Haha oh god i love it when people suddently face the truth! :D

What this guy explained is the reason why western mmorpgs suck so much! Yeah they're all fancy and what not but none of them have any REAL endgame! When i say real endgame is when i mean like Lineage2. When your max level and youve done the raids and gotten urself to max level. Whats the next thing to do? PvP arena? Boooring!

And what makes Lineage2 shine so much more than other mmorpgs in the endgame stage?

1 thing...

>> Meaningfull Castle Seige MASS PvP which is politicly driven! <<

It still have raids and hardcore dungeons but i think a mmorpg must have something more than raids and dungeons to survive! The PvP in WoW forexample has the same shitty reason as the raids! Gear Gear Gear!!!!

While as the stated example "Lineage2" has politics and when i played it 2 years ago with my guild on the official servers and we were raiding a castle it wasnt much at all for the castle and its benefits at all. It was about kicking those bastards asses that declared war on us and thought they could get away with it!

Blah blah blah heroic speech blah blah!

And that my friend is a fun endgame! ^^ Raids suck!

(I personally have nothing against pve but raids are just an awfull awfull sollution to getting 12 yearold skip school)

I dont know whats your problem on raiding over and over to get the SHINY WEPONS *oooh ahh* but doing it over and over is because of the ...drop rate.You see it makes it very stupid if some idot in your party disides to take all the SHINY WEPONS and SHINY GEAR all for them selves!

But WAIT-we can do it all over again and get diffrent stuff-now thats epic!See where im going with this...not everything should drop in one raid cuz if you were to do it again it would be a bad experience and very very dull and lazy for blizzard.If you want this to happen go play MABINOGI or something...nexon #%@$.

Yes endgame does tend to get boring thats why we get new raid dungeons every once in a while and the same events every year-which they should put more events in.Improve the community in game.AND LET HORDE AND ALLIANCE UNDERSTAND THE SPEACH-ITS STUPID NOT UNDERSTANDING...a little something called english not darriansian..

Think this over and maybe you will come back to WoW one day-or not who knows.

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Josher

I played WOW the most during its 1st year.  Once I got to the endgame where I had to raid on a fairly consistant basis, I quit too.  Did I hate the game afterwards?  Hell no.  I had more fun playing than any other MMO.  I returned for a couple of months at a time for the expansions, because I couldn't raid whenever I wanted to.  My life didn't allow me to.  It'll NEVER allow me to.  Do I hate the game?  Hell no.  Is it a bad game for it?  Hell no.  I know plenty of others that are happy raiding, figuring out the bosses, ect.  You get out what you put in.  Don't rush.  Play for fun.  WOW unlike most other MMOs allows you to play at different paces without punishing you for it.  Levling up isn't tedious or painful.  Its a fun journey.  WOW has always been about the journey.  Its endgame is no worse than any others.  Its just a bit more varried.

Rushing in a MMO is the worst thing you could ever do.  If the game feels like a grind and you admit to rushing to cap you level, then blame your playstyle.  Don't blame the game, esspecially one like WOW, thats designed to played casually.   Watching a movie in fast forward isn't quite as enjoyable as watching it in normal speed.  If you pruposely watch at 4X, can you blame the studio for making a bad movie?  Nope.  Blame yourself for pushing fast forward on the remote.  STEP AWAY FROM THE REMOTE PEOPLE!!!!  Play at normal speed.  Enjoy yourself.

As far as Eve's endgame.  Eve's engame starts at login.  You realize you're bored stiff in the first hour and uninstall the trial...like MOST PEOPLE DO.

 

You cant compare watching a movie to playing an mmo......especially one like WoW. A movie lasts for a few hours at most and is full of varied content.....well......most films are anyway unless its a really boring one. Even then if the film is bad it doesnt matter as it doesnt last too long. They are not designed to take up large sections of your life. Most mmos on the other hand take months to play through and involve repeating the same actions over and over again.......all dressed up in slightly different graphics as you progress through it all. Quite a few lunatics even play them for years.

