I'm only reviewing a few things because I have NOT gotten very far in the game.

Good:

Combat system - The combat system in this game is rather unique and I find myself enjoying it. Both the rotary bar and the actual targeting have a good feel to them and are well done. I think this was a great idea and very refreshing change that isn't too extreme like what Darkfall did (though their's was bland too).

The World - Very unique. The whole flying ship in a wierd dimension thingy and the sky, that was actually a cave(?) in the first area was amazing.

Graphics - Clean, nice, vibrant, and I can run them on my mediocre computer.

The quests - Quests actually have a sort of...point to them? I'm not sure how to put it. Normally I'm asked to collect 10 bear pelts in an effort for this person to blanket the earth with them or some other stupid reason. It sort of feels like when I'm doing a quest that they actually try to give a good reason for doing it, almost like a story instead of a, "Just do this because my AI tells you to."

Group dynamic - This isn't something I can confirm, but someone has told me that in TCoS you really can't kill many things effectively later on in the game by yourself, and that grouping is far more effective.

Bad:

Auction house - Until the Bazaar is reintroduced from EQ or DAoC I'll probably never approve of a system for selling items, but Auction houses will always be my last choice.

The WoW effect - I get a WoW vibe from this game. Yes there's some uniqueness to it, but I can see the hoards of ventrillo servers for this game popping up, no one typing ever because of faster paced combat, and raiding for hours and hours for worthless items. I don't like actually talking to people because I simply don't care to talk to any of you via my voice. I prefer to type, and people who can't type while questing/grinding simply haven't played MMO's long enough to get their WPM up or are too lazy. That in itself could kill them game for me personally because when I try to talk to people, no one pays attention due to the fact they simply don't look at chat boxes since they're using their headsets.

Class specialization - I get the feeling with classes in this game is that a tank is a tank is a tank. Of course, I'm not far enough to know for sure, but it seems like classes may not be all that unique from one another.

The quests - To relate what It think is going to be bad about these, and to sort of add onto the WoW effect, quests are what they are, and chances are people in this game will be no different than all the other games that are putting them in now. People joining a group to complete a quest or two, then leaving whoever they grouped with because they got what they wanted and they don't care about whatever else the others have to finish, only caring about what they need. A lot of people on WoW or WAR want to get theirs, but sure as hell don't care about you getting yours.

With that said, I'm remaining cautiously optimistic about the game. It's fun, so we'll see how it turns out. Feel free to add to this or explain why you agree/disagree.

Originally posted by Clobster

 

The WoW effect - I get a WoW vibe from this game. Yes there's some uniqueness to it, but I can see the hoards of ventrillo servers for this game popping up, no one typing ever because of faster paced combat, and raiding for hours and hours for worthless items. I don't like actually talking to people because I simply don't care to talk to any of you via my voice. I prefer to type, and people who can't type while questing/grinding simply haven't played MMO's long enough to get their WPM up or are too lazy. That in itself could kill them game for me personally because when I try to talk to people, no one pays attention due to the fact they simply don't look at chat boxes since they're using their headsets.

 

A decent review but I cant understand the quoted bit above.

"the wow effect" people have been using headsets in games for a longtime and not just in MMo's,yes you may prefer to type were as others prefer to talk,this has nothing to do with how long they have played MMo's or there WPM it is there preference and hardly a "WoW effect",As for the raiding for hours and hours,the highest group when I was beta testing was 4 player's and as for pve raids it was going to be 2 groups of 4 no more(this has maybe changed I dont know but I doubt it as the devs were deadset against it)also as you armor has little bearing on your player's stats there is no need to "raid" unless you do it for the pure fun of it.

Nice summary! I haven't played too far yet, but the quests seem to be getting a bit more directed and meaningful. Some are getting really interesting. Finding the source of the poisoned well (around level 10ish) was one of the best MMOG quests I have ever done.

Interesting new player perspective.

Indeed, I have to agree that it has little to do with WoW that most players are using some sort of VOIP software these days....it's gaming in general. Personally I try to avoid using a headset unless I'm participating in some guild activity that demands it....mainly because I'm an older person and I'm not alone in the house. I like to be able to talk to the people who are in the room with me. However in a pitched PVP battle, or challenging PVE encounter, I admit that voice coms make ALL the difference, and become a necessary evil.

