Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by miagisan

so how does a new person level up if starter weapons dont let you level?

me thinks AV floundered this one yet again.......

noobs dont have any real gold, so cant buy from crafters.

so basically....get in with a weaponsmith or take up weaponsmithing for like a week??

 

Kill goblin, loot gold and weapon.  If weapon is not your type, use gold at vendor.  A goblin drops 5 gold, you can buy a vendor weapon for like 30 gold?  It's not really that complicated or different than any other MMO.

 

It's about choice and freedom.  If a person wants to live naked and skill all the way to max in starter gear, why stop them?  This game was sold on the fact that even when you die, you come back armed and fully capable of defeating geared players.  You don't go changing that now because people choose to live naked and people are WHINING because they get nothing off a naked player but a naked player gets loot off a geared play.  PLEASE, CRY ME A RIVER.  Last time I checked this is suppose to be DARKFALL ONLINE and not HELLO KITTY ONLINE. 

*edit*  I can't believe I'm here defending people's choices and freedoms in DFO.  You'd expect a fanbois to do this job.

 

   

I agree with this.  Whats wrong with taking advantage of a game mechanic that is available to everyone?  However when people whine loud enough the dev team will jump in to satisfy them even if that whine might come from the minority.   

Originally posted by Spiritof55

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by miagisan

so how does a new person level up if starter weapons dont let you level?

me thinks AV floundered this one yet again.......

noobs dont have any real gold, so cant buy from crafters.

so basically....get in with a weaponsmith or take up weaponsmithing for like a week??

 

Kill goblin, loot gold and weapon.  If weapon is not your type, use gold at vendor.  A goblin drops 5 gold, you can buy a vendor weapon for like 30 gold?  It's not really that complicated or different than any other MMO.

 

It's about choice and freedom.  If a person wants to live naked and skill all the way to max in starter gear, why stop them?  This game was sold on the fact that even when you die, you come back armed and fully capable of defeating geared players.  You don't go changing that now because people choose to live naked and people are WHINING because they get nothing off a naked player but a naked player gets loot off a geared play.  PLEASE, CRY ME A RIVER.  Last time I checked this is suppose to be DARKFALL ONLINE and not HELLO KITTY ONLINE. 

*edit*  I can't believe I'm here defending people's choices and freedoms in DFO.  You'd expect a fanbois to do this job.

 

   

 

I agree with this.  Whats wrong with taking advantage of a game mechanic that is available to everyone?  However when people whine loud enough the dev team will jump in to satisfy them even if that whine might come from the minority.   

 The problem is invalidates about half of the game's design. Full loot? Pointless. Crafting weapons and gear? Pointless. PvE?  Pointless.  It's like when people complain bout how long it takes to farm. The point isn't to waste your time it's to get you out in the field farming where you can be attacked by other players. If small group PvP consists solely of people rinning around naked wacking each other it becomes stale and disappears much the same way it does in a game with a single overpowering class. If one activity dominates the game to the exclusion of all others the game becomes a vacant wasteland when enough people tire of that activity.

BTW this is one of the many things that were predicted to happen in game that fanbois denied. Now they're beginning to understand why the prediction was made.  They'll still never admit it though.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Spiritof55

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by miagisan

so how does a new person level up if starter weapons dont let you level?

me thinks AV floundered this one yet again.......

noobs dont have any real gold, so cant buy from crafters.

so basically....get in with a weaponsmith or take up weaponsmithing for like a week??

 

Kill goblin, loot gold and weapon.  If weapon is not your type, use gold at vendor.  A goblin drops 5 gold, you can buy a vendor weapon for like 30 gold?  It's not really that complicated or different than any other MMO.

 

It's about choice and freedom.  If a person wants to live naked and skill all the way to max in starter gear, why stop them?  This game was sold on the fact that even when you die, you come back armed and fully capable of defeating geared players.  You don't go changing that now because people choose to live naked and people are WHINING because they get nothing off a naked player but a naked player gets loot off a geared play.  PLEASE, CRY ME A RIVER.  Last time I checked this is suppose to be DARKFALL ONLINE and not HELLO KITTY ONLINE. 

*edit*  I can't believe I'm here defending people's choices and freedoms in DFO.  You'd expect a fanbois to do this job.

 

   

 

I agree with this.  Whats wrong with taking advantage of a game mechanic that is available to everyone?  However when people whine loud enough the dev team will jump in to satisfy them even if that whine might come from the minority.   

 

 The problem is invalidates about half of the game's design. Full loot? Pointless. Crafting weapons and gear? Pointless. PvE?  Pointless.  It's like when people complain bout how long it takes to farm. The point isn't to waste your time it's to get you out in the field farming where you can be attacked by other players. If small group PvP consists solely of people rinning around naked wacking each other it becomes stale and disappears much the same way it does in a game with a single overpowering class. If one activity dominates the game to the exclusion of all others the game becomes a vacant wasteland when enough people tire of that activity.

