No, all this poll shows is that, as usual,  many of relatively very very small number of the "usual suspects" bunch here at mmorpg.com will vote in favour of any feature that looks to turn any of these games into sims populated by people that want glorified chat rooms and away from them being GAMES..  You can tell by many of the comments that some people voting haven't a clue about STO at all. 

Hagon clearly knows better because all eight of his guild members don't care for interiors:

http://bloodofkahless.guildlaunch.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2587953&sid=dc31d26be4a6e74042fe4eb616cd5634&gid=80805

Yeah, right.  Eight.

Well there you go spouting off about things you know little to nothing about.

Maybe you should have used this link bloodofkahless.guildlaunch.com/roster.php, and maybe this one too from our former site www.gamerdna.com/GuildRoster.php (many of our members haven't moved over to our new site yet since they're not following the game's development as closely as the rest of us. They're more interested in playing it when it's relesed)..

That and the thread you linked has absolutely nothing to do with ship interior.

Man you really epitomize "Fail" don't you?

Isn't it funny how since the release of the info that there'd be no interiors and no player crews the hype for the game has gone up here at mmorpg.com? Interesting that.  I mean some of you put so much stock in polls and the like...........

I don't really care about Interiors of ships, outside the bridge, and really all that is fluff.
Ships ran by a PC crew? Another thing that is just fluff.
All that stuff can be added later.

I really think Perpetual folded because they were trying the do this and weren't getting anywhere.

the Away missions and ship combat is enough to get the game started... but have it where you can end conflicts diplomaticly too.
 

In the shows you can do crew interactions, and it be a large part of the show, but in a game, not so much.
 

Originally posted by Thornwolf

 

 

While I appreciate your effort at sarcasm, I really do I live fully in the real world. I do not spend every waking moment on a message board for an unreleased video game trolling, trying to prove my superiority, debating every point even when I do not have a solid leg to stand on. I find your comments above ironic in that sense. In the real world no one cares about your epeen. So stop trying to stroke it here, be a man and take the hit. Your post count doesn't matter, and trying to sell yourself as king of the as yet unreleased Star Trek Online Universe doesn't matter. What does matter is making sense, and being credible in what you say so there is accountability.

In this and other threads you make wild comments basically stating things like MUDs are not the forefathers of MMOs when of course the early MMO developers such as Richard Garriot have said quite contrary and the MOBS in game still bear that name because in muds they were coded and known as Mobile Objects which mob stands for. You might also be interested in learning that MUDS were created and supported by us players and fans of Pen and Paper RPGs after the digital revolution allowed us access to a new form of gaming experience. Wanting to create virtual gaming worlds with thriving economies and ecosystems game out of this very concept.

The name of this site is MMORPG, part of role-playing is existing in a believable fantasy world and that worlds credibility takes a hit when you are locked in by invisible walls unable to act on basic desires like exploring your OWN ship at will.

I am sorry you fail at making even the most basic bit of sense in your arguments all you are is a loud voice. I find it funny you call me a child. A child you see has no way of making a point like "mommy change me I wet myself" except to cry and scram in the loudest voice. It is adults who make their points using $10 words as you call them (sorry to me it is just typing and talking).

That is how it is in the "real world".

 

Yet everything about these games reflects TT RPGs from the basic mechanics on down. You're spouting misinformation . Simple as that. Misinformation trumped up by insecure people trying to justify their play style, and to prop up a false sense of entitlement.

That all the tools necessary for one to fully immerse themselves and play pretend are inherant in having virtual worlds created to inhabit is totally lost on your type. Your deep seated insecurities drive you over the edge to get validation. That would be worthy of some pity, and has been from most developers, but for your type that isn't enough though.

You need to feel you're entitled above all others.

You're not.

Your play style preference is just one of quite a few choices, and less popular than most.

No one is trying to sell themselves as king of anything here. That someone happens to be here that you and your ilk can't drive away and silence like you typically do must be upsetting I imagine, but do you really need to resort to hyperbole and childish antics?

Your rhetoric won't fly here... and these aren't the droids your looking for, you can go about your business. Move along......

I find it to be an enormous shame.

I don't fault Cryptic for it, however. It wasn't part of Perpetual's design, either. The reasoning of both companies for excluding this type of gameplay from their design is sound to me: it doesn't fit into the rest of the experience they're aiming for. The reason I find it a shame is that they made this true the moment they opted for action-oriented gameplay. Obviously then the focus is going to be on ship-to-ship combat and away missions.