Seeing as how the game really isn't gear-based at all, I personally think an AH system is probably good enough. I prefer older systems such as shouting on a trade channel myself, but times are changing I guess.

However, I must hit on your Class Specialization concearns. Classes are VERY different, and unique in this game. All specs play very differently from each other, and have unique roles in groups.

Further, you cannot really break SB classes down into the traditional MMO roles, such as tank, healer, DPS, CC. This game breaks the traditional MMO mindset in almost every way...one almost has to "forget everything" they know about MMORPGs to really start to play Spellborn corectly. This is one of the MAJOR draws to this game for me...I love the fact that I feel like a complete n00b, and I feel like I'm playing my very first MMO.

Anyway....I won't rant over-long....I look forward to seeing what you think of the game once you've spent more time with it.

Safe Travels!

I have to agree, I wouldnt trouble yourself over the classes being too generic, theyre all very unusual and can play different roles from each other.

There is no 'healer' or 'tank', in fact that kind of tradition seems to have been thrown out the window. For example, the deathhand is an aoe rogue with healing who can use poisons to cause different effects. The Ancestral mage is a kind of hybrid mage-pet using-support healer whos pet can be used for buffing,healing,aoe and tanking blows.

I tanked AND healed while dishing out mad DPS in my group last night.

RUNE MAGE!!! RAWR!!!

I don't see what's so bad about an auction house.  Making it easy for buyers and sellers to find each other is a good thing.  Unless a game economy is going to be based on shipping goods back and forth, an auction house is the best way I've seen to do that.

I concur that typing in combat in this game is more awkward than in most others, but what's that have to do with WoW?  WoW is plenty friendly to people who want to type.  You sit there auto-attacking for a few seconds while you type what you want to say, and it doesn't matter that all you were doing during that time was auto-attacking.  What makes typing here harder is that you can't auto-attack and you need to dodge.

I'm not sure what you mean about tanks.  This game doesn't have tanks in the traditional MMORPG sense of the word.  If you want to argue that one class is a tank, you kind of have to argue that all classes are tanks.  That makes no sense.  There may or may not be sufficient distinction between the classes, but that's not a matter of tanking.

Originally posted by Quizzical

I don't see what's so bad about an auction house.  Making it easy for buyers and sellers to find each other is a good thing.  Unless a game economy is going to be based on shipping goods back and forth, an auction house is the best way I've seen to do that.

I just don't like auction houses, or auctions in general. When I go to buy something, I don't want to bid on anything, I simply want the set price. I also don't want to place things up for auction, I want to simply set a price. I know there's the "buy now" option to sort of provide what I'm looking for, I simply want all auctioning off. Maybe have a completely separate place for auctioning (perhaps, an auction house? :P) for rare items that don't necessarily have a set value. I also like the idea of having actual shops.

I concur that typing in combat in this game is more awkward than in most others, but what's that have to do with WoW?  WoW is plenty friendly to people who want to type.  You sit there auto-attacking for a few seconds while you type what you want to say, and it doesn't matter that all you were doing during that time was auto-attacking.  What makes typing here harder is that you can't auto-attack and you need to dodge.

WoW is kind of my go to MMO for when I feel like using one as a bad example or slamming it. It doesn't really have anything to do with it, but I really don't like WoW at all, and feel that it's an MMO that has really screwed up the market and created a bad image, structure and style for all MMO's.

I'm not sure what you mean about tanks.  This game doesn't have tanks in the traditional MMORPG sense of the word.  If you want to argue that one class is a tank, you kind of have to argue that all classes are tanks.  That makes no sense.  There may or may not be sufficient distinction between the classes, but that's not a matter of tanking.

I'm just using that as an example. However, what worries me now is that if all classes are unique, but they all do the same thing, that to me means there isn't any class specialization, which kind of sucks. I liked EQ where I was a healer. THE END. No DPS, no tanking, just healing. Obviously MMO's have really moved away from that which I can accept, but I still like some level of specialization, which I worry this game doesn't have. Some have said there's a lot of specialization though, so I'll just have to wait and see once I play more :)

Originally posted by Clobster

Originally posted by Quizzical

I don't see what's so bad about an auction house.  Making it easy for buyers and sellers to find each other is a good thing.  Unless a game economy is going to be based on shipping goods back and forth, an auction house is the best way I've seen to do that.

