This is Pt.2 of my review for Spellborn, you can find Pt.1 (L1-10) here;

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/229694/A-L10-review-Loving-the-game-.html

First a repeat of my position on this game, so people get where I am coming from- 

I unashamedly love this game. I continue to be a fanboy. That, in this case, dosent make me unobjective or uncritical. I don't feel threatened by other people not liking it, and I don't feel the need to convert those that have played it and don't 'get it'.

This, as the last one, is being written for those that are 'should I, shouldnt I?'.

This game remains the single best mmorpg experience that I have had since classic Everquest (99-02).

What Spellborn is;

A co-op soclal play themepark mmo that is suprisingly 'hardcore' in it's features for the modern genre, but one that can be played casually. Note that I personally do not agree with the common view that 'casual' has to mean 'easy'. .

My views;

GRAPHICS

Well, the art direction continues to impress me.

Since L10 I have moved into other zones, namely Hoggsridge, Quarterstone, and Ringfell, (plus various quest instances etc) and they have all maintained (at least) the high quality of environment and NPC design that impressed me from the start.

As I get higher there just seems more and more that just makes me stop and look.

From the Deadspell, to the Oracle, to the jungles of Hearth, this game is full of inspired visual hooks. It's character and 'soul' just capture you and pull you in.

If they gfx are not to someone's taste I get that, and thats fine, but how anyone can say they are 'bad' is beyond me. The new landmarks, shardships, and zones that I have now seen I think deserve an extra point added to this sections score.

9/10

QUESTS

In my last review, I said;

"To me, so far, this is the weakest part of SB."

And this is still true, to a point. It must be said though at this point that SB's weakest element is stronger, or at least equal, to most other mmorpgs out there right now imo.

Have the quests changed as I have levelled? Absolutely.

The House quest lines are excellent. I have followed House Rune and so far have had to deal with missions ranging from fresher pranks on House Maul, to lost legendary shardships, to the countering of the malicious plans of a renegade member, to teleporting midget critters. They have all been very well written, with a backstory that ranges from 'ok' to 'excellent'. They have really helped me form a bond with my faction, and i would be lying to say that I wasnt now more loyal to Rune then when I started.

They arnt all mindblowing- the runaround Qs from Quarterstone can get a little labourious as they force you to visit the same NPC 5 times for updates for instance, but with ambushing mobs, the odd novely fun side trek, and often humourous dialogue they are definitely bearable, and often very enjoyable. they are also over pretty quickly ;)

Overall, the quests are getting better the deeper into the game I get. As I have levelled they have gotten more involving and more lore based, making me want to complete them to find out what happens next rather then how much Fame they give.

On a slight down side, I think this game needs more group based content through these levels.

While Hearth pretty much demands a group, which is a great thing, a L12-16ish group dungeon or similar would be great to help build teamwork and bond guilds. It would offer the group player an alternative to the solo runarounds of QS. So far, I feel it would be great if there was more 'epic' feeling guild content around this level. I'm not asking for raids, God forbid, but I do want to spend time with my guildies.

7/10

SCORE

The music is still beautiful. atmospheric, understated, but epic. Ambient scoring at it's best.

Hearth is particulary impressive. Love the layered synths and haunting vocal harmoics. Excellent.

9/10

CHARACTER CREATION/ DEVELOPMENT

While I was very much impressed with the intitial character customisation options, I would have like to see more clothing and weapon choices to have opened up to me by now. The NPC vendors dont sell a massive range though, and the gear drops/ rewards arnt common enough to allow much choice in your appearence.

I have a feeling that this is just down to there being no player trading going on right now, due to us on Acclaim's servers STILL having no patch and therefore no auction House, and therefor no economy.

With this in mind, I will hold the score at the same until I see the effects of the new AH on available clothing/ armour/ weapons/ shields as players start to trade recipies/ mats.

For the future, I would also like to see a tattooist and barbar NPC ingame to allow us to purchase new brightly coloured tats, and change hair/ facial hair. I won't ask for cloaks and robes, because I know they are already on the Dev radar.