BTW this is one of the many things that were predicted to happen in game that fanbois denied. Now they're beginning to understand why the prediction was made.  They'll still never admit it though.

sadly the nerf added to the newb starter wep does Nothing to deter the same thing that is ruining the game.

the wep skill gain does not deter anyone from ganking people naked and get items.

what needed to be nerfed was the dmg the weapon does not the skill gain. or  even make you go to an npc to regain the newb wep would have been much better than a stupid you dont get skill with it nerf.

the devs are fucking clueless and they show that they do not listen.

Originally posted by mcquaided

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 

 The problem is invalidates about half of the game's design. Full loot? Pointless. Crafting weapons and gear? Pointless. PvE?  Pointless.  It's like when people complain bout how long it takes to farm. The point isn't to waste your time it's to get you out in the field farming where you can be attacked by other players. If small group PvP consists solely of people rinning around naked wacking each other it becomes stale and disappears much the same way it does in a game with a single overpowering class. If one activity dominates the game to the exclusion of all others the game becomes a vacant wasteland when enough people tire of that activity.

BTW this is one of the many things that were predicted to happen in game that fanbois denied. Now they're beginning to understand why the prediction was made.  They'll still never admit it though.

sadly the nerf added to the newb starter wep does Nothing to deter the same thing that is ruining the game.

the wep skill gain does not deter anyone from ganking people naked and get items.

what needed to be nerfed was the dmg the weapon does not the skill gain. or  even make you go to an npc to regain the newb wep would have been much better than a stupid you dont get skill with it nerf.

the devs are fucking clueless and they show that they do not listen.

Good point but if thy were smart they wouldn't have launched the game with such a glaring mistake to begin with. If they nerf starter weapon damage they have t nerf starter mobs which means everyone will farm starter mobs until they nerf starter mob drops and skill gains and around and around it goes.

Originally posted by bryan1980

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by Bruticus_XI

Originally posted by bryan1980

Just when I thought AV actually fixed something..

The problem people have with starter weapons is that you can pvp fairly effectively with your starter weapon.  Yes, you are at a slight disadvantage, but if you lose, you lose nothing.  Every single red I've ever encountered was naked with a newbie weapon.   You kill them almost every time, but you get nothing.  When they get lucky and kill you, they get everything.

The problem with newbie weapons was that they do to much damage compared to 'real' weapons.

AV fixed something that wasn't the real problem with starter weapons.

If anything, starter weapons should be PvE-only or they should start you in a PvE-only small zone, to be able to kill some mobs, and pick up a non-starter weapon. If the above is true, it sounds like they only "fixed" half the problem.

I think what bryan meant was that starter weapon used to be just slightly worse then real weapons. They fixed it by making starter weapon a lot less useful. This will make "naked with a starter weapon" encounters a lot less common then it used to be. That's a good thing IMO.

 

 

WOW, you really missed my point.    They did NOT make newbie weapons less useful.   Let me explain it to you

BEFORE:    PK used real weapon to kill mobs and raise skill, then he equipped his newbie weapon and went pking.  The purpose of PKing was NOT to raise skill, but to get loot.  The skill gains you get while pking are minimal compared to how easily you get them in pve or dual clanmates.

NOW:  PK used real weapon to kill mobs and raise skill, then he equipped his newbie weapon and went pking.  The purpose of PKing was NOT to raise skill, but to get loot.

Nothing changed.  They did not nerf the damage done by newbie weapons (the real problem), nor did they decrease the amount of time you could use your newbie weapon (maybe 2 weeks?).  Instead, they nerfed skill gains of newbie weapons.. which were NOT the problem.

Everyone macro's skills vs clanmates..  it doesn't matter if they are using a newbie weapon or a real weapon, they aren't going to lose it.

Players are still going to PK naked with their newbie weapon.. the only people this change effects is very new players for about 30 minutes til they get a real weapon.

Well then leave it to Aventurine to overlook such a blatantly obvious problem.

---

Originally posted by sniperg
So yes I doubt that "nerf" will affect the gameplay as negatively as you may think.

---

Sorry to say, but you're completely clueless as to how the game works. I doubt you'll be having such a great experience when you leave the newbie areas and meet some of the people who exploited bugs to get their defensive/offensive skills up in no time. They'll hit you for 4-8x the damage you hit them for, and, after the recent "fixes", it'll take you a few months to get to where they are right now.

Making the skillgain even slower than it was isn't going to fix macroing. Slow skillgain is the reason everyone's macroing like crazy. The whole game is a terribly tedious grind and the only way to stop macroing is to reduce that grind to an acceptable level. I just love hearing about how easy it is to gain skills from people who probably haven't got to 25 in any fighting skills yet, not to mention masteries or elemental magic, which require ridiculous amounts of resources and time spent casting the same spells over and over again. They'll educate you on how you should simply enjoy the game instead of worrying about the grind and all that stuff, because why would anybody in their right mind care about staying competitive in a competitive game, right?

