Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

This isn't new, its the way the internet started. They also do not need to do this for any form of limitations, or tech reasons, this is simply to get people to pay more, there is no reason to do this, this time.
 

That's a little like saying your water company doesn't need to charge people more who use more water.  The water itself is essentially free, you are paying them for the network of pipes and pumps it takes to get the water from the lake to you... Should a standard residential customer pay the same amount monthly as some guy with a tree farm who uses 20 - 50 times as much water as the average user?  Of course not.

Your ISP's lines do have a limit, and their bandwidth does have a value.  While our equipment gets the customers traffic to our office, from there it goes to SWB lines that we have to pay for.. the more lines we need, the more it costs us.  Our business model is based on only having a certain percentage of our customers using the service at any one time.  Say we had 100Mbps capacity on one outgoing line.  If a customer is running constant P2P traffic at 5Mb around the clock, that essentially lowers our overall capacity to 95Mbps... now imagine 5 or 10 people doing it. 

If you are one of the extreme users on your network, you should know your ISP doesn't care about your threats to take your purchasing dollars elswhere... they welcome it.  For every customer they have abusing the system, there are hundreds or even thousands of normal use customers.  The people using 20 - 30Gb a day are costing their ISP money... why would the providers care if these types of users threaten to quit.  I think that's part of the point to tiered pricing. ;)

It's worth noting that most ISPs do have an unpublished maximum monthly throughput. Do a search on your ISP and "glass cap" to find out if your ISP enforces one now and get an idea what it is.  These limits are usually set really high, and are in place just to take out the most abusive file hosting machines... but there is usually a limit on your "unlimited" service.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

This isn't new, its the way the internet started. They also do not need to do this for any form of limitations, or tech reasons, this is simply to get people to pay more, there is no reason to do this, this time.
 

 

That's a little like saying your water company doesn't need to charge people more who use more water.  The water itself is essentially free, you are paying them for the network of pipes and pumps it takes to get the water from the lake to you... Should a standard residential customer pay the same amount monthly as some guy with a tree farm who uses 20 - 50 times as much water as the average user?  Of course not.

Your ISP's lines do have a limit, and their bandwidth does have a value.  While our equipment gets the customers traffic to our office, from there it goes to SWB lines that we have to pay for.. the more lines we need, the more it costs us.  Our business model is based on only having a certain percentage of our customers using the service at any one time.  Say we had 100Mbps capacity on one outgoing line.  If a customer is running constant P2P traffic at 5Mb around the clock, that essentially lowers our overall capacity to 95Mbps... now imagine 5 or 10 people doing it. 

If you are one of the extreme users on your network, you should know your ISP doesn't care about your threats to take your purchasing dollars elswhere... they welcome it.  For every customer they have abusing the system, there are hundreds or even thousands of normal use customers.  The people using 20 - 30Gb a day are costing their ISP money... why would the providers care if these types of users threaten to quit.  I think that's part of the point to tiered pricing. ;)

look, i had to put up with plenty of ignorant retard providers,, first one wasnt even legit.. it sucket balls.. i even stoped paying.. they said they will sue me.. its funny when they provided terrible service, where things as even playing wow ( which omfg uses what 8kb/s a sec mostly , which is gotten from dialup, was pretty much impossible with constant 1k ping )

then our main telephone giant, decide to go for internet , so they offered some really good options.. i was like hell ye,  i freakin subscired to them for 2 years.. that was biggest mistake i ever did..  and i will never ever again , gona be tied down for any service, it better give me free house if they want me to use theirs crap for years

i enjoyed my internet for maybe half year.. till it became such trash

they had like complete monopoly , and  they choke on it.. lines were full, they started upgrading.. offering cable instead of dsl ( not everywhere still ) , you know what now its known as most bullshit internet provider, the day my subscribtion with them ended.. i called them.. and said internet was CRAP , it was perfect 5 mins after.. it went bad again tho.. and i just canceled it.. as i finally could

now i have another provider, and when i ask do you provide xx speed.. and XXX speed no xxxx-xxxx, and no limitations.. and i get answer yes.. i EXPECT that to be the case 