Yes I can, if you understood the analogy=)  It was just about NOT rushing.  A great movie isn't so great if you rush through it, just like a great MMO.  Rushing through something not designed to be rushed through can ruin the experience. MMOs shouldn't be rushed through just like movies or books shouldn't be rushed through.  Thats all.  This rushing concept was invented back in the EQ days becuase the journey really wasn't fun.  The cool stuff, the RAIDS, couldn't be done until you reached certain levels and those were the best parts.  DAOC followed suit.  Leveling up was quite tedious and boring, but the endgame was quite fun for a time. People rushed through the leveling parts of both games to get to the GOOD parts.  WOW on the other hand is good in the first minute.  Its ALL the good part.  Leveling up is part of the fun not something you trudge or RUSH THROUGH to get to the good parts.  By rushing through WOW, you are in n fact skipping most of the good stuff.

---

Originally posted by Sneakers05
After getting my level 80 elemental shaman in a raid guild, after doing the same 3-4 heroic instances to get the gear i needed to raid, I joined a raid guild, constantly we did the same raid naxxramas, eye of eternity and malygos those three same raids, the same thing over and over and over again. Just hoping for loot.
When I was leveling my alt to 80, something just came accross my mind that this is what I will be doing with this character, the same few instances, to the same few raids just to to keep grinding for loot and waiting months after months for a different raid.  There was no different exploration, there was no different content, it was rushing to 80 to do the same grind that i did on my shaman.
 
Is it worth it? The 15 dollars a month to constantly do this same repetition? Then I quit WoW. but is this problem just in WOW?  Are there any mmorpgs with a different end game where there are different goals? If there is can any one recommend me one? I am extremely bored and its not that I am burned out there is a big difference between being burned out and just plain bored.
 

So can any one recommend me a mmorpg or am I going to go back to single player rpgs and wait for the next best thing?

---

I think a large part of the problem with MMORPG's these days, is that everyone is in a race to get to the end game, and not enjoying the actual game.

  How many of you have a level 80 in wow, that actually built him/her all 80 levels, and maxed a couple profesions, and fishing, etc... more or less did everything you could do?

 That goes for all the other games?

 Why are gold sellers doing so well? Because no one wants to play the game, they want short vuts, they want end game, then they get there, and realize, oh, this sucks.....

Lol, I am just like this, I have ALWAYS played the game just for fun. And if I get some kick ass gear along the way, that just adds to it!. I've had some really "good times" on WoW.I remember after a MC raid, me and my friend stayed up for another 2 hours just talking about how cool it was, and we hadn't even finished it!  I've played it basically since it launched, and yes, it can get a little repettive at times, but thats when you take a break from the game for a while and go do something else. Even if you don't want to take a break, you can still find something else to do on the game besides raiding lol.

But like I said above, what I do if I start getting a little bored with a game is take a break from it. Maybe not play for a month or 2 and come back to it later.

Originally posted by LogothX

Originally posted by Korvenus

Ok, let me make sure I got this. You started a trial of an MMO and expect to come in doing the same things as the people who have been playing for years?

 

Oh, and its not 40 levels before you can get into that stuff its 76 levels.

 

Here's what I said.

***

40 hours

***

 

Here's what you wrote.

 

***

Oh, and its not 40 levels before you can get into that stuff its 76 levels

***

 

 

Your very post reinforces the tired mentality that's plaguing the genre. Again, can you give a reasonable explanation as to why I have to work to get to the supposed real parts of the game?

 

Why can't I start the "real" game when I load the game and work my way up from there? Aside from providing the obvious answer of subscription fees, what other real reason could there be?

 

Furthermore, I wasnt expecting this game to break the convention, I was merely hoping the game had some kind of tolerable progression (I had heard they made things easier for new players). I joined one of the supposedly most populated servers and find myself drudging the same garbage as other MMORPGs. Acting as an errand boy for moronic villagers, in an empty newbie zone, or killing random wildlife in an empty newbie zone. Gee, I can log onto Runes of Magic and kill some Reindeer... or I can log on to lineage 2 to kill some wolves... or I can log onto WoW to kill some Mutant Sea lions, or whatever the hell WOTLK newbie quests tell you to do.