Oh, and btw, they've accidentally introduced a bug that let's you deal insane amounts of damage with the mana missile spell. Has to do with the recent changes, but that's all I'm going to say, since I don't want to see even more exploiters running around Agon. It took people, what, only a few hours to figure this one out? And we're probably going to have to wait another week till they patch this shit up.

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by Longsnout

 Yesssss,

They did it. They removed the ability to increase weapon skills with starter weapons. Now all we need is a magic nerf and the new players will never ever advance!!!!

Aventurine knows how to show love to the first population.

Hail Tasos, praise the logs!!

 

that is actually good news. DF is all about open PvP with full loot. This way you are encouraged to wear your regular weapon and this way people do not feel frustrating for killing u and not finding anything worthy. The naked army with starter weapon was not a good thing.

Wasnt DF supposedly to be this end be all sandbox type o game? :p

Originally posted by Leucent

Desperation??? This is the easiest game to bash I ve seen in years. It seems daily they do something stupid or another mass flaw comes to ahead. You don t eveb have to try and find things they just fall onto your lap.

Well said.

Originally posted by bryan1980

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by Bruticus_XI

Originally posted by bryan1980

Just when I thought AV actually fixed something..

The problem people have with starter weapons is that you can pvp fairly effectively with your starter weapon.  Yes, you are at a slight disadvantage, but if you lose, you lose nothing.  Every single red I've ever encountered was naked with a newbie weapon.   You kill them almost every time, but you get nothing.  When they get lucky and kill you, they get everything.

The problem with newbie weapons was that they do to much damage compared to 'real' weapons.

AV fixed something that wasn't the real problem with starter weapons.

If anything, starter weapons should be PvE-only or they should start you in a PvE-only small zone, to be able to kill some mobs, and pick up a non-starter weapon. If the above is true, it sounds like they only "fixed" half the problem.

I think what bryan meant was that starter weapon used to be just slightly worse then real weapons. They fixed it by making starter weapon a lot less useful. This will make "naked with a starter weapon" encounters a lot less common then it used to be. That's a good thing IMO.

 

 

WOW, you really missed my point.    They did NOT make newbie weapons less useful.   Let me explain it to you

BEFORE:    PK used real weapon to kill mobs and raise skill, then he equipped his newbie weapon and went pking.  The purpose of PKing was NOT to raise skill, but to get loot.  The skill gains you get while pking are minimal compared to how easily you get them in pve or dual clanmates.

NOW:  PK used real weapon to kill mobs and raise skill, then he equipped his newbie weapon and went pking.  The purpose of PKing was NOT to raise skill, but to get loot.

Nothing changed.  They did not nerf the damage done by newbie weapons (the real problem), nor did they decrease the amount of time you could use your newbie weapon (maybe 2 weeks?).  Instead, they nerfed skill gains of newbie weapons.. which were NOT the problem.

Everyone macro's skills vs clanmates..  it doesn't matter if they are using a newbie weapon or a real weapon, they aren't going to lose it.

Players are still going to PK naked with their newbie weapon.. the only people this change effects is very new players for about 30 minutes til they get a real weapon.

Thank you for clearing this up for me., I did misread your post... I will have to store this "nerf" in the "stupid things done by Aventurine" folder. I'm gonna need a new folder though, the one i'm using is almostfull .

Originally posted by Longsnout

 Yesssss,

They did it. They removed the ability to increase weapon skills with starter weapons. Now all we need is a magic nerf and the new players will never ever advance!!!!

Aventurine knows how to show love to the first population.

Hail Tasos, praise the logs!!

It doesn't change anything, right now the only thing you have to do is farm some rank 0 weapons to go around that fix.

The game should allow you to train your weapon skill only with weapon of rank equal or lower by one of your skill level ( which means you can still skill up your skills with starting weapons until skill level 10 ).

Originally posted by Blindchance

Originally posted by Longsnout

 Yesssss,

They did it. They removed the ability to increase weapon skills with starter weapons. Now all we need is a magic nerf and the new players will never ever advance!!!!

Aventurine knows how to show love to the first population.

Hail Tasos, praise the logs!!

It doesn't change anything, right now the only thing you have to do is farm some rank 0 weapons to go around that fix.

The game should allow you to train your weapon skill only with weapon of rank equal or lower by one of your skill level ( which means you can still skill up your skills with starting weapons until skill level 10 ).

 

Why?

We never get any decent or logical answers from the sycophantic failbois so here is your chance. Give me a logical reason why you should need any weapon other then your starter one to raise your skill.

