Originally posted by Hhussk

Originally posted by mindw0rk

 Those with the best graphics of course. LoTRO/Vanguard/..

 

I completely disagree that graphics causes immersion. It's how the world and people interact that maintains the illusion.

 

Edit: Age of Conan, based on your statement, would be the best MMO, and I fundamentally disagree.

I agree. None of these games can top the immersion of a pen and paper games where everyone imagines the world around them.

Originally posted by merv808

...Personally, I don't see how instancing ruins immersion for so many people. Actually I think in a lot of cases, instanced questing helps.

Imagine going on an epic quest to kill the dragon...you get there only to see another group kill it first, and you have to wait 20 minutes for it to respawn. Where is the immersion in that? For me, when I enter a dungeon on a mission, its about me and my team, anyway. Who cares what the rest of the world is doing.

But on the same note...persistance.

If you kill the dragon, why isn't he dead. Why can you keep coming back and kill him over and over again.

Originally posted by merv808

Originally posted by Hhussk

Originally posted by mindw0rk

 Those with the best graphics of course. LoTRO/Vanguard/..

 

I completely disagree that graphics causes immersion. It's how the world and people interact that maintains the illusion.

 

Edit: Age of Conan, based on your statement, would be the best MMO, and I fundamentally disagree.

 

I agree. None of these games can top the immersion of a pen and paper games where everyone imagines the world around them.

You are right on the mark. The Pen and Paper will always be the most dynamic, fluid and interactive.

Originally posted by Hhussk

Originally posted by merv808

...Personally, I don't see how instancing ruins immersion for so many people. Actually I think in a lot of cases, instanced questing helps.

Imagine going on an epic quest to kill the dragon...you get there only to see another group kill it first, and you have to wait 20 minutes for it to respawn. Where is the immersion in that? For me, when I enter a dungeon on a mission, its about me and my team, anyway. Who cares what the rest of the world is doing.

 

But on the same note...persistance.

If you kill the dragon, why isn't he dead. Why can you keep coming back and kill him over and over again.

without instances, the dragon does keep coming back...and will come back and kill you if you don't get away fast enough. In an instanced quest, I kill the dragon, and I never see him again (as long as i don't repeat the quest)

Originally posted by Smikis

aoc atleast deserve to be called instanced, thats how game is.. that doesnt make game bad

wow isnt instance, yes dungeons are.. ( not all of them, there used to be plenty of elite zones back in the days, you know why instanced is better.. you cant create boss for xx , and then have it done by 2xx, im sure you had yours 160 ppl moments, while fighting those 80 man bosses in eq.. now for how long did you found that fun ..)

 

those small things like motorcycles and other small jumbo, makes wow where it is

if you ask me.. new dungeon  ( in any game )  or random small thing.. ill go dungeon any time.. i love pve

but you gona end up like aoc.. ( atleast how it was on start  ) it had pvp, it had crafting, it had sieges.. it had instances, it had raids, its never enough.. there wont be game that have enough of xx.. it was broken.. but it was playable.. but you know.. at the end of the day.. you maxed crafting.. you maxed keep.. you did few sieges.. you raided all you got, and there was nothing else to log for.. 

you know 2 months after release i was trying hard.. to log to aoc.. and do anything

but i couldnt log to aoc.. like in wow.. and go explore some old zone.. maybe try to solo old raid boss..

do random achievement , get new pet,, a new mount , new cloths , any random thing..

shit jump on orgri bank.. none of those things were in aoc ( maybe some are now.. ) 

so never go bashing those small things.. even if they are out of phase.. ( tho they are not.. flying machines were in wc wc 2 wc3, and i never remmber anyone complaining. .so whats different.. from gnomish chopper.. to gnomish bike . nothing )

Wow is more than 5 years old and have loads of content so the comparision is not really fair.

Still, AoC need a lot more content.

Palladins on motorcycles are not a small thing.

I'd say DDO, don't play it but they got the D&D game very good.

Originally posted by Hhussk

Originally posted by merv808

...Personally, I don't see how instancing ruins immersion for so many people. Actually I think in a lot of cases, instanced questing helps.

Imagine going on an epic quest to kill the dragon...you get there only to see another group kill it first, and you have to wait 20 minutes for it to respawn. Where is the immersion in that? For me, when I enter a dungeon on a mission, its about me and my team, anyway. Who cares what the rest of the world is doing.

 

But on the same note...persistance.

If you kill the dragon, why isn't he dead. Why can you keep coming back and kill him over and over again.

The problem is that in games like pen and paper games, you can have a new dragon or demon or whatever at any time. But with a computer game, it takes a lot of energy and resources to design, create, test and implement an encounter.

So sure, you can have a party kill "the" dragon but then what? Design a new encounter every week? Or just have the dragon change color with a randomly generated name and then make it available for players until the next time?

This is why mmo's really don't work.

At least in the immersion/persistant world part of it. And mostly for PvE.

In a pvp game the drama and gameplay happen between players. You actually get history and conflict and rivalry and spies and backstabbing, etc.

But when it comes to PvE games or PvE portions of games the only way to really do this is to hire someone to be a game master.

Now, that might not be a bad idea but I wonder why game companies don't do this? Is it a problem with implementing such a thing or is it just the extra salary and fringe to have another employee for each server create more dynamic encounters?

Don't know.

To answer the OP, I'd have to say The Chronicles Of Spellborn.

More so the more you play.

But as soon as you log in....you'll look around and say "what the fuck is going on...?" because you'll be in a world unlike any other you've ever experienced.

Indeed, part of the addictive nature of the game is trying to find out what happened to the world...when it happened....where in time you are...what is the Deadspell storm???

Seriously..give it a try. It's free until level 7, no time limit. It starts off easy, and kind of eases you into the alien nature of your surroundings, the combat system, the political situation, and everything else that is...unique about it.

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

To answer the OP, I'd have to say The Chronicles Of Spellborn.

More so the more you play.

But as soon as you log in....you'll look around and say "what the fuck is going on...?" because you'll be in a world unlike any other you've ever experienced.

Indeed, part of the addictive nature of the game is trying to find out what happened to the world...when it happened....where in time you are...what is the Deadspell storm???

Seriously..give it a try. It's free until level 7, no time limit. It starts off easy, and kind of eases you into the alien nature of your surroundings, the combat system, the political situation, and everything else that is...unique about it.

I thought this game was still in closed beta?  Is it in open beta now or something?  I'd been following this one, but have been away from the MMO-scene for many months and am trying to find a new/old game to play.  ^_^ Thanks :-)

Originally posted by Murdus

AoC isn't immersive. It is instanced up the hootza.

LotRO and Vanguard's character models all look like they have a stick where it shouldn't be.

If you want a truely immersive game, play Fallout 3, otherwise, I think the most immersive in the MMO genre is WoW.

Problem is if you try to rp in wow the horrible community will probable curse you. The community is what pretty much kills it in WOW.

Originally posted by Hhussk

Originally posted by merv808

 

I agree. None of these games can top the immersion of a pen and paper games where everyone imagines the world around them.

 

You are right on the mark. The Pen and Paper will always be the most dynamic, fluid and interactive.

True, but I'd have to say all those times when I was younger and my D&D group got together in all our self-made padded armor and weapons and took off through the local woods acting out our game instead of on paper was even better.

Then the occasional passerby that kinda-accidentally {more intentionally} got caught up in the action and ran away screaming really blossomed the immersion. {they were like a random NPC...rofl}

...I think I still have ligering bruises from those wonderful days...