I just don't like auction houses, or auctions in general. When I go to buy something, I don't want to bid on anything, I simply want the set price. I also don't want to place things up for auction, I want to simply set a price. I know there's the "buy now" option to sort of provide what I'm looking for, I simply want all auctioning off. Maybe have a completely separate place for auctioning (perhaps, an auction house? :P) for rare items that don't necessarily have a set value. I also like the idea of having actual shops.

I concur that typing in combat in this game is more awkward than in most others, but what's that have to do with WoW?  WoW is plenty friendly to people who want to type.  You sit there auto-attacking for a few seconds while you type what you want to say, and it doesn't matter that all you were doing during that time was auto-attacking.  What makes typing here harder is that you can't auto-attack and you need to dodge.

WoW is kind of my go to MMO for when I feel like using one as a bad example or slamming it. It doesn't really have anything to do with it, but I really don't like WoW at all, and feel that it's an MMO that has really screwed up the market and created a bad image, structure and style for all MMO's.

I'm not sure what you mean about tanks.  This game doesn't have tanks in the traditional MMORPG sense of the word.  If you want to argue that one class is a tank, you kind of have to argue that all classes are tanks.  That makes no sense.  There may or may not be sufficient distinction between the classes, but that's not a matter of tanking.

I'm just using that as an example. However, what worries me now is that if all classes are unique, but they all do the same thing, that to me means there isn't any class specialization, which kind of sucks. I liked EQ where I was a healer. THE END. No DPS, no tanking, just healing. Obviously MMO's have really moved away from that which I can accept, but I still like some level of specialization, which I worry this game doesn't have. Some have said there's a lot of specialization though, so I'll just have to wait and see once I play more :)

 

It has shops... you don't have to use an AH but it's an easier way to trade and have an economy.  I don't know who wouldn't want an AH, it totally makes sense, especially with crafting and really any other aspect of money making.
 

You think this game has the WoW vibe and you don't like that. Yet you don't like how all the classes are different because you want tanks, healing, and DPS. You're majorly talking in circles.  Also they do have specialization especially as you get higher and get combo starters and so on and so forth. They each play a little different but no this game is very different from WoW.

I'm not trying to cause an argument I just think you are trying to contstruct your dislike of the game into something more coherent..... which I guess is good *shrug*  

 My biggest issue so far is the learning curve.  Everything feels really clunky and I don't think many of the systems are explained very clearly in-game.  Most of the info has come from players on forums.

I am sure it just takes a little more getting used to.

Originally posted by phc_doc

 My biggest issue so far is the learning curve.  Everything feels really clunky and I don't think many of the systems are explained very clearly in-game.  Most of the info has come from players on forums.

I am sure it just takes a little more getting used to.

yes, it does, I promise.

And that 'coming from players and forums' thing? Thats called community ;)

I promise that asking the questions now, building the blocks of ingame friendships, figuring the good people from the bad, returning the favour when newbies are asking you the same questions alter, will pay dividends in the upcoming levels for you. :)

        The good:

1. Pretty World...the graphics are top notch and it is a nice place to explore

2. the community....the players in general have been very friendly

the bad:

1. Quests.....Every quest I got was kill XX or go see XXXXXX.....Also the XP for finishing many of the quests was less than killing one of the mobs.

2. no loot.....Sorry but the chance that I may get a sigil somewhere down the road doesnt thrill me at all....I like to get upgrades as I play, even if they are very minimal.

3. Mobs.....While the world is very nice it felt like the mob choices wer every limited......Kinda like LoTRO where you are killing the same mob types at max level that you were at level 1.

4. Character selection......I dont like having only 2 races......The class selection is meh also......Not much incentive to make me want to ever create alts.

5. Tutorial......Boring, pointless, and feels liek a waste of time.....I would have rather just been thrown into the world......

