i dont know how the new system work but i hated the system old

Case in point:

I just logged in and did my daily routine in the WH sytem with my tower.

Scanned all 19 signatures in the system down. 2 WH leading to other W-space, 3 ladars, and the rest grav sites (which by the way are very nice.. too bad I'll never be able to get my gear in to enjoy them apparently).

It was not hard.  I scanned them all down with an alt that had no training for exploration pre-apocrypha.. including the 4 sigs that started out under 1%.

But I swear to god I would have had more fun organinzing my sock drawer.  How in gods name to people find this system fun?  Anyone could do this... there's no art to it whatsoever.

couple more days of this and I'm gonna pod my guy and offline the tower and mods- I'll post the system and moons where I'm leaving the stuff in case somoeone else wants to play "brain dead online" aka "romper room exploration" aka "something that will make you want to clean your house to relieve boredom" aka "the new probing system in eve"

bleh.

Originally posted by Enkindu

Case in point:

I just logged in and did my daily routine in the WH sytem with my tower.

Scanned all 19 signatures in the system down. 2 WH leading to other W-space, 3 ladars, and the rest grav sites (which by the way are very nice.. too bad I'll never be able to get my gear in to enjoy them apparently).

It was not hard.  I scanned them all down with an alt that had no training for exploration pre-apocrypha.. including the 4 sigs that started out under 1%.

But I swear to god I would have had more fun organinzing my sock drawer.  How in gods name to people find this system fun?  Anyone could do this... there's no art to it whatsoever.

couple more days of this and I'm gonna pod my guy and offline the tower and mods- I'll post the system and moons where I'm leaving the stuff in case somoeone else wants to play "brain dead online" aka "romper room exploration" aka "something that will make you want to clean your house to relieve boredom" aka "the new probing system in eve"

bleh.

who said the scanning part was the fun part, the fun part is actually running the sites once you find them. To me the new system just makes it far quicker and less mind-numbingly tedious. It's functional and it's far more interactive and if they ever put in a way to filter out certain signatures once you identify them it will be just about perfect. There was no more art to the old system than there is the new one, it's just a difference in functionality. The only moderately difficult part of the old system was making full coverage bookmarks and that really wasn't that difficult at all. Beyond that it was a question of 'how much do I want to spend' on implants/sisters gear, rigs in order minimize the tedium.

Oh, and as an added comment I'm almost positive that they boosted exploration content in lowsec, either that or providence just REALLY sucks for sites, lucky to find 1 sig in 10 systems and no anomalies to be found anywhere....or maybe I'm just not getting up early enough to run them right after downtime.

Minsc, you don't get it man.

The best thing about the old probing system was that it made the profession unappealing to restless kiddies with short attention spans.  There are already enough options in the eve for those folks (like shooting everything they see).

It makes sense that the moronically simple repetetive actions of the new system would appeal to the same crowd.

ooh.. shiny!

Originally posted by Enkindu

Minsc, you don't get it man.

The best thing about the old probing system was that it made the profession unappealing to restless kiddies with short attention spans.  There are already enough options in the eve for those folks (like shooting everything they see).

It makes sense that the moronically simple repetetive actions of the new system would appeal to the same crowd.

ooh.. shiny!

Sorry man but I cannot agree with this opinion. Something that keeps a new player from wanting to do it game is not a good thing in any way. Like I said in a previous post what CCP did to probing ended up opening it up as a very good no make that an AWESOME career choice for the solo and casual game play types which is something Eve was lacking severly in. This makes it so new players can actually do something fun and productive in a non combat way.

It's just time to move on to something else in the game or take break til Ambulation comes out and then you can open a shop or bar.

I think you make some very good points Enkindu and I agree with many of them. At the end of the day, though, I think it say's more about how good the old system was than it does about the new system being bad. I'm just not seeing the big difference, one all bad the other all good. It seems to me both systems have good and bad points. As for me, I like the fact that I don't have travel through countless systems only to find there are no sites, or that they have already been run. I also like the sleeper drones. I know if I'm engaged with a sleeper BS and someone else finds me, I'm probably dead.

Originally posted by Enkindu

Minsc, you don't get it man.

The best thing about the old probing system was that it made the profession unappealing to restless kiddies with short attention spans.  There are already enough options in the eve for those folks (like shooting everything they see).

