with the purchase of certain versions of, or other offers related to Star Wars Galaxies. To subscribe to Star Wars Galaxies visit www.station.com and click on the My Account button, then click on Subscriptions Info link. To convert trial account to active, entitled subscription, you must choose a recurring subscription plan and enter a valid credit card or paid game card. Sony Online Entertainment and LucasArts do not ensure continuous or error-free access, use or availability of any game content, feature, game-play or server and may change, modify, disable, suspend or remove any such content, feature, game-play or server at their sole discretion.

+Item is non-tradeable and non-transferable; limit one per account; access to redeemed item will be lost when trial account expires if account is not validly converted to current, paid Star Wars Galaxies subscription in good standing."
 

"Free":  I don't think this word means what you think it means lol.

Originally posted by eccoton 

I am simply not going to respond to your question. How many time do we need to go around and around with this. You know my stance and have heard me explain this over and over again. No matter what forums I post in you respond to my post with the same stuff. I get it you do not like SOE. You might just try ignoring me and not respond to me anymore.

We simply see this issue from different view points. Nothing I say will ever get you to change your opinion on SOE. Most certianly nothing you will say will vilafy SOE for me. Go for it throw what ever you want in there, makes no difference to me at all. I will not respond to your SOE hating questions. Free Realms is great and will be a success and rightfully so, no matter what you think of SOE. I accept the fact you hate SOE you might try accepting the fact I have no problem with them.

I'm not trying to change your views, I just asked a simple question that anyone could offer some discussion on.  You consider lies and breaking promises as ethical behavior and I was curious how that can be possible.  Maybe someone knows something that I don't? 

If you want to reply try saying yes, no or something else related to the discussion?  If you don't want to converse, don't hit reply, but don't cry that I point out something that makes zero logical sense. 

For the record I don't hate soe, I just have no respect for their actions and for the life of me cannot think of one definition of ethical that would include lies, deception and broken promises. 

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

I'm not trying to change your views, I just asked a simple question that anyone could offer some discussion on.  You consider lies and breaking promises as ethical behavior and I was curious how that can be possible.  Maybe someone knows something that I don't? 

If you want to reply try saying yes, no or something else related to the discussion?  If you don't want to converse, don't hit reply, but don't cry that I point out something that makes zero logical sense. 

 

For the record I don't hate soe, I just have no respect for their actions and for the life of me cannot think of one definition of ethical that would include lies, deception and broken promises. 

The reason I am not answering this, is you know my answer. You have asked this many time before and I have answered it. It is not that I am disrespecting you or your response. However, You know, as well as I do, we have gone over this many times before. I do not see any point in doing it again.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by eccoton

Originally posted by Ginfress02

Originally posted by Deewe

For kids there is a game with fun game play and a compagny that has an ethical behavior

I have nieces and nephew that played it for months, even years, without even paying a dime.

Now the kids are older some of them upgraded to the monthly fee subscription.

Name: Dofus.

 

Rofl...SoE and ethical behavior......

 

SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior. SOE changes some games without consulting all it's players, so what. They added item malls to some games after saying they weren't, so what. They ruined SWG with NGE and paid a huge price for it, so what. How is any of that unethical? I have been a customer of SONY for over 3 decades. While I was unhappy with SWG-nge I have never seen any unethical behavior as so many whiney SOE "hater" love to claim when they attack anything SOE does.

 

 

So it is ethical to lie and break promises?   

Just because they "paid a huge price" for their actions doesn't change the nature of what transpired.  Nor does the length of your patronage change the nature of their actions. 

 

It is one thing to make excuses and apologies for a company, but to flat out say that lying and breaking promises is ethical is something else.  Wow, I guess we might as well throw deception in there too.

It seems to me that the reason they gave refunds for their ToOW expansion is that they withheld information from customers about their plans to remove many of the advertised features that people were paying for.   Misrepresenting a service that people pay for in advance certainly is unethical.  Hence the refunds. 

If someone wants to say misleading customers and taking their money is ethical, I'd simply disagree.  If they want to do business with a company like that, I'd simply say, "good luck, but I'll pass."