8/10

COMMUNITY

The P2P community is still overall excellent. the more people I meet the more I am impressed. While the server has it's vocal whingers (you know who your are!), the vast bulk of people are what I would call 'cynical optimists'.

The less you have to visit Hawksmouth, the more of a culture shock it becomes when you return though lol.

What this game does need though, imo, are Shard wide chat channels. Drop the zone wide one please and let us talk to each other wherever we are on a shard? (be sure, if you do this, though to plz restrict the freemium players to their own trial channel that we can turn off if we want ;) ).

The game also needs more robust community management tools, from deeper guild options and monitors to a LFG mechanic with appropiate filters. Integrated chat would also be excellent. It is early days yet though, so i am willing to wait for this kind of thing.

8/10

BUGS, STABILITY AND PERFORMANCE

We still havent had our patch or the 2 hotfixes, so performance is still as it was, which is really dissapointing tbh.

I am getting very fed up with the crashes, and I want a new loot window now.

They are called HOTFIXES for a frikin reason Acclaim. They are needed, and now. Pull your thumb out and get a move on.

5/10

LORE

If anything, the lore of this game is getting more and compelling and immersive as I find out about it through quests.

I purposefully don't read spoilers online, and the world being unveiled to me as I play is excellent.

I fully recomend others to play this way as well. SB is very much about the journey and not the destination. Unlike other games, which seem to treat levels 1-49 as just time fillers before the real game starts at L50 (*cough* AoC *cough*), Spellborn is fun all the way through, and it's the way the lore has been handled that achieves this.

10/10

GAMEPLAY

The gameplay remains outstanding, with new skills being gained at a decent rate and the learning curve kept steady.

Grouping feels natural in this game, though definitely sometimes on the chaotic out of control side. SB is thinking man's action game, but it isnt, past setting up your skill bar, an overly tactical one. At least not in the same sense EQ2 or whatever is.

Overall, I am having more fun with my character the higher he goes and am continously tweaking and refining my playstyle with him. Now and again I will hear a piece of advice that will revolutionise what I was doing, and thats great.

At L20 it seems SB still has things to teach me.

9/10

CRAFTING

This remains the same as before- accessable, meaningful, non-grind.

Though it has to be said- ACCLAIM PATCH OUR AH NOW OK?

8/10

DIFFICULTY

Well, the difficulty level in QS was about the same as Hawksmouth had been, with the odd tricky objective in and no PeP being given.

And then we hit Hearth.

One word; brutal.

and just wait 'till they turn the mobs up next patch ;)

SB remains pleasingly challenging.

10/10

OVERALL

SB continues to please me.

It is proving to be an engaging and involving game that I am still enthusiastic over playing. It has it's problems (mob balancing, bugs, and broken quests and character abilities all need looking at sooner rather then later), but I find myself finding this game worthy enough to ride out the rough early days and looking towards finer weather.

One major problem for me though is, and I deliberatly left this out in the first review because I feel a review should be about the game rather then the publisher, how Acclaim are handling the communication and the managing of their customers expections. They seem to be appraoching this whole product with the philosophy that the customer base can just be ignored until they have 'something to say', be that days weeks or months. They don't seem to get that status updates once a week, maybe even more often in 'beta' when we are waiting for CC/ patch/ launch info, would go a long way to making us a lot LOT happier. If there is a delay, tell us WHY.

People know that this is an excellent game, but they also know that Acclaim are not the only provider, and that SiL get the money either way. They need to stop acting like they have a monopoly on the game. I won't go on about this anymore, but It has gotten to the point now where it is effecting my game, and that is unacceptable.

The game though, which is what this review is about after all, maintains it's orignal score. I would give it higher, because the game HAS gotten more and more fun, but I have a feeling it still more to give so i wanna leave some room ;)

9/10

As ever, if you make it this far, thank you. If you need to ask questions or need a guild on the Acclaim PvE server, give me a shout in game. I play as Iceberg and Vesavius with the guild Radiance :)
 

V,

Nice write-up as usual. I really enjoyed your comments and it really makes me want to continue to level (I am slow - just level 5).