6. Combat....While the combat is different it is also too clunky

             I dont think I'd even play TCoS for very long if it was F2P......I just felt no desire to log in after a week or so of exploring the world......Just not my cup of tea.

Sorry you didn't like it, it's certainlly not for everyone, but i find it rather relaxing and fun to explore.

Just my opinion on the whole race thing. I HATE games that add a bunch of races just for the fact of having a bunch of different races. It's messy, obviously not needed and really silly that people even care about different races in the first place. ESPECIALLY when it hardly, if at all, makes sense in the lore. Frankly I don't think Spellborn even needs that other non-human race. Especially games like vanguard which just went overboard and AoC which has three different races but they're all human...?  Anyway that's just my opinion, but I felt compelled to comment. I can't help but roll my eyes when people complain about the lack of races.. like it really matters in the overall gameplay. It doesn't mean a game is uncreative or unfinished, just that don't do the typical gimmicks. Okay I'm done now.

(Btw I'm not really commenting on the post of above, I'm just generally speaking.) 

Originally posted by natuxatu

Sorry you didn't like it, it's certainlly not for everyone, but i find it rather relaxing and fun to explore.

Just my opinion on the whole race thing. I HATE games that add a bunch of races just for the fact of having a bunch of different races. It's messy, obviously not needed and really silly that people even care about different races in the first place. ESPECIALLY when it hardly, if at all, makes sense in the lore. Frankly I don't think Spellborn even needs that other non-human race. Especially games like vanguard which just went overboard and AoC which has three different races but they're all human...?  Anyway that's just my opinion, but I felt compelled to comment. I can't help but roll my eyes when people complain about the lack of races.. like it really matters in the overall gameplay. It doesn't mean a game is uncreative or unfinished, just that don't do the typical gimmicks. Okay I'm done now.

(Btw I'm not really commenting on the post of above, I'm just generally speaking.) 

I feel exactly the same way. I dont see any reason at all to have a massive selection of different races when everyone is going to end up doing exactly the same quests and all the identical content that comes with it regardless of what race you are. If however the game world and its npcs/monsters actually responded differently to you based on your race then it might be a different matter. For example a tribe of goblins might attack most players but when they meet an Orc or Goblin player they are friendly to him and actually offer quests for him to do. An Elf player might be welcomed by fairies who dont tolerate the presence of other races......and so on.

Unfortunately the games which offer large racial selections such as Vanguard and EQ2 dont do this. They are totally shallow games that just dish out the same old stuff to everyone regardless of who they are. In those games the race you play is pure fluff and doesnt mean anything. You might look visually different and have a few stats moved around and maybe a little special ability but otherwise you are identical to everyone else. I hate the large choice of races in those games because like you said Natuxatu its messy and just looks completely ridiculous in the game. Trolls, ogres, elves, dwarves, goblins, catmen, humans, dark elves, gnomes and so on all rushing around together fighting all the monsters. Totally stupid. I always found it really sad in Vanguard when the players in chat would be talking about the different races and which ones were the best and which ones were the worst.......when actually they were all the bloody same once you see past the visual illusion created by the avatars. I remember one particularly retarded player saying "The dwarf sucks" and yet the only difference is 1 racial ability......otherwise it was identical to everyone else.

Oh and I totally agree that the Daevi are not really neccessary in Spellborn although of course its part of the games background so fair enough. I would be quite happy though if human was the only race to choose from. The humans get the best customisation options as well while the daevi seem to get virtually none in terms of body types.

The thing about Spellborn is that it's very "old school".

It has a steep learning curve...due to it's complexity and depth. Not as steep as say...Anarchy Online....but in many ways similar to those old classic MMOs that many of us cut our teeth on.

Races, classes, mobs, quests....designed to be functional, not flashy. To make sense in the context of the game, and not just be there for fluff.

A lot of the things that new-school players have come to expect and take for granted simply aren't there (much to the delight of some of us old-school players), such as "hearth stones", waypoints, and various sets of gear all helpfully framed with a color to indicate their value and degree of "uberness".

This is a no-nonsense game. I feel like I'm exploring and enjoying another world, instead of being at an amusement park with rides and prizes.