I would gladly sacrifice away missions to make the space gameplay take place within ships and stations.

Madness, I know.

Still, I think Cryptic's design has real merit. It is not what I ideally want from a Star Trek game, but I'm nonetheless very interested in their ideas and anxious to try it.

I just wish we could get over this PEW PEW IMA FIRN MA LAZOR mentality that leads to these ADD-friendly designs in the first place.

Alright, Hagon, I'll give you this round.  Still, you are an annoying git.  The big difference between us so far, aside from game design issues and my suspicion I'm not only smarter but better looking than you, is that I'll admit when I'm wrong.  I've spanked you up, down and sideways in the past and you just never get it.  It bounces right off that ridged dome that passes for your noggin' and you keep on going despite the facts.

Got to admire the stamina and ability to ignore reality but, man, it does get old.

Originally posted by OddjobXL

Alright, Hagon, I'll give you this round.  Still, you are an annoying git.  The big difference between us so far, aside from game design issues and my suspicion I'm not only smarter but better looking than you, is that I'll admit when I'm wrong.  I've spanked you up, down and sideways in the past and you just never get it.  It bounces right off that ridged dome that passes for your noggin' and you keep on going despite the facts.

Got to admire the stamina and ability to ignore reality but, man, it does get old.

Clearly you're delusional. Do I need to actually once again shame you into silence by ripping apart your arguments and wild statements like I've done repeatedly here and on the STO forums? You've walked away so bloodied after every single encounter we've had where we are of opposing viewpoints, it's a wonder you have any blood left?

 Your positions on this subject, as well as on player crews, are based on fallacy, thus are fallacies themselves. Whereas I've been able to substantiate every thing I've maintained with cold hard facts and evidence. 

You do know what the word is for doing the same thing over and over when it always has the same negative result  right?

 Nerd rage ftw!

 Personally i prefer to see them in. It has caused me to not follow the game as much as i probably could have. But in the end I will still check it out and see what it looks like.

Originally posted by Bama1267

 Nerd rage ftw!

 

 Personally i prefer to see them in. It has caused me to not follow the game as much as i probably could have. But in the end I will still check it out and see what it looks like.

Yes, that's the saddest part about the whole thing really. All the rage some are showing. Believe it or not there's a couple of people here that have taken up trying to get me banned (they can try all they like, it's not going to happen) over at the STO forums over this issue. That's amazing isn't it? Actually going to that extent because someone holds an opposing position on a subject having to do with a computer game.

Originally posted by Hagonbok

No, all this poll shows is that, as usual,  many of relatively very very small number of the "usual suspects" bunch here at mmorpg.com will vote in favour of any feature that looks to turn any of these games into sims populated by people that want glorified chat rooms and away from them being GAMES..  You can tell by many of the comments that some people voting haven't a clue about STO at all. 

LOL... I usually just ignore you but this post is just to rich in comedy to overlook. Clearly you are right that the members of a MMORPG site that is dedicated to MMORPGs and has nothing else but MMORPG news, game reviews and related content have no idea what would make for a good MMORPG. The people here are fans of the genre... not Star Trek fans. They know what makes for a winning game and what makes a game fail as they have all seen it a hundred times before. Maybe you should think a little before you stick your foot in your mouth like this. Now I'm not saying that Star Trek Online will fail without these features as I don't think anyone truly thinks that but saying that not having an extra feature that would enrich the game for some and possibly broaden the user base will make the game a success is just ludicrous at best. These people here may not have a clue about STO as you claim but they do know MMORPGs very well and know what features sell games and what ones don't... in fact they probably know a great deal more about this genre than you do.

Reply to this post if you like but I will most likely ignore it as I'm sure it will be heavily laden with your usual personal attacks and totally opinionated tripe. [Mod Edit]

Bren

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by Hagonbok

No, all this poll shows is that, as usual,  many of relatively very very small number of the "usual suspects" bunch here at mmorpg.com will vote in favour of any feature that looks to turn any of these games into sims populated by people that want glorified chat rooms and away from them being GAMES..  You can tell by many of the comments that some people voting haven't a clue about STO at all. 