i used my 100 mb line fully for many times, especially when i joined them at start, as it was nowhere near compared to what i have.. no matter how i love or enjoy my current line, if they gonna come babling that i am using too much, or try to limit me.. ill find someone new, whos here to replace them, as they were to replace , previous giant, who chocked on how much they could take

if you have 10 ppl in a house using 100 mb line .. i expect that house have access to 1000 line , if you get another 5, add another 500 , and i dont give a crap how much it cost

you know.. here in europe, we pay for 2 things , specially small country like mine, there are cable and all hardware.. and another is trafic to foreign countries

while in usa, you pretty much get a long with cable and hardware, considering how fast underwater cabble you got to london/paris , and the size of america , is twice as europe.. alone

so going on about something as LIMITING is joke

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

This isn't new, its the way the internet started. They also do not need to do this for any form of limitations, or tech reasons, this is simply to get people to pay more, there is no reason to do this, this time.
 

 

That's a little like saying your water company doesn't need to charge people more who use more water.  The water itself is essentially free, you are paying them for the network of pipes and pumps it takes to get the water from the lake to you... Should a standard residential customer pay the same amount monthly as some guy with a tree farm who uses 20 - 50 times as much water as the average user?  Of course not.

Your ISP's lines do have a limit, and their bandwidth does have a value.  While our equipment gets the customers traffic to our office, from there it goes to SWB lines that we have to pay for.. the more lines we need, the more it costs us.  Our business model is based on only having a certain percentage of our customers using the service at any one time.  Say we had 100Mbps capacity on one outgoing line.  If a customer is running constant P2P traffic at 5Mb around the clock, that essentially lowers our overall capacity to 95Mbps... now imagine 5 or 10 people doing it. 

If you are one of the extreme users on your network, you should know your ISP doesn't care about your threats to take your purchasing dollars elswhere... they welcome it.  For every customer they have abusing the system, there are hundreds or even thousands of normal use customers.  The people using 20 - 30Gb a day are costing their ISP money... why would the providers care if these types of users threaten to quit.  I think that's part of the point to tiered pricing. ;)

Coming from a small isp, that may be the case.  An isp the size of TWC is a tad different.  You also have to realize that not just the dirty file sharing pirates (sarcasm) will leave.  Most people, I think, will move elsewhere when they come along and say "We know you've been a loyal customer for x amount of time and we appreciate your money, but just so you know, you now only get to use a certain portion of our internet access for your needs without paying us more.  Thanks and have a great day!"  Yep, most people will stay I'm sure, lol.

Z

You are just incorrect.  Every type of media, even fiber has a limit, and costs for initial installation and maintenance.  You are saying you don't care about those limits and ISPs should just upgrade to meet the demands of their heaviest users.... and you don't care what it costs to do so.  Well, who do you suppose is going to pay for these expensive network upgrades?  Should the average customer using 30Gb a month shoulder the cost or should it weigh more heavily on the guys pushing that much traffic every single day? 

IMO the  cost should fall on the P2P abusers.  We can all agree that the worst network hogs fall in to that category.  If the prospect of paying their fair share chases the abusive users off my network... that can't really be seen as a negative from my perspective. 

 edit.. this was a response to the post two above.  The poster above me snuck a reply in while I was typing.

To respond to that post.  I know the larger ISPs will draw the line in different places, and they can afford to set their limits a lot higher than us.  I just think most people will be pleasantly surprised to see that their traffic falls in the average use category... and they only need the basic residental pricing.  Even the big companies would like to be rid of their worst 1 per cent.  I know that they deal in volume and wouldnt want to lose 1% of their profits, but those top one percent of bandwidth users aren't generating a profit.... they cost their ISP money every month.

Every single year the bandwidth we use goes up. Will the cable companies compensate? I doubt it.

Another problem is that the cable companies claim they are doing this, because of companies like Vonage, etc. Ok, well charge them, not me. I don't use the internet for my phone or to watch cable tv on my laptop.

I'm not sure how much bandwidth I use, but I'm willing to bet its a good amount. 200GB would be a guesstimate. I watch a lot of shows on Netflix, and ABC.com. No, I don't download illegal stuff. Not sure what is meant by that. 

