Originally posted by Eschiava

I don't know,I would call taking and holding a constellation, mining, manufacturing, producing T1 & T2 ships for an alliance to be a goal, actually several dozens or even hundreds of smaller goals, all strung together.  As for incentive, the alternative to carving out your spot, providing all the ships and fittings and training pilots to defend your space is to get kicked out by someone stronger who has acheived their goals while you have not.  I'd call that incentive.

 

Am I missing something?

None of those goals are assigned to you in away by the game.  You have to either role play up your own individual goals are get them from your corp or alliance leader.  There is absolutely no reason why a game can't allow that type of game-play and still have room for some story driven content and clearly defined goals.  Eve only offers the one option.... which is why so many people find the game to be boring.

All the gameplay options are there, they just aren't presented to the player BY the game.  So maybe the reason i didn't enjoy the game is because I didn't join a corp right away and make their goals my goals... but if that is what you have to do to enjoy this game, then it isn't what I am looking for anyway.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

 None of those goals are assigned to you in away by the game.  You have to either role play up your own individual goals are get them from your corp or alliance leader. 

Honestly I've never spent a second role playing in the game and I've never had anyone tell me what to do.

Once I got my head around the game a couple goals just formed automatically for me- looking back to my early days I think I really wanted to start a corp, get to 0.0, and put up a POS.  I did all three within six months.  Of course my first POS was blown up 3 or 4 days after I anchored it : )

Originally posted by Salvatoris

So maybe the reason i didn't enjoy the game is because I didn't join a corp right away and make their goals my goals... but if that is what you have to do to enjoy this game, then it isn't what I am looking for anyway.

for solo play u get 2 hands use them

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by Eschiava

I don't know,I would call taking and holding a constellation, mining, manufacturing, producing T1 & T2 ships for an alliance to be a goal, actually several dozens or even hundreds of smaller goals, all strung together.  As for incentive, the alternative to carving out your spot, providing all the ships and fittings and training pilots to defend your space is to get kicked out by someone stronger who has acheived their goals while you have not.  I'd call that incentive.

 

Am I missing something?

 

None of those goals are assigned to you in away by the game.  You have to either role play up your own individual goals are get them from your corp or alliance leader.  There is absolutely no reason why a game can't allow that type of game-play and still have room for some story driven content and clearly defined goals.  Eve only offers the one option.... which is why so many people find the game to be boring.

All the gameplay options are there, they just aren't presented to the player BY the game.  So maybe the reason i didn't enjoy the game is because I didn't join a corp right away and make their goals my goals... but if that is what you have to do to enjoy this game, then it isn't what I am looking for anyway.

But the game could never assign the kinds of goals for which EVE was designed.  Imagine what would happen if everyone was assigned the goal of holding 1 null-sec system for 30 days.  One of 2 things would happen, either, since everyyone has the same goal, everyone holds their own system or, as soon as one person held a system everyone else would jump him and take it away.  There can be no teamwork in this system since everyone needs to complete their own goal, whether it be to hold a system or some other equally lofty goal.

So, by assigning the goal of holding a system for 30 days, doing so either becomes pointless or impossible, or both.

Well, what about assigning smaller goals?  But, isn't that what EQ2 and LoTR (or, gasp, WoW?0 do?  Yeah, it is, and now you've made EVE just another cookie cutter MMO.

It's been said countless times, EVE isn't for everybody.  But those who like it have yet to find an equal to it.  Indeed, many who like EVE have found that they are spoiled and no longer able to play another run of the mill MMO, myself included.

You know why?  I find them BORING!!!   LOL

if you really need somone else to tell you what to do and set goals and enjoy fufilling those arbitary goals set by a stranger, ill do you a favour:

you mission is to buy an orca, fill it with ferogell, and autopilot it through providence, out the bottom into catch, via the kw -> f4r pipe, up into curse and back into empire via doril / sendaya.

manage that and ill concede you have won eve.

lol an orca full of ferrogel.