LOL... I usually just ignore you but this post is just to rich in comedy to overlook. Clearly you are right that the members of a MMORPG site that is dedicated to MMORPGs and has nothing else but MMORPG news, game reviews and related content have no idea what would make for a good MMORPG. The people here are fans of the genre... not Star Trek fans. They know what makes for a winning game and what makes a game fail as they have all seen it a hundred times before. Maybe you should think a little before you stick your foot in your mouth like this. Now I'm not saying that Star Trek Online will fail without these features as I don't think anyone truly thinks that but saying that not having an extra feature that would enrich the game for some and possibly broaden the user base will make the game a success is just ludicrous at best. These people here may not have a clue about STO as you claim but they do know MMORPGs very well and know what features sell games and what ones don't... in fact they probably know a great deal more about this genre than you do.

 

Reply to this post if you like but I will most likely ignore it as I'm sure it will be heavily laden with your usual personal attacks and totally opinionated tripe. Thanks again for the laugh, you are if nothing else comedic gold every once in a while.

 

Bren

 

Bren you normally have very inteligent posts and I usually agree with most of what you say. But here I'll disagree with you.

The people who follow this site are very splintered in what they think a MMORPG is. We have the ones that think they must have full loot pvp in order to be a mmorpg, then we have those that think WOW is the ultimate mmorpg. We have the "sandbox" crowd going against the "themepark" crowd., and even in those crowds you have splinter groups that want ceetain aspects but not other aspects. I won't go into detail,cause we have all read the posts about them. If those you speak of know what mmorpg's should be, why don't we have one? Reason, no one here can agrre what a great mmorpg is.

So to say that the people here know what a MMORPG is, really is not correct. We all just know what we would like for ourselves.

As for STO, I myself would like to see player crews with full ship interiors. However I won't complain if it is not in at launch, as long as the majority of what I would like is in the game. So far of what I know it will have most of what I am looking for.

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by Hagonbok

No, all this poll shows is that, as usual,  many of relatively very very small number of the "usual suspects" bunch here at mmorpg.com will vote in favour of any feature that looks to turn any of these games into sims populated by people that want glorified chat rooms and away from them being GAMES..  You can tell by many of the comments that some people voting haven't a clue about STO at all. 

LOL... I usually just ignore you but this post is just to rich in comedy to overlook. Clearly you are right that the members of a MMORPG site that is dedicated to MMORPGs and has nothing else but MMORPG news, game reviews and related content have no idea what would make for a good MMORPG. The people here are fans of the genre... not Star Trek fans. They know what makes for a winning game and what makes a game fail as they have all seen it a hundred times before. Maybe you should think a little before you stick your foot in your mouth like this. Now I'm not saying that Star Trek Online will fail without these features as I don't think anyone truly thinks that but saying that not having an extra feature that would enrich the game for some and possibly broaden the user base will make the game a success is just ludicrous at best. These people here may not have a clue about STO as you claim but they do know MMORPGs very well and know what features sell games and what ones don't... in fact they probably know a great deal more about this genre than you do.

 

Reply to this post if you like but I will most likely ignore it as I'm sure it will be heavily laden with your usual personal attacks and totally opinionated tripe. Thanks again for the laugh, you are if nothing else comedic gold every once in a while.

 

Bren

 

.. and yet, it appears that most of the members of MMORPG.COM have little to no issue with the decision to not have open world interiors. That, and it would also appear that most are reasonable and level headed and aren't campaigning to have the game fail because their particular desires weren't specifically catered to.

By the way, it's pretty hard not to sound insulting to someone such as yourself when your reading comprehension skills are so sub-par, as evidenced in so many posts you make in various sections throughout these forums. Sometimes it's almost sad how you get things mixed up but yet try and come off like you know what you were responding to.

I'll give you the short bus version though, just so you can keep up.

The point that was made was that there is a small sub-group that hang about here that show up whenever an issue of "immersion" or "catering to RPers" pops up in most of the games, and they always have pretty much the same things to say, and will vote in any poll on the side of any issue that they see as supporting their preferred play style.

Thankfully it is as it is in the games. They're essentially an inconsequential number. A tiny group that already has everything they need in most every game that gets released simply due to this genre's nature., but one that wants to be made to feel like they're "special someones".

Originally posted by isolor

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by Hagonbok

No, all this poll shows is that, as usual,  many of relatively very very small number of the "usual suspects" bunch here at mmorpg.com will vote in favour of any feature that looks to turn any of these games into sims populated by people that want glorified chat rooms and away from them being GAMES..  You can tell by many of the comments that some people voting haven't a clue about STO at all. 

