Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

Originally posted by Hagonbok

Wow, someone has been filling your head full of a whole whack of garbage eh? That's all really amusing mate. hehehe. Completely inaccurae, and almost word for word the "propoganda" (since it's all totally made up but meant to put a different spin on reality) that amatuer RPers have been  trying to spread for quite awhile , but amusing.

 

Ok, I get it now.....your trolling. Silly me, I actually took you seriously for a moment.

Nice style though.... no substasnce in your rebuttal. Just empty rhetoric.

 

 

EDIT: I removed what I wrote, to sum it up grumpymel, don't bother with him.

Originally posted by warrior41

 From the official site words of Craig Zinkavech: 

There will be plenty of interiors in the game at launch - there are plenty in the game right now and I don't see them going anywhere. : )

You will be taken to interiors during instanced missions. You'll go to them in persistent ways as well - mostly social, but also in other cases that I'm going to be vague about right now on purpose : ) - There are starbases, satellites, ship interiors (yes, ships), buildings on the ground, caverns under the earth or deep in asteroids - all sorts of places you'll adventure within interiors.

Sadly, what we won't have at launch is the ability for you to customize your own ship, invite other players over and walkaround, seeing hundreds of NPC crew members and investigate every nook, cranny and Jefferies tube on it. We want to make sure that when we a feature like this in, it is a robust system that people will love, not just a marketing bullet point on the back of the box.

 

WHAT DO YOU THINK? DOES IT SAY ANYTHING NEW? 

SOE & SWG ring any bells? SOE made the same type of statements about SWG . Were they ever fullfilled? No we are still waiting for capital ships, gardening,  and more. The fact is until they fulfill what they say it is a lie.The only real experiance Cryptic has with MMO's is CoH/CoV but they will need to change their development style completely or the game will most likely end up a bust.
 

SOE & SWG ring any bells? SOE made the same type of statements about SWG . Were they ever fullfilled? No we are still waiting for capital ships, gardening,  and more. The fact is until they fulfill what they say it is a lie.The only real experiance Cryptic has with MMO's is CoH/CoV but they will need to change their development style completely or the game will most likely end up a bust.
 

Comparing Cryptic promises to SOE(totally unrelated company) promises in that way is unfair for obvious reasons.  It's also unfair to call them lies.  From what I hear, CoH/CoV had great content updates.  I see no reason to think otherwise.  If you do think otherwise, just don't buy the game until the content you want gets added, that simple.  I don't see how going around slandering companies, for lies they haven't committed, does any good.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by AllNewMMOSuk

The fact that people are arguing back and forth on whether there should be actual role playing, in the sense of speaking the language of the game (old english for old time games, techno crap for star trek times) and acting like you are the guy you're playing, is amusing.

 

It has been proven that the best business model for making money is to NOT try and get players to role play while playing, the vast majority does not and will never want to do that.

 

If you are a person who desires this, stick to pen and paper games where you choose the group who plays and can all choose to roleplay. There will never be a major/successfull mmo made around forced role playing, it is not a way to make profits.

 

The issue is more with HOW some people like to roleplay. I myself have had no problem roleplaying in any MMO I have played because they all have a lore that I can sink my imagination into.I don't need other people to have fun in the game. If I want to group with others and I have the time I will. If I don't want to deal with all the garbage that comes with someone's ego, I simply ignore them and have my own fun. I like having that option which didn't exist not so long ago.

For others, that isn't enough. They want a game that is a complete simulator where grouping is not only encouraged but in fact a neccessity for getting ahead. They feel that it isn't a roleplaying game when stories are written for you and grouping isn't a major part of getting ahead.However, the option to ignore the quests and group with their buddies still remain an option in every MMO I have played. So I don't understand those that say give us the option because as far as I'm concerned, that option has existed already.

I'm on board with this.  Terms evolve and such, and I'm too young to know the true beginnings, but I'll say that present usage seems to be more in line with Hagonbok's definition.  When I buy a MMORPG I know I'm buying a game with progression, skill based combat that at it's core uses turn based mechanics (like table top games) with dice rolls, and I'll be playing with other people around.  

It is understood that in an MMORPG I can Role Play in the sense that you guys are talking, but isn't that true of many games/genres?  I could RP in a FPS if i wanted, no problem.  I could even RP in many RTSs (especially one like Supreme Commander where you have a leader).   RP isn't realy limited to a genre, just the imagination IMO.  

If you guys are saying that no ship interior customization/PC crew emphasis is totally against your view on Star Trek and would take you out of the ST experience, then fine.  Don't buy the game until the features you enjoy are in the game. I don't understand this beating of a dead horse.  STO has gone in the direction of one user star ship control emphasis.  IMO that's great, that was the vision I had when I thought first heard ST was going to be in an MMO.

