Robertb, I'm still waiting for you to make even a halfway decent comparison between EVE and DF.  You can't do it.

EVE is a real sandbox game, DF is counterstrike with guilds in a persistent world.   I understand its your kind of game, but please, you really do CCP an injustice if you compare their masterpiece with DF.

EVE = Real Sandbox MMO developed by a reputable company.

DF = A garage developed FPS pretending to be a MMO. 

It's pretty simple, and asking anyone who enjoys playing EVE to try darkfall, would be like asking a 5 star executive chef to be a line cook at the shitty local diner.  It's just wrong.

Originally posted by Crackbone

Robertb, I'm still waiting for you to make even a halfway decent comparison between EVE and DF.  You can't do it.

EVE is a real sandbox game, DF is counterstrike with guilds in a persistent world.   I understand its your kind of game, but please, you really do CCP an injustice if you compare their masterpiece with DF.

EVE = Real Sandbox MMO developed by a reputable company.

DF = A garage developed FPS pretending to be a MMO. 

It's pretty simple, and asking anyone who enjoys playing EVE to try darkfall, would be like asking a 5 star executive chef to be a line cook at the shitty local diner.  It's just wrong.

I am sorry, but I play both games and completely disagree with you.

Nice copout.

I think an army ant and a Australian Sheep Dog are the same.  -----

Now anyone that knows a shit can quickly tell me how I am wrong.  You can't even do that.  Robertb, you fail, and fail massively.

EVE is like DF because I like it... LOL.  Go back to shilling somewhere else where you can get by with your asinine arguments and lack of concrete fact.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Yes

we badass, we are the evil wolf and others are little red riding hood..we digest any troll and his jabber for breakfast..

 

You know, when the story ended, Red Riding Hood was alive and the Big Bad Wolf was a fur coat.

You might want to model yourself after someone who WASN'T a loser.

Granted, this would be an invalid self image.

Originally posted by Crackbone

Nice copout.

I think an army ant and a Australian Sheep Dog are the same.  -----

Now anyone that knows a shit can quickly tell me how I am wrong.  You can't even do that.  Robertb, you fail, and fail massively.

EVE is like DF because I like it... LOL.  Go back to shilling somewhere else where you can get by with your asinine arguments and lack of concrete fact.

lol

Regardless of what I post, you will not agree with me so why should I waste my time. I have told you that I play EVE. I have also told you that I play Darkfall. I have said that if you like EVE and you also like fantasy MMO's that you will likely like Darkfall.

I have no doubt, based on playing both these games, that this is very likely to be the case.

Anyway, just for s&g's, here are some similarities:

Massive group play

Skill based system

Significant  Player based Politics with Conquest

Meaningful crafting system

Meaningful gathering system

Trading

Risk versus Reward PvP system

PVE is a resource

Some differences:

dwarfs versus spaceships

No real version of empire space in Darkfall (pretty much a huge losec with limited nulsec, being the clan cities)

No stations, so no safe zones, when you are in game, you can be attacked, even traders

Towers are not a strong as CONCORD

It is quite a bit harder to carebear in Darkfall, then it is in EVE, though not impossible

Darkfall is, as a result, a bit of a harsher experience.

Those are some basic similarities and dissimilarites. There are others, but I hope this gives you an idea of what I meant.

As you can see, core wise, the games are very similar, as they are both sandbox games with player driven content, where PVE is more of a resource than a focal point of the game, (most Darkfall PVE is very similar to EVE missions, or null-sec ratting).

Originally posted by Valetman

Originally posted by robertb

Actually crafters/merchants type players can flourish in Darkfall. Especially when they are part of a large clan that has a developed city.

 

 

you dont think the fact there isnt a trade system in the game hinders that style of play?

 

Even a little bit?

 

Already the tactic is to get someone to trade in person (the only possible way to trade in game) , and naked gank the guy with half a dozen friends, then one other friend who doesnt hit loots the corpse to get the goods for free, whilst the rest die to the towers.

 

Now, that itself wouldnt be a major problem, its how the game is designed, but again the mechanics dont really help, for instance, looting a blue corpse alone should send you red, thus giving the dead guys friends a chance to get his stuff back (if applicable) , but it doesnt.