In ten years 200GB a month will seem like 1GB did ten years ago. Not very much by today's standards. I guarantee the cable companies will not adjust. This sort of plan will stiffle web technology. The cable company needs to go after the people who are causing the bandwidth problems. If they need to jack up subscription charges that's understandable. My service price hasn't ever gone up. I can understand that I'm probably using 100X the bandwidth I did ten years ago. There was barely anything out there, yet its been 40 dollars a month forever.

Funny how this thread has gotten so far off of MMOs.  Is that a concession that this is not relevant to MMOs, but only to other Internet uses? 

On a side note, is there a way for ME to see how much bandwidth I'm using?  We have 3 computers and they all are used for MMO's (among other things of course, lol).  I would like to see what they consume, even just across one PC would be nice.

Z

Originally posted by IronZ

On a side note, is there a way for ME to see how much bandwidth I'm using?  We have 3 computers and they all are used for MMO's (among other things of course, lol).  I would like to see what they consume, even just across one PC would be nice.

 

Z

http://www.simplehelp.net/2007/09/09/how-to-monitor-your-internet-bandwidth-usage-in-windows/

I thought this is how it used to be?  Didn't you have to pay per usage in the old days?  I thought they stopped that and went with a monthly flat rate because people didn't like it?  Are they stupid or what? 

Edit:  What's the 10GB have to do with anything?  It's not like connections got faster while their resources remained the same.  Anyway, I think this is a retarded idea.  They better have a monopoly ready, because people will just switch providers if possible.  If everybody decides to take this idea, it would only take one company offering a flat monthly rate to destroy the competition.  Hey, maybe I can become a millionaire? :D

The way it used to be was that connections were too slow to use 10 GB in a month even if you were using your maximum capacity 24 hours per day every day.  If you want to go back further than that, you can decrease the 10 GB figure quite a bit, too, though you'd have to go back to the days when few people had any Internet access. 

Originally posted by Lamarak

Well all eyes are on Time warner and thier planned tiered pricing of the internet. Can read some of it here http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2009/tc20090331_726397.htm.    The more you use the more you can pay. And the other providers are going to be watching closely and see how many people react to this. If this has any kind of success i wouldnt be surpised to see other providers start to look at this. With the popluarity of streaming movies, TV, songs, and of course gaming, this can have alot of implications i the next year.

I really think unless the governmemt steps in soon, we all can see this type of pricing of monthly usage of the internet become the norm where you pay like 60 bucks for 40 gigs a month then 1 dollar per gig you go over.

So what do you think of this?

Welcome to Austraila, where we can $70au for 40gig a month,( Adam internet ADSL2+) I was really hoping that Austraila would follow the rest of the world and go unlimited, but it looks like you guys are going to follow us instead :(.

I did some checking today, 98% of 1.8million Inet users for my company don't use more than 15gb per month bandwidth.

Hopefully there are alternatives to those who have Time Warner. Speak with your wallets and switch providers.

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

When I emigrated to N.America from the UK I couldn't believe how lucky the continent is with internet speeds and caps not to mention pricing.

I as so impressed that I went and got my first job with my ISP who just happens to do the fastest DL speed in N America  :P

LOL Shaw is terrible, had what WAS 10 and is now 15 for 3 months, it was garbage. Told em to shove it, have Telus 15 now and im ACCTUALY getting 15 meg DSL AT ALL TIME, meaning at dinner time when everyone is jumping on thier crap shaw connections my speed doesnt bottom out.

PS your comment about 98% of users blah blah blah is great, 1. downgrade thier speed as they are OBVIOUSLY not useing,

2. leave MY connection the way it is, High Speed price in canada are bad enough without shaw and thier "we dont have contracts" chargeing stupid amounts that they are.

Originally posted by ianicus

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

When I emigrated to N.America from the UK I couldn't believe how lucky the continent is with internet speeds and caps not to mention pricing.