Originally posted by tamgros

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by AllNewMMOSuk

The fact that people are arguing back and forth on whether there should be actual role playing, in the sense of speaking the language of the game (old english for old time games, techno crap for star trek times) and acting like you are the guy you're playing, is amusing.

 

It has been proven that the best business model for making money is to NOT try and get players to role play while playing, the vast majority does not and will never want to do that.

 

If you are a person who desires this, stick to pen and paper games where you choose the group who plays and can all choose to roleplay. There will never be a major/successfull mmo made around forced role playing, it is not a way to make profits.

 

The issue is more with HOW some people like to roleplay. I myself have had no problem roleplaying in any MMO I have played because they all have a lore that I can sink my imagination into.I don't need other people to have fun in the game. If I want to group with others and I have the time I will. If I don't want to deal with all the garbage that comes with someone's ego, I simply ignore them and have my own fun. I like having that option which didn't exist not so long ago.

For others, that isn't enough. They want a game that is a complete simulator where grouping is not only encouraged but in fact a neccessity for getting ahead. They feel that it isn't a roleplaying game when stories are written for you and grouping isn't a major part of getting ahead.However, the option to ignore the quests and group with their buddies still remain an option in every MMO I have played. So I don't understand those that say give us the option because as far as I'm concerned, that option has existed already.

I'm on board with this.  Terms evolve and such, and I'm too young to know the true beginnings, but I'll say that present usage seems to be more in line with Hagonbok's definition.  When I buy a MMORPG I know I'm buying a game with progression, skill based combat that at it's core uses turn based mechanics (like table top games) with dice roles, and I'll be playing with other people around.  

It is understood that in an MMORPG I can Role Play in the sense that you guys are talking, but isn't that true of many games/genres?  I could RP in a FPS if i wanted, no problem.  I could even RP in many RTSs (especially one like Supreme Commander where you have a leader).   RP isn't realy limited to a genre, just the imagination IMO.  

If you guys are saying that no ship interior customization/PC crew emphasis is totally against your view on Star Trek and would take you out of the ST experience, then fine.  Don't buy the game until the features you enjoy are in the game. I don't understand this beating of a dead horse.  STO has gone in the direction of one user star ship control emphasis.  IMO that's great, that was the vision I had when I thought first heard ST was going to be in an MMO.

I understand your point of view and respect it. At least your hopes are being fulfilled and that's good. Mine and other's POV is just different. We had so hoped that it would be multi-Player ships, players within a command structure very similar or identical to Star Trek the series and movies.

As for myself and others waiting for our style of gameplay to be added to the game in an expansion....

It will not happen. If the Game is not designed from "day one" to be Multi-Player Crews aboard Ships, then the only way to put that feature in a game later on is to rewrite the game code from the ground up. No Development Company is going to do that. No Investment Group will sign off on it. No Stockholders will vote yes for it. And most importantly, in the competitive market of MMOs no amount of subscriptions one or two years post launch will pay for it. If someone tells you multi-Player Crew Gameplay  will be added later they are mistaken. Even if the Devs of STO said they would consider adding this feature later they are deluding themselves and us by thinking it will be possible.

At least you and others that share your POV will get what you wanted from STO....Cool.

Originally posted by Gardavil

Originally posted by tamgros

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by AllNewMMOSuk

The fact that people are arguing back and forth on whether there should be actual role playing, in the sense of speaking the language of the game (old english for old time games, techno crap for star trek times) and acting like you are the guy you're playing, is amusing.

 

It has been proven that the best business model for making money is to NOT try and get players to role play while playing, the vast majority does not and will never want to do that.

 

If you are a person who desires this, stick to pen and paper games where you choose the group who plays and can all choose to roleplay. There will never be a major/successfull mmo made around forced role playing, it is not a way to make profits.

 

The issue is more with HOW some people like to roleplay. I myself have had no problem roleplaying in any MMO I have played because they all have a lore that I can sink my imagination into.I don't need other people to have fun in the game. If I want to group with others and I have the time I will. If I don't want to deal with all the garbage that comes with someone's ego, I simply ignore them and have my own fun. I like having that option which didn't exist not so long ago.

For others, that isn't enough. They want a game that is a complete simulator where grouping is not only encouraged but in fact a neccessity for getting ahead. They feel that it isn't a roleplaying game when stories are written for you and grouping isn't a major part of getting ahead.However, the option to ignore the quests and group with their buddies still remain an option in every MMO I have played. So I don't understand those that say give us the option because as far as I'm concerned, that option has existed already.