LOL... I usually just ignore you but this post is just to rich in comedy to overlook. Clearly you are right that the members of a MMORPG site that is dedicated to MMORPGs and has nothing else but MMORPG news, game reviews and related content have no idea what would make for a good MMORPG. The people here are fans of the genre... not Star Trek fans. They know what makes for a winning game and what makes a game fail as they have all seen it a hundred times before. Maybe you should think a little before you stick your foot in your mouth like this. Now I'm not saying that Star Trek Online will fail without these features as I don't think anyone truly thinks that but saying that not having an extra feature that would enrich the game for some and possibly broaden the user base will make the game a success is just ludicrous at best. These people here may not have a clue about STO as you claim but they do know MMORPGs very well and know what features sell games and what ones don't... in fact they probably know a great deal more about this genre than you do.

 

Reply to this post if you like but I will most likely ignore it as I'm sure it will be heavily laden with your usual personal attacks and totally opinionated tripe. Thanks again for the laugh, you are if nothing else comedic gold every once in a while.

 

Bren

 

 

Bren you normally have very inteligent posts and I usually agree with most of what you say. But here I'll disagree with you.

The people who follow this site are very splintered in what they think a MMORPG is. We have the ones that think they must have full loot pvp in order to be a mmorpg, then we have those that think WOW is the ultimate mmorpg. We have the "sandbox" crowd going against the "themepark" crowd., and even in those crowds you have splinter groups that want ceetain aspects but not other aspects. I won't go into detail,cause we have all read the posts about them. If those you speak of know what mmorpg's should be, why don't we have one? Reason, no one here can agrre what a great mmorpg is.

So to say that the people here know what a MMORPG is, really is not correct. We all just know what we would like for ourselves.

As for STO, I myself would like to see player crews with full ship interiors. However I won't complain if it is not in at launch, as long as the majority of what I would like is in the game. So far of what I know it will have most of what I am looking for.

Yes, I agree that this community is very diverse in what they expect from their MMOs but overall they do agree that less features equals less of a game. Most here would agree that adding features to a game that some would enjoy is always a plus as long as those features are optional. Both ship interiors and player crews would be optional content. Yes people here do tend to disagree on a lot of points but that is what makes this site great. It's the diversity in the community that makes this site a great place to get an overall vibe of what the genre is doing right now and where it should go in the future. When viewing this site you have to be able to "see the forest through the trees" so to speak.

Now I for one have always supported Player Ship interiors as including them would be totally optional content. If you don't want to use them than just don't. It's that simple. They have already stated that they have ship interiors for instanced missions. If this is true it wouldn't be too much of a leap to open them up as an Instance the player can enter whenever they choose to.

I've also been on the fence as far as player crews are concerned. I would like to see them as optional content but only if they are done right and are fun for all that choose to take part. If this can't be achieved as it would be a very hard task to implement them in this way than they shouldn't bother until they can do them properly. One thing that I would hate to see is player crews reduced to a series of "mini games" like in Puzzle Pirates. Everything that each player is doing should have real meaning and contribute to the overall situation. This would be very hard to implement so I can see why the developers are waiting until they can give it their full attention.

Bren

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by isolor

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by Hagonbok

No, all this poll shows is that, as usual,  many of relatively very very small number of the "usual suspects" bunch here at mmorpg.com will vote in favour of any feature that looks to turn any of these games into sims populated by people that want glorified chat rooms and away from them being GAMES..  You can tell by many of the comments that some people voting haven't a clue about STO at all. 

LOL... I usually just ignore you but this post is just to rich in comedy to overlook. Clearly you are right that the members of a MMORPG site that is dedicated to MMORPGs and has nothing else but MMORPG news, game reviews and related content have no idea what would make for a good MMORPG. The people here are fans of the genre... not Star Trek fans. They know what makes for a winning game and what makes a game fail as they have all seen it a hundred times before. Maybe you should think a little before you stick your foot in your mouth like this. Now I'm not saying that Star Trek Online will fail without these features as I don't think anyone truly thinks that but saying that not having an extra feature that would enrich the game for some and possibly broaden the user base will make the game a success is just ludicrous at best. These people here may not have a clue about STO as you claim but they do know MMORPGs very well and know what features sell games and what ones don't... in fact they probably know a great deal more about this genre than you do.