I as so impressed that I went and got my first job with my ISP who just happens to do the fastest DL speed in N America  :P

 

LOL Shaw is terrible, had the whats WAS 10 and is now 15 for 3 months, it was garbage. Told em to shove it, have Telus 15 now and im ACCTUALY getting 15 meg DSL AT ALL TIME, meaning at dinner time when everyone is jumping on thier crap shaw connections my speed doesnt bottom out.

Check out speedtest.net and you will find the average speed  for telus in western canada in under 3mb, also as per topic title enjoy the $2 charge for going over the lower bandwidth cap which sucks, not to mention if you have their tv service then enjoy that shared connection for IPTV which will put your inet to 1.5mb sec. Dslforums also show the average 15mb telus line is around 12mb/s on that connection you can't have tv service with them for that faster speed. Not to mention contracts with all those stipulations. There are ways around congestion which can be solved with a quick phone call + cheaper price by halve ;) $80 an hour service call charges with telus is archaic though not to mention the massive packet shaping, torrent port blocking and so on.

Most companies are forward thinking in not charging you if you do go over the bandwidth cap, as things progress people will find the sting in their wallet and simply move on, when that time comes it is unfortunate they then find themselves in a contract with cost $100+ to get out of.

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

I did some checking today, 98% of 1.8million Inet users for my company don't use more than 15gb per month bandwidth.

I used more than that yesterday. C'mon, downloading 1 game will cost you 15gb now-a-days.

Let's see what I've got downloaded.

Fallout 3 -5.6gb

Sacred 2 - 12.7gb

AoC - 29.6gb

Vanguard - 19.3gb

LoTRO - 12.9gb

EQ2 - 10.9gb

So, all of these games have a digital distribution option, which leads me to wonder, what will happen to store fronts vs. digital delivery if this happens. There was a recent thread about how PC games are disappearing from brick and mortar stores. Granted, you can still order online, but people in general, especially Americans, have a very "now" mentality when it comes to purchases. Not many people will be happy waiting for the postman, but these people will not be able to download due to ISP limitations. Will this lead to the return of physical boxes in stores?

Personally I think it's all a load of, well, you know what.

I use a ton of bandwidth, luckily Comcast is set at 250gb a month, which is gargantuan enough I'm not concerned about crossing it, but if the norm starts to drop I could be in trouble. A lot of ISPs will claim caps are to prevent people from using services intended for home to run a business or to prevent piracy. The problem is, with iTunes, YouTube, social networking sites, photo/video sharing sites, digital game distribution and "other" entertainment abundant on the web, there is almost no limit to the amount of data you can get your hands on legally and, most of the time, cheap or free.

I don't know if this will make sense, getting ready to go to bed and wanted to throw my 2 coppers in the pile and see how they mix.

Catch you jive turkeys on the flip side. Peace.

Originally posted by skeaser

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

I did some checking today, 98% of 1.8million Inet users for my company don't use more than 15gb per month bandwidth.

 

I used more than that yesterday. C'mon, downloading 1 game will cost you 15gb now-a-days.

Let's see what I've got downloaded.

Fallout 3 -5.6gb

Sacred 2 - 12.7gb

AoC - 29.6gb

Vanguard - 19.3gb

LoTRO - 12.9gb

EQ2 - 10.9gb

So, all of these games have a digital distribution option, which leads me to wonder, what will happen to store fronts vs. digital delivery if this happens. There was a recent thread about how PC games are disappearing from brick and mortar stores. Granted, you can still order online, but people in general, especially Americans, have a very "now" mentality when it comes to purchases. Not many people will be happy waiting for the postman, but these people will not be able to download due to ISP limitations. Will this lead to the return of physical boxes in stores?

Personally I think it's all a load of, well, you know what.

I use a ton of bandwidth, luckily Comcast is set at 250gb a month, which is gargantuan enough I'm not concerned about crossing it, but if the norm starts to drop I could be in trouble. A lot of ISPs will claim caps are to prevent people from using services intended for home to run a business or to prevent piracy. The problem is, with iTunes, YouTube, social networking sites, photo/video sharing sites, digital game distribution and "other" entertainment abundant on the web, there is almost no limit to the amount of data you can get your hands on legally and, most of the time, cheap or free.

