Don't know why I am here other than I just read 50% of this argument. I am dumbfounded as to how many newcomers there are here and how loud-mouthed and basicaly confratational and wrong you wannabee's are!!

The term "sandbox" is not new term and what it means, cannot be changed because a newbie fanboi feels like using it as a defense mechnism.

Darkfall is in no way a Sanbox MMORPG!

Everquest is more a "sandbox" and open-ended than Darkfall... even though DFO is suppose to have open-world and be classless.

Because Darkfall has no veriety within those core elements!  It's a Class-free game, yet you don't see anyone playing roles within combat.  Thus, Darkfall's system is clearly limited and not open-ended.

Feature by feature -  Darkfall has two sandbox elements, that are extremely restrictive and confining. Thus even Darkfall's combat and skill tree are unworthy of the sandbox name. Yet, even in Everquest Warriors harvested, and learned alchemy because they couldn't gate (portal spell), so they learned other means in which to remove themselves from a dungeon, battle, etc.

I would really like to investigate many claims of why people ignorantly think Darkfall is a sandbox game. I played it, followed it for some time and just didn't see the value in this game. But I'm not delusional and understand the shortcomming of this game and why it isn't even a niche game. Perhaps those who feel that Darkfall is a Sandbox MMORPG could explain the game history and what they liked about the "other" games they played.

And why you think Darkfall offers a "sanbox" feel.

This game is not sandbox. People just call it a sandbox MMO because they think that makes them cool.

A sandbox in terms of gaming starts with nothing and you create it. There are mobs, you do have to level up your skills you really don't get to create the world around you in this game. Just because you can do whatever you want is not the same as creating it. In other MMOs you can still become a PvP master or Crafting Master. Just because in some MMORPGs you have to do quests to get there is not taking away from you goal. You are reaching your goal by doing said quests to become better at them... ala the RPG in the MMO.

 This game is no more sandbox than any other mmo. This just has less content which i guess is fooling some people into thinking it's "sandbox."

Ok the reason Darkfall is sandbox.........is because if you go out of town........anyone can kill you and loot you. That pretty much makes it diffrent than all the ones you listed. It is also skill based. You use a sword you gain swords. Its not just running around in a safe haven killing mobs to gain exp that gives you exp in everything. You sprint ...you gain sprint......you swim you gain swim. you rest you gain rest. Its not go here kill this to such and such a level....then go to this place. QUESTION ANSWERED.

I am neither. I am actually playing the game and enjoying it. I guess you could call me opinionated. Your just one of those people who have not got an account yet and given it a try. I am not here to fight like most children do. Opinions are like arseholes everyones got one.....I gave my opinion.....you didnt like it.......move on then.

Obviously my definition of sandbox differs from others.

Darkfall is pretty much a sandbox. The players determine the economy, and since they can create anything in the game, the prices are stabilizing depending the need. One thing I noticed, was how the price or iron ore went up shortly after a patch that caused weapon and armor durabilities to shorten and break.

Once again, players determined the pricing.

Stealth, in Darkfall, is not a button you can press. It's an act you perform in any way you can. You literally have to create your method of stealth. I'm not about to reveal mine, but some obvious factors are, hugging to shadows, hiding behind bushes and trees, staying out of the periphery of other people. Even the weapon you use becomes important. If you use magic, you'll have a magical glowing aura around you and be much easier to detect. But if you use a bow and arrow, a sniper shot can be near impossible to figure.

Therefore, stealth is determined by the player.

Politics, in Darkfall, is more complicated than an any other game of played. Now, it doesn't matter who you are simply allied with or at war with. It matters what other people in the area think about you. A clan I'm involved with literally had a meeting with all their allies, simply to determine if moving to another area was worthwhile. They sent "spies" to the are, which was quite a long journey, to gather information about other clans in the area. Troop sizes, races, current warring factions, the availability of resources.

And so, political sparring is very much controlled by the players.

Those are just a few reasons why I consider it to be a sandbox.

Ladies, gentlieman, the game has so far impressed me. What hasn't impressed me, though,  is the number of crashes and the hacking. To balance out my "glowing" commentary, those issues absolutely need to be addressed and eradicated.

Originally posted by Shikkadance

I am neither. I am actually playing the game and enjoying it. I guess you could call me opinionated. Your just one of those people who have not got an account yet and given it a try. I am not here to fight like most children do. Opinions are like arseholes everyones got one.....I gave my opinion.....you didnt like it.......move on then.