Not everything is simplified, and NOTHING is dumbed down. I need to do a bit of reading every few hours and ask questions to learn my way.

In short, if the game only had a deeper crafting system, it would be the game I've waited for. It's so close that I can forgive the few small faults it has, with faith that these issues will be addressed in the future.

the WoW crowd probably won't like it. It requires work, thought and effort, and as we've all heard them say, they don't want to do that...they want to log in and not have to think, and have everything handed to them. Whatever....they can go pollute some other game.

TCOS is the world for me.

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

The thing about Spellborn is that it's very "old school".

It has a steep learning curve...due to it's complexity and depth. Not as steep as say...Anarchy Online....but in many ways similar to those old classic MMOs that many of us cut our teeth on.

Races, classes, mobs, quests....designed to be functional, not flashy. To make sense in the context of the game, and not just be there for fluff.

A lot of the things that new-school players have come to expect and take for granted simply aren't there (much to the delight of some of us old-school players), such as "hearth stones", waypoints, and various sets of gear all helpfully framed with a color to indicate their value and degree of "uberness".

This is a no-nonsense game. I feel like I'm exploring and enjoying another world, instead of being at an amusement park with rides and prizes.

Not everything is simplified, and NOTHING is dumbed down. I need to do a bit of reading every few hours and ask questions to learn my way.

In short, if the game only had a deeper crafting system, it would be the game I've waited for. It's so close that I can forgive the few small faults it has, with faith that these issues will be addressed in the future.

the WoW crowd probably won't like it. It requires work, thought and effort, and as we've all heard them say, they don't want to do that...they want to log in and not have to think, and have everything handed to them. Whatever....they can go pollute some other game.

TCOS is the world for me.

Yeah thats kind of how I feel about this game too. It has stripped away all the bullshit that comes with other mmos. There is no questing for loot for example and I have seen a lot of players in the game finding this very hard to get their heads around. Many new players come into the starter area and immediately ask where they can get new armour and weapons from, clearly exhibiting the conditioning they have been subjected to from previous mmos.

The learning curve might be steep for some people but I personally havent found it too bad although I have had to ask a number of questions in game. Choosing and using the correct skills was a bit complex at first although I am getting used to it now. I think the fact that you can actually dodge enemy attacks (they can also do the same to you) is fantastic for an mmo as well. I am also noticing that the players and the monsters level isnt quite as important as it is in other games. For example in a live event recently I watched a Level 10 player stay alive almost right until the end of a fight which involved a bunch of level 20 - 30 players. This game really is more about player skill. Wave goodbye to the Battle of The Calculators which is what you get in other games.

However I do still get the themepark feel from this game. The quests are all very much the same old thing over and over again. They are dressed up with different stuff in the quest dialogue (which is mostly well written) but thats just a text file. Reading a story (no matter how well written it is) doesnt equate to actual gameplay. The actual things you do all boil down to "Go and kill x of these" or "Go and click on this and then run back to me". I havent encountered anything dynamic in the game where my actions make a difference to anything but then I havent left the early areas yet so maybe things change later. Somehow I kind of doubt it. Although this game is in my opinion much better than other mmos its still very much a static themepark ride. However because the world is so beautiful, atmospheric and impressive I find it quite easy to overlook this.

"Oh dear the boars nearby are acting strangely. Go and kill 10 of them so I can explore the area and figure out whats wrong with them" = Kill 10 boars.

"Ahh yes its those strange mushrooms. Go and get me a sample" = Go and click on a mushroom and walk back.

Same old themepark gameplay we have always seen......but its all pretty so ah well.

Having to actually READ the quest text is nice as well. The mini-map does indicate where relevant nearby npcs are so its not that much of a big deal but it is good that you have to actually pay attention to where you need to go. Again many players in the game exhibit the conditioning they have been subjected to with other mmos. So many people keep asking ridiculous questions in chat when all they have to do is read the damn quest dialogue and put in a little bit of effort to look around. A common question I keep seeing is "Where is the central tower?" to which everyone says "Look on your map. Its in the centre!". The mind seriously boggles at the stupidity or laziness of some people.

