I'm a PvPer at heart.  I live for PvP, while questing with friends and finding new items can be fun, for me nothing beats the feeling you get when you win a tough battle.  And I'm not talking about a battle ground or anything of that sort.  I actually don't even find that sort of Arena based action any fun.  To me being out in the world doing quests but at the same time knowing that at any moment you can walk into an enemy player is what makes MMORPGs fun, and interesting.

When I first started playing UO many years ago, I was in Brit by the bank standing there naked, just getting used to the interface.  Well a portal opens up and someone runs through and says "Cmon follow me!" So I followed.

To my surprise there were around 5-6 red names surrounding me.  Next thing I see is "Kal Vas Flam" (which is flamestrike),  They weren't complete asses though, they resurrected me and actually took me under their wing. 

I'm a die-hard PvP player, I love it. If I get ganked at lower levels, that's ok, I'll get better.  Then it feels, oh so rewarding when I do.

=)

Ganking is fine, especially in faction based games where the opposing faction is 'supposed' to be Kill On Sight. Corpse camping is another story though.

Humans essentially never kill for no reason whatsoever, especially not in groups. There is always a reason. Anyway, I think the answer depends on the type of server you are on. Faction based PvP games I think it's entirely justifiable in RPing, but in FFA PVP servers I do not think you can make the "rp" argument for your such actions.

I've seen two types of pvp going on in Neocron for instance.  One is where you'll see teams of different factions battling it out in the city.  However there's another one that's sort of dispicable, wherein some high level guy is camping a teleporter, awaiting for noobs to appear, and who will because the area is full of mobs that drop rare techs and such.  I'd say "Campers" of that nature are the lowest form of pond-scum.

Ganking is only fair when the ganker is risking something himself..  He may be able to drop you in a second, but you should have a chance to find him and fight him one on one or ten on one to get revenge.  Most modern MMOs don't have a required set of time you must stay logged in after you've killed someone and also have no search player feature that allows for hunting someone down.

Back in the day, I played a UO type game where killing someone meant you were stuck in the game for the next 10 mins.  And there was a spell 'Find Person' that could tell you simple cardinal directions of where a person is, but with a "very far" "far" or no adjective which says roughly home many screens worth distance they are from you.  This allowed for the ganker to be put on an actual KoS list, you could hunt them down while they were alone or with friends.  Still, by killing someone in the form of ganking, you could easily get killed back at some point.

Originally posted by lugal

People need to stop blaming others for actions they facilitated.

"She was wearing a short skirt; therefore she invited being raped.  She should lie back and enjoy it"

This is lugal's argument in a nutshell.

No. Because this is about meaningless games that don't do physical harm to anyone. Stop making all these pathetic Dr. Phil wannabe real life comparsions. It's a game. Don't like what's happening LOG OUT.

"It's just a game" is a great way for cowardly sociopaths to skirt the issue of their sociopathy.

Originally posted by Forumfall

No. Because this is about meaningless games that don't do physical harm to anyone. Stop making all these pathetic Dr. Phil wannabe real life comparsions. It's a game. Don't like what's happening LOG OUT.

Games are played by people, though. And I log in to have fun doing PvE and PvP, not to spend a frustrated 30 minutes trying to get from a to b without getting killed by some bored asshole i can't put a dent in.

And for all of you who tell me (and others) to gtfo the PvP server: If you equate PvP with ganking then you haven't even understood the premise of this discussion!

Originally posted by orionite

Originally posted by Forumfall

No. Because this is about meaningless games that don't do physical harm to anyone. Stop making all these pathetic Dr. Phil wannabe real life comparsions. It's a game. Don't like what's happening LOG OUT.

Games are played by people, though. And I log in to have fun doing PvE and PvP, not to spend a frustrated 30 minutes trying to get from a to b without getting killed by some bored asshole i can't put a dent in.

And for all of you who tell me (and others) to gtfo the PvP server: If you equate PvP with ganking then you haven't even understood the premise of this discussion!

 

Your point is a 100% moot. It doesn't matter if games are played by real life people. You cannot compare what happens in a game to what happens in real life. Are you trying to say if i kill somebody in a game I'm just as likely to want to do the same in real life? No you and i both know that is an idiotic notion so i second that motion about this having NOTHING to do with real life. Real people..NOT real life situations or real life personalities. I have been in RP guilds that were hating on dwarfs for an ancient dispute. We only went after dwarfs. Does that mean i hate dwarfs in real life? Again an idiotic notion.

You can RP a hardcore pvper. Infact many has. Just because there are people out there that just gank randomly with no purpose doesn't exlude those that has one in the sake of RP.

As i have already explained. If you play in a PvP based game with 4 factions lets say elves/humans/midgets/trolls. If i and a big group of other people from out own faction set up a guild and follow the lore why these 4 races are at war and hunt down the other 3 factions..That is essential RP'ing. The fact that a human is grouping with a troll and a midget can be seeing as being a traitor to their own kind and up for punishment. That punishment could be screwing up them sucking on the exp titty enjoying their PvE fun.

Now if you were one of those cross teamers like we used to call them back in the old EQ days i can understand why you would call somebody like me a doucebag that ruined your day of PvE fun.. doesn't change the fact you should have rolled non PvP if you can't hande being attacked.