 

but more than that, how many times will that happen before these trader merchant style players give up, given that the game has no way around the issue at all, and no other mechanic for trading goods?

 

In a game like darkfall people accept they could get killed whilst harvesting, which given that harvesting consists of staring at a single spot clicking your mouse every 11 seconds is probably just as well, without that sense of exceitement its just a cure for insomnea, but  after going through that to collect materials and made some goods, to have to ride through being ripped off in town every other trade or so the game isnt challenging, it  crosses the line into rediculous, because the game mechanics are all weighted to the gankers favour.

The game itself makes a playstyle other than large guild zerg raiding an excersise in futility.

 

If they want  a player ran economy, they have to have some form of trading system.

Im quoting myself here, because Robert again suggests that trading is similar to Eve and a viable playstyle, whilst ignoring the above real, in game problems I pointed out.

---

Originally posted by robertb

---

Originally posted by Crackbone

Nice copout.
I think an army ant and a Australian Sheep Dog are the same.  -----
Now anyone that knows a shit can quickly tell me how I am wrong.  You can't even do that.  Robertb, you fail, and fail massively.
EVE is like DF because I like it... LOL.  Go back to shilling somewhere else where you can get by with your asinine arguments and lack of concrete fact.

---

 
lol
 
Regardless of what I post, you will not agree with me so why should I waste my time. I have told you that I play EVE. I have also told you that I play Darkfall. I have said that if you like EVE and you also like fantasy MMO's that you will likely like Darkfall.
I have no doubt, based on playing both these games, that this is very likely to be the case.
 
Anyway, just for s&g's, here are some similarities:
Massive group play
Skill based system
Significant  Player based Politics with Conquest
Meaningful crafting system
Meaningful gathering system
Trading
Risk versus Reward PvP system
PVE is a resource
 
Some differences:
dwarfs versus spaceships
No real version of empire space in Darkfall (pretty much a huge losec with limited nulsec, being the clan cities)
No stations, so no safe zones, when you are in game, you can be attacked, even traders
Towers are not a strong as CONCORD
It is quite a bit harder to carebear in Darkfall, then it is in EVE, though not impossible
Darkfall is, as a result, a bit of a harsher experience.
 
Those are some basic similarities and dissimilarites. There are others, but I hope this gives you an idea of what I meant.
As you can see, core wise, the games are very similar, as they are both sandbox games with player driven content, where PVE is more of a resource than a focal point of the game, (most Darkfall PVE is very similar to EVE missions, or null-sec ratting).
 
 
 
 
 

---

Ah, ok, now we have something to talk about.

Crafting? This can't even be compared, and you know it. Depth comes to mind, or lackthereof.
Massive group play - Relative definition, however, I'll let this slide due to the fact AV can't network code to save their lives.
Skill based system - No, macro based system. Call a spade a spade.
Significant Player based Politics with Conquest - Sure, so does Risk.
Trading - Again, i refer you to the above with reference to crafting.
Risk versus Reward PvP system - What reward?
PVE is a resource - I'll let this one slide as well.

There's one defining thing that's missing from all of these comparisons. Depth. It's what makes a sandbox a winner or a loser. I'm a sandbox MMO guy, I love them.

Interconnectivity between the crafting and a rich and deep player driven marketplaces are essential for sandboxes to thrive. The market should be the driving factor for the rest of the game. PvP, politics, etc, is all based on a functioning and robust economy. DF has none of this. This is one major underlying problem.

Additionally, CCPs approach to skill based advancement is leagues beyond what AV has here, and do you know why? You can't game the system. You can't macro your way into a higher skillset. This is quite disheartening alone, but add to it the fact that AV doesn't seem to have the resources nor the will to stop this kind of behavior, is the nail in the coffin.

Lastly, I'll close by saying that AV has a framework of a game that has significant design deficiencies. DF is a game that needs roughly 50% more work done until it even comes close to the definition of Sandbox. Sandbox is deep by nature, and DF is not. I'm a fan of player generated content, but with no content to partake in at the outset, AV gives you nothing to put the sand in, nor do they give you enough sand to fill the box.