The crafting system is functional. To be honest I'm not really sure it needs to be any more complex than what it already is. I dont really need more hoops to jump through because thats all it will be......and more hoops doesnt = more fun in my opinion. I would rather just get on with playing the game. Crafting is just a support feature as it should be.

But yeah TCOS is the world for me too.....for now at least anyway.

Yeah I like the slower pace of the game.. .well maybe not slower, but relaxing I guess. Having to run everywhere.. I think mounts would be cool but I'd oppose any sort of teleporting thing. But I also agree that I think this game will appeal to more of the old school MMOers out there. It takes an older style but gives you a twist on combat, while still having strategy ect.

It's good and bad I suppose. Obviously I would like more players around, but at the same time I like the fact that anyone who gets anywhere in the game is a more skilled, patient, and slightly more mature than those in a lot of other games.  Those who don't think about combat, rage quitters, and people who goof around aren't going to get very far.

So that's kinda neat...

Spent much of today playing TCoS with my girlfriend. This is all based on the Free content, which I have nearly maxed out in one day.

The good:

Very pretty indeed. The world looks beautiful.

Ecology possibly the best I've seen in a MMO since Ryzom (which TCoS ressembles quite a lot).

Very well-written quests that appear to have been written by someone who's job is writing English not code.

The bad:

My god, but it's dull ! I actually like a slow pace, so that's not a problem, but this is so repetetive, so early. The quests are well written, which is great, but they are ALL either fedex or kill-10-rats with a nice wrapper, except for the ones that are "something-wicked-this-way-comes", and those won;t come to any conclusion unless you go P2P.

Combat manages to be simplistic and frustrating at the same time. Quite a trick to pull off. It took me most of the 7 free levels to get comfortable with the rolling skill-bar/skill deck system, and by the time I was roughly able to use it without fumbling I was at a point where all I really needed to do was left-click fast. I tried all sorts of variations, but nothign knocked mobs down faster or more safely than a good set of 3 attacks that cycle as fast as possible.

No gear, no drops. This is a gamebreaker for me. I understand what they are trying to achieve, but it's like ordering a ham sandwich, hold the ham. There's no RPG in your MMORPG.

But the really bad part, the part that means I will definitely not be subscribing: it's ALL combat and quests. Please tell me if there's something else later in the game, but I have played, read the handbook, read the website, and as far as i can see its PvE combat, PvP  combat and quests. Without dropped gear, housing, real crafting (the dropped items crafted by NPC thing is just another type of quest), pastimes like fishing, collects or deeds a la EQ2/LotRO etc etc there is no game in the game. Just too thin and really obviously so even after less than a day's play.

It's a shame, because it's a beautiful world and an interesting setting, but I can;t think of any MMO I have ever tried that became tedious so quickly. I generally expect to get at least a week out of any MMO on novelty value alone and this didn;t even come close.

If they round it out with a lot of non-combat content I would definitely try again. Otherwise, I'll just look at other people's screenshots.

 Edit: Just on the "Old School" thing, I'd be very willing to bet that the only reason TCoS seems old-school is that they haven't gotten around to putting in all the modern features yet. I would bet that in 6 months time, if the game is remotely successful, you have the full quest journal/map pointers/teleports etc etc that all post-WoW MMOs have. Anyway, as someone who's played MMOs for ten years, give or take, it really didn't seem all that old school to me, even so. More lke unfinished.

You haven't been to Ringfell. 3 skill spam isn't going to work there, that's for sure. Simplistic my booty. I'm finding my self retooling the skill deck quite often to come up with a better sequence and rotation. The second trial in the mountains alone saw me retool most of the day and as a result, I'm a better player. I dare you to 3 kill spam in that challenge! Anyone can just throw in whatever and spam the left mouse button. The challenge is to find your play style and improve upon it as time goes on and as you get more skills. I've even gone back and put in what I thought was crap, only to find out it had a purpose when used with other skills. There are complimenting skills.

I'm not seeing this thinking, tweaking, testing and improving as simplistic? But to each their own.

I think raising the starter cap is a good idea because a lot of people are getting the wrong idea about the game the way it is now. The starter zone is definitely not a good indication of how the game opens up later on.

All bad..

no good.

not more to say , and not worth more of my time....