A sword is a sword and you swing them all basically the same way whether they are rusty or encrusted with diamonds.

Originally posted by Paragus1

Wow are you guys this desperate to find something to grab onto and bash the game?

Weapons drop off of almost every mob in the game, and cost 30 gold or less.  The positives far outweigh the negatives.   Do you even play the game?

Actually I'm going to disagree.

I posted my opinion on this change on the official forums.  Specifically what I was afraid would happen.

Players are camping solo mob spawns to stockpile cheap weapons. 

I've made 3 new toons since fri. It's impossible to advance as a new player.  Every goblin spawn I've visited is being camped by people who already have weapon skills. 

This nerf shouldn't have been implimented without other mechanics put in place that would facility people actualy moving away from the starting areas or buying from crafters.  Increased solo mob spawns, either make it dynamic based on the number of people in the given area so that there is always an adiquate number of mobs for the number of people, and a mechanic that actually makes buying crafted weapons throughout each rank more viable then mob drops aside from a SLIGHT increase in damage and durability.

There isn't much a new player is going to accomplish when a half dozen guys are camping the mobs they need to kill to get started.  Especially when those guys already had the opportunity to develope thier skills to the point that they are killing the mobs in half the time it takes a new player.

There were much better solutions to the problem then eliminating all skill gains with the conscripted weapons.  Like making crafted weapons give better skill gains and reducing the rate at wich skills improve with the conscripted weapons.

It really sucks as a new player when a gank squad camps the starter mobs and you get nothing for your attempt at defending yourself cause you haven't even had a chance to aquire a weapon that gives you skill increase.  As I spent the last hour doing.

The patch was excellent in my opinion, and even though it sucks it didn't come sooner, at least it's here now.

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by Paragus1

Wow are you guys this desperate to find something to grab onto and bash the game?

Weapons drop off of almost every mob in the game, and cost 30 gold or less.  The positives far outweigh the negatives.   Do you even play the game?

 

Actually I'm going to disagree.

I posted my opinion on this change on the official forums.  Specifically what I was afraid would happen.

Players are camping solo mob spawns to stockpile cheap weapons. 

I've made 3 new toons since fri. It's impossible to advance as a new player.  Every goblin spawn I've visited is being camped by people who already have weapon skills. 

This nerf shouldn't have been implimented without other mechanics put in place that would facility people actualy moving away from the starting areas or buying from crafters.  Increased solo mob spawns, either make it dynamic based on the number of people in the given area so that there is always an adiquate number of mobs for the number of people, and a mechanic that actually makes buying crafted weapons throughout each rank more viable then mob drops aside from a SLIGHT increase in damage and durability.

There isn't much a new player is going to accomplish when a half dozen guys are camping the mobs they need to kill to get started.  Especially when those guys already had the opportunity to develope thier skills to the point that they are killing the mobs in half the time it takes a new player.

There were much better solutions to the problem then eliminating all skill gains with the conscripted weapons.  Like making crafted weapons give better skill gains and reducing the rate at wich skills improve with the conscripted weapons.

It really sucks as a new player when a gank squad camps the starter mobs and you get nothing for your attempt at defending yourself cause you haven't even had a chance to aquire a weapon that gives you skill increase.  As I spent the last hour doing.

sad to hear, also it doesnt deter at all naked gankers since they are skilled up already. .

a no blow to the problem and a low blow to the newbs.

Originally posted by loxleynew

 Besides gaining skill with your newbie weapon, how does this change the way PKs in DF will operate? Did they change the damage they do or...? What if they are max skill already. It would mean nothing to them. This basically seems like a nerf for newbies but not the PKs.

This is exactly the problem. Adventurine has no game design ability. They cannot seem to see the effect of their changes ahead of time, so they randomly do weird shit hoping it works.  The only people hurt by this are noobs. Starter weapons are still just as good as ever for naked reds. They are not ganking for weapon skill, they are ganking to take people's stuff. A much better fix would have been to allow noob wepons to only level up your skill a certain amount. Now, if this were truly skill based, I would suggest 10 or so, but since it is really just 4 tiers masquerading as 100 skill levels, I think 1st tier, or 25, would be a good place to stop.

I don't think the nerf had anything to do with naked fighting persay.

I believe it was more for the benefit of crafters.

I'm thinking I'll be quiting unless they change this. 

The game was difficult enough already and it just makes it harder.  It's putting solo and casual players at an extreme disadvantage. 

You can't buy a rank 0 weapon without money, and you can't get money if you can't kill anything.  The solo mob spawns are even more conjested then they were before.  You can't compete with 6-8 guys who are farming solo mobs.  

I'm also seeing more gank squads hitting those areas now.  It's frustrating to get 2 or 3 skill points over the course of a couple hours and then have to start over again.

I managed to get my sword skill to 3.6 in a little over 3 hours.
That's bullshit.