All in all, DF is @ best a mirage of a sandbox. At worst, its a fundamental design failure and is in no way similiar to EVE when you strip off the window dressing.

Originally posted by Crackbone

 

---

Originally posted by robertb

---

Originally posted by Crackbone

 

Nice copout.
I think an army ant and a Australian Sheep Dog are the same.  -----
Now anyone that knows a shit can quickly tell me how I am wrong.  You can't even do that.  Robertb, you fail, and fail massively.
EVE is like DF because I like it... LOL.  Go back to shilling somewhere else where you can get by with your asinine arguments and lack of concrete fact.

---

 
lol
 
Regardless of what I post, you will not agree with me so why should I waste my time. I have told you that I play EVE. I have also told you that I play Darkfall. I have said that if you like EVE and you also like fantasy MMO's that you will likely like Darkfall.
I have no doubt, based on playing both these games, that this is very likely to be the case.
 
Anyway, just for s&g's, here are some similarities:
Massive group play
Skill based system
Significant  Player based Politics with Conquest
Meaningful crafting system
Meaningful gathering system
Trading
Risk versus Reward PvP system
PVE is a resource
 
Some differences:
dwarfs versus spaceships
No real version of empire space in Darkfall (pretty much a huge losec with limited nulsec, being the clan cities)
No stations, so no safe zones, when you are in game, you can be attacked, even traders
Towers are not a strong as CONCORD
It is quite a bit harder to carebear in Darkfall, then it is in EVE, though not impossible
Darkfall is, as a result, a bit of a harsher experience.
 
Those are some basic similarities and dissimilarites. There are others, but I hope this gives you an idea of what I meant.
As you can see, core wise, the games are very similar, as they are both sandbox games with player driven content, where PVE is more of a resource than a focal point of the game, (most Darkfall PVE is very similar to EVE missions, or null-sec ratting).
 
 
 
 
 

---

 

Ah, ok, now we have something to talk about.

Crafting? This can't even be compared, and you know it. Depth comes to mind, or lackthereof.

In what way, specifically?

Massive group play - Relative definition, however, I'll let this slide due to the fact AV can't network code to save their lives.

Your opinion, my zerg experiences may beg to differ.

Skill based system - No, macro based system. Call a spade a spade.

Your opinion, my non-macroing playstyle begs to differ

Significant Player based Politics with Conquest - Sure, so does Risk.

? Do not understand your answer. 

Trading - Again, i refer you to the above with reference to crafting.

Your opinion, my ingame experience begs to differ.

Risk versus Reward PvP system - What reward?

You are really stretching now, this is amusing...

PVE is a resource - I'll let this one slide as well.

There's one defining thing that's missing from all of these comparisons. Depth. It's what makes a sandbox a winner or a loser. I'm a sandbox MMO guy, I love them.

Your opinion. Players and history are what makes depth in a sandbox. Try to remember what EVE was in '04...

 

Interconnectivity between the crafting and a rich and deep player driven marketplaces are essential for sandboxes to thrive. The market should be the driving factor for the rest of the game. PvP, politics, etc, is all based on a functioning and robust economy. DF has none of this. This is one major underlying problem.

You have no idea what you are talking about and as a result you simply look like you are flailing away...

 

Additionally, CCPs approach to skill based advancement is leagues beyond what AV has here, and do you know why? You can't game the system. You can't macro your way into a higher skillset. This is quite disheartening alone, but add to it the fact that AV doesn't seem to have the resources nor the will to stop this kind of behavior, is the nail in the coffin.

One can macro and bot a lot of things in EVE, please... The skill system in EVE is simply a function of time and as such is what it is.

 

Lastly, I'll close by saying that AV has a framework of a game that has significant design deficiencies. DF is a game that needs roughly 50% more work done until it even comes close to the definition of Sandbox. Sandbox is deep by nature, and DF is not. I'm a fan of player generated content, but with no content to partake in at the outset, AV gives you nothing to put the sand in, nor do they give you enough sand to fill the box.

Once again, your opinion, but seeing the preceding responses you have given, I really don't think that yours carry much, if any, weight at all.

