By the time a game is in the public eye its mechanics are set in stone.

Originally posted by rounner

By the time a game is in the public eye its mechanics are set in stone.

That's a joke right?

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

"Atanasov made a point to remind us that the game makes use of RPG style combat and not FPS combat, meaning that ability recharges aren’t instant and that the pace of combat is a little bit slower than in an FPS."

 

My intrest just droped to nill.

This.

Originally posted by Agricola1

The God of gaming " Koster of Mos Eisley " doth approve of the features in this game, all we need now is player housing for the pre-cu Vets and the promise land will be ready!

I'd be interested to see how that combat system works out, since I'll be playing with a fully programmable keyboard I hope it is more of an rpg combat system :)

The amount and type of XP or in case SKILL POINTS earned is the key and i don't see it talked about.

This is the part ALL players who see the "SKILL POINTS " get all excited but are just fooled into thinkiong this means a good or better system.All it means is that you instead of starting at your proper skills for that GAIN,you start at the LOWEST point and have to work your way up.This is actually the EXACT same thing as a normal traditional system,they just fool you by allowing you the option to load the points,it is also a way to further players "GRINDING " in a game.

A real EFFORT put into game design knows how to utilize a XP leveling system and yet still maintain a skill system RELATED to your "skill tree" or as in normal case a "CLASS SYSTEM".

Case in point FFXI>>you have xp gains and levels.Depending what type of weapon and class you are, you can further raise your skills that relate to what you need "OF COURSE" just as you would in this games system.

The BIG difference is a lesser design in this games point.You do not need to DESIGN anything,just give the players nothing and make them "GRIND" to where they meet the normal game level of gaining skills.So just as in FFFXI as an "example" by level 5 you have 20 skills point in several areas "YOU NEED",say 14-18 skills points in related areas such as defensive abilities as Block/Parry/Shield/magic whatever is related to your class.In FFXI's case it takes a LOT more effort to design.This game you start with 0 then by the same TIME equivalent you will end up with guess what?yep the equivalent of 20 skills points where you need them and some skills points in RELATED areas,to mould your player into the EXACT same thing as picking a class and mould it into the proper skill set it needs.I found it funny when the video said you have 1 for a noob tactic,then 2 is fully upgraded?huh 1 an 2? lmao not much design there.

To further show the simpler and quicker approach,this game will utilize "LESS" slots than almost every game on the market...ONLY 5 ![missing kneck/back/fingers/wrist].This takes again less effort.MOST games utilize THREE sets of armour,a CLOTH/LEATHER/PLATE,this game utilizes TWO.I feel the more i look over the features,this game is being rushed out the door,as nothing but a nice idea but little time and effort put into it's design.I have yet to hear an "IN DEPTH" discussion on how they plan to implement the PVE part of the game,PVP is again a stupified design,all the games do it the same,except AV made their PVP based on "I can't see shit"so now it's skilled" lmao.It takes a lot more effort designing PVE,because you have to make the game based on what you "PERCEIVE" players will do with their skill points,or as in EVERY skill based system i have seen,they make sure to allow for players that max out the damage end of the spectrum,because they cannot allow the game to be broken.

If the game takes a super stupified approach and just lets you grind out points forever with no care for SKILL,then it would be a terrible design.Case in point, fighting the lowest level of mob in the game for 3 weeks straight before moving on,and having skills that are far too strong for the matched area.So as in case of a XP type game,would be the equivalent of allowing players to gain xp as a level 20 player killing level 1 mobs,just a ridiculous design and a lazy one.You need to make players EARN their skill points and FORCE them to make PROPER decisions,because once they out skill the area,they are forced to move on to get more skill points.If you still cannot understand what i am saying,then imagine this for a simplified example.....

Player stays in noob area for 3 weeks,has 30 skill points in running,30 skill points in heavy weapons,30 skill points in ANY other areas related to the game design,you can see how DUMB down the game design would be.It would also allow players with superior skills to stick around and kill new players just joining the game,what kind of challenge would that offer to players?a heck of a lot to the noob but ZERO to the vet.This was a simple example to show how the game fails using this design.Just as in an XP or level based game ,players SHOULD and MUST be forced to move onto their proper skill area in order to achieve gains,otherwise what is the purpose of playing,if there is NO challenge?

I probably need to wait and see a lot more of their design before i criticize,but looking over the basics,it seems a cheap design.I LOVE a good looking game it means as much to me as design,but without design it will still IMO fail.From what i have seen,these guys struggle to equal the design challenge ,because in the end they will LIMIT your skills quite a bit based on what tree you decide to open up or follow.Guess what?again i will utilize the FFXI system,the type of system players are tired of and think is a lesser system.In FFXI you "CAN" be a healer and a melee at the same time ,using their sub class system,and you know why?because a LOT more thought and design was put into it ,to make it work and not break the game.