It makes sense that the moronically simple repetetive actions of the new system would appeal to the same crowd.

ooh.. shiny!

So.....what.......you're too smart for the new system, and everyone else was too dumb for the old one?

You were on to something.....right up untill you posted that reply. Shot your credibility down.

Originally posted by qazyman

I've been having a problem since the last patch. I get a 100% signal but can't warp to 0. The signal just shows up as a red sphere in each of the probes, even with 4 probe triagulation.

As for the new system itself, I know what you mean. I think it comes down to finding a way to make an educated guess about what to scan. Scanning down every signal in multiple wormholes is to much. Of course this is real problem when you make a decision and can't scan the site down to a warp to 0 signal :(

You're doing it wrong. The red sphere indicates that you've gotten a hit with just a single probe, and though you can get a 100% hit with a single probe, you need 100% with 4 probes to warp to it.

When you get those red spheres, that indicates that, somewhere in that sphere is a site. You then want to try to overlap 2 or more probes (without them being in scan range of eachother like the old system) to cover the entirety of the red sphere.

When you get a hit with 2 probes, the red sphere turns into a red circle. The signature you're scanning falls somewhere on that circle. That's when you bring in a 3rd probe so that 3 probes cover most of the red circle.

Eventually, when you have 3 probes overlapping on the signature, the circle will disapear and you'll get multiple dots. Each of these dots is a place the signature can be. Now you move in with a 4th probe and try to cover all of the dots with your four probes.

When you do this right you'll get a single dot. These dots a color coded. It needs to be green (100% on all the probes) before you can warp to it. Red means the signal is weak, yellow means you've almost got it, green means warpable.

And keep in mind, the smaller the probe radius the stronger its scan strength. So when scanning a site, with each succesive hit you should be making your probes smaller.

That's the short, I just woke up version of the new probe system.

And to the OP. I agree, I actually find the new system tidious as well.

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by Enkindu

Minsc, you don't get it man.

The best thing about the old probing system was that it made the profession unappealing to restless kiddies with short attention spans.  There are already enough options in the eve for those folks (like shooting everything they see).

It makes sense that the moronically simple repetetive actions of the new system would appeal to the same crowd.

ooh.. shiny!

 

So.....what.......you're too smart for the new system, and everyone else was too dumb for the old one?

You were on to something.....right up untill you posted that reply. Shot your credibility down.

Agreed.  That was an obnoxious post on my part.  I let the other guy annoy me and posted stupid crap as a result, sorry for that.

Plenty of valid opinions here, at the end of the day I just feel like the changes really punish people that trained to adapt to the old system, and that the new system is nothing more than busywork.

I think I'd feel this way if they removed the autopilot and forced you manually jump to every gate even if you were shuttling accross hisec.  Adding menial tasks in an attempt to make the game more "interactive" only makes the game a lot less enjoyable in my opinion.

In my defense with regard to the above statement, I never said that the old system was more complicated than the new.. just that it required SOMETHING.. even if it was nothing more than patience.

Also, I've always thought that one of the charms of eve was the fact that there WERE some things that you had to work for. The old system was frustrating for me too when I started, but I commited the right resources to being more successful and it paid off. 

I'll leave this poor dead horse alone now.  In the constant battle to balance eve we all get shafted at some point.. I remember the missle nerf, speed nerf, carrier nerf, etc... but at the end of the day it's all due to CCP really caring about keeping the game balanced.

As pissed as I may be about exploration getting nerfed (DAMMIT) I'll adapt like everyone does.. there's still no game that even comes close to eve. I doubt there will be for many years. (still a fanboy. see??)

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by Enkindu

Minsc, you don't get it man.

The best thing about the old probing system was that it made the profession unappealing to restless kiddies with short attention spans.  There are already enough options in the eve for those folks (like shooting everything they see).

It makes sense that the moronically simple repetetive actions of the new system would appeal to the same crowd.

ooh.. shiny!

 

So.....what.......you're too smart for the new system, and everyone else was too dumb for the old one?

You were on to something.....right up untill you posted that reply. Shot your credibility down.

 

Agreed.  That was an obnoxious post on my part.  I let the other guy annoy me and posted stupid crap as a result, sorry for that.