No, I do believe your post was based off ignorance. Because Everquest was founded upon skills. But skill related to you as a citizen, person or class. When you meditated, you gained skill in meditation. The higher your skill, the greater the amount of mane you received every tick you were siting and meditating. Once you gained a certain skill, you no longer had to look at the spell book while you meditated. That illustrated your beginning master of this skill and were able to do more than just meditate, but now could look around..etc.

Swimming was the exact same way. The better you got at swiming meant the fast you could swim.

Evade, dual wielding, block, swim, archery, baking, language, Attack, conjuration, safe fall, hide, kick...etc

I can go on & on & on..  Everquest has more skills than Darkfall has Abilities or even spells. Darkfall is extrmely limited for a game released in 2009. It cannot even claim to have more open-ended features than Everquest or Ultima Online. Both of which were released 10 years ago.

Perhaps newbies like Shikk, never knew of these games or their features. But it's clear he doesn't understand the interaction between character skills and abilities.

Originally posted by cukimunga

Originally posted by daarco

Originally posted by altairzq

Because you can do anything you want, if all you want is fighting.

 

Isnt this a bit "shortminded" for this thread? You know there is more to do then combat. You know many play just to be a crafter, trade, explorer or guild leader.

 

Can't you do that in any game where you have those features? For instance in WoW I could be those things, I could just do nothing but crafting or,  I could just go around exploring all day, and never fight one thing If I don't want to. I know,  I know WoW is a theme park game but you can still only do those things if you really wanted to.  You cannot.  In WoW you need lvl 35 to lvl a crafting skill to skill 300.  You need lvl 45 to raise to 375.  You need lvl 45 to go cap 450.  As for collection, yes you can max collection skills any level you want, but you need to kill a 75+ mob to skin you way to cap 450.  You cannot do that at character lvl 1.

 

You don't have to kill things in any game  if you don't want to, but you won't get to a higher level combat wise if you don't.  But I play these types of games to go on an adventure and kill things as well be those things on the side..  Just like in DnD I played as an adventurer, it would be boring if all i did in dnd is craft things and build houses.  Thats just me of course and its cool if thats all what people want to do, im fine with that.  You need to kill things to get hide, to clear path to herbs.  You need to kill things to get the rare recipes, you need to kill things to get reputation for reputation recipes.

Features I call sandbox would be.

 

1) Building things wherever you want to.

2) Players actions influence the game world for everyone not just them selves. e.g.  if im a orc and I start killing a bunch of humans, the humans will hate all orc players. Unlike WoW where if I kill a faction and they just hate me and not my whole race. Also there could be ways to get on their good side again if you wanted to.

3) The freedom to do whatever you want without being gimped in some sort of way. 

That's all I can think of right now but I think a lot of people have the misconseption of what a sandbox game is. What did you do when you were young and played in the sandbox? You built things and manipulated the sand how you wanted it to be.

A sandbox game  to me = players can manipulate the game for all others to see and their actions effect all players. Thats all simple as that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am a WoW player.  I like the way the game provides variety.  But in this specific area of crafting, WoW is a bit restrictive.  I am forced to level my crafting toon to 45 and later to max level b/c i need reputation, and you do not start getting quests to open up factions and then grind reputating, until say 78 (for sons of holdir).

Sorry but that's just not right. A lot of other MMOs players determine the economy. Maybe not to the extent but a sandbox mmo is not determinded by "the extent" a sandbox is called that because well it's like sand in that there is nothing and you create what is there like sand castles for example.

Everything people are saying is in other MMOs... again the only reason people think this is sandbox is because of the lack of content. It's kind of a joke. fyi there are other mmos where anyone can attack you outside of the city ect ect.

If you like the game then you like the game and that's great. But trying to defend it as a sandbox mmo is kinda silly.

Put down your swords and play EQ 2...

Originally posted by Orthedos

I am a WoW player.  I like the way the game provides variety.  But in this specific area of crafting, WoW is a bit restrictive.  I am forced to level my crafting toon to 45 and later to max level b/c i need reputation, and you do not start getting quests to open up factions and then grind reputating, until say 78 (for sons of holdir).

To be fair, it's there for a very good reason, as otherwise you'd have people powerlevelling professions on level one characters to allow themselves to be entirely self sufficient. (Which is almost never good in an MMO.)