If they gave refunds to redeem themselves then they did what was ethical. A refund is all anybody can ask for as restitution for something not delivered. How many gaming companies launch games promising content on the box that never sees the light of day due to shifting priorities. Quite a lot. How many are you able to get refunded for?. I'm too lazy to do any extensive research right now but if you call me on it i will. It happens very frequent these game companies pull a fast one on us. Hellgate London and Darkfall is/was the latest of personal experiences with that. I don't know any gaming company that gives refunds when they either break promises or fail to deliver. You usually just have to deal with the loss. For every 1 company you would consider honorable by your own standards, I can probably find two or more than isn't. Lying and withholding information, changing of plans regarding releasing of certain content is so damn common in the industry both in single player and in MMO's. If you can't deal with unethical behavior from a gaming company, you might as well stop gaming all together.

But I have to say anybody unhappy with a company and the way they represent themselves has a right to completely boycott them. Just don't expect everybody to agree with you, understand your point or join your rally. You came to take a stance in form of a post about a game you never intend to play in the first place. You did that. Now move along.

To the OP, I could be wrong but you strike me as a person who are just looking for things to criticize SoE for. I have a sneaking suspicion you never intended to play Free Realms or even had the slightest interest in it to begin with, other than to look for something to bash. I love posters with an agenda. Your in luck because SoE is producing quite a few games for the near future. You will have plenty of game forums to troll in then. And oh yes you are trolling. Why else would somebody who "already hates SoE" come into a SoE game forum posting this garbage. Now you hate them even more? If you already hate them why are you looking into future SoE releases and posting about them?. You seem a little obsessed if you ask me. People usually just avoid a company after being scorn. Not look into every product to post about unless you are a little unbalanced.

<Mod Edited>

I also think this hate for SOE has gotten a little out of hand, some of it is borderline insane or just plain silly. Look at the former dev who committed suicide over the whole mass hate SOE, bet the poor chump couldn't find work or got harassed daily. Think it's time to hang up our pitchforks people and just move on and shut the fuck up.

On the other hand some of the flame wars are warranted. They did in my opinion false advertise and were sneaky about the changes. TCG is borderline gambling and should be stopped, and now SOE is turning their products into cash shops? I know the market is shit, but to little your standards more and going the Asian market way, which by the way is smothering the industry with their mass grind-fests and buy ur way to the top filth.

In the end SOE has massive damage done and it'll be awhile before it can be repaired, doubt it can be tbh. In the end you can only move on or still pay to complain about a game you surely hate.

As for Free Realms.....just another crap game riding the WoW train. As if the WoW market couldn't get any more flooded as it is.

Anyways, time to end this rant that I don't know why I wrote in the first place....workplace boredom....such a drag. Guess i'll load some Fallout 3 and kill some muties. The pleasure of being your own boss! :)

Originally posted by Coldrain_13

As for Free Realms.....just another crap game riding the WoW train. As if the WoW market couldn't get any more flooded as it is.

Anyways, time to end this rant that I don't know why I wrote in the first place....workplace boredom....such a drag. Guess i'll load some Fallout 3 and kill some muties. The pleasure of being your own boss! :)

WoW train? I played WoW for over 4 years. I have been in the beta for free Realms only 3 days. However, I just 3 days, I can tell you Free Realms is nothing like WoW and is targeted to entirely different audience. Just because the trees look similar does not make the games the same. They are completely different experiences.

Free Realms is a pretty cool game.  I'm an old mmo gamer and I'm finding this cute game quite a bit of fun.  I really like the car racing mini game it reminds me or mario carts.  Yeah this game is unlike any game I've played and geared to a younger audiance for sure but I'm thinking it is gonna have very broad appeal and be seen as a "fun" game. 

It is nothing like any of the premier mmorpg games.

I also like that the game is free.  Yes it is free in that you can play it and have a great time without spending 1 penny.  Should you want to do more you can spend money to unlock new content, jobs, and quests.  Thats great in my opinion as I can really play the game for awhile before ever spending any money and as a casual player that might be enough.  I don't mind that SoE is trying to make money off the game and to strike a balance where they give players many options.  You can play for free.  But if you want to spend money there is an item shop you can buy nifty items, or if you want more there is a subscription that expands the game options and content.

Looks like a good balance that gives the player a great degree of control over what they want to invest in the game. 

