You know, I am a Star Wars fan/geek for almost 30 years and a roleplayer for also a very long time. For me the idea to play a Jedi in a virtual RP setting like a MMO is like a dream. A dream SWG had never fulfilled.

Somehow, following the SWTOR forums has saddened me. While there are sure some good and insightful people, a lot seem to be of a way... Somehow I wish you could limit Jedi class only to people with an intelligent and character test. Before you laugh it off, yeah its some odd nerdosity, but, it makes me cringe when I think what type of jerks will play that class. Ok, they will play other classes, too, but it only really matters with Jedi.

For me, Jedi are one of the best fiction inventions, they are no mere action heroes like thousands of others from thousands of other fiction. Like a Star Trek officer, the idea of a Jedi is some inspiring dream of humans bettering themselves. In ancient times humanity transported ethics via heroic tales, of people overcoming obstacles inside or outside of themselves. And such a thing were Jedi for me. The deeper you delve with all the novels and games, the more you can learn of other points of view, and sure while Star Wars isnt a Holy Book it sure contains some ethical questions. To me thus playing Jedi has to have meaning. And it cringe and sigh at the thought what kind of jerks will play Jedi as action heroes, as killing machines who "hunt Sith" like trophies.

Why does it always have to come down to this, which side kills more? Would not the Jedi class in a story-driven game be the one, big chance to make something better, something greater? Deep inside I hope they will impose limits to Jedi which sort of prevent jerks for playing Jedi. A Jedi must act like one, and be more than a soldier, more than just one more killing "bad guys" - action-hero.

Of course for Bioware I am afraid it will pay off more easier to just make Jedi another action melee soldier for the hyper hyper kids and leave those few folks with old fashioned ideas to their dreaming.

Sorry for the rambling, I am sure 99% of folks will just wonder what that guy here the heck is talking about...

Elikal, I agree with you.

But then again, I think everyone should have to take an intelligence exam to even be allowed on the internet, much less in the mmos I play. For one thing, the web would be a whole lot faster. Net lag would be non-existant once all the neanderthals were removed from the bandwidth.

Sadly, neither of us is going to get what we want.

  It's very simple what type of people will play this, and what age group they're aiming it at. The art style is the same as the kiddie cartoon series Star Wars the clone Wars that started on TV in 2008. Mr Lucas is making sure Bioware keep this Star Wars MMO childish. For adults to play this will be embarrassing, just as it's embarrassing when adults admit they play World of Warcraft that clearly caters to children with it's art direction and content.

A few things; intelligence is subjective, morality/ethics are relative and heroism is an illusion.

Originally posted by WisebutCruel

Elikal, I agree with you.

But then again, I think everyone should have to take an intelligence exam to even be allowed on the internet.

Amen to that.

 I have to, unfortunately, agree with all the assessments made here. Jedi will just be a class. Sure there may be Jedi centric quests that include appropriate lore, choices, etc. But we all know how many players are actually going to care about that lore. And as far as the art direction is concerned. IF the game avoids the dumbed down kiddo trap as far as content is concerned, I don't mind it as much. But I am very concerned that the art direction is being dictated, and if that is the case I can't imagine the content is not as well.

That said, I have to say that I made myself watch a couple of episodes of the new Clone Wars, just out of my Star Wars nerdly duty, and I was much more impressed than I thought I would be. It is actually not bad, much much MUCH better than any of the prequels (though that wasn't hard). That is why I am not 100% convinced the art direction betrays the content. I would be quite pleased with content of the sophistication and maturity written into the new cartoon.

I've stated my concerns on this topic before. However, my forum account must've been deleted due to inactivity. However, I do agree, to the dot. First off, I'd like to say this, [Mod Edit] who say the game is going to be aimed at little children. I SERIOUSLY doubt it is. The graphics are NOT like Clone Wars, look at the freaking screenshots before assuming such things.

Anyway, prejudice aside, I honestly think that the game may end up being ruined by the idiots, the jerks, and the dimwits. Ruining story plots for everyone, going around killing whomever they see for no reason but to laugh and say "Pwnt nub". I'm highly afraid of this, to the point of thinking about it makes me shake and shudder at the bare thought of seeing a great potential game like this ruined by 400 jedi and no other classes. However, you need to think, that this is during a time where having armies of jedi was canon, you know? That's what someone said to me when I brought up my concerns just like these; but yeah, there's no stopping it. Unless there's an actual age limit, inwhich, well, will obvious be abused and lied too, like all things with age limits. They'll put in false information, without any conscience about it just to get into the game. And if there isn't an age limit, it'll swarm with 8-12 year olds, 13-16 year olds, who don't give one shit about playing the game for the sheer RP of the fact, but just to kill whomever they want, level like crazy, and become godly.