 

I am not going to try to explain anything to anybody because its not that serious. Nobdoy forces you to do anything in life. If you dont like todays MMOs then go do something else with your time. Get out and get a girl, start going to the park and play some kind of sport. People act like there is always supposed to be a MMO on the market that caters to them and its not like that and it never will be. Why do people play todays MMOs is the same as why people play games in general. Because they have fun playing them. Just because you dont have anything to play dont come here and  hate on the people who are having fun playing todays MMOs. I feel sorry for you and everybody else like you. All I can say is sorry for your damn luck.

Oh, and all the people like you should read what Lordtwisted posted above. I have come to find out that alot of people really dont know how to play a MMO.

Originally posted by Sneakers05

After getting my level 80 elemental shaman in a raid guild, after doing the same 3-4 heroic instances to get the gear i needed to raid, I joined a raid guild, constantly we did the same raid naxxramas, eye of eternity and malygos those three same raids, the same thing over and over and over again. Just hoping for loot.

When I was leveling my alt to 80, something just came accross my mind that this is what I will be doing with this character, the same few instances, to the same few raids just to to keep grinding for loot and waiting months after months for a different raid.  There was no different exploration, there was no different content, it was rushing to 80 to do the same grind that i did on my shaman.

 

Is it worth it? The 15 dollars a month to constantly do this same repetition? Then I quit WoW. but is this problem just in WOW?  Are there any mmorpgs with a different end game where there are different goals? If there is can any one recommend me one? I am extremely bored and its not that I am burned out there is a big difference between being burned out and just plain bored.

 

So can any one recommend me a mmorpg or am I going to go back to single player rpgs and wait for the next best thing?

Air highfive, uhm I reccomend RuneScape laugh in my face but Iw ould pay money to forget everything  I know about that game and start over I had so much fun on it and the end game goals seem endless it is ina sense grindy but the quests and gmaeplay make up for it.

I was in the exact same shoes as you at one point. I would bounce back and forth from many different free to play as well as pay to play mmos after my wow 'revolation." Then i tried Guild Wars. While it didnt deliver on exactly i was looking for (and lets be honest, very few people are ever going to find exactly what they are looking for in an MMO) it did deliver alot of admirable stuff. A rich story, nice atmosphere with graphics and sound i enjoy, and most importantly it is free to play. It was this key point that broke the mental barrier that seemed to exist with mmos for me. I can make alts until the cows come home with no reason to feel bad cos its free. Also I used to very much rush to get to end game in other MMOs with the idea of getting my money's worth, so to speak. Since it is a free to play game i have found more than enough people willing to take their time and enjoy the rich content in the game. They all share the same mentality, game is free so why not just take your time, the game is not going anywhere nor is your subscription time.

However, that being said it is great for me. No ones opinion will matter as much as your own. Go to the official site, there is a free trial, give it a shot and decide for yourself.

Final Fantasy XI is the only other MMO that I can say that I really enjoyed playing. It is very similar to Lineage 2 in alot of ways.

 i dont know if its been mentioned yet but runes of magic looks quite promising.  its got a pvp system similar to conquer online but theres no way to completely protect ur loot (unless u individually protect every piece) but the thing is everyone has a % droprate on all items, equipped, bound or in bags (not item shop items tho).  runes of magic is built ridiculously like wow.  like, ull scream copyright infringement everytime u play but its got huge differences.  iunno, try it

Originally posted by Korvenus

Originally posted by LogothX

Originally posted by Korvenus

Ok, let me make sure I got this. You started a trial of an MMO and expect to come in doing the same things as the people who have been playing for years?

 

Oh, and its not 40 levels before you can get into that stuff its 76 levels.

 

Here's what I said.

***

40 hours

***

 

Here's what you wrote.

 

***

Oh, and its not 40 levels before you can get into that stuff its 76 levels

***

 

 

Your very post reinforces the tired mentality that's plaguing the genre. Again, can you give a reasonable explanation as to why I have to work to get to the supposed real parts of the game?

 

Why can't I start the "real" game when I load the game and work my way up from there? Aside from providing the obvious answer of subscription fees, what other real reason could there be?

 

Furthermore, I wasnt expecting this game to break the convention, I was merely hoping the game had some kind of tolerable progression (I had heard they made things easier for new players). I joined one of the supposedly most populated servers and find myself drudging the same garbage as other MMORPGs. Acting as an errand boy for moronic villagers, in an empty newbie zone, or killing random wildlife in an empty newbie zone. Gee, I can log onto Runes of Magic and kill some Reindeer... or I can log on to lineage 2 to kill some wolves... or I can log onto WoW to kill some Mutant Sea lions, or whatever the hell WOTLK newbie quests tell you to do.