EDIT: Dear god, do the Darkfall kiddies report EVERY non-Darkfall post they see?

Originally posted by Shikkadance

Ok the reason Darkfall is sandbox.........is because if you go out of town........anyone can kill you and loot you. That pretty much makes it diffrent than all the ones you listed. It is also skill based. You use a sword you gain swords. Its not just running around in a safe haven killing mobs to gain exp that gives you exp in everything. You sprint ...you gain sprint......you swim you gain swim. you rest you gain rest. Its not go here kill this to such and such a level....then go to this place. QUESTION ANSWERED.

You have no clue whatsoever what a sandbox game is.

QUESTION NOT ANSWERED.

Originally posted by Anvil_Theory

 

Don't know why I am here other than I just read 50% of this argument. I am dumbfounded as to how many newcomers there are here and how loud-mouthed and basicaly confratational and wrong you wannabee's are!!

The term "sandbox" is not new term and what it means, cannot be changed because a newbie fanboi feels like using it as a defense mechnism.

Darkfall is in no way a Sanbox MMORPG!

Everquest is more a "sandbox" and open-ended than Darkfall... even though DFO is suppose to have open-world and be classless.

Because Darkfall has no veriety within those core elements!  It's a Class-free game, yet you don't see anyone playing roles within combat.  Thus, Darkfall's system is clearly limited and not open-ended.

Feature by feature -  Darkfall has two sandbox elements, that are extremely restrictive and confining. Thus even Darkfall's combat and skill tree are unworthy of the sandbox name. Yet, even in Everquest Warriors harvested, and learned alchemy because they couldn't gate (portal spell), so they learned other means in which to remove themselves from a dungeon, battle, etc.

 

I would really like to investigate many claims of why people ignorantly think Darkfall is a sandbox game. I played it, followed it for some time and just didn't see the value in this game. But I'm not delusional and understand the shortcomming of this game and why it isn't even a niche game. Perhaps those who feel that Darkfall is a Sandbox MMORPG could explain the game history and what they liked about the "other" games they played.

And why you think Darkfall offers a "sanbox" feel.

Your definition and examples are nothing like what 'sandbox' is generally accepted to mean.

the 'purest' definition of sandbox is whether the game is primarily based on player-created content versus developer-created content.

darkfall is unquestioningly a sandbox game. re-read the first 2 replies in the thread for specifics.

Originally posted by javac

Your definition and examples are nothing like what 'sandbox' is generally accepted to mean.

 

the 'purest' definition of sandbox is whether the game is primarily based on player-created content versus developer-created content.

 

darkfall is unquestioningly a sandbox game. re-read the first 2 replies in the thread for specifics.

I fail to see any player created content in Darkfall.

Originally posted by Hhussk

Politics, in Darkfall, is more complicated than an any other game of played. Now, it doesn't matter who you are simply allied with or at war with. It matters what other people in the area think about you. A clan I'm involved with literally had a meeting with all their allies, simply to determine if moving to another area was worthwhile. They sent "spies" to the are, which was quite a long journey, to gather information about other clans in the area. Troop sizes, races, current warring factions, the availability of resources.

And so, political sparring is very much controlled by the players.

We who play EVE would challenge your assertion.  Lineage 2 players have had outstanding player politics for years as well.

But this thread is about DF, and I agree, the player politics is a key component in determining if DF is a sandbox type game. Players control and defend territory to a greater extent than a more linear game.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Hhussk

Politics, in Darkfall, is more complicated than an any other game of played. Now, it doesn't matter who you are simply allied with or at war with. It matters what other people in the area think about you. A clan I'm involved with literally had a meeting with all their allies, simply to determine if moving to another area was worthwhile. They sent "spies" to the are, which was quite a long journey, to gather information about other clans in the area. Troop sizes, races, current warring factions, the availability of resources.

And so, political sparring is very much controlled by the players.

 

 

We who play EVE would challenge your assertion.  Lineage 2 players have had outstanding player politics for years as well.

But this thread is about DF, and I agree, the player politics is a key component in determining if DF is a sandbox type game. Players control and defend territory to a greater extent than a more linear game.

 

 

 

Whats so outstanding with Lineage 2's and Darkfall's political system?

It's just a system of Lords, Vassals and Peasants like you had in the real world a millennia ago.

The Lords will be the leaders of powerful guilds, the vassals will be the members of that guild plus the members of lesser guilds in alliance with the powerful guild, the peasants will be guildless players or players in weak guilds.