 

All in all, DF is @ best a mirage of a sandbox. At worst, its a fundamental design failure and is in no way similiar to EVE when you strip off the window dressing.

 

lol

Daily quiz time.

Monday-"It's the best game I've ever played"

Tuesday-"No matter what you say it's still the best game I've ever played."

Wednesday-"That I can agree with, but it s still the best game on the market right now"

Thursday-"Source?? Anyways it s still the most fun I've ever had in a MMO"

Etc etc etc.

Who is this?? Ok it s an easy one. For some odd reason this person, instead of playing his beloved game, is on these forums more then in game defending it with the same repetitive dribble.

Originally posted by Leucent

Daily quiz time.

Monday-"It's the best game I've ever played"

Tuesday-"No matter what you say it's still the best game I've ever played."

Wednesday-"That I can agree with, but it s still the best game on the market right now"

Thursday-"Source?? Anyways it s still the most fun I've ever had in a MMO"

Etc etc etc.

Who is this?? Ok it s an easy one. For some odd reason this person, instead of playing his beloved game, is on these forums more then in game defending it with the same repetitive dribble.

Nah, just posting from work. Sorry... 

Ugh, just looked back in this thread. You re comparing DF to EVE. what a waste of peoples time trying to compare these. You play both and say they re similar just different settings. If I wanted to, I could say that about anything. You just want DF to be like EVE in a fantasy setting so badly, you re convinced they are. Which they aren t.

Originally posted by Leucent

Ugh, just looked back in this thread. You re comparing DF to EVE. what a waste of peoples time trying to compare these. You play both and say they re similar just different settings. If I wanted to, I could say that about anything. You just want DF to be like EVE in a fantasy setting so badly, you re convinced they are. Which they aren t.

you're right. 

Darkfall is much more exciting.

Originally posted by robertb

Originally posted by Crackbone

 

 

Your opinion, my zerg experiences may beg to differ.

Your opinion, my non-macroing playstyle begs to differ

Your opinion, my ingame experience begs to differ.

  

 

Reality check. Despite your "chivalric" playstyle, following the letter of the law, MOST players will flock to whatever advances them in the game the fastest and makes them the best.
 

Get real, a LOT of players macro. Lot being relative to of course, the one server.

Originally posted by Andurin

Why we love this game.

 

It just isn't possible for certain types of gamers to understand how a game like this is the pinnacle of gaming for some of us.  Did the carebears understand why we loved pre-trammel UO so much?  Of course not, and they never will.  We might as well quit trying, most people are going to think that Darkfall sucks and I for one have quit trying to make them understand and just be content that I have a game that brought back the feelings that pre-trammel UO did.  

 

Hate it on all you want,  I'm going to continue to love it.

As someone who loved Pre Trammel UO the game your playing is nothing at all like it.  Infact its way way worse.   In UO The average adventuerer could run around solo and didn't just die every 3 seconds, you stood a fighting chance.  People actually roleplayed in that game and it wasn't just one big gankfest.

Maybe your memories have faded or maybe you never actually were there.

Originally posted by Benthon

Originally posted by robertb

Originally posted by Crackbone

 

 

Your opinion, my zerg experiences may beg to differ.

Your opinion, my non-macroing playstyle begs to differ

Your opinion, my ingame experience begs to differ.

  

 

Reality check. Despite your "chivalric" playstyle, following the letter of the law, MOST players will flock to whatever advances them in the game the fastest and makes them the best.
 

Get real, a LOT of players macro. Lot being relative to of course, the one server.

Indeed, though one does not have to be a scumbag to dirtnap these guys. Such is the nature of FPS style combat, I suppose...

Originally posted by Leucent

Ugh, just looked back in this thread. You re comparing DF to EVE. what a waste of peoples time trying to compare these. You play both and say they re similar just different settings. If I wanted to, I could say that about anything. You just want DF to be like EVE in a fantasy setting so badly, you re convinced they are. Which they aren t.

Sorry, but your opinion is irrelevant to the reality of my previously stated similarities.

Originally posted by Jerid13

Originally posted by Andurin

Why we love this game.