 

I am not going to try to explain anything to anybody because its not that serious. Nobdoy forces you to do anything in life. If you dont like todays MMOs then go do something else with your time. Get out and get a girl, start going to the park and play some kind of sport. People act like there is always supposed to be a MMO on the market that caters to them and its not like that and it never will be. Why do people play todays MMOs is the same as why people play games in general. Because they have fun playing them. Just because you dont have anything to play dont come here and  hate on the people who are having fun playing todays MMOs. I feel sorry for you and everybody else like you. All I can say is sorry for your damn luck.

Oh, and all the people like you should read what Lordtwisted posted above. I have come to find out that alot of people really dont know how to play a MMO.

 

ill explain it to him. yo 'him' the reason is cuz its what the people have shown they want.  explained.  u forget?  theyre in business to make money

To the OP: if you think WoW endgame is repetitive, how about most of the games, including physical games, are repetitve.

In tennis, you keep trying to bat the ball back to the other side of the court.  In bars, you keep trying to woo the next girl to bed (pun intended).  Come on, its the process you enjoy.  If you like drinking, you will realise each glass of wine is not the same.  If you are serious, eating is repetitive.  So is breathing.

Being repetitive is not a big pain, if that is not all there is to life.  WoW or quite a few of the good games, can be fun, if spiced with everything else that is there is life.  Log on WoW only if you want to do something in the game for a short while, and log out when your level of attention wanes or something better comes to mind.  Quit WoW when  you feel you lose the incentive to log on, and resub when that mood suddenly comes back.

That is all there is, no biggie.

---

Originally posted by Orthedos
To the OP: if you think WoW endgame is repetitive, how about most of the games, including physical games, are repetitve.
In tennis, you keep trying to bat the ball back to the other side of the court.  In bars, you keep trying to woo the next girl to bed (pun intended).  Come on, its the process you enjoy.  If you like drinking, you will realise each glass of wine is not the same.  If you are serious, eating is repetitive.  So is breathing.
Being repetitive is not a big pain, if that is not all there is to life.  WoW or quite a few of the good games, can be fun, if spiced with everything else that is there is life.  Log on WoW only if you want to do something in the game for a short while, and log out when your level of attention wanes or something better comes to mind.  Quit WoW when  you feel you lose the incentive to log on, and resub when that mood suddenly comes back.
That is all there is, no biggie.

---

Originally posted by Orthedos

To the OP: if you think WoW endgame is repetitive, how about most of the games, including physical games, are repetitve.

In tennis, you keep trying to bat the ball back to the other side of the court.  In bars, you keep trying to woo the next girl to bed (pun intended).  Come on, its the process you enjoy.  If you like drinking, you will realise each glass of wine is not the same.  If you are serious, eating is repetitive.  So is breathing.

Being repetitive is not a big pain, if that is not all there is to life.  WoW or quite a few of the good games, can be fun, if spiced with everything else that is there is life.  Log on WoW only if you want to do something in the game for a short while, and log out when your level of attention wanes or something better comes to mind.  Quit WoW when  you feel you lose the incentive to log on, and resub when that mood suddenly comes back.

That is all there is, no biggie.

The different is what changes during the repetition.

In WoW, once you've done <insert any instance here> 10 times, there's really not that much else to it.  The people might change, but the focus is on beating the instance, and the method to beat it really doesn't change all that much.  Tank takes damage, dps deals damage, healer heals.  Boss is going to do A, B, C, and you need to do E, F, and G to beat him.  WoW really shines the first few repetitions of any part of the game, but can really get dull when you've done it too much and there's nothing else to really do.

This isn't just an issue with WoW - it's an issue with any limited content PvE game, which is just about every PvE based game out there.

The only solution right now is PvP.  In PvP, you may be capturing that flag over and over and over, but the situation is constantly changing and evolving into something you haven't played before.  Even then, it can get dull and boring after enough repitition.