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by Anvil_Theory

 

Don't know why I am here other than I just read 50% of this argument. I am dumbfounded as to how many newcomers there are here and how loud-mouthed and basicaly confratational and wrong you wannabee's are!!

The term "sandbox" is not new term and what it means, cannot be changed because a newbie fanboi feels like using it as a defense mechnism.

Darkfall is in no way a Sanbox MMORPG!

Everquest is more a "sandbox" and open-ended than Darkfall... even though DFO is suppose to have open-world and be classless.

Because Darkfall has no veriety within those core elements!  It's a Class-free game, yet you don't see anyone playing roles within combat.  Thus, Darkfall's system is clearly limited and not open-ended.

Feature by feature -  Darkfall has two sandbox elements, that are extremely restrictive and confining. Thus even Darkfall's combat and skill tree are unworthy of the sandbox name. Yet, even in Everquest Warriors harvested, and learned alchemy because they couldn't gate (portal spell), so they learned other means in which to remove themselves from a dungeon, battle, etc.

 

I would really like to investigate many claims of why people ignorantly think Darkfall is a sandbox game. I played it, followed it for some time and just didn't see the value in this game. But I'm not delusional and understand the shortcomming of this game and why it isn't even a niche game. Perhaps those who feel that Darkfall is a Sandbox MMORPG could explain the game history and what they liked about the "other" games they played.

And why you think Darkfall offers a "sanbox" feel.

 

Your definition and examples are nothing like what 'sandbox' is generally accepted to mean.

 

the 'purest' definition of sandbox is whether the game is primarily based on player-created content versus developer-created content.

 

darkfall is unquestioningly a sandbox game. re-read the first 2 replies in the thread for specifics.

hmm..   did you even read my post?   *scratches head*

I directly refute your arguement above. Restrictive combat is not open-ended. Therefore your choices are limited and not based on the sandbox principals.

Content has nothing to do with whether a game is sanbox or not, it what you can do with the said content, that makes it a sandbox style game. Classless (skill based) games, typically have a sandbox feel to them, unless the skill tree is more limited amd small. Where as some class based games have massive build-outs and allow for greater diversity.

Since in Darkfall you cannot play traditional roles, (the developer's ideas and vision weren't that deep)... you are left with limited abilities within Darkfall. Melee combat is used 90% of almost all deaths, instead of a plethora on debuffing, doting, criticle healing, nukes, arrow flurries, backstabs w/poison...etc.

Instead, you have overhead swing and slash+knockback...

Extremely limiting. Even after 4 weeks of playing you have less abilities,less attack, less veriety than a lvl 5 Warrior in Everquest. So, the term sandbox is used as a feature by feature context. No amount of trolling or backpadeling is going to change the ignorance in your statements!

Originally posted by Anvil_Theory 

Since in Darkfall you cannot play traditional roles, (the developer's ideas and vision weren't that deep)... you are left with limited abilities within Darkfall. Melee combat is used 90% of almost all deaths, instead of a plethora on debuffing, doting, criticle healing, nukes, arrow flurries, backstabs w/poison...etc.

Instead, you have overhead swing and slash+knockback...

Extremely limiting. Even after 4 weeks of playing you have less abilities,less attack, less veriety than a lvl 5 Warrior in Everquest. So, the term sandbox is used as a feature by feature context. No amount of trolling or backpadeling is going to change the ignorance in your statements!

Interesting, save for the reality of the game itself...

Darkfall is no more a sandbox than Shadowbane was.

Both offered large, empty and open worlds.

Both offered building of cities in pre-determined locations in dev controlled layouts.

Both offered FFA PvP.

Both offered only a few viable player roles.

I love reading the threads that say you can be whatever you want in Darkfall. No, you can't. To be successful, you will raise melee, magic, AND archery. You will also wear the heaviest armor you can find since there is no truly negative effect once you get your armor related skills raised up. You can't be nothing but a crafter because it just isn't possible. You need mats to make items, you need gold to make items, you need to kill things to get gold. Sure, you could sell your mats and then farm more to make the item, but that is just going to increase your craft time, and reduce your profits.

There is no game outside of the city sieging PvP game. The PvE SUCKs. The crafting SUCKS (deny this and you are on crack, or you just love self initiated abuse). There are two roles you can play in Darkfall, the first is PvP player, the second is PvP player that makes items. That's it. Compare that to something like UO or SWG and you will see exactly why Darkfall isn't a true sandbox.