I have a couple of questions if bear with me:

1. I noticed some skills are like openers, builders and finishers if that makes sense. I checked my skills and it seems like I do not get any of these until level 10 or so? I am level 5 Adept and it seems like all of my skills basically just do the same thing - damage, buffs, etc.... Am I right in this assumption or am I missing something?

2. Can you explain gear to me? I still have the stuff from the starter characterization. I  just want to make sure I am not missing something. If you have a link that provides more info, that would be great.

3. Setting up your skill wheel seems daunting to me. Is there a certain order or strategy to it or does it more depend on your playstyle?

4. Do you know of a good website that really explains the differences between the classes? I would like to really look at the differences (in terms of play style) between Adept and the other two (sorry drawing a blank)

---

Sorry for the questions but I do LOVE the game but I am feeling a little overwhelmed with the many differences it seems to have from regular/more mainstream MMOs.

I do agree with you though - it is surprisingly hardcore/old school in ways  but without being frustrating. My biggest gripe is the spawn rate for mobs in Hawksmouth but I heard it gets better. Again, thanks for the update and continued review. if I may, I have a recommendation. Maybe you or someone else who is more experienced might would like to start a thread here (and maybe it might get stickied) about "What I Wish I Knew About Spellborn" - include just tips that many people miss (like how if you click the "button" next to each UI box, you can hide that screem and really have an open screen - aLa Dead Space). I think its an awesome touch. :)

Originally posted by templarga

 

1. I noticed some skills are like openers, builders and finishers if that makes sense. I checked my skills and it seems like I do not get any of these until level 10 or so? I am level 5 Adept and it seems like all of my skills basically just do the same thing - damage, buffs, etc.... Am I right in this assumption or am I missing something?

No, you are right.

I am struggling to remember when i got my opener right now... think it was 12 or so. I think the finishers come around 16.

Pay attention to what your skills are doing as you level up though... Even in the low levels a lot of them have a relationship, some give vigor (for example) and some take. You need to sequence them so you can minimise being gimped by bad status.

2. Can you explain gear to me? I still have the stuff from the starter characterization. I  just want to make sure I am not missing something. If you have a link that provides more info, that would be great.

Visible gear, to start with the basics, is just cosmetic.

Sigils, non visible gear that is slotted into your character, are what has the stats. These can be moved around your visible gear as you wish, for a small price at the forge. You will get these as drops and quest rewards.

Your weapons, helm, and chest piece, have sigil slots. All of the slotted items have the same capacity for sigils (so far as i have seen) and you can move your sigils between them freely via the forge, so you are free to choose the look that appeals.

If you want no helm or chestpiece you can buy cheap invisible items (Emporers new... items) that have the same sigil slots as gear.

As you adventure you will gain broken items (that can be remade at the forge for a mat/coin cost) and unbroken items via drops and quests.

The gain rate for these seems to get a lot higher once you hit Quarterstone.

3. Setting up your skill wheel seems daunting to me. Is there a certain order or strategy to it or does it more depend on your playstyle?

Yeah, this takes a little reading and experimentation to get the hang of.

There is a definite synergy to the skills, as I explained above.

My main advice would be to pay close attention to your status bars and watch what each skill is doing to them. They really are very important.

4. Do you know of a good website that really explains the differences between the classes? I would like to really look at the differences (in terms of play style) between Adept and the other two (sorry drawing a blank)

Not sure of a decent website with this info, but briefly, based on what I have seen;

Bloodwarrior- damage sponge tank.

Wrathguard- group damage dealer

Adept- solo halfway house.

Saying this though, all warrior types are more then able to hold the front ranks from what I have seen and all are good in a group.

 

Thanks for your kind words. I hope the above helps as little :)

Good write up. Thanks.

Sorry for the questions but I do LOVE the game but I am feeling a little overwhelmed with the many differences it seems to have from regular/more mainstream MMOs.

Ahh, I've been waiting for that feeling for a LONG time now, the overwhelmed one. Used to get that every time I logged on a new MMO back in the day, now it's hard to find.