I think the solution to this issue is expanding gameplay overtime rather than just adding content.  In WoW, you can kill mobs, go into an instance and kill mobs with a group, or kill other players.  Crafting is very streamlined and not all that interesting.  Each expansion just adds more mobs to kill, extra tools to kill stuff with, and new stuff to get when you kill something.

WoW's great from a business standpoint because it's got enough content for millions of casual players to never burn through.  For more hardcore and serious gamers, the only thing there for a long period of time is the loot system, and a lot of us have realized that it's a big waste of time.  I personally love WoW and plan on returning at some point, but I have no motivation to get on my 80 paladin and grind out some gear in instances I've already played through a bunch.  Introduce some new interesting and fun gameplay mechanisms and I'll resub immediately.

The world needs to be more dynamic.  We need some GM run invasions.  Super mobs should spawn randomly in the world, word gets around, a guild gets everyone together and attacks it while another guild tries to stop them.  There's really a lot that can be done with some creativity.

In short, WoW needs to mix it up a bit.

Originally posted by Sneakers05

After getting my level 80 elemental shaman in a raid guild, after doing the same 3-4 heroic instances to get the gear i needed to raid, I joined a raid guild, constantly we did the same raid naxxramas, eye of eternity and malygos those three same raids, the same thing over and over and over again. Just hoping for loot.

When I was leveling my alt to 80, something just came accross my mind that this is what I will be doing with this character, the same few instances, to the same few raids just to to keep grinding for loot and waiting months after months for a different raid.  There was no different exploration, there was no different content, it was rushing to 80 to do the same grind that i did on my shaman.

 

Is it worth it? The 15 dollars a month to constantly do this same repetition? Then I quit WoW. but is this problem just in WOW?  Are there any mmorpgs with a different end game where there are different goals? If there is can any one recommend me one? I am extremely bored and its not that I am burned out there is a big difference between being burned out and just plain bored.

 

So can any one recommend me a mmorpg or am I going to go back to single player rpgs and wait for the next best thing?

This is why I'm playing Oblivion, Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 currently as all MMOs are like this in one form or another right now. I'm hoping that some company will break the treadmill that current MMOs call an "end game" so I can get back into MMOs again but the near future looks bleak at best. The only MMOs I've played that didn't use this formula were Lineage II and EVE. EVE really doesn't have an end game and L2's is 100% PvP based. Both were great but I've been there and done that at this point. Hopefully something will come up in the future that will change this but I doubt it as the typical MMO player has no problem being a happy little hampster running his little legs off and getting nowhere. Until this changes we will be stuck in this MMO rut for a long time to come.

Bren

Originally posted by Master_Razor

 

---

Originally posted by Orthedos
To the OP: if you think WoW endgame is repetitive, how about most of the games, including physical games, are repetitve.
In tennis, you keep trying to bat the ball back to the other side of the court.  In bars, you keep trying to woo the next girl to bed (pun intended).  Come on, its the process you enjoy.  If you like drinking, you will realise each glass of wine is not the same.  If you are serious, eating is repetitive.  So is breathing.
Being repetitive is not a big pain, if that is not all there is to life.  WoW or quite a few of the good games, can be fun, if spiced with everything else that is there is life.  Log on WoW only if you want to do something in the game for a short while, and log out when your level of attention wanes or something better comes to mind.  Quit WoW when  you feel you lose the incentive to log on, and resub when that mood suddenly comes back.
That is all there is, no biggie.

---

That's a terrible analogy. Playing wow is like playing tennis? Playing wow is like digging holes in the ground. I'm sure you can find THAT fun. How about chopping wood? Sure those things have the capability of being fun, for a few minutes. But after a while it's nothing but work.

 

Frankly, I have as much interest in playing tennis as I have in digging holes or chopping wood.  Any repetetive activity that does not hold your interest is not going to be fun.  It's ighly subjective.  For me playing tennis would be the same as digging holse or chopping wood.  I would definetly prefer to play WoW over any of these activities.