 

Reply to this post if you like but I will most likely ignore it as I'm sure it will be heavily laden with your usual personal attacks and totally opinionated tripe. Thanks again for the laugh, you are if nothing else comedic gold every once in a while.

 

Bren

 

 

Bren you normally have very inteligent posts and I usually agree with most of what you say. But here I'll disagree with you.

The people who follow this site are very splintered in what they think a MMORPG is. We have the ones that think they must have full loot pvp in order to be a mmorpg, then we have those that think WOW is the ultimate mmorpg. We have the "sandbox" crowd going against the "themepark" crowd., and even in those crowds you have splinter groups that want ceetain aspects but not other aspects. I won't go into detail,cause we have all read the posts about them. If those you speak of know what mmorpg's should be, why don't we have one? Reason, no one here can agrre what a great mmorpg is.

So to say that the people here know what a MMORPG is, really is not correct. We all just know what we would like for ourselves.

As for STO, I myself would like to see player crews with full ship interiors. However I won't complain if it is not in at launch, as long as the majority of what I would like is in the game. So far of what I know it will have most of what I am looking for.

Yes, I agree that this community is very diverse in what they expect from their MMOs but overall they do agree that less features equals less of a game. Most here would agree that adding features to a game that some would enjoy is always a plus as long as those features are optional. Both ship interiors and player crews would be optional content. Yes people here do tend to disagree on a lot of points but that is what makes this site great. It's the diversity in the community that makes this site a great place to get an overall vibe of what the genre is doing right now and where it should go in the future. When viewing this site you have to be able to "see the forest through the trees" so to speak.

 

Now I for one have always supported Player Ship interiors as including them would be totally optional content. If you don't want to use them than just don't. It's that simple. They have already stated that they have ship interiors for instanced missions. If this is true it wouldn't be too much of a leap to open them up as an Instance the player can enter whenever they choose to.

 

I've also been on the fence as far as player crews are concerned. I would like to see them as optional content but only if they are done right and are fun for all that choose to take part. If this can't be achieved as it would be a very hard task to implement them in this way than they shouldn't bother until they can do them properly. One thing that I would hate to see is player crews reduced to a series of "mini games" like in Puzzle Pirates. Everything that each player is doing should have real meaning and contribute to the overall situation. This would be very hard to implement so I can see why the developers are waiting until they can give it their full attention.

 

Bren

I really hate having these multi quotes going, but have not figured out how to select what I want only.

Anyways, Here I agree with you. Most here do want more in their mmorpgs.

As for player crews, like i said, I would like them, but they would need to be entertaining and meaning full. Right now I can't see what could be done for them to be both. I'll take the captain as the main example. What does the captain do aboard ship that would be fun and meaningful? "Helm set course to Risa, warp factor 2, engage" , well that was fun what next? I really don't know. The captain gives orders, and thinks up tactics for battles. But in an mmorpg is that fun? I don't know. What kind of mini games can be made for the captain and crew? Again I don't know.

If player crews are in at any point, they will need to keep the players happy by having things ot do, or what will happen is everyone will just go back to their own ship and play the way is being launched now. With out player crews.

Originally posted by Hagonbok

Well there you go spouting off about things you know little to nothing about.

Maybe you should have used this link bloodofkahless.guildlaunch.com/roster.php, and maybe this one too from our former site www.gamerdna.com/GuildRoster.php (many of our members haven't moved over to our new site yet since they're not following the game's development as closely as the rest of us. They're more interested in playing it when it's relesed)..

 

That and the thread you linked has absolutely nothing to do with ship interior.

 

Man you really epitomize "Fail" don't you?

 

Isn't it funny how since the release of the info that there'd be no interiors and no player crews the hype for the game has gone up here at mmorpg.com? Interesting that.  I mean some of you put so much stock in polls and the like...........

You sound like the type that needs a big epeen because he doesn't have anything like that IRL.

Originally posted by Hagonbok

.. and yet, it appears that most of the members of MMORPG.COM have little to no issue with the decision to not have open world interiors. That, and it would also appear that most are reasonable and level headed and aren't campaigning to have the game fail because their particular desires weren't specifically catered to.

 

By the way, it's pretty hard not to sound insulting to someone such as yourself when your reading comprehension skills are so sub-par, as evidenced in so many posts you make in various sections throughout these forums. Sometimes it's almost sad how you get things mixed up but yet try and come off like you know what you were responding to.