Look at WoW, it's technically rated M for mature, yet you still get 8 year olds playing. I think even the CEO of Blizzard lets his young child play it. Or at least I heard this. Still though, unless the mods and GMs will be very detailed and very strict. We have to face the fact, that there will be fools. There will be children. There will be everything we hate, and there's no way to stop it. The game will be great, but the fools will destroy it before it can last 3 years, I'm sure of it. Where there will be RP, there will be RP haters who believe RP is pointless, and stupid and that everyone who likes to RP is a 'st00pud nub'. I seem to be repeating myself, but that's besides the point.

The point I'm trying to make, is, there's no way to stop it. Unless you open private servers. Even then, you'll get at least one or two shorthand typing fools who believe becoming godly on a video game is the meaning of life. When we all know the meaning of life is 42. That's all I have to say on the matter..that and to have hope, faith, and optimism...Trying to fight it is like screwing for virginity.

 Here is the root of my problem not only with the direction this game is taking, but the people who seem to be excited about it.

Single player games are inherently different than MMOs.  You can have stories in MMOs, just not the same way single player games have them (which is what this game will have).  It doesn't make any sense at all, and unfortunately WoW has ruined any sort of mainstream MMO immersion.  If you are truly into RPing and are truly into MMOs, why on earth do you think having Jedi is a good idea?  From an MMO standpoint, having an alpha class is a horrible idea.  Why should you be better than everyone else just because you clicked a button?  Now, I should inject that I'm mostly referring to SWG since the OP mentioned it.  I'm not just saying that Jedi are slightly better, they were UNSTOPPABLE to 99.9% of the non-Jedi population (even while blind folded and mashing buttons).

From an RP standpoint, this whole "everyone is a hero" thing is just dumb.  I know that the timeline for TOR allows for there to actually be a bunch of Jedi, but that is no excuse to automatically be a hero.  In a single player game, it's fine because it is more like a book, but for MMOs is vastly different.  People are only heroic with respect to other people (much like real life).  Will you really feel heroic defeating boss X when 10000 people have already done it?  Shouldn't being a hero require doing something heroic?  Now, most people aren't heroic, so they won't acheive that status in game, which developers don't like....BUT MMOs ARE DIFFERENT.

I look forward to playing this game because SWG was my favorite MMO experience and KotOR is one of my favorite single player games, but I don't think this game will last much longer than the single player experience it provides (I sincerely hope that changes though).  I too love Jedi, but only in a single-player-minded kind of way.  It's quite dumb to just be a Jedi in an MMO because you just want to be.  Frankly, most people who played Jedi in SWG (and it will most likely be the same in TOR) didn't act at all like Jedi.  If they are balanced (not every Jedi is Luke Skywalker...which this game is aiming for), it'll be OK, but then again I'm not a fan of this whole "heroic" theme they seem to think is good for MMOs.

I REALLY hope I'm wrong about TOR...but there is a reason I mostly play multiplayer games instead of single player games.

I love having Jedi's as a playable class from the beginning, but I would like to see some restrictions put in place..

1)  One Jedi per server..

2) Lengthy cooldown resurrection period upon death.. What I mean here is IF your Jedi toon dies, It will be a period about a time (hours) before you can play him/her again..  Don't play your Jedi sloppy.. :)

I think this would promote people playing other toons other then jedis or siths, if you plan on kicking the can often..

 Would make sense if players could only roll a Jedi or a Sith per server, to keep the factions guessing what the others up to. 

The idea is good. But, that won't change the twinks, the idiots, or the fools. They will want a jedi or a sith. They will still get through the storyline before someone else, and still end up spoiling things.. The point is, no matter what we say or do. There will still be some sort of problem with it. If you roll a jedi on one server, you can roll a sith on another. And find out everything anyway.

My idea would be, limit one jedi or sith per ACCOUNT. Yes. Per -account-. If the game is Pay to play, then people won't want more then one account. 'Cause that means double the money leaving their bank accounts.

I can safely assume, that if you make a jedi, you can still choose sides. You could probably be a sith, and cross back to the light. Look at Juhani, Bastila, Darth Vader. You know? It should HONESTLY be one jedi PER ACCOUNT. That way there's not an overpopulated game full of crazy twinks jumping from world to world killing their oposition for no reason other then to laugh and say "Pwnt."

If it were up to me, I'd strictly make it one force-user per account. Or make it random, like SWG used to be(or make it so you have to work for it) If the kiddies cry, they cry. Not our problem. Whats one person's money out of the obvious millions that will automaticly play? It's Star Wars. It's Bioware. There will be MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of players. If people want to cry because they're not free to play a jedi, let them.

Anyway, I still stand by 1 jedi per account.

Originally posted by Elikal

You know, I am a Star Wars fan/geek for almost 30 years and a roleplayer for also a very long time. For me the idea to play a Jedi in a virtual RP setting like a MMO is like a dream. A dream SWG had never fulfilled.