I'm on board with this.  Terms evolve and such, and I'm too young to know the true beginnings, but I'll say that present usage seems to be more in line with Hagonbok's definition.  When I buy a MMORPG I know I'm buying a game with progression, skill based combat that at it's core uses turn based mechanics (like table top games) with dice roles, and I'll be playing with other people around.  

It is understood that in an MMORPG I can Role Play in the sense that you guys are talking, but isn't that true of many games/genres?  I could RP in a FPS if i wanted, no problem.  I could even RP in many RTSs (especially one like Supreme Commander where you have a leader).   RP isn't realy limited to a genre, just the imagination IMO.  

If you guys are saying that no ship interior customization/PC crew emphasis is totally against your view on Star Trek and would take you out of the ST experience, then fine.  Don't buy the game until the features you enjoy are in the game. I don't understand this beating of a dead horse.  STO has gone in the direction of one user star ship control emphasis.  IMO that's great, that was the vision I had when I thought first heard ST was going to be in an MMO.

 

I understand your point of view and respect it. At least your hopes are being fulfilled and that's good. Mine and other's POV is just different. We had so hoped that it would be multi-Player ships, players within a command structure very similar or identical to Star Trek the series and movies.

As for myself and others waiting for our style of gameplay to be added to the game in an expansion....

It will not happen. If the Game is not designed from "day one" to be Multi-Player Crews aboard Ships, then the only way to put that feature in a game later on is to rewrite the game code from the ground up. No Development Company is going to do that. No Investment Group will sign off on it. No Stockholders will vote yes for it. And most importantly, in the competitive market of MMOs no amount of subscriptions one or two years post launch will pay for it. If someone tells you multi-Player Crew Gameplay  will be added later they are mistaken. Even if the Devs of STO said they would consider adding this feature later they are deluding themselves and us by thinking it will be possible.

At least you and others that share your POV will get what you wanted from STO....Cool.

I'm a bit of a programmer myself (and my brother is actually getting his phd in comp sci) and we've talked about this a bit. 

There are some things they can do.  Adding mini games to different functions isn't hard (and you'd think they would plan for that).  On my solo ship I hope to eventually be able to step in and perform different functions such as analyzing sensor sweeps, stabalizing pattern buffers, realign the warp core, using the dermal regenorator, etc. etc.  These mini games could be put into the episodic mission system quite easily.  Perhaps eventually they can add enough mini games that it makes sense for multiple PCs to perform the functions.  

Another posibility is that they can splice their code to split up what was formally controlled by one person, to multiple people. The problem with this is that the system was designed for 1 person, so things are proably going to be simplified to the point where one person performing only one of the tasks wouldn't feel important.  They'd have to make targeting different targets more complex than pressing tab, give helm control more options than WASD, z axis movement, and mouse look (maybe add barrell rolls! haha, seriously though, maybe doing something about having to deal with spacial waves, different fields and such as we've seen in the shows), etc.  You're right that this may be impossible without a complete revamp, but maybe not.  Part of it depends on how complex they were planning on making the game in teh first place (IMO hopefully really comples).  Cryptic's engine is supposed to be a very strong technology.  I just wonder if "strong' also means flexible, I'd think so...

I love reading the posts of some of you people.  Alot of people say I wont buy it unless it has this and this and this... Yet there going to waste there money on some other game with pretty much the same feature as STO with out all the extra stuff.

And there are the trekies who say i wont buy it unless it as this and this and this, because it just wont be trek with out it. Okay that makes cence  i guess,  but i still think your puting to much thought on the tittle instead of the actual game. In your opinion it might not be star trek but it could still be a kick ass game, but you shun it not because its a bad game but because its not as trekish as you think it should be...

If they're planning to launch a game w/o any Star Trek philosophy, dont use that name to claim players, just call it "Space Online" or "Space killers online", but dont use the Star Trek name cause isnt a Trek game...This is shameful.

Originally posted by LordRelic

I love reading the posts of some of you people.  Alot of people say I wont buy it unless it has this and this and this... Yet there going to waste there money on some other game with pretty much the same feature as STO with out all the extra stuff.

And there are the trekies who say i wont buy it unless it as this and this and this, because it just wont be trek with out it. Okay that makes cence  i guess,  but i still think your puting to much thought on the tittle instead of the actual game. In your opinion it might not be star trek but it could still be a kick ass game, but you shun it not because its a bad game but because its not as trekish as you think it should be...