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by Agricola1

The God of gaming " Koster of Mos Eisley " doth approve of the features in this game, all we need now is player housing for the pre-cu Vets and the promise land will be ready!

I'd be interested to see how that combat system works out, since I'll be playing with a fully programmable keyboard I hope it is more of an rpg combat system :)

 

The amount and type of XP or in case SKILL POINTS earned is the key and i don't see it talked about.

This is the part ALL players who see the "SKILL POINTS " get all excited but are just fooled into thinkiong this means a good or better system.All it means is that you instead of starting at your proper skills for that GAIN,you start at the LOWEST point and have to work your way up.This is actually the EXACT same thing as a normal traditional system,they just fool you by allowing you the option to load the points,it is also a way to further players "GRINDING " in a game.

A real EFFORT put into game design knows how to utilize a XP leveling system and yet still maintain a skill system RELATED to your "skill tree" or as in normal case a "CLASS SYSTEM".

Case in point FFXI>>you have xp gains and levels.Depending what type of weapon and class you are, you can further raise your skills that relate to what you need "OF COURSE" just as you would in this games system.

The BIG difference is a lesser design in this games point.You do not need to DESIGN anything,just give the players nothing and make them "GRIND" to where they meet the normal game level of gaining skills.So just as in FFFXI as an "example" by level 5 you have 20 skills point in several areas "YOU NEED",say 14-18 skills points in related areas such as defensive abilities as Block/Parry/Shield/magic whatever is related to your class.In FFXI's case it takes a LOT more effort to design.This game you start with 0 then by the same TIME equivalent you will end up with guess what?yep the equivalent of 20 skills points where you need them and some skills points in RELATED areas,to mould your player into the EXACT same thing as picking a class and mould it into the proper skill set it needs.I found it funny when the video said you have 1 for a noob tactic,then 2 is fully upgraded?huh 1 an 2? lmao not much design there

Whether a game is "grindy" or not is independent of level vs skill, in any case, all rpg's will have some element of grind. The point of a skill system such ER's is that you get to choose any combo you want instead of being tied to the builds the devs hand you. If that's not your cup of tea, go find a theme park game. Also, if you were listening, the 1 and 2 were after you buy the original ability, each of the 270 abilities have 3 levels.

 

To further show the simpler and quicker approach,this game will utilize "LESS" slots than almost every game on the market...ONLY 5 ![missing kneck/back/fingers/wrist].This takes again less effort.MOST games utilize THREE sets of armour,a CLOTH/LEATHER/PLATE,this game utilizes TWO.I feel the more i look over the features,this game is being rushed out the door,as nothing but a nice idea but little time and effort put into it's design.I have yet to hear an "IN DEPTH" discussion on how they plan to implement the PVE part of the game,PVP is again a stupified design,all the games do it the same,except AV made their PVP based on "I can't see shit"so now it's skilled" lmao.It takes a lot more effort designing PVE,because you have to make the game based on what you "PERCEIVE" players will do with their skill points,or as in EVERY skill based system i have seen,they make sure to allow for players that max out the damage end of the spectrum,because they cannot allow the game to be broken.

You forgot the 3 devices, it comes out to just a few less than what Wow uses. For any in depth discussions, I suggest you head over to the ER forums. And how the hell can you call fully guild controlled territory warfare, with guild built bases including defense, a "stupified design", do you know anything about the game you're talking about?

If the game takes a super stupified approach and just lets you grind out points forever with no care for SKILL,then it would be a terrible design.Case in point, fighting the lowest level of mob in the game for 3 weeks straight before moving on,and having skills that are far too strong for the matched area.So as in case of a XP type game,would be the equivalent of allowing players to gain xp as a level 20 player killing level 1 mobs,just a ridiculous design and a lazy one.You need to make players EARN their skill points and FORCE them to make PROPER decisions,because once they out skill the area,they are forced to move on to get more skill points.If you still cannot understand what i am saying,then imagine this for a simplified example.....

There is a system which accomplishes exactly this called battle rating. Again, actually research the game you're talking.

Player stays in noob area for 3 weeks,has 30 skill points in running,30 skill points in heavy weapons,30 skill points in ANY other areas related to the game design,you can see how DUMB down the game design would be.It would also allow players with superior skills to stick around and kill new players just joining the game,what kind of challenge would that offer to players?a heck of a lot to the noob but ZERO to the vet.This was a simple example to show how the game fails using this design.Just as in an XP or level based game ,players SHOULD and MUST be forced to move onto their proper skill area in order to achieve gains,otherwise what is the purpose of playing,if there is NO challenge?