 

It just isn't possible for certain types of gamers to understand how a game like this is the pinnacle of gaming for some of us.  Did the carebears understand why we loved pre-trammel UO so much?  Of course not, and they never will.  We might as well quit trying, most people are going to think that Darkfall sucks and I for one have quit trying to make them understand and just be content that I have a game that brought back the feelings that pre-trammel UO did.  

 

Hate it on all you want,  I'm going to continue to love it.

 

As someone who loved Pre Trammel UO the game your playing is nothing at all like it.  Infact its way way worse.   In UO The average adventuerer could run around solo and didn't just die every 3 seconds, you stood a fighting chance.  People actually roleplayed in that game and it wasn't just one big gankfest.

Maybe your memories have faded or maybe you never actually were there.

? 

I run around quite a lot solo and do not die every 3 seconds. I do not find Darkfall to be anymore of a gankfest than most of the other PVP games I have played.

Originally posted by robertb

Originally posted by Jerid13

Originally posted by Andurin

Why we love this game.

 

It just isn't possible for certain types of gamers to understand how a game like this is the pinnacle of gaming for some of us.  Did the carebears understand why we loved pre-trammel UO so much?  Of course not, and they never will.  We might as well quit trying, most people are going to think that Darkfall sucks and I for one have quit trying to make them understand and just be content that I have a game that brought back the feelings that pre-trammel UO did.  

 

Hate it on all you want,  I'm going to continue to love it.

 

As someone who loved Pre Trammel UO the game your playing is nothing at all like it.  Infact its way way worse.   In UO The average adventuerer could run around solo and didn't just die every 3 seconds, you stood a fighting chance.  People actually roleplayed in that game and it wasn't just one big gankfest.

Maybe your memories have faded or maybe you never actually were there.

 

? 

 

I run around quite a lot solo and do not die every 3 seconds. I do not find Darkfall to be anymore of a gankfest than most of the other PVP games I have played.

You really aren't saying much since all PvP centric games are gank fests.  Gank or be ganked, that is the answer.

Originally posted by robertb

Originally posted by Jerid13

Originally posted by Andurin

Why we love this game.

 

It just isn't possible for certain types of gamers to understand how a game like this is the pinnacle of gaming for some of us.  Did the carebears understand why we loved pre-trammel UO so much?  Of course not, and they never will.  We might as well quit trying, most people are going to think that Darkfall sucks and I for one have quit trying to make them understand and just be content that I have a game that brought back the feelings that pre-trammel UO did.  

 

Hate it on all you want,  I'm going to continue to love it.

 

As someone who loved Pre Trammel UO the game your playing is nothing at all like it.  Infact its way way worse.   In UO The average adventuerer could run around solo and didn't just die every 3 seconds, you stood a fighting chance.  People actually roleplayed in that game and it wasn't just one big gankfest.

Maybe your memories have faded or maybe you never actually were there.

 

? 

 

I run around quite a lot solo and do not die every 3 seconds. I do not find Darkfall to be anymore of a gankfest than most of the other PVP games I have played.

You must be in the minority, every other post all I read is "My guild just went out and ganked blah blah blah"

I've looked and looked for stories of people soloing or going around and NOT being best pals with a gaint horde of people, cus frankly I play MMO's to play with other people but I don't ALWAYS want to be in a party to do ANYTHING.

Every story I hear is always the same, you solo you die in 5 seconds after you leave your group of pals.

I remember that people were afraid to go red because they'd be hunted down by guilds dedicated to killing murderers.

The mistake darkfall made was having races and factions, It made it so people wouldn't invent their own and would just lazily follow the guidelines.  If Origion did that we'd not have had PKK guilds and Roleplaying communities.

We'd have darkfall

Originally posted by robertb

 

Indeed, though one does not have to be a scumbag to dirtnap these guys. Such is the nature of FPS style combat, I suppose...

So you dirtnap them. And they come back, so you dirtnap them again, and they come back. How many days at a time can you stay awake to battle versus the macro'ers in your divine reconquista of Darkfall?

The answer: It shouldn't be your job to do anything. AV should've either A. Made the game more fun so people wouldn't macro, or B. Create countermeasures.

I understand how much you enjoy the game, that's great. But the developer's don't have a chance.