Somehow, following the SWTOR forums has saddened me. While there are sure some good and insightful people, a lot seem to be of a way... Somehow I wish you could limit Jedi class only to people with an intelligent and character test. Before you laugh it off, yeah its some odd nerdosity, but, it makes me cringe when I think what type of jerks will play that class. Ok, they will play other classes, too, but it only really matters with Jedi.

For me, Jedi are one of the best fiction inventions, they are no mere action heroes like thousands of others from thousands of other fiction. Like a Star Trek officer, the idea of a Jedi is some inspiring dream of humans bettering themselves. In ancient times humanity transported ethics via heroic tales, of people overcoming obstacles inside or outside of themselves. And such a thing were Jedi for me. The deeper you delve with all the novels and games, the more you can learn of other points of view, and sure while Star Wars isnt a Holy Book it sure contains some ethical questions. To me thus playing Jedi has to have meaning. And it cringe and sigh at the thought what kind of jerks will play Jedi as action heroes, as killing machines who "hunt Sith" like trophies.

Why does it always have to come down to this, which side kills more? Would not the Jedi class in a story-driven game be the one, big chance to make something better, something greater? Deep inside I hope they will impose limits to Jedi which sort of prevent jerks for playing Jedi. A Jedi must act like one, and be more than a soldier, more than just one more killing "bad guys" - action-hero.

 

Of course for Bioware I am afraid it will pay off more easier to just make Jedi another action melee soldier for the hyper hyper kids and leave those few folks with old fashioned ideas to their dreaming.

Sorry for the rambling, I am sure 99% of folks will just wonder what that guy here the heck is talking about...

It's all relative isn't it? To me, you come off as an elitist jackass who thinks his way of playing is better than anyone elses. Here's an idea you play the way you want and let other people play the way they want. Everyone has the right to play the game they want as long as they don't intentionally try to interfere with other peoples game. Grow up!

Originally posted by Biships

Originally posted by Elikal

You know, I am a Star Wars fan/geek for almost 30 years and a roleplayer for also a very long time. For me the idea to play a Jedi in a virtual RP setting like a MMO is like a dream. A dream SWG had never fulfilled.

Somehow, following the SWTOR forums has saddened me. While there are sure some good and insightful people, a lot seem to be of a way... Somehow I wish you could limit Jedi class only to people with an intelligent and character test. Before you laugh it off, yeah its some odd nerdosity, but, it makes me cringe when I think what type of jerks will play that class. Ok, they will play other classes, too, but it only really matters with Jedi.

For me, Jedi are one of the best fiction inventions, they are no mere action heroes like thousands of others from thousands of other fiction. Like a Star Trek officer, the idea of a Jedi is some inspiring dream of humans bettering themselves. In ancient times humanity transported ethics via heroic tales, of people overcoming obstacles inside or outside of themselves. And such a thing were Jedi for me. The deeper you delve with all the novels and games, the more you can learn of other points of view, and sure while Star Wars isnt a Holy Book it sure contains some ethical questions. To me thus playing Jedi has to have meaning. And it cringe and sigh at the thought what kind of jerks will play Jedi as action heroes, as killing machines who "hunt Sith" like trophies.

Why does it always have to come down to this, which side kills more? Would not the Jedi class in a story-driven game be the one, big chance to make something better, something greater? Deep inside I hope they will impose limits to Jedi which sort of prevent jerks for playing Jedi. A Jedi must act like one, and be more than a soldier, more than just one more killing "bad guys" - action-hero.

 

Of course for Bioware I am afraid it will pay off more easier to just make Jedi another action melee soldier for the hyper hyper kids and leave those few folks with old fashioned ideas to their dreaming.

Sorry for the rambling, I am sure 99% of folks will just wonder what that guy here the heck is talking about...

It's all relative isn't it? To me, you come off as an elitist jackass who thinks his way of playing is better than anyone elses. Here's an idea you play the way you want and let other people play the way they want. Everyone has the right to play the game they want as long as they don't intentionally try to interfere with other peoples game. Grow up!

Uhuh. The only thing the OP can do is hoping for RP servers for a more mature and serious crowd who try to remain true to their character's background in their behavior, though ofcourse that isn't a guarantee that you won't meet any f*cktards ... actually you can be pretty damn sure that you WILL run into those quite often; it IS an online game, mate. Just ignore 'em.

Any word on server types yet, by the way?

When the evil Palpatine says, “Good is a point of view--the Sith and the Jedi are almost the same,” we can dismiss this moral relativism as part of the deception of the dark side. 

But in a pivotal scene, Obi-Wan says what amounts to the same thing: “Only a Sith deals in absolutes.” 