I DARE someone to calculate how much that would be worth.

Originally posted by Enkindu

lol an orca full of ferrogel.

I DARE someone to calculate how much that would be worth.

Using Eve-central.com...

Orca: 447'998'892.95 isk

Ferrogel: 50'882.65 isk each.

Now, the orca has 30'000 m3 space. It also has 2 low slots, so with 2*expanded cargo II (which are 798'984.95 isk each) that's 46'018.75 m3. (not counting stacking penalties)

Ferrogel is 1 m3 each. So that's 46'018 m3 of Ferrogel, which is 46'018*50'882.65... 2'341'517'787.7 isk. Now, add the orca and the ECIIs to that equation, and you get:

2'791'114'650.55 isk

This is with the cheapest (in Jita) eve-central prices.

Edit:

Now, with 2 Cargohold Optimization II (which are 367'489'998.90 isk each) we can get the cargo up to 66'267 m3 (still not counting penalties).

With ferrogel, this is 3'371'840'567.55 isk. Add the Orca, the ECIIs and the rigs, and you get:

4'556'417'428.2 isk

Edit #2:

Forgot to add a few things to the equation. :P and forgot to mention the rigs were T2. :P

Edit #3:

To make this legit, I'll take the median prices below:

First equation:

Orca: 470'000'000.00
Ferrogel: 56'994.99
ECII: 999'999.00 (*2 = 1'999'998)
COII: 398'203'989.50 (*2 = 796'407'979)

46,018 units of ferrogel: 2'622'795'449.82

+ Orca & 2*ECII: 

3'094'795'447.82 isk

Second equation:

66'267 units of ferrogel: 3'776'887'002.33

+ Orca, 2*ECII & 2*COII:

5'045'294'979.33 isk

thats one hell of a goal.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by Eschiava

I don't know,I would call taking and holding a constellation, mining, manufacturing, producing T1 & T2 ships for an alliance to be a goal, actually several dozens or even hundreds of smaller goals, all strung together.  As for incentive, the alternative to carving out your spot, providing all the ships and fittings and training pilots to defend your space is to get kicked out by someone stronger who has acheived their goals while you have not.  I'd call that incentive.

 

Am I missing something?

 

None of those goals are assigned to you in away by the game.  You have to either role play up your own individual goals are get them from your corp or alliance leader.  There is absolutely no reason why a game can't allow that type of game-play and still have room for some story driven content and clearly defined goals.  Eve only offers the one option.... which is why so many people find the game to be boring.

All the gameplay options are there, they just aren't presented to the player BY the game.  So maybe the reason i didn't enjoy the game is because I didn't join a corp right away and make their goals my goals... but if that is what you have to do to enjoy this game, then it isn't what I am looking for anyway.

You can't just find a corp with the SAME goals already rather than find a corp and change your goals to match ?

Xennith gave you a nice goal atleast.

Originally posted by Xennith

if you really need somone else to tell you what to do and set goals and enjoy fufilling those arbitary goals set by a stranger, ill do you a favour:

 

you mission is to buy an orca, fill it with ferogell, and autopilot it through providence, out the bottom into catch, via the kw -> f4r pipe, up into curse and back into empire via doril / sendaya.

 

manage that and ill concede you have won eve.

If I wanted some random Eve player to set goals for me, I'd join a corp and be happy with the game.   That was kind of the point. ;)

Originally posted by kattehus

Originally posted by Enkindu

lol an orca full of ferrogel.

I DARE someone to calculate how much that would be worth.

 

Using Eve-central.com...

Orca: 447'998'892.95 isk

Ferrogel: 50'882.65 isk each.

Now, the orca has 30'000 m3 space. It also has 2 low slots, so with 2*expanded cargo II (which are 798'984.95 isk each) that's 46'018.75 m3. (not counting stacking penalties)

Ferrogel is 1 m3 each. So that's 46'018 m3 of Ferrogel, which is 46'018*50'882.65... 2'341'517'787.7 isk. Now, add the orca and the ECIIs to that equation, and you get:

2'791'114'650.55 isk

This is with the cheapest (in Jita) eve-central prices.