To possibly help break down all the classes a little bit to add onto what Vesavius said, you could try checking out http://spellborn.wikia.com/wiki/Understanding_the_Classes for a pretty good class breakdown and introduction.

I'm still learning about the best setup for my skill deck, and I doubt I'm close to having it. What I do know is, the combos (openers/closers) really start to be important in combat; you'll want to execute them and get the biggest combo you can. I don't know how many dots there are, but when you start a combo, below your Skill Deck will be a like 8 dots for your combos.  Opener, and I'm guessing closers, take up one of those dots each, but you can use normal skills (anything not an opener or closer, most of your skills in general) to fill up the remaining dots, resulting in a bigger effect to your combo.

The combat really starts to shine 10+, you have a lot to be excited about :)

 Very nice review

Thanks V. That did help a lot and answered a lot of the questions that I had. The sigils thing still confuses me some but I will figure it out as I get deeper into the game. It is nice to have an MMO that doesn't make everything an open book and hold you by the hand. Its okay in other games, but it is nice to have an alternative for a change.

EDIT: Synthetick, that link you posted is wonderful! That really talks a lot about how the classes play versus background info or skills. That is a really awesome link, I recommend anyone thinking of playing, take a look at it. Thanks!

Ves... Great job as usual bro!

To answer the skilldeck question. To make is simple for myself, this is what I've done so far up to level 12.

At level 12 I have 3 WHEELS with 4 SLOTS each.

Wheel 1 i rotate 3 different skills

Wheel 2 I have my backstab skill in ALL 3 slots

Wheel 3 I have my bow/range shooting skill in ALL 3 slots

Wheel 4 I have my DEBUFF skill in ALL 3 slots

I rotate the wheel using the mouse wheel as I fight. So if i want to backstab during the fight I circle around to the back of the mob, rotate my wheen to position #2, execute the backstab then... rotate the wheel back to the #1 wheel position and continue on. Same for the DEBUFF and RANGE attacks.

So far this has worked well. It will probably get more complex later but it's a good start.

Hope that helped.

Great write up V, thanks for putting it together.

Only at level 8 now but I'm absolutely loving the game and have talked a few RL friends into at least trying it (I was waiting until I heard the first "I'm getting bored..." rant about WoW from them.)

Only bummer is I've just had a new tattoo on my "mouse wrist" so I can't play for a few days, I should have planned that better!

Originally posted by Variant13

Great write up V, thanks for putting it together.

Only at level 8 now but I'm absolutely loving the game and have talked a few RL friends into at least trying it (I was waiting until I heard the first "I'm getting bored..." rant about WoW from them.)

Only bummer is I've just had a new tattoo on my "mouse wrist" so I can't play for a few days, I should have planned that better!

lol that sucks, whats the tat? Hope it's worth it ;)

Originally posted by COORS

Ves... Great job as usual bro!

To answer the skilldeck question. To make is simple for myself, this is what I've done so far up to level 12.

At level 12 I have 3 WHEELS with 4 SLOTS each.

Wheel 1 i rotate 3 different skills

Wheel 2 I have my backstab skill in ALL 3 slots

Wheel 3 I have my bow/range shooting skill in ALL 3 slots

Wheel 4 I have my DEBUFF skill in ALL 3 slots

I rotate the wheel using the mouse wheel as I fight. So if i want to backstab during the fight I circle around to the back of the mob, rotate my wheen to position #2, execute the backstab then... rotate the wheel back to the #1 wheel position and continue on. Same for the DEBUFF and RANGE attacks.

So far this has worked well. It will probably get more complex later but it's a good start.

Hope that helped.

 

Thanks, glad these things arnt falling on deaf ears :)

I follow, at this time, a similat train of thought with my set up as well... I have all the first column ranged (to pull or just distance strike), all the second buffs (to prepare for the mobs inc if I am pulling), third heavy attacks, and forth fast hitters.

Not sure if this is the best, but it's working so far... I am definitely learnin as I go though :)

Great post.

I'm absolutely loving Spellborn at the moment too. I'm a bit of an MMO newbie but I love how the combat system is based on the player's skill on dodging and effectively using their skill deck, as opposed to level and luck.