1. play free

2. play free and buy an occasional item

3. add a sub and get new quests, multiple character slots, new jobs, new content.

4. do it all sub and buy items.

Nothing is free and SoE definitely can't make a premier game and run it with no revenue at all.  This model is pretty dynamic and gives players lots of ways to balance the costs vs what they want in the game.

Originally posted by ethion

Free Realms is a pretty cool game.  I'm an old mmo gamer and I'm finding this cute game quite a bit of fun.  I really like the car racing mini game it reminds me or mario carts.  Yeah this game is unlike any game I've played and geared to a younger audiance for sure but I'm thinking it is gonna have very broad appeal and be seen as a "fun" game. 

It is nothing like any of the premier mmorpg games.

I also like that the game is free.  Yes it is free in that you can play it and have a great time without spending 1 penny.  Should you want to do more you can spend money to unlock new content, jobs, and quests.  Thats great in my opinion as I can really play the game for awhile before ever spending any money and as a casual player that might be enough.  I don't mind that SoE is trying to make money off the game and to strike a balance where they give players many options.  You can play for free.  But if you want to spend money there is an item shop you can buy nifty items, or if you want more there is a subscription that expands the game options and content.

Looks like a good balance that gives the player a great degree of control over what they want to invest in the game. 

1. play free

2. play free and buy an occasional item

3. add a sub and get new quests, multiple character slots, new jobs, new content.

4. do it all sub and buy items.

Nothing is free and SoE definitely can't make a premier game and run it with no revenue at all.  This model is pretty dynamic and gives players lots of ways to balance the costs vs what they want in the game.

Edited: Nevermind

The SOE hate is beyond tiresome. Let it go already.

I just got into the beta for Free Realms and so far, I'm enjoying it. It's nice being able to switch jobs at will, the minigames are neat, and the quests, such as they are, are very easy to complete. I also like the fact that fighting isn't required. It's an interesting little world that has a lot to offer.

I don't have kids, but I can easily see this game being a nice diversion from the more mainstream MMO's I play. And I can totally see this as a game for parents and kids to enjoy together. It's cute, and yes, it's fun.

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by rhinok

you do have a point, to a certain extent.  On the Free Realms "What is FreeRealms?" website, it clearly states:

"Free Realms is a free 3D virtual world with stunning unique graphics and fun, quirky activities. Free Realmsis an attitude. It's innovative, dynamic and deep. Welcome to Free Realms, where there's so much to see and explore!"

This is a little misleading, because it implies that the game is F2P, which is not the case.  Free Realms is "freemium" game that is a hybrid of some f2p content/additional subscriber content/cash shop goodies.  I don't mind this model as long as it's implemented in a fair and balanced manner.  We'll need to wait and see what happens.

~Ripper

I fully agree - the game should not have been called Free Realms

I really don't see how it's misleading. The clearly say Free realms is an attitude.  If you some how can twsit that to mean it's free you have the reasoning and logic skills to be a lawyer.

no where in that does it say it is in fact free.

The worst part is....IT IS FREE!!!!!!

your bitching about 5 bucks a month so you cna get 5 extra classes and more quests.

That's like bitching about it costing extra to supersize your fries in your value menu item

Originally posted by sinloi

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by rhinok

you do have a point, to a certain extent.  On the Free Realms "What is FreeRealms?" website, it clearly states:

"Free Realms is a free 3D virtual world with stunning unique graphics and fun, quirky activities. Free Realmsis an attitude. It's innovative, dynamic and deep. Welcome to Free Realms, where there's so much to see and explore!"

This is a little misleading, because it implies that the game is F2P, which is not the case.  Free Realms is "freemium" game that is a hybrid of some f2p content/additional subscriber content/cash shop goodies.  I don't mind this model as long as it's implemented in a fair and balanced manner.  We'll need to wait and see what happens.

~Ripper

I fully agree - the game should not have been called Free Realms

 

I really don't see how it's misleading. The clearly say Free realms is an attitude.  If you some how can twsit that to mean it's free you have the reasoning and logic skills to be a lawyer.

 

no where in that does it say it is in fact free.

 

The worst part is....IT IS FREE!!!!!!

your bitching about 5 bucks a month so you cna get 5 extra classes and more quests.