I won't be wasting my money on any other game....because I no longer wish to support MMOs that cater to the Killer and Achiever Gamers and ignore/minimize the Explorer and Socializer Gamers (reference the Bartle Gamers Profile). I am burnt out attempting to adapt to MMOs that are not designed with Players like myself in mind. Take a good look at my signature on this post......perhaps then you can understand why I place far more emphasis on the social aspects of MMOs than on Combat.

Would I myself make a good Captain of a Federation Starship? NO WAY if you look at my Bartle Gamers Profile...but I would be well suited to Science division or Medical...so for STO to be designed in such a way to automatically make every Player a Captain also automatically excludes myself from ever fully enjoying the game. Think about it...would you want a Captain in your Fleet that has a Bartle's Killer score of ZERO?
 

I had hoped that STO being based upon Star Trek that perhaps this MMO would finally be designed to appeal more to the Explorers and the Socializers...I was wrong. STO will be just like all other MMOs...Designed first and foremost for the Killers and Achievers.

I am a Trekkie...and I really have no desire to play a Star Trek game of any type or genre unless it allows Players the ability to work together as a Crew to man a Star Ship.

Will STO be an Awesome Game? I believe it will. Most Players are going to have a blast in STO. Enjoy.

The Bartle data is antiquated crappola designed for text based MUDs and has very little relevance to mmorpgs. It's people that have a screwed up concept of what mmorpgs are that keep referencing it as something to be paid attention to in regards to mmorpgs. It's people that think mmorpgs are evolved from MUDs.

They're not.

mmorpgs are evolved from TT (table top) RPGs, and the "RPG" isn't about playing make believe and all this other drek they want to hang on it. RPG is about the mechanics (turn based dice rolls and character progression via learnt skills, advancing skills, gaining experience, acquiring new items, etc etc)

If you're lamenting that mmorpgs aren't more like MUDs and don't specifically cater to people that just want to inhabit some virtual world, make believe some intricately thought out character, and yammer away all day long to others then you're barking up the wrong tree. You are, and have been, following the completely wrong genre. Unfortunately there's just enough other mutton heads out there that have it all screwed up in their minds too to give this bunch this very very false sense of entitlement.

These people want to change what mmorpgs are. They want to turn them into sims rather than games. A place inhabited by people that do nothing but chin wag all day long. In short, they want to suck all the fun out of them and make sure they're only populated by pompous pinheads like themselves.

Originally posted by moondeath

If they're planning to launch a game w/o any Star Trek philosophy, dont use that name to claim players, just call it "Space Online" or "Space killers online", but dont use the Star Trek name cause isnt a Trek game...This is shameful.

You lost me, what is shameful about this?  Not having customizable ship interiors/PC crews?  Or the fact that the universe is a little more volitile?

Cryptic has stated that many of the missions and story arcs aren't combat centric.  They also have a whole procedurally generation  mechanic (ie guided random content) for exploration!  ST, IMO, is about a finding human ideal and analyzing this ideal.  There are a lot of facets around this, exploration, diplomacy, science/discovery, etc.  

To me, the way they used the crews in the shows/movies is a television tool.  It's what that genre uses.  The game/MMO genre uses individual avatars to represent the whole ship's experience.  That way you can experience the whole story (just as you did as a viewer) and not just the engineer's view of the story. What's the problem?

Originally posted by Hagonbok

The Bartle data is antiquated crappola designed for text based MUDs and has very little relevance to mmorpgs. It's people that have a screwed up concept of what mmorpgs are that keep referencing it as something to be paid attention to in regards to mmorpgs. It's people that think mmorpgs are evolved from MUDs.

They're not.

mmorpgs are evolved from TT (table top) RPGs, and the "RPG" isn't about playing make believe and all this other drek they want to hang on it. RPG is about the mechanics (turn based dice rolls and character progression via learnt skills, advancing skills, gaining experience, acquiring new items, etc etc)

If you're lamenting that mmorpgs aren't more like MUDs and don't specifically cater to people that just want to inhabit some virtual world, make believe some intricately thought out character, and yammer away all day long to others then you're barking up the wrong tree. You are, and have been, following the completely wrong genre. Unfortunately there's just enough other mutton heads out there that have it all screwed up in their minds too to give this bunch this very very false sense of entitlement.

 

These people want to change what mmorpgs are. They want to turn them into sims rather than games. A place inhabited by people that do nothing but chin wag all day long. In short, they want to suck all the fun out of them and make sure they're only populated by pompous pinheads like themselves.

Excuse me for voicing my opinion Hagenbok, I forgot that everything I wish to say has to have your seal of approval on it first!