Edit:

Now, with 2 Cargohold Optimization II (which are 367'489'998.90 isk each) we can get the cargo up to 66'267 m3 (still not counting penalties).

With ferrogel, this is 3'371'840'567.55 isk. Add the Orca, the ECIIs and the rigs, and you get:

4'556'417'428.2 isk

Edit #2:

Forgot to add a few things to the equation. :P and forgot to mention the rigs were T2. :P

 

Edit #3:

To make this legit, I'll take the median prices below:

First equation:

Orca: 470'000'000.00
Ferrogel: 56'994.99
ECII: 999'999.00 (*2 = 1'999'998)
COII: 398'203'989.50 (*2 = 796'407'979)

46,018 units of ferrogel: 2'622'795'449.82

+ Orca & 2*ECII: 

3'094'795'447.82 isk

Second equation:

66'267 units of ferrogel: 3'776'887'002.33

+ Orca, 2*ECII & 2*COII:

5'045'294'979.33 isk

Woot! I knew someone would do it.  I love eve people.  Don't forget the corp hangar! 40km3 : )

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by Xennith

if you really need somone else to tell you what to do and set goals and enjoy fufilling those arbitary goals set by a stranger, ill do you a favour:

 

you mission is to buy an orca, fill it with ferogell, and autopilot it through providence, out the bottom into catch, via the kw -> f4r pipe, up into curse and back into empire via doril / sendaya.

 

manage that and ill concede you have won eve.

 

If I wanted some random Eve player to set goals for me, I'd join a corp and be happy with the game.   That was kind of the point. ;)

so you want the developers to set goals for you? you complain about the lack of direction, i provide you with direction and you still complain. honestly. some people just like to bitch and moan.

I just don't understand what is so magical about a goal set by a game developer.  Since they know nothing of the people who are playing they have no choice but to assign the same generic goals to everyone.

OTOH, in EVE you get to choose your own goals, either by setting your own and working towards them or by finding a corp with goals that you feel like supporting and then joining that corp and joining in the effort.

Either way, the goals you work toward will be much better tailored to the individual player than even the very best devopler would ever be able to devise in the "one size fits all" world of most MMOs.

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by kattehus

Using Eve-central.com...

To make this legit, I'll take the median prices below:

First equation:

Orca: 470'000'000.00
Ferrogel: 56'994.99
ECII: 999'999.00 (*2 = 1'999'998)
COII: 398'203'989.50 (*2 = 796'407'979)

46,018 units of ferrogel: 2'622'795'449.82

+ Orca & 2*ECII: 

3'094'795'447.82 isk

Second equation:

66'267 units of ferrogel: 3'776'887'002.33

+ Orca, 2*ECII & 2*COII:

5'045'294'979.33 isk

Woot! I knew someone would do it.  I love eve people.  Don't forget the corp hangar! 40km3 : )

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that. As well as the cargo bonus pr. level of industrial command ship.

The Corporate Hangar can hold 40'000 m3, which is the same as 40'000 units of ferrogel.

So..

First equation:

3'094'795'447.82 + 2'279'799'600 =

5'374'595'047.82 isk

Now, let's assume the player has Industrial Command Ship lvl 5, then we have a cargospace of:

38'288 (rounded down from .44688) m3, now do the ECII again, and we get: 62'242.66 (rounded up from .656) m3.