Originally posted by Master_Razor

 

---

Originally posted by Orthedos
To the OP: if you think WoW endgame is repetitive, how about most of the games, including physical games, are repetitve.
In tennis, you keep trying to bat the ball back to the other side of the court.  In bars, you keep trying to woo the next girl to bed (pun intended).  Come on, its the process you enjoy.  If you like drinking, you will realise each glass of wine is not the same.  If you are serious, eating is repetitive.  So is breathing.
Being repetitive is not a big pain, if that is not all there is to life.  WoW or quite a few of the good games, can be fun, if spiced with everything else that is there is life.  Log on WoW only if you want to do something in the game for a short while, and log out when your level of attention wanes or something better comes to mind.  Quit WoW when  you feel you lose the incentive to log on, and resub when that mood suddenly comes back.
That is all there is, no biggie.

---

That's a terrible analogy. Playing wow is like playing tennis? Playing wow is like digging holes in the ground. I'm sure you can find THAT fun. How about chopping wood? Sure those things have the capability of being fun, for a few minutes. But after a while it's nothing but work.

 

Its amazing how many people love digging holes=)  Going on a raid a few times a week IS fun.  It only gets repetitive if you're doing it multiple times a night day after day after day in the same dungeon.  Considering how many different dungeons there are, anyone with a normal play schedual would be hard pressed to find it overly repetitive since you can do so many.   10 times is a lot for one dungeon.  But even then, if you're actually figuring it out, thats part of the fun.  The first 5 or 6 times, you haven't mastered the thing, unless you're using a walk through and if thats the case, I feel zero sympathy for anyone's BORDOM.  Thats YOUR freakin fault for cheating.  Once its on farm status and you're sleep walking your way through, its time to move on though.  Doing a dungeon by following a step by step guide NEVER makes it more fun.  Sorry.  

If you don't like PvE, then your opinion means nothing anyway;)   Considernig WOW has some the best PvE of any MMO, if WOW is boring they all are, which also means your opinion makes no difference.  Eventually content in a MMO gets repetitve.  PvE, PvP...ALL of it.  It'll ALWAYS get repetitve.  The type of game doesnt' matter.  You play one long enough, you're doing the same thing day after day at some point.  Its the nature of the beast and its NEVER going to change until we're all living in the Matrix.

Well like I said before. Most people, and that doesn't point fingers at anyone. Don't play an MMO.  Most people power level thier way through the game, by gold on internet websites so that they can twink thier toon to level at the fastest possible rate in order to play the end game.

     Then those people complain about how bad the end game is.

 I can not say anything about the end game from experience, I played WoW for about 6 months and was in the level 60's. But I did all of my own harvesting and crafting. I leveled Fishing. I traveled back and forth across the map for the current quest I was on, rather then useing a guide to tell me what quest I can stack to get the most XP from a travelling spot.

 I pretty much solo'ed because I leveled so slowly nobody wanted to play with me other then pick up groups.

 So back to my original observation. Those people that feel they need to race to the end of an MMO, not only ruin the game for themselves, because they don't get the true experience of the game, but they leave us, the ones that prefer to experience the game in time, behind with no  one to enjoy the game with. The true RPG gamers are a dieing breed due to the cheats, hacks, trainers, gold sites, etc... available to the community these days.

I'm going to give an example:

I've got a tailor in WoW and to go from 300-350 tailoring takes 725 Netherweave Cloth (and other material). To go from 350-440 takes 2975 Forstweave Cloth (and other material).

To farm all that cloth, or to farm the gold to buy it is going to take some time.

If I did it in one sitting non-stop I would get RSI and likely go insane, so like the Romans did you have to Divide and Conquer. Also an iPod or good music makes it go faster.

Eventually I know that I will get to 440 Tailoring and I could do some other stuff in between or I could double-up, farming mobs that are known to drop a certain item, but at 0.5%. If I farm them and it drops, awesome. If it doesn't then I still get cloth.

It doesn't matter if you play WAR, EQ2, LoTRO, FFXI or heck even Horizons, all MMO's to some degree have a grind. Some disguise it better than others (my own personal opinion is that AoC is one of the better MMO's at disguising grind), but ultimately the OP can write the same topic 10 years from now and it won't make a difference.

I doubt that Blizzards next MMO would have 0 grind, because by definition no MMO can end. Why else would they include achievements? With WoW's dailies it is also impossible to run out of quests, yes you may hit the limit of 25 for that day and I suppose once you hit a particular factions reputation you can in theory run out. Unless a quick 100g doesn't appeal.