That's like bitching about it costing extra to supersize your fries in your value menu item

 

 

1. It does say it's free.  I've highlighted the part you've apparently glossed over.
2. Free Realms isn't "free".  The software and a fair chunk of content are free, but not all of the content.   As such, Free Realms isn't free.
3. I'm not bitching about it. In my post, I clearly state I don't mind the revenue model. I also  understand  that the name "Free Realms" is more about the freedom you can experience within the game, not necessarily the price. That being said, I'm an adult. Kids won't necessarily understand that "Free Realms" doesn't mean the game is free, especially when the website says "Free Realms is a free 3D virtual world". Semantically, that's true. The "world" is free in that you don't have to pay for the software. That's the part that's potentially misleading, especially in conjunction with the name.

Thanks for playing.  You just bumped up my "Over NNNN served" count...

~Ripper

Originally posted by rhinok

Originally posted by sinloi

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by rhinok

you do have a point, to a certain extent.  On the Free Realms "What is FreeRealms?" website, it clearly states:

"Free Realms is a free 3D virtual world with stunning unique graphics and fun, quirky activities. Free Realmsis an attitude. It's innovative, dynamic and deep. Welcome to Free Realms, where there's so much to see and explore!"

This is a little misleading, because it implies that the game is F2P, which is not the case.  Free Realms is "freemium" game that is a hybrid of some f2p content/additional subscriber content/cash shop goodies.  I don't mind this model as long as it's implemented in a fair and balanced manner.  We'll need to wait and see what happens.

~Ripper

I fully agree - the game should not have been called Free Realms

 

I really don't see how it's misleading. The clearly say Free realms is an attitude.  If you some how can twsit that to mean it's free you have the reasoning and logic skills to be a lawyer.

 

no where in that does it say it is in fact free.

 

The worst part is....IT IS FREE!!!!!!

your bitching about 5 bucks a month so you cna get 5 extra classes and more quests.

That's like bitching about it costing extra to supersize your fries in your value menu item

 

 

1. It does say it's free.  I've highlighted the part you've apparently glossed over.
2. Free Realms isn't "free".  The software and a fair chunk of content are free, but not all of the content.   As such, Free Realms isn't free.
3. I'm not bitching about it. In my post, I clearly state I don't mind the revenue model. I also  understand  that the name "Free Realms" is more about the freedom you can experience within the game, not necessarily the price. That being said, I'm an adult. Kids won't necessarily understand that "Free Realms" doesn't mean the game is free, especially when the website says "Free Realms is a free 3D virtual world". Semantically, that's true. The "world" is free in that you don't have to pay for the software. That's the part that's potentially misleading, especially in conjunction with the name.

Thanks for playing.  You just bumped up my "Over NNNN served" count...

~Ripper

 

So what your saying is that when this game is released I wont be able to play for free?

That's all I want to know can I play any part of this game free

it still stands that with

Brawler, ninja, card duelist, chef, miner, pet trainer, adventurer, demoltion driver, kart racer,  postman.

then paid

warrior, archer, wizard, blacksmith, medic

ummmm yea I'd say that's a free game.

if you don't want to be a wizard that's fine don't pay 5 bucks a month. Play as one of the other 10 freaking classes.

I recommend ninja and card duelist they are both fun, and no I have not bought any cards, all of the cards I use in my deck I earned through FREE in game quests.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY THEM ANYTHING TO PLAY.

I can't possibly make that any clearer.

God I remember when MMOs were 9 bucks a month. Now most mmos are 15 dollars a month and your complaining about spending an optional 5 bucks a month.

If you want extra stuff spend the 5 dang dollars if you don't then be a freaking Ninja who race cars that sounds a lot more exciting then a medic that makes armor anyways.

 I agree, it's a free game. Runescape is considered free, this will be no different.

I'm trying to recall when "mmos were $9 a month"...

I think you have it backwards. The original text mmos had hourly charges. Gemstone was hosted on GEnie and as such originally cost $6 an hour nights and weekends, $12 an hour during the week.

The first cheap game I know of was Legends of Future Past, a steal at $0.50 an hour.

I recall when the first unlimited accounts were being sold for $50 a month, no limit on hours played.