A large, empty world =/= sandbox. A sandbox is a game with true player created content, not just cities built in the spots the devs allowed them to be built for the sole purpose of grinding and PVP. That's all the cities really are in truth. They are nothing more than a place for guilds to grind so they can PVP, and a place where PVP happens. That does not make a game a sandbox. A sandbox needs to offer players that want nothing more than PvE a game to play; players that want nothing more than PVP a game to play; players that want nothing more than crafting a game to play; players that want to run a tavern a game to play; players that want to be a thief WITHOUT killing a game to play; etc, etc.

Sandboxes are made by fluff and true choice, not just an open world with player built cities. Too many of you confuse Darkfall's lack of content for being a sandbox. The game Darkfall was SUPPOSED to be would have been a sandbox, the game we got is a huge team deathmatch with player made items.

For the record, I will not deny that Darkfall is open ended and mildly enjoyable. Unlike some of you in this thread, I actually play it so I speak from experience. I will also say that it does have the foundation for being a sandbox, or the box if you will, but it is lacking in the sand.

Originally posted by Anvil_Theory

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by Anvil_Theory

 

Don't know why I am here other than I just read 50% of this argument. I am dumbfounded as to how many newcomers there are here and how loud-mouthed and basicaly confratational and wrong you wannabee's are!!

The term "sandbox" is not new term and what it means, cannot be changed because a newbie fanboi feels like using it as a defense mechnism.

Darkfall is in no way a Sanbox MMORPG!

Everquest is more a "sandbox" and open-ended than Darkfall... even though DFO is suppose to have open-world and be classless.

Because Darkfall has no veriety within those core elements!  It's a Class-free game, yet you don't see anyone playing roles within combat.  Thus, Darkfall's system is clearly limited and not open-ended.

Feature by feature -  Darkfall has two sandbox elements, that are extremely restrictive and confining. Thus even Darkfall's combat and skill tree are unworthy of the sandbox name. Yet, even in Everquest Warriors harvested, and learned alchemy because they couldn't gate (portal spell), so they learned other means in which to remove themselves from a dungeon, battle, etc.

 

I would really like to investigate many claims of why people ignorantly think Darkfall is a sandbox game. I played it, followed it for some time and just didn't see the value in this game. But I'm not delusional and understand the shortcomming of this game and why it isn't even a niche game. Perhaps those who feel that Darkfall is a Sandbox MMORPG could explain the game history and what they liked about the "other" games they played.

And why you think Darkfall offers a "sanbox" feel.

 

Your definition and examples are nothing like what 'sandbox' is generally accepted to mean.

 

the 'purest' definition of sandbox is whether the game is primarily based on player-created content versus developer-created content.

 

darkfall is unquestioningly a sandbox game. re-read the first 2 replies in the thread for specifics.

 

hmm..   did you even read my post?   *scratches head*

I directly refute your arguement above. Restrictive combat is not open-ended. Therefore your choices are limited and not based on the sandbox principals.

Content has nothing to do with whether a game is sanbox or not, it what you can do with the said content, that makes it a sandbox style game. Classless (skill based) games, typically have a sandbox feel to them, unless the skill tree is more limited amd small. Where as some class based games have massive build-outs and allow for greater diversity.

Since in Darkfall you cannot play traditional roles, (the developer's ideas and vision weren't that deep)... you are left with limited abilities within Darkfall. Melee combat is used 90% of almost all deaths, instead of a plethora on debuffing, doting, criticle healing, nukes, arrow flurries, backstabs w/poison...etc.

Instead, you have overhead swing and slash+knockback...

Extremely limiting. Even after 4 weeks of playing you have less abilities,less attack, less veriety than a lvl 5 Warrior in Everquest. So, the term sandbox is used as a feature by feature context. No amount of trolling or backpadeling is going to change the ignorance in your statements!

nothing is apparently going to change your totally wrong understanding of what 'sandbox' means. the fact is, you can be whatever you want in Darkfall, therefore it's sandbox. a warlock in WOW will always be a warlock.

DUH.

Originally posted by SignusM

No zones

No instances

No levels

No classes

No limit to what you can fight

No limit to what you can craft

No limit to where you can go. 

 

Think that pretty much covers it. 

QFE, for the dummies.