62'242*56'994.99 = 3'547'482'168 (ferrogel) + 470'000'000 (orca) + 1'999'998 (w*ECII) + 2'279'799'600 (corp hangar ferrogel) =

6'299'281'766 isk

Second equation:

5'045'294'979.33 + 2'279'799'600 =

7'325'094'579 isk

Again with the Industrial Command Ship lvl 5, this becomes 89'629.43 m3

89'629 * 56'994.99 = 5'108'403'959 (ferrogel) + 470'000'000 (orca) + 1'999'998 (2*ECII) + 2'279'799'600 (corp hangar ferrogel) + 796'407'979 (2*COII) =

8'656'611'536 isk

To make this more simplistic:

First equation:

Orca: 470'000'000.00
Ferrogel: 56'994.99
ECII: 999'999.00 (*2 = 1'999'998)

62'242 units of ferrogel: 3'547'482'168

+ Orca & 2*ECII + 40'000 units of ferrogel:

6'299'281'766 isk

Second equation:

COII: 398'203'989.50 (*2 = 796'407'979)

89'629 units of ferrogel: 5'108'403'959

+ Orca, 2*ECII & 2*COII + 40'000 units of ferrogel:

8'656'611'536 isk

better yet, just give me the money and i will official tout you "king of EVE!"

Thanks kattehus, I'll take two.  Put them on my tab.

You should give it another shot with a corporation that takes in newbs, who can show you around. EVE can be very intense or very boring. That is entirely dictated by the player. If you lack understanding and think small, repetititve, and boring, that's exactly what the game will be.

Originally posted by Rodentofdoom

missions in eve are exactly the same as quests in wow/eq etc .. they are a means to end, they are a 'grinding' mechanic inherant in EVERY mmo you will ever play, the only difference is in eve grinding missions just gets you stuff and not XP.

you put no effort into playing the game, & therefore you got little from it in return.

Not really. I did a 21 day trial of Eve a while back. Quests in WOW are a lot more fun and have varied location/mobs to fight compared to Eve missions. Plus, at least in the low level, I got the same mission again and again (seems like there is very few missions .. this is before the march expansion pack) while you don't repeat a quest in WOW until level 80.

"you put no effort into playing the game, & therefore you got little from it in return." .. now this sentence is so so wrong. Games are entertainment. They should entertain us.

I was playing FEAR2 the other day (a pretty good FPS) and i am having tremendous amount of fun just shooting enemies around and following the story. Playing games should NOT be like work.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Rodentofdoom

missions in eve are exactly the same as quests in wow/eq etc .. they are a means to end, they are a 'grinding' mechanic inherant in EVERY mmo you will ever play, the only difference is in eve grinding missions just gets you stuff and not XP.

you put no effort into playing the game, & therefore you got little from it in return.

 

I just wanted to add in here for the above quote. In other games grinding is a means to and end but that end is the level cap so you can start doing the end game stuff. Eve does not have that level cap or end game like other games. All of Eve is end game basically. Missions are there for casual players to make some money when they know they have set time to play. Some people enjoy the missions as they are, not my thing but hey neither is mining but if others enjoy it then by all means I will let them have thier fun. That is all a part what makes Eve great.

Not really. I did a 21 day trial of Eve a while back. Quests in WOW are a lot more fun and have varied location/mobs to fight compared to Eve missions. Plus, at least in the low level, I got the same mission again and again (seems like there is very few missions .. this is before the march expansion pack) while you don't repeat a quest in WOW until level 80.

Please do not compare the quests of a pve oriented game with lousy pvp to a pvp oriented game. Eve is NOT pve game so comparing it in this way is just a biased comparison to begin with. How about we start to compare the pvp, crafting and economy of Eve to WoWs ? No comparison, WoW fails vs Eve in each of those 3 categorys.

"you put no effort into playing the game, & therefore you got little from it in return." .. now this sentence is so so wrong. Games are entertainment. They should entertain us.

I was playing FEAR2 the other day (a pretty good FPS) and i am having tremendous amount of fun just shooting enemies around and following the story. Playing games should NOT be like work.

I do agree that games should not feel like work. But not all games have to be brain dead easy to learn and be good at with little to no effort given by the player to learn. What is wrong with some extra time learning a game so that you may enjoy that game for years to come ? Or do you think Fear will keep you occupied that long ?

yay, more trolls to rip to shreds. run on back to your epics little boy, i hear that theres a level 18 newbie in a contested zone for you to kill in one hit.