 

I'll give you the short bus version though, just so you can keep up.

 

The point that was made was that there is a small sub-group that hang about here that show up whenever an issue of "immersion" or "catering to RPers" pops up in most of the games, and they always have pretty much the same things to say, and will vote in any poll on the side of any issue that they see as supporting their preferred play style.

 

Thankfully it is as it is in the games. They're essentially an inconsequential number. A tiny group that already has everything they need in most every game that gets released simply due to this genre's nature., but one that wants to be made to feel like they're "special someones".

 

Yeah, like I said Personal attacks and totally opinionated tripe... At least you're consistent and predictable.

Bren

You people just hate on. That's ok. It must be tough tough knowing you're wrong yet still carrying on beating a dead horse. I understand that you obviously need to vent at someone or something.  My little kids do that all the time too.  When you grow up you'll not feel that need as much.

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by Hagonbok

.. and yet, it appears that most of the members of MMORPG.COM have little to no issue with the decision to not have open world interiors. That, and it would also appear that most are reasonable and level headed and aren't campaigning to have the game fail because their particular desires weren't specifically catered to.

 

By the way, it's pretty hard not to sound insulting to someone such as yourself when your reading comprehension skills are so sub-par, as evidenced in so many posts you make in various sections throughout these forums. Sometimes it's almost sad how you get things mixed up but yet try and come off like you know what you were responding to.

 

I'll give you the short bus version though, just so you can keep up.

 

The point that was made was that there is a small sub-group that hang about here that show up whenever an issue of "immersion" or "catering to RPers" pops up in most of the games, and they always have pretty much the same things to say, and will vote in any poll on the side of any issue that they see as supporting their preferred play style.

 

Thankfully it is as it is in the games. They're essentially an inconsequential number. A tiny group that already has everything they need in most every game that gets released simply due to this genre's nature., but one that wants to be made to feel like they're "special someones".

 

Yeah, like I said Personal attacks and totally opinionated tripe... At least you're consistent and predictable.

 

Bren

This is your typical M.O.. You wade into discussions spewing insults and such, then try and flip it around that it's the other person doing it.  You're as transparent as a pane of glass mate. Go back to troll somewhere else.

Originally posted by Hagonbok

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by Hagonbok

.. and yet, it appears that most of the members of MMORPG.COM have little to no issue with the decision to not have open world interiors. That, and it would also appear that most are reasonable and level headed and aren't campaigning to have the game fail because their particular desires weren't specifically catered to.

 

By the way, it's pretty hard not to sound insulting to someone such as yourself when your reading comprehension skills are so sub-par, as evidenced in so many posts you make in various sections throughout these forums. Sometimes it's almost sad how you get things mixed up but yet try and come off like you know what you were responding to.

 

I'll give you the short bus version though, just so you can keep up.

 

The point that was made was that there is a small sub-group that hang about here that show up whenever an issue of "immersion" or "catering to RPers" pops up in most of the games, and they always have pretty much the same things to say, and will vote in any poll on the side of any issue that they see as supporting their preferred play style.

 

Thankfully it is as it is in the games. They're essentially an inconsequential number. A tiny group that already has everything they need in most every game that gets released simply due to this genre's nature., but one that wants to be made to feel like they're "special someones".

 

Yeah, like I said Personal attacks and totally opinionated tripe... At least you're consistent and predictable.

 

Bren

This is your typical M.O.. You wade into discussions spewing insults and such, then try and flip it around that it's the other person doing it.  You're as transparent as a pane of glass mate. Go back to troll somewhere else.

You need to go back and reread what I wrote "mate". I never once insulted you personally I only stated some things about your post content. You on the other hand spew personal insults left and right in almost every post you make. If anything I'm more of a mirror where you're concerned. You look at me and see yourself. We are the one's that only hate and need to grow up? Like I said... a mirror and not a pane of glass at all. Even in the post you quoted above I stated what your post contains and not a thing about you personally. You on the other hand took it as an opening to throw some more personal attacks at me. Now who's the one trolling here? This is the exact reason why most here don't take what you write very seriously.

Bren

Edit: Oh well, this is starting to derail this thread and if we continue it will get locked so this is the last post I'll make as I know you and you'll just keep going even if you're losing. Have a great day Hagonbok.