Not ONCE have I slammed your particular game play preferences as I am very willing to have MMOs the way YOU like them as long as there is content in them that I favor as well.

But that is not good enough for you is it? No, you seem determined to forge all MMOs in your image. Anyone that does not have the same vision for what MMOs should or shouldn't be you just disregard their opinions and insult them.

Next time I will PM you and ask your permission before I voice my opinion....Better yet, I just won't express my opinion at all. As I said in another thread...and it has finally sunk into my brain....the MMO Genre belongs to you.

Originally posted by Gardavil

Originally posted by Hagonbok

The Bartle data is antiquated crappola designed for text based MUDs and has very little relevance to mmorpgs. It's people that have a screwed up concept of what mmorpgs are that keep referencing it as something to be paid attention to in regards to mmorpgs. It's people that think mmorpgs are evolved from MUDs.

They're not.

mmorpgs are evolved from TT (table top) RPGs, and the "RPG" isn't about playing make believe and all this other drek they want to hang on it. RPG is about the mechanics (turn based dice rolls and character progression via learnt skills, advancing skills, gaining experience, acquiring new items, etc etc)

If you're lamenting that mmorpgs aren't more like MUDs and don't specifically cater to people that just want to inhabit some virtual world, make believe some intricately thought out character, and yammer away all day long to others then you're barking up the wrong tree. You are, and have been, following the completely wrong genre. Unfortunately there's just enough other mutton heads out there that have it all screwed up in their minds too to give this bunch this very very false sense of entitlement.

 

These people want to change what mmorpgs are. They want to turn them into sims rather than games. A place inhabited by people that do nothing but chin wag all day long. In short, they want to suck all the fun out of them and make sure they're only populated by pompous pinheads like themselves.

 

Excuse me for voicing my opinion Hagenbok, I forgot that everything I wish to say has to have your seal of approval on it first!

Not ONCE have I slammed your particular game play preferences as I am very willing to have MMOs the way YOU like them as long as there is content in them that I favor as well.

But that is not good enough for you is it? No, you seem determined to forge all MMOs in your image. Anyone that does not have the same vision for what MMOs should or shouldn't be you just disregard their opinions and insult them.

Next time I will PM you and ask your permission before I voice my opinion....Better yet, I just won't express my opinion at all. As I said in another thread...and it has finally sunk into my brain....the MMO Genre belongs to you.

Except you can't stop yourself can you?

Despite people telling you over and over and over that STO will in fact have plenty of content that will specifically be catered to your preferred play style, because it doesn't have one very specific feature that you desire you've continued to post with a negative attitude, and with the sole intent of spreading that negativity around. You're trying to paint the game in a bad light. Simple as that. You can dress it up all you like, but it's not going to fool anyone with any sense.

You're just another "If they don't do it my way then I'll work toward harming the game any way I can" type.

If you weren't you would have moved on long ago.

Originally posted by Hagonbok

The Bartle data is antiquated crappola designed for text based MUDs and has very little relevance to mmorpgs. It's people that have a screwed up concept of what mmorpgs are that keep referencing it as something to be paid attention to in regards to mmorpgs. It's people that think mmorpgs are evolved from MUDs.

They're not.

mmorpgs are evolved from TT (table top) RPGs, and the "RPG" isn't about playing make believe and all this other drek they want to hang on it. RPG is about the mechanics (turn based dice rolls and character progression via learnt skills, advancing skills, gaining experience, acquiring new items, etc etc)

If you're lamenting that mmorpgs aren't more like MUDs and don't specifically cater to people that just want to inhabit some virtual world, make believe some intricately thought out character, and yammer away all day long to others then you're barking up the wrong tree. You are, and have been, following the completely wrong genre. Unfortunately there's just enough other mutton heads out there that have it all screwed up in their minds too to give this bunch this very very false sense of entitlement.

 

These people want to change what mmorpgs are. They want to turn them into sims rather than games. A place inhabited by people that do nothing but chin wag all day long. In short, they want to suck all the fun out of them and make sure they're only populated by pompous pinheads like themselves.

     I enjoyed reading this. I would only add that it's the single-player RPGs that evolved from tabletop games, and that MMORPGs evolved from single-player games. Ultima Online was a continuation of a single-player series, and no, the experience was nothing like a MUD.

     I think the biggest challenge this game faces is the perception of Star Trek by people who are not die-hard Star Trek fans. I know the Star Trek universe well enough to know what a Cardasian is, and there was a time in my life when I would have called myself a trekkie (age 12) -- but now you couldn't get me to sit through an episode of anything but the original series without a lot of duct tape and a cattle prod. But I would buy a Star Trek single-player game if it was in a genre I like and it got good reviews.