See above, just because you havn't looked into the game, doesn't mean the devs are dumb.

I probably need to wait and see a lot more of their design before i criticize(no kidding?),but looking over the basics,it seems a cheap design.I LOVE a good looking game it means as much to me as design,but without design it will still IMO fail.From what i have seen,these guys struggle to equal the design challenge ,because in the end they will LIMIT your skills quite a bit based on what tree you decide to open up or follow.Guess what?again i will utilize the FFXI system,the type of system players are tired of and think is a lesser system.In FFXI you "CAN" be a healer and a melee at the same time ,using their sub class system,and you know why?because a LOT more thought and design was put into it ,to make it work and not break the game.

It baffles me that you can spout so much garbage without having looked into the game at all. Head over MastHead's forums and check out their site, especially the Question of the Week forum, a lot of stuff has been explained there, and nothing seems rushed, they aren't totally retards, they have in fact thought about the game they're making..

Originally posted by vktra79

Originally posted by PapaB34R

Originally posted by vktra79

Originally posted by mbd1968

Originally posted by Reno0513

Fallen Earth looks like a better option.

I agree.

 

This doesn't tell anything. I don't think this is the place to comment other games.

 

on the countary, the game just lost a potential customer, I was hyped bout this game.. till I saw their "slower RPG based combat" I might be wrong but that looked really boring. I wont say WoW in a Sci fi world because I know theres a lot of differences still.. with that UI and boring animations it tickles my mind..

It just looked dull and boring from the vid, thats it, if thats major or pointless its relative and subjective.

It tells everything and nothing, either theres a fanboy defending his precious or.. he/she/it just thought it was crap and so meantioned a competeter which I myself will pay more attention to now then before I saw the vid, I think thats very relavant to the disscusion

 

Papa, you are making a good point that games should be compared. Well after seeing this:

www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/126/view/videos/play/1357/Fallen-Earth-Dance-Video.html

 and this:

www.fallenearth.com/showvideo.php

No thanks, I will stick to Earthrise for the time being. In fact the second video is I think the first Fallen Earth video just like the one of Earthrise which was posted several weeks ago. Lets see what Earthrise gameplay videos are coming in the future and some Earthrise game reviews and then decide. It is too early to tell.

it is true that we should wait for final judgement till both games have atleast entered its last stage of beta but... I was referring to the dullness and plain empty and shallow gameplay which we saw  in the video wether or not its the correct picture of gameplay remains to be seen but in my eyes fallen earth just took a great leap.

As for the videos in liks your showing me.. I believe one is made as a joke so dont know why you would compare those two videos, there are a lot of videos on youtube on fallen earth and to me it looks like itl be a lot more fun.

Is this a fanboy reply?

Well lets see its looking great. But i do concure that most game i play that are just  Hot key tapping games can get boring quiet quick. And the FPS ones i do like better of corse i playes Neocron 1 and Neocron 2 For ever and it was a blast. But its not even out yet so untell i can check the game out personally im contionualy geving it a Go. But so far for a Sci-fi MMO im waiting on Fallen Earth,Divergence, Startrek Online, But Still Holding Hope For Earthrise. So keep on going for the gold.

Originally posted by vktra79

Originally posted by PapaB34R

Originally posted by vktra79

Originally posted by mbd1968

Originally posted by Reno0513

Fallen Earth looks like a better option.

I agree.

 

This doesn't tell anything. I don't think this is the place to comment other games.

 

on the countary, the game just lost a potential customer, I was hyped bout this game.. till I saw their "slower RPG based combat" I might be wrong but that looked really boring. I wont say WoW in a Sci fi world because I know theres a lot of differences still.. with that UI and boring animations it tickles my mind..

It just looked dull and boring from the vid, thats it, if thats major or pointless its relative and subjective.

It tells everything and nothing, either theres a fanboy defending his precious or.. he/she/it just thought it was crap and so meantioned a competeter which I myself will pay more attention to now then before I saw the vid, I think thats very relavant to the disscusion

 

Papa, you are making a good point that games should be compared. Well after seeing this:

www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/126/view/videos/play/1357/Fallen-Earth-Dance-Video.html

 and this:

www.fallenearth.com/showvideo.php

No thanks, I will stick to Earthrise for the time being. In fact the second video is I think the first Fallen Earth video just like the one of Earthrise which was posted several weeks ago. Lets see what Earthrise gameplay videos are coming in the future and some Earthrise game reviews and then decide. It is too early to tell.

As ER will be out 6months after FE I will probably try both. FE seems to have more of the elements I am looking for but I will not know until I try both. I was just stating that, at the moment,  FE looks like a better game... my opinion only.