I don't know if this will make sense, getting ready to go to bed and wanted to throw my 2 coppers in the pile and see how they mix.

Catch you jive turkeys on the flip side. Peace.

Perfect examples. Comapnys who do this will just be loosing customers who will than switch somewhere else. I in no way see this happeing in places where you have other choices for your internet :D

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

Originally posted by ianicus

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

When I emigrated to N.America from the UK I couldn't believe how lucky the continent is with internet speeds and caps not to mention pricing.

I as so impressed that I went and got my first job with my ISP who just happens to do the fastest DL speed in N America  :P

 

LOL Shaw is terrible, had the whats WAS 10 and is now 15 for 3 months, it was garbage. Told em to shove it, have Telus 15 now and im ACCTUALY getting 15 meg DSL AT ALL TIME, meaning at dinner time when everyone is jumping on thier crap shaw connections my speed doesnt bottom out.

 

Check out speedtest.net and you will find the average speed  for telus in western canada in under 3mb, also as per topic title enjoy the $2 charge for going over the lower bandwidth cap which sucks, not to mention if you have their tv service then enjoy that shared connection for IPTV which will put your inet to 1.5mb sec. Dslforums also show the average 15mb telus line is around 12mb/s on that connection you can't have tv service with them for that faster speed. Not to mention contracts with all those stipulations. There are ways around congestion which can be solved with a quick phone call + cheaper price by halve ;) $80 an hour service call charges with telus is archaic though not to mention the massive packet shaping, torrent port blocking and so on.

Most companies are forward thinking in not charging you if you do go over the bandwidth cap, as things progress people will find the sting in their wallet and simply move on, when that time comes it is unfortunate they then find themselves in a contract with cost $100+ to get out of.

WOW you shaw reps really DO love to lie about the competition! amazing!

1. Ive never been charged for a "service call" for my internet or phone.....ever

2. TELUS does not block Torrent ports, if they did I wouldnt be getting the great speeds I am. And on the topic about congestion, why should I have to call MY isp to make sure Im receiveing the speed im paying for at all times?? I shouldnt...

3. Im useing Satellite TV with NO contract and its a WHOLE load cheaper than Shaw HD

4. Im not in ANY contracts with Telus OR bell for TV or Internet, I paid for my equipment with Bell, just like shaw makes you (but Bells was cheaper), and telus gave me 15 meg inet for 25 bucks a month for a YEAR on MONTH TO MONTH with a free modem, and even after that im only going to be at 30.95 (less than shaw).

5. My phone service with telus is the SAME price as Shaws, 20.95 and 500% more reliable, IP telephony is CRAP, just ask the kid that died because his parents had comwave, and dont BS me about your "private ntework" its just as prone to connectivity issues as comwave, my aunt has had shaw phone for 2 years and they are just about fed up because at least once every two months they have a telephone outage... very poor product.

6. I probably double my Bandwidth cap every month with telus, you'll find they are alot more lienient than thier terms of service say, I've never even got letter, but I have friends that were CAPPED by Shaw for going over theirs.

7. Not that I have IPTV, but if you had ANY idea about how Telus IPTV works, they limit thier customers to 3 meg but they GET 3 meg, my buddy in dalhousie has Telus TV (which is about half the price of rapetastic shaw) and he still downloads at 350kbps WHILE watching tv, thanks for coming out.

So what we learn here is that you dont spout your mouth off and try to MAKE yourself look smart, when in fact you have no sweet fing clue what your talking about. Shaw reps are TERRIBLE, I use to HATE calling thier customer service dept. Whenever I thought about canceling they would try to BS me with a bunch of technobable about how thier service was the holy grail...hahaha im afraid I was a little to smart for them. Im sure they pull it off on non tech savy people all the time, I was HELLA glad to tell them acctual facts and listen to them trip over thier own lies.

PS the average speed of internet most telus users have is 3 meg....no wonder thats what the speed test average is lol math and common sense are seriously lacking here. 3 meg is all MOST people need. we gamers might need more, but mom and dad webcamming with thier kids and emailing and browsing youtube dont need anything faster....

and all this coming from and AoC player....why am I not suprised...ugh