Near as I can tell, with a small exception here and there, mmos have either dropped in price, or stayed the same, depending on how far back you go.

As to Free Realms, the game seems to have a lot more for non-paying players than any other non-subscription game I've seen. Unlike Wizard 101 they don't lock you into the starting area. Unlike ToonTown they let you continue to quest and reach max level in the available non-member classes. Unlike Dungeon Runners you aren't forced to pay to wear anything worthwhile.

So yeah, there are fun things to buy with real cash, and a few extra classes and quest areas for paid members, but the game is playable on an ongoing basis for people who live by the "free".

Originally posted by Servase

Originally posted by Gameloading

That is for a premium account. works the same way as games such as Tibia and Runescape.

 

Ya but I thought it was going to be completely free. Plus the article didn't mention it was for a premium account. i guess that makes sense. But originally it was supposed to be 100% free no matter what. Then of course theres the micro-transaction to enhance your character with the use of real money. I don't recall ever reading anything where SOE stated they would charge for a premium account. i remember it was just supposed to be free.

 

Now it's $5/mo for a single account and $10/mo for a family account. But it makes no mention of that being for a premium.

100% free no matter what??? you think developers are in the business of spending millions then run costly servers for free?This type of F2P concept was obviously marketed and found to be  profitable by Korean developers.The idea allows some to play for free while banking on others to make up for the slack.So it allows each player to play at their own expense.So basically if you can afford more,you enjoy more and if you cannot,you enjoy less.

Most and myself included do not like this system because it will be a game designed to draw out a large expsense to those who want to enjoy the game at it's fullest intent,usually a cost 3/4/5x a normal monthly subscription.This is all due to the fact that someone has to pay for all the freeloaders,NOTHING in this world runs or operates for free,not even drinking water.

Originally posted by JackFetch

I'm trying to recall when "mmos were $9 a month"...

I think you have it backwards. The original text mmos had hourly charges. Gemstone was hosted on GEnie and as such originally cost $6 an hour nights and weekends, $12 an hour during the week.

The first cheap game I know of was Legends of Future Past, a steal at $0.50 an hour.

I recall when the first unlimited accounts were being sold for $50 a month, no limit on hours played.

Near as I can tell, with a small exception here and there, mmos have either dropped in price, or stayed the same, depending on how far back you go.

As to Free Realms, the game seems to have a lot more for non-paying players than any other non-subscription game I've seen. Unlike Wizard 101 they don't lock you into the starting area. Unlike ToonTown they let you continue to quest and reach max level in the available non-member classes. Unlike Dungeon Runners you aren't forced to pay to wear anything worthwhile.

So yeah, there are fun things to buy with real cash, and a few extra classes and quest areas for paid members, but the game is playable on an ongoing basis for people who live by the "free".

wow that was before even my time I honestly started on UO EQ1 and Gamestorm. all three were 9.99, well gamestorm was 9.95 but that was splitting hairs(Damn you EA for removing that service).

within acouple years the first 2 jumped to about 12.99 but they did start at 9.99

"Most and myself included do not like this system because it will be a game designed to draw out a large expsense to those who want to enjoy the game at it's fullest intent,usually a cost 3/4/5x a normal monthly subscription.This is all due to the fact that someone has to pay for all the freeloaders,NOTHING in this world runs or operates for free,not even drinking water."

wow....you plan on paying 74 bucks a month?

On what tiki masks, top hats and yorkshire terriers?

This isn't WOW You do not desperatly need epic gear to defeat a robgoblin.

live within your means my friend if your spending 74.95 on this game a month you are doing something horribly wrong.

This is like saying that to use the nintendo wii to it's fullest extent you would have to buy every Virtual Console game on the system.

Don't be so materialistic especially when the materials are virtual.

Honestly at this point I could care less because it's YOU who feels that to get the full use of this game YOU must buy every dog on their marketplace. Remember YOUR the one that feels YOU need to buy everything. Hell I don't even think SOE believes or thinks that.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273825999151

please watch this video. It's about how Sigmund freuds nephew succeeded to turn america into a wants based society instead of a needs based.

You'll learn why you think you want something that you really don't want.

Originally posted by sinloi

Originally posted by JackFetch 

wow....you plan on paying 74 bucks a month?