Can't help but feeling like you over-rated the crafting system though. It seems pretty non existant. But then again I'm only lvl 14, and yet to craft my first item.

Originally posted by II_Donell_II

Great post.

 

I'm absolutely loving Spellborn at the moment too. I'm a bit of an MMO newbie but I love how the combat system is based on the player's skill on dodging and effectively using their skill deck, as opposed to level and luck.

 

Can't help but feeling like you over-rated the crafting system though. It seems pretty non existant. But then again I'm only lvl 14, and yet to craft my first item.

Your view on the craft score is very valid, I get why you question it.

You have to understand where I am comning from with it though to understand my marking, though I stress the whole review is purely subjective. :)

I marked it high not because it was an amazingly in depth simulation of basket weaving that requirs hours of levelling and reams of knowledge to make the best player gear in the game, but precisly because it wasnt.

I agree the SB's has more of a 'collection' system then Vanguards full on crafting, for example.

I have played games like EQ2, and I have been a crafter in those games, and I have enjoyed them for it. Right now though I am in very a dynamic adventure state of mind and I want a system that rewards my play time with a fast, lore based, meaningful mechanic that allows me to make useful gear that my character can use without me having to stare at a forge for weeks on end.

You throw in sigils on top of that (which basically allow you to make your own magic items tailored to your needs, looking like you choose), and I feel a high mark for versitilty and personal satisfaction is warranted.

I have recently stopped playing Darkfall, and I have to say any game that forces me to macro for hours and hours and hours to harvest any meaningful amount of mats to allow me to level my craft skill to the 'good stuff' in it turns me off at this time. I have enough of that.

Like i say though, this is a subjective review, so i understand not others seeing it the same way :)

 Sorry Vesavius but I really have to ask this,but also this could be for player's maybe on the fence about this title also.

Ves said in this review "The game though, which is what this review is about after all, maintains it's orignal score. I would give it higher, because the game HAS gotten more and more fun, but I have a feeling it still more to give so i wanna leave some room ;)"

but you asked me this question a few months ago when I was trying to explain about the fun factor..

"I have only asked the other guys what is gonna motivate them in the long term if not loot, beyond the vague word 'fun'.

I am asking straight questions, but it seems noone wants to give me a straight answer :P

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/210692/page/4

I have to ask you now mate,what motivate's you to play now you have been able to play the game...other than "fun" :P

Originally posted by daylight01

 

I have to ask you now mate,what motivate's you to play now you have been able to play the game...other than "fun" :P

Is any other reason really necessary? Fun is a totally subjective term. There is no absolute value to fun. Fun is what you make of it. I find WOW and TCOS fun. I find Mario Kart fun. Heck, I find doing linear regression fun and I promise many others don't. :)

My point is that, even if I or V defined fun it would be our interpretation. For example, in Spellborn, I find the not knowing where to go/having to read quests carefully/not having a guide to the world "fun"; others might find it tedious. I am just saying that fun is vague and very hard to qualify (or quantify) especially when discussing MMO's.

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by daylight01

 

I have to ask you now mate,what motivate's you to play now you have been able to play the game...other than "fun" :P

Is any other reason really necessary? Fun is a totally subjective term. There is no absolute value to fun. Fun is what you make of it. I find WOW and TCOS fun. I find Mario Kart fun. Heck, I find doing linear regression fun and I promise many others don't. :)

My point is that, even if I or V defined fun it would be our interpretation. For example, in Spellborn, I find the not knowing where to go/having to read quests carefully/not having a guide to the world "fun"; others might find it tedious. I am just saying that fun is vague and very hard to qualify (or quantify) especially when discussing MMO's.

If you had read the full post you would have seen the subject was about loot in mmo's,I was trying to say loot was not the reason player's would play TCoS and Ves could not imagine why player's would play a game without some sort of "goal"such as loot,I was mearly pointing out that now ppl can play the game they can see that you can indeed have "FUN" without the need for loot.