     Cryptic is clearly trying to attract the interest of people like me, possibly at the expense of genuine trekkies. Every decision they make along these lines (not having player crews on ships) makes me a little more likely to try the game. The risk they're taking is that I may never try it, whereas there are clearly a lot of dedicated fans on these forums who aren't getting the kinds of things that would keep them playing for years.

Originally posted by Hagonbok

Originally posted by Gardavil

Originally posted by Hagonbok

The Bartle data is antiquated crappola designed for text based MUDs and has very little relevance to mmorpgs. It's people that have a screwed up concept of what mmorpgs are that keep referencing it as something to be paid attention to in regards to mmorpgs. It's people that think mmorpgs are evolved from MUDs.

They're not.

mmorpgs are evolved from TT (table top) RPGs, and the "RPG" isn't about playing make believe and all this other drek they want to hang on it. RPG is about the mechanics (turn based dice rolls and character progression via learnt skills, advancing skills, gaining experience, acquiring new items, etc etc)

If you're lamenting that mmorpgs aren't more like MUDs and don't specifically cater to people that just want to inhabit some virtual world, make believe some intricately thought out character, and yammer away all day long to others then you're barking up the wrong tree. You are, and have been, following the completely wrong genre. Unfortunately there's just enough other mutton heads out there that have it all screwed up in their minds too to give this bunch this very very false sense of entitlement.

 

These people want to change what mmorpgs are. They want to turn them into sims rather than games. A place inhabited by people that do nothing but chin wag all day long. In short, they want to suck all the fun out of them and make sure they're only populated by pompous pinheads like themselves.

 

Excuse me for voicing my opinion Hagenbok, I forgot that everything I wish to say has to have your seal of approval on it first!

Not ONCE have I slammed your particular game play preferences as I am very willing to have MMOs the way YOU like them as long as there is content in them that I favor as well.

But that is not good enough for you is it? No, you seem determined to forge all MMOs in your image. Anyone that does not have the same vision for what MMOs should or shouldn't be you just disregard their opinions and insult them.

Next time I will PM you and ask your permission before I voice my opinion....Better yet, I just won't express my opinion at all. As I said in another thread...and it has finally sunk into my brain....the MMO Genre belongs to you.

Except you can't stop yourself can you?

 

Despite people telling you over and over and over that STO will in fact have plenty of content that will specifically be catered to your preferred play style, because it doesn't have one very specific feature that you desire you've continued to post with a negative attitude, and with the sole intent of spreading that negativity around. You're trying to paint the game in a bad light. Simple as that. You can dress it up all you like, but it's not going to fool anyone with any sense.

 

You're just another "If they don't do it my way then I'll work toward harming the game any way I can" type.

 

If you weren't you would have moved on long ago.

Nagativity in my posts? Sure, I admit that. I have also stated that there are features about STO and other new MMOs that I believe are positive ones. I view most of your posts as negative as well. The only thing we are really accomplishing is that each one of us is "calling the other kettle black". I will not argue this point with you any longer as we shall never agree on anything. I will avoid your posts, and I ask that you avoid commenting on mine. My posts on these boards are usually a reply to someone else's idea or comments and are not meant as a personal attack on any of the posters here or upon the MMO I am discussing. My reply to you before this was an attack, for I get the impression that you have serious issues with me as a poster on these forums, as you have stated above.

Maybe I had not said it enough before(my fault for sure), so here goes...this is how I view STO:

[b]I think there is a lot RIGHT with STO and I believe it will be a great game. It's just not being designed as I believe it should be. I wish the best for STO and I hope it makes WoW's subscriptions numbers look like a has-been game. I wish for STO a long and successful run and I hope the Players are so happy with it that they will forget about all other games. I wish for STO such huge numbers of Players attempting to log into the servers that the Players crash them at first, and that Cryptic has the money to build better servers that allow everyone to enjoy STO that wants to. [/b]

I am NOT attempting "to paint the game in a bad light"....I am have only been voicing my opinions as to how and why I believe STO should be designed differently than the current development plan. Now is the time to voice my opinions for once the game is released it is too late then.

And you are attempting to do the same, aren't you?

Fare Well Hagonbok, I leave these forums to you and the other Posters. May you have many an excellent discussion about MMOs here.

Originally posted by Gardavil

Originally posted by Hagonbok

Originally posted by Gardavil

Originally posted by Hagonbok

The Bartle data is antiquated crappola designed for text based MUDs and has very little relevance to mmorpgs. It's people that have a screwed up concept of what mmorpgs are that keep referencing it as something to be paid attention to in regards to mmorpgs. It's people that think mmorpgs are evolved from MUDs.