Plenty of valid opinions here, at the end of the day I just feel like the changes really punish people that trained to adapt to the old system, and that the new system is nothing more than busywork.

I think I'd feel this way if they removed the autopilot and forced you manually jump to every gate even if you were shuttling accross hisec.  Adding menial tasks in an attempt to make the game more "interactive" only makes the game a lot less enjoyable in my opinion.

 

In my defense with regard to the above statement, I never said that the old system was more complicated than the new.. just that it required SOMETHING.. even if it was nothing more than patience.

Also, I've always thought that one of the charms of eve was the fact that there WERE some things that you had to work for. The old system was frustrating for me too when I started, but I commited the right resources to being more successful and it paid off. 

I'll leave this poor dead horse alone now.  In the constant battle to balance eve we all get shafted at some point.. I remember the missle nerf, speed nerf, carrier nerf, etc... but at the end of the day it's all due to CCP really caring about keeping the game balanced.

As pissed as I may be about exploration getting nerfed (DAMMIT) I'll adapt like everyone does.. there's still no game that even comes close to eve. I doubt there will be for many years. (still a fanboy. see??)

Well, I guess (after having tried exploring today), it did become a tad simple. I don't mind it though, but Ive never been a real explorer anyway. On the other hand, "Exploring" has always been a profession due to its tedious nature (Or rather, needing to invest time and a lot of patience). I'd hate for it to become standard simply because the act of finding a site is way too easy.

Who knows, maybe they'lle tweak it further, find the thin line inbetween?

Most of you aren't understanding the OP's point.

What he's saying is that the beauty of exploration is finiding the site, not getting whats in it. People who were good with the old system knew they were having access to stuff no one else did, making them more valuable, and the prof more of an original fit.

Now there is no skill exept exercising basic geometry. What once was restricted to dedicated people is now available to the masses.

Tbh i think the new system was a good choice. They need people to go to W-space. Making exploration easier serves that goal. I still think they have to introduce some kind of thrill to exploration, maybe a new type of site that would take more brains to find than following a cooking recipe.

I understand his point and even agree to a small extent but overall and on a fundamental level I just respectfully disagree.

The OPs analogy about fishing was spot on, the problem is I hate fishing (or poking around in the dark trying to find something that I don't even know is there) I'd much rather have the tools to help me find what I want reliably and faster as I got better with the tools and this is what the new system allows. I also disagree with the idea that the system should have an inherant noob deterrent such as boredom or great difficulty without the high level skills and modules like covert ops 5 and a sisters scan probe launcher. Having that high of an entry barrier for a profitable, solo, casual and new player friendly profession is just silly.

I do agree that the new system is a lot of clicking and dragging and feels cumbersome but so was the old system with flying back and forth between bookmarks trying to get just the right spot bookmarked so you drop your next probe.

New system is better, it just needs some tweaks to the interface to make it easier to work the probes.

Originally posted by Lordmonkus

 ...the problem is I hate fishing (or poking around in the dark trying to find something that I don't even know is there) ....

I respect your position as well Lord, and thanks to all for keeping this discussion constructive. 

I have to ask though, don't you think "poking around in the dark trying to find something I don't even know is there" might even be considered a good definition for exploration?

There aren't many real unknowns in eve.. I guess I just find uncertainty interesting.

Edit: also, I don't think there should be "deterrents" for noobs as such, but isn't it a lot more fun to have a grand reward to work toward as opposed to having things more easily handed to you? Eve is unique among games because there are goals that really do take years to achieve.. that's a big part of why I play.

I do see the point that wormholes are such a huge new part of the game that it would have been truly unfair to make it impossible for new players to access them... but it also shortchanges the new player when you take away those lofty dreams that WILL take years of planning and dedication to achieve.

Personally, I'd like to see scanning for wormholes made seperate from scanning for the other signature types.. with different equipment, perhaps even a different skillset.  Maybe that way we could provide access to all and save exploration as a viable profession.

I do agree with poking around in the dark for the unknown bit.

Hmm, quick brainfart here. Maybe they should bring the old probe system back in addition to the new system but instead of that system being used to find the things in game today they are used to find deeper more elusive and valuable sites. Something they could add in later with new npcs with sleeper ai or better.

I don't know man, just a quick thought off the top of my head really. Probably would suck if implemented.