Isn’t that odd? The only thing both sides agree on is that people who believe in absolute good and evil are bad! 

I suspect that Lucas realized, after writing "Good is a point of view," that all his friends actually believed that. So he had to make it clear that moral relativism was the right way after all—so he had Obi-Wan say that absolutism was a Sith thing, even though in the actual story, the best of the Jedis show an unbending commitment to absolute Good. 

It’s a terrible thing, I suppose, for a writer to invent a religion and then discover that he and all his friends are on the wrong side of it.

the most popular classes tend to be the ones with the biggest amount of jerks mainly due to PvP balance (most popular classes are powerful in PvP).  I find myself actively seeking out the lesser played classes mainly due to the maturity levels and for the (more) unique experiance (grouped with about 20 Deathknights in WoW last week compared to about 6 from other classes and i can tell you it gets dull and boring watching the same old moves over and over again).

I might roll a jedi for the hell of it and i may enjoy it briefly but i will always favour the underdog as for me it provides a much better experiance.

I really couldn't believe it when I started to read the OP's thoughts, there have been ppl over the centuries that have had similar ideas in who should be doing what and who deserves this and that, most of them are called Dictators or Tyrants, the most recent being ofc Adolf Hitler, with his idea of who deserved to live in his version of the world.

The OP has expressed an extremist view of who he thinks deserves to play a game, why anyone here should believe they have the right to tell ppl they are not worthy to play a game is beyond me, by all means hold the idea of playing a Jedi as the pinnacle of that game but please don't dictate to everyone who wants to play the game what they can and can't do.

Please keep such thoughts to yourself, they should definately not be associated with any game what so ever, it's an horrendous thing to think of. You should be throroughly ashamed of yourself.

ok op..........man you really need to get out more. this is just a game bro some made up stuff. i understand your really into star wars and good for ya. but there comes a point when it goes beyond being a game for some ppl and i think thats you man. dude every game is gunna have all the 1337 freaks. deal with it or dont play all it really boils down too. i think biowear is a great comp. and i never played swg cause im not a big star wars fan and i had better games to play. but kotor was a great game only reason i will check this one out. and all you guys that think feeling like a hero in mmo's is dumb. the whole point of a mmo is do things you cant do in real life. am i ever gunna slay a dragon...........um dont think so. cause they dont exist but it sure makes you feel good to wipe the floor with a big bad boss with some of your friends. the point im trying to make is that these games exist to make you feel special even if you are not. are you gunna be a hero in real life. most ppl wont are you gunna risk your life and pull ppl from a buring building that you dont know? in the real world if you die you leave behind your wife your kids your fam and your friends. in a game if you die you respawn at your bind point and try again. just dont read to much into a game it is there for entertainment nothing more if your not having fun dont play. if you are then play away just dont forget there is real life away from your pc.

 The church of the jedi are recruiting now in time for your countrys next census.

Originally posted by qbangy32

I really couldn't believe it when I started to read the OP's thoughts, there have been ppl over the centuries that have had similar ideas in who should be doing what and who deserves this and that, most of them are called Dictators or Tyrants, the most recent being ofc Adolf Hitler, with his idea of who deserved to live in his version of the world.

The OP has expressed an extremist view of who he thinks deserves to play a game, why anyone here should believe they have the right to tell ppl they are not worthy to play a game is beyond me, by all means hold the idea of playing a Jedi as the pinnacle of that game but please don't dictate to everyone who wants to play the game what they can and can't do.

Please keep such thoughts to yourself, they should definately not be associated with any game what so ever, it's an horrendous thing to think of. You should be throroughly ashamed of yourself.

 

 

Agreed.  100%  Although I'm pretty sure the OP didn't intend his message to be taken this way.  However, regardless of how we package and digest all the philosophical rhetoric of the OP, in the end it is nothing more than elitist rambling.

I would love to see an MMO with actual restricted classes or *gods forbid* one where you actually had to adhere to a code of conduct or otherwise give something up/accept some limitations in order to play "cool class XX".

It's not all about elitism...it's about consequence, story and believability...but no studio will ever do it, because the great unwashed masses are all about me me me me me me me right now everything with no sacrifice.

It was the "everyone should get to be a jedi without sacrifice, cost or risk" crowd that helped utterly destroy SWG.

Classes/characters given special powers of that nature *should* have to sacrifice. Jedi, Paladins, Priests etc *should* have codes of conduct that they *must* abide by or lose their powers/status. Otherwise they aren't "Jedi" - it's "gangs of NY with lightsabres!"

 PS For the whackos who felt compelled to drag tyrants and fascists into this; you might want to remember how many people have been slaughtered, starved to death or sent to re-education camps by the fine agents of the proletariate masses who think everyone deserves complete and total equality of outcome regardless of contribution :) Or perhaps just lighten up, it is as you said, a game.