They're not.

mmorpgs are evolved from TT (table top) RPGs, and the "RPG" isn't about playing make believe and all this other drek they want to hang on it. RPG is about the mechanics (turn based dice rolls and character progression via learnt skills, advancing skills, gaining experience, acquiring new items, etc etc)

If you're lamenting that mmorpgs aren't more like MUDs and don't specifically cater to people that just want to inhabit some virtual world, make believe some intricately thought out character, and yammer away all day long to others then you're barking up the wrong tree. You are, and have been, following the completely wrong genre. Unfortunately there's just enough other mutton heads out there that have it all screwed up in their minds too to give this bunch this very very false sense of entitlement.

 

These people want to change what mmorpgs are. They want to turn them into sims rather than games. A place inhabited by people that do nothing but chin wag all day long. In short, they want to suck all the fun out of them and make sure they're only populated by pompous pinheads like themselves.

 

Excuse me for voicing my opinion Hagenbok, I forgot that everything I wish to say has to have your seal of approval on it first!

Not ONCE have I slammed your particular game play preferences as I am very willing to have MMOs the way YOU like them as long as there is content in them that I favor as well.

But that is not good enough for you is it? No, you seem determined to forge all MMOs in your image. Anyone that does not have the same vision for what MMOs should or shouldn't be you just disregard their opinions and insult them.

Next time I will PM you and ask your permission before I voice my opinion....Better yet, I just won't express my opinion at all. As I said in another thread...and it has finally sunk into my brain....the MMO Genre belongs to you.

Except you can't stop yourself can you?

 

Despite people telling you over and over and over that STO will in fact have plenty of content that will specifically be catered to your preferred play style, because it doesn't have one very specific feature that you desire you've continued to post with a negative attitude, and with the sole intent of spreading that negativity around. You're trying to paint the game in a bad light. Simple as that. You can dress it up all you like, but it's not going to fool anyone with any sense.

 

You're just another "If they don't do it my way then I'll work toward harming the game any way I can" type.

 

If you weren't you would have moved on long ago.

 

Nagativity in my posts? Sure, I admit that. I have also stated that there are features about STO and other new MMOs that I believe are positive ones. I view most of your posts as negative as well. The only thing we are really accomplishing is that each one of us is "calling the other kettle black". I will not argue this point with you any longer as we shall never agree on anything. I will avoid your posts, and I ask that you avoid commenting on mine. My posts on these boards are usually a reply to someone else's idea or comments and are not meant as a personal attack on any of the posters here or upon the MMO I am discussing. My reply to you before this was an attack, for I get the impression that you have serious issues with me as a poster on these forums, as you have stated above.

Maybe I had not said it enough before(my fault for sure), so here goes...this is how I view STO:

[b]I think there is a lot RIGHT with STO and I believe it will be a great game. It's just not being designed as I believe it should be. I wish the best for STO and I hope it makes WoW's subscriptions numbers look like a has-been game. I wish for STO a long and successful run and I hope the Players are so happy with it that they will forget about all other games. I wish for STO such huge numbers of Players attempting to log into the servers that the Players crash them at first, and that Cryptic has the money to build better servers that allow everyone to enjoy STO that wants to. [/b]

I am NOT attempting "to paint the game in a bad light"....I am have only been voicing my opinions as to how and why I believe STO should be designed differently than the current development plan. Now is the time to voice my opinions for once the game is released it is too late then.

And you are attempting to do the same, aren't you?

Fare Well Hagonbok, I leave these forums to you and the other Posters. May you have many an excellent discussion about MMOs here.

Gardavil,

Don't let yourself be pushed from the boards. Just take the excellent advice that ozmono gave me... just ignore him. It's not worth the effort.

There are alot of folks here that get EXACTLY what you are saying. Frankly I like both the combat/achiever and social/rp aspect of MMO's. Feel the same way about P-N-P RPG's (not surprising since those are the two big player populations for those).  Bottom line is that these type of games attract alot of different types of players.... not surprising there, people are different. However very often games do try to be too many things to too many different people and fail because of it. In that sense, I suppose it is a wise choice to narrow their focus...... just a very weird decision for a Star Trek genre game to choose to focus on the combat/achiever aspect.... seems to go against the grain of what the series was about.  I could see that for the Warhammer genre...natural evolution  from the table-top minitures game.

Also kinda odd that so many MMO's seem to emphasize the combat/achiever style when they are actualy comparatively poor at being able to deliver that (at least the combat/strategy portion of it). I haven't seen an MMO that could hold a candle to the combat experience delivered by something like the Battlefield series ( although WWII online isn't terrible for that).... or that strategy of PBEM wargames like Combat Mission, Advanced Tactics, etc.