Originally posted by PapaB34R

 

it is true that we should wait for final judgement till both games have atleast entered its last stage of beta but... I was referring to the dullness and plain empty and shallow gameplay which we saw  in the video wether or not its the correct picture of gameplay remains to be seen but in my eyes fallen earth just took a great leap.

As for the videos in liks your showing me.. I believe one is made as a joke so dont know why you would compare those two videos, there are a lot of videos on youtube on fallen earth and to me it looks like itl be a lot more fun.

Is this a fanboy reply?

No, not a fanboy reply. I was just giving some video comparisons. In fact Fallen Earth is close to release and it is normal to have most features and graphics complete. Earthrise just entered closed beta and release date is not very clear. What I see from their forums, the devs listen to the community and I am certain they will make the necessary changes. I think final decisions about a game should be made when it is out not when it is just enetering beta.

Those videos were about 90% too long thanks to captain obvious giving us the walkthrough. 

Equipment has stats!

You can't use shooting abilities with a sword!

Classes use different armor!

Stances are on all the time! (repeated this twice in a multi paragraph explination...)

Thanks for the 101 on every MMO in existance Captain!

That being said, in addition to this looking like yet another bland gear grinding clone with the slight imporvement of being able to select which skills you improve, the animations look terrible. I was going to chalk it up to the level of development its in, until he mentioned it was closed beta. I don't care that it's turn based, I care that the character jerks back and forth between firing and suddenly standing perfectly strait, and that he does basically a very slow twist dance to shoot three bullets and return to attention. 

Overall, I didn't have much hope for the game to begin with, but this is certainly not looking promising.

Originally posted by Kordesh

Those videos were about 90% too long thanks to captain obvious giving us the walkthrough. 

Equipment has stats!

You can't use shooting abilities with a sword!

Classes use different armor!

Stances are on all the time! (repeated this twice in a multi paragraph explination...)

Thanks for the 101 on every MMO in existance Captain!

That being said, in addition to this looking like yet another bland gear grinding clone with the slight imporvement of being able to select which skills you improve, the animations look terrible. I was going to chalk it up to the level of development its in, until he mentioned it was closed beta. I don't care that it's turn based, I care that the character jerks back and forth between firing and suddenly standing perfectly strait, and that he does basically a very slow twist dance to shoot three bullets and return to attention. 

Overall, I didn't have much hope for the game to begin with, but this is certainly not looking promising.

Here are some more "obvious" things:

The zone we see is The Nest, it will follow the tutorial zone - did you know that?

There are 5 equipment slots - did you know that before?

There are 270 abilities in Earthrise  - isn't it obvious?

Combat skill points are needed for advancement - maybe you are from the dev team and know that too.

You have 2 tactic slots for ability - I guess you know that too

What surprises me is that you don't know something - You say Earthrise is class based - Wrong - it is skill based, sorry.

Originally posted by Apeg

Originally posted by Kordesh

Those videos were about 90% too long thanks to captain obvious giving us the walkthrough. 

Equipment has stats!

You can't use shooting abilities with a sword!

Classes use different armor!

Stances are on all the time! (repeated this twice in a multi paragraph explination...)

Thanks for the 101 on every MMO in existance Captain!

That being said, in addition to this looking like yet another bland gear grinding clone with the slight imporvement of being able to select which skills you improve, the animations look terrible. I was going to chalk it up to the level of development its in, until he mentioned it was closed beta. I don't care that it's turn based, I care that the character jerks back and forth between firing and suddenly standing perfectly strait, and that he does basically a very slow twist dance to shoot three bullets and return to attention. 

Overall, I didn't have much hope for the game to begin with, but this is certainly not looking promising.

 

Here are some more "obvious" things:

The zone we see is The Nest, it will follow the tutorial zone - did you know that?

There are 5 equipment slots - did you know that before?

There are 270 abilities in Earthrise  - isn't it obvious?

Combat skill points are needed for advancement - maybe you are from the dev team and know that too.

You have 2 tactic slots for ability - I guess you know that too

 

What surprises me is that you don't know something - You say Earthrise is class based - Wrong - it is skill based, sorry.

*sigh* Fanboys. Did I say it explained NOTHING? No, I didn't. My point was they spent FAR too much time overexplaining trivial BS than the points above. Everything you mentioned, completely glossed over! The fact that you need a gun to use gun abilities? He apparently could write a small noveletta on that. And twist it however you want, he named four classes during the video, and while you might not be locked into those rolls forever, the classes exist. Yes, you get to switch up and buy your skills, but they clearly have archtypes in mind.

Based on the short gameplay video it looks liek its gonna play similar to hellgate london.  It's still to early to say anything for certain but the gameplay looks very similar.

They just released another combat video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70vFOUUIjog

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