Also if you read the post myself and other's had said you will play this game just for pure fun,no-one said you will it find it fun because*insert usless thing here* we basically said you will find it fun.

Originally posted by daylight01

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by daylight01

 

I have to ask you now mate,what motivate's you to play now you have been able to play the game...other than "fun" :P

Is any other reason really necessary? Fun is a totally subjective term. There is no absolute value to fun. Fun is what you make of it. I find WOW and TCOS fun. I find Mario Kart fun. Heck, I find doing linear regression fun and I promise many others don't. :)

My point is that, even if I or V defined fun it would be our interpretation. For example, in Spellborn, I find the not knowing where to go/having to read quests carefully/not having a guide to the world "fun"; others might find it tedious. I am just saying that fun is vague and very hard to qualify (or quantify) especially when discussing MMO's.

If you had read the full post you would have seen the subject was about loot in mmo's,I was trying to say loot was not the reason player's would play TCoS and Ves could not imagine why player's would play a game without some sort of "goal"such as loot,I was mearly pointing out that now ppl can play the game they can see that you can indeed have "FUN" without the need for loot.

Also if you read the post myself and other's had said you will play this game just for pure fun,no-one said you will it find it fun because*insert usless thing here* we basically said you will find it fun.

Sorry I misunderstood someone's post on the Internet. I guess I am the only one who has ever done that and for that I am eternally apologetic.

I'm enjoying the game, so far.

I have to ask, though, does the huge imbalance between casters and melee ever end? I just don't see any point in playing a melee class. Mages are far more powerful. Should I just reroll as a caster?

 You dont need to be sarcastic or even say sorry,It is a forum and should be used as a forum,though maybe a simple "ohh yeah never seen that"would have been good enough,never mind.

Originally posted by daylight01

 Sorry Vesavius but I really have to ask this,but also this could be for player's maybe on the fence about this title also.

Ves said in this review "The game though, which is what this review is about after all, maintains it's orignal score. I would give it higher, because the game HAS gotten more and more fun, but I have a feeling it still more to give so i wanna leave some room ;)"

 

but you asked me this question a few months ago when I was trying to explain about the fun factor..

"I have only asked the other guys what is gonna motivate them in the long term if not loot, beyond the vague word 'fun'.

I am asking straight questions, but it seems noone wants to give me a straight answer :P

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/210692/page/4

 

I have to ask you now mate,what motivate's you to play now you have been able to play the game...other than "fun" :P

I have no idea what is driving you to raid archives in this way to try and catch me out, lol, but now the question has been asked, it's a fair one and I will try and explain.

My assertion that the word 'fun' is subjective and not a good enough descriptive term in itself, if used unvalidated or undefined, stands.

When you guys just said, when I asked why people would carry on playing with 'no gear' back then in SB (believe it or not, some of the fanbase was then claiming SB had 'no gear' in it...), they would do so for 'fun', you didnt define what you meant by 'fun'. You repeatedly refused to define what would keep people playing... What the primary motivators and retainers would be for a 'lootless' game. Thats what I was questioning.

I mean, look at that thread... You suggested playing chess in game and chatting would serve as motivators and retainers ;)

I feel that I have, in this and the prior review, clarified clearly and at length what I find 'fun' in this game. In short, I validated my use of the word as a description.

The other questions I asked of the game in that thread, such as it being a 'solo ez mode quest grinder' were what I was saying I was wrong about in Review 1, right at the start.

Well.. it is a quest grinder, for sure, but it 'aint all that solo, and it 'aint all that easy ;)

Are you playing yet Daylight btw?

*edit*

Ahh I have just taken the time to reread that old thread properly, and to be honest I am suprised how right I was about how this game would be in so many ways heh.

I am just glad I was right about loot being a primary motivator and retainer in SB, but also that I was wrong about it being a solo ez mode game, because both of these factors have helped build it into a compelling and social game.

To get a more complete picture of that past debate, and how people behaved within it, I would suggest that those remotely interested in this long dead conversation go to  http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/210692/page/3 and start reading from the start preferbly, and post #23 at the least. The rest of you can just get on with more interesting stuff ;)