Those are the type of games I goto when I'm looking to satisfy a combat/strategy fix. The combat/strategy aspects of MMO's are mind-numbingly simple and often downright "gamey" in that regards. I'm surprised they don't try to emphasize the social/rp aspects more....since that's one experience that they could deliver better then other types of games.

Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

 

Gardavil,

Don't let yourself be pushed from the boards. Just take the excellent advice that ozmono gave me... just ignore him. It's not worth the effort.

There are alot of folks here that get EXACTLY what you are saying. Frankly I like both the combat/achiever and social/rp aspect of MMO's. Feel the same way about P-N-P RPG's (not surprising since those are the two big player populations for those).  Bottom line is that these type of games attract alot of different types of players.... not surprising there, people are different. However very often games do try to be too many things to too many different people and fail because of it. In that sense, I suppose it is a wise choice to narrow their focus...... just a very weird decision for a Star Trek genre game to choose to focus on the combat/achiever aspect.... seems to go against the grain of what the series was about.  I could see that for the Warhammer genre...natural evolution  from the table-top minitures game.

Also kinda odd that so many MMO's seem to emphasize the combat/achiever style when they are actualy comparatively poor at being able to deliver that (at least the combat/strategy portion of it). I haven't seen an MMO that could hold a candle to the combat experience delivered by something like the Battlefield series ( although WWII online isn't terrible for that).... or that strategy of PBEM wargames like Combat Mission, Advanced Tactics, etc.

Those are the type of games I goto when I'm looking to satisfy a combat/strategy fix. The combat/strategy aspects of MMO's are mind-numbingly simple and often downright "gamey" in that regards. I'm surprised they don't try to emphasize the social/rp aspects more....since that's one experience that they could deliver better then other types of games.

There we have it folks. The mind set being dealt with here encapsulated. Just ignore those that don't agree with you, or those that don't cave in after being insulted and harangued for holding their viewpoints. No surprise though, since this type of behaviour is seen in almost every forum for every game out there.

The "We want a x themed chat room" crowd pulls this stuff all the time. Post after post of misinformation and wild eyed tirades directed at those that don't agree, and then ignore those that try and offer a glimmer of truth.

GG people. At least your type is always consistent if nothing else.

It doesn't change the facts though. Star Trek Online is going to have ample tools and environments for people to RP with and socialize in, and ship interiors will be added in at a later date.

These arguments that you, Garedavil, and others continue to make are a case of the emporer not wearing any clothes. They have no basis in reality.  Just wild whining because things aren't being done exactly the way you want them done. It's like watching kindergarten children stomping their feet and holding their breath because they didn't get chocolate milk on the day they wanted it.

Originally posted by Gardavil

 

Nagativity in my posts? Sure, I admit that. I have also stated that there are features about STO and other new MMOs that I believe are positive ones. I view most of your posts as negative as well. The only thing we are really accomplishing is that each one of us is "calling the other kettle black". I will not argue this point with you any longer as we shall never agree on anything. I will avoid your posts, and I ask that you avoid commenting on mine. My posts on these boards are usually a reply to someone else's idea or comments and are not meant as a personal attack on any of the posters here or upon the MMO I am discussing. My reply to you before this was an attack, for I get the impression that you have serious issues with me as a poster on these forums, as you have stated above.

Maybe I had not said it enough before(my fault for sure), so here goes...this is how I view STO:

[b]I think there is a lot RIGHT with STO and I believe it will be a great game. It's just not being designed as I believe it should be. I wish the best for STO and I hope it makes WoW's subscriptions numbers look like a has-been game. I wish for STO a long and successful run and I hope the Players are so happy with it that they will forget about all other games. I wish for STO such huge numbers of Players attempting to log into the servers that the Players crash them at first, and that Cryptic has the money to build better servers that allow everyone to enjoy STO that wants to. [/b]

I am NOT attempting "to paint the game in a bad light"....I am have only been voicing my opinions as to how and why I believe STO should be designed differently than the current development plan. Now is the time to voice my opinions for once the game is released it is too late then.

And you are attempting to do the same, aren't you?

Fare Well Hagonbok, I leave these forums to you and the other Posters. May you have many an excellent discussion about MMOs here.

For the record Gardavil, I never considered your posts personal.  You stated your reasons well and I hope you stick around.I don't believe this game will come anywhere near WOW numbers because the IP has never had the mass appeal of a Star Wars or LOTR. If it has around 500k then that would exceed expectations.