On what tiki masks, top hats and yorkshire terriers?

This isn't WOW You do not desperatly need epic gear to defeat a robgoblin.

live within your means my friend if your spending 74.95 on this game a month you are doing something horribly wrong.

This is like saying that to use the nintendo wii to it's fullest extent you would have to buy every Virtual Console game on the system.

Don't be so materialistic especially when the materials are virtual.

 

Honestly at this point I could care less because it's YOU who feels that to get the full use of this game YOU must buy every dog on their marketplace. Remember YOUR the one that feels YOU need to buy everything. Hell I don't even think SOE believes or thinks that.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273825999151

please watch this video. It's about how Sigmund freuds nephew succeeded to turn america into a wants based society instead of a needs based.

You'll learn why you think you want something that you really don't want.

Keep in mind this is a game aimed at children and not adults.  The bulk of this games playerbase will not have the financial responsibility or experience to understand the system.  There will be just as many parents who are not net savy enough to understand what is happening either. 

Anyone who thinks this games "velvet rope" approach is designed to do anything other than increase the average subscription fee above and beyond 14.95 a month is just not being honest with themselves, otherwise soe would just charge that.  Every large scale mmo they have they are already trying to squeeze extra money out of the players with micro transactions, because they think everything should have an additional pricetag on it. 

Saying this game is free is also like saying chronicles of spellborn is free since you can play up to level 20 as much as you want.  Each game is designed to let you play limited content to entice subscriptions or in the case of free realms, mictro transaction, card games, etc.  There are very few true "free" games, but at the same time some people have to high of expectations of a free mmo. 

Originally posted by Fibsdk

If they gave refunds to redeem themselves then they did what was ethical. A refund is all anybody can ask for as restitution for something not delivered.

The refund was offered to avoid legal issues. It was not done to redeem their image in the slightest. 

Also offering a refund does not undue the intentional deception practiced by the company or the manner in which they conducted themselves towards their playerbase that got them into the situation in the first place.  It wasn't an oversight or a mistake.  It was purposefully planned and carried out.  The results backfiring does not change the intentions one bit.   Future actions cannot change what transpired in the past.

Originally posted by eccoton 

 

SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior. SOE changes some games without consulting all it's players, so what. They added item malls to some games after saying they weren't, so what. They ruined SWG with NGE and paid a huge price for it, so what. How is any of that unethical? I have been a customer of SONY for over 3 decades. While I was unhappy with SWG-nge I have never seen any unethical behavior as so many whiney SOE "hater" love to claim when they attack anything SOE does.

Simply slapping the word opinion onto a false statement does not make it infallable.

You point out several aspects of unethical behavior in this post right here and your choice to downplay the effects or focus on the results doesn't change the nature of what transpired.

Either lieing and false promises are ethical or they are not.  You seem incapable of backing up your matter of factly stated opinion and at the same time have the gaul to call someone else crazy (with emoticon) for saying soe is unethical. 

Never seen sony do anything unethical?  Here you go

Here they are getting caught false advertising (remember this is the division that was in charge of soe at the time)

arstechnica.com/old/content/2005/08/5165.ars

How about the sony rootkit scandel

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Sony_BMG_CD_copy_protection_scandal

There is plenty more, but that is beside the point.  No they are not alone as a company with these actions, but it doesn't matter what other companies do either.  The whole two wrongs not making a right and all.  I just wanted to point out that yes they have done unethical actions as a company even though you have not noticed them in your 3 decades of patronage. 

Anyhow, you say that soe lieing and making false promises are not unethical.  Yet there are many professions that are bound by codes of ethics and laws that prevent this very thing from happening.   Most of those rules revolve around preventing this very type of behavior.

Could your stock broker lie to you and break promises?  Could your doctor?  Could a judge?  Can a company lie and make false promises on its financial reports?  So on and so on. 

You are pointing at actions that have precidents in the business world as being clearly spelled out as unethical and saying they are not unethical for the simple reason that you choose to ignore everything.  Maybe they are not illegal activities in this case, but that has no bearing on the ethical nature of a companies actions.

Can you back up your statements by saying in no uncertain terms that lieing and making false promises is ethical?  I doubt you can, because you know it would be a false statement, regardless of if you want to call it an opinion or not.