The real doucebags are the PvE'ers that join PvP servers expecting to be left alone and only engaged in combat at their own leisure. Then when they think it's time to leave their exp tit, they want pvp to be a consesual duel. You need to have the same level of equipment. It has to be 1vs1 unless you are with a friend. In that case the pvp'er can also bring a friend. Then you bow and yell GO!! when everybody is ready to partake in this little PvP event. I'm sorry but this has nothing to do with real PvP. If you want that type of game then play WoW..You can roll a non pvp server and still do battle grounds. GTFO out of my free for all pvp game

No the only people that says you can't RP a hardcore PvP'er are the ones that can't handle being surprise attacked. The adrenaline rush they get is too much for them making them cuss and swear calling you an ahole.

I say yes because, if you're a bandit you wait in the bushes and attack whoever  walks by. No rhyme or reason, just doing what thiefs do.   Now ganking the same person over and over again on purpose would be to much.   When Im out and about and I see the opposing faction I'll kill at first sight. I do that because most likely thats what they are thinking.

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Originally posted by Abrahmm
Sure it can. Me and a buddy used to go gank newbies all the time in an effort to piss someone off enough that they would rally other high levels to come fight us, simply because BG's/Arenas were boring and we wanted world PvP, and this was the most realistic way.
EDIT: Just realized you said with RP, which I don't know because I don't RP.

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Originally posted by cukimunga

I say yes because, if you're a bandit you wait in the bushes and attack whoever  walks by. No rhyme or reason, just doing what thiefs do.   Now ganking the same person over and over again on purpose would be to much.   When Im out and about and I see the opposing faction I'll kill at first sight. I do that because most likely thats what they are thinking.

The funny part is though. These people complaining about being killed over and over again by the same person, most likely said something back to him/her calling them names etc then wonder why they suddenty get singled out and hunted again and again. Seen it too often. "You prick get a life" and then they get what we call 'camped'. Maybe you should have kept your filthy mouth shut the first time around.

PvP sounds fun initially for a lot of people until they face an actual PvP'er. The kneejerk reaction of getting slaughtered and feeling a little adrenaline is too much for some. That's why we see random name calling and people crying on forums

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Originally posted by Fibsdk

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Originally posted by cukimunga

I say yes because, if you're a bandit you wait in the bushes and attack whoever  walks by. No rhyme or reason, just doing what thiefs do.   Now ganking the same person over and over again on purpose would be to much.   When Im out and about and I see the opposing faction I'll kill at first sight. I do that because most likely thats what they are thinking.

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The funny part is though. These people complaining about being killed over and over again by the same person, most likely said something back to him/her calling them names etc then wonder why they suddenty get singled out and hunted again and again. Seen it too often. "You prick get a life" and then they get what we call 'camped'. Maybe you should have kept your filthy mouth shut the first time around.
 
PvP sounds fun initially for a lot of people until they face an actual PvP'er. The kneejerk reaction of getting slaughtered and feeling a little adrenaline is too much for some. That's why we see random name calling and people crying on forums

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To me this is a systemaic problem in PvP MMOs.  People want their PvP to have meaning (just as they want their PvE, RP or crafting to have meaning).  Developers have been getting better at developing this on the group level with RvR, city sieges, capturable territory, etc.  However, on an individual level any PvP fight that is not part of group PvP usually has little to no meaning to the participants.  Whether you get ganked or gank yourself the fights don't carry any weight and when it happens over and over lose any meaning.   There is no skill challenge and the outcome of the fight does not have any effect on the game world.  The only way to inject any meaning into the fight is to make it personal.  Since the ganker does not have a real in-game reason for attacking that leaves only an out-of-game reason which makes it an out-of-game insult.

This is actually why I think player-loot PvP games are better at this since there is always some meaning to any gank.  It's easier to accept that "'it's not personal, just business".

Originally posted by Fibsdk

Originally posted by orionite

Originally posted by Forumfall

No. Because this is about meaningless games that don't do physical harm to anyone. Stop making all these pathetic Dr. Phil wannabe real life comparsions. It's a game. Don't like what's happening LOG OUT.

Games are played by people, though. And I log in to have fun doing PvE and PvP, not to spend a frustrated 30 minutes trying to get from a to b without getting killed by some bored asshole i can't put a dent in.

And for all of you who tell me (and others) to gtfo the PvP server: If you equate PvP with ganking then you haven't even understood the premise of this discussion!

Your point is a 100% moot. It doesn't matter if games are played by real life people. You cannot compare what happens in a game to what happens in real life. Are you trying to say if i kill somebody in a game I'm just as likely to want to do the same in real life? No you and i both know that is an idiotic notion so i second that motion about this having NOTHING to do with real life. Real people..NOT real life situations or real life personalities. I have been in RP guilds that were hating on dwarfs for an ancient dispute. We only went after dwarfs. Does that mean i hate dwarfs in real life? Again an idiotic notion.

Are you being purposefully obtuse?! I never said or meant any of the things you have listed. My point is that if you kill someone in game repeatedly and without that person having any chance to defend him/-herself that it is not the ingame character that is frustrated but the person at the keyboard. Thus, your ingame virtual actions have real life consequences.

Originally posted by Master_Razor

 

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Originally posted by Fibsdk

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Originally posted by cukimunga

 

I say yes because, if you're a bandit you wait in the bushes and attack whoever  walks by. No rhyme or reason, just doing what thiefs do.   Now ganking the same person over and over again on purpose would be to much.   When Im out and about and I see the opposing faction I'll kill at first sight. I do that because most likely thats what they are thinking.

---

 
The funny part is though. These people complaining about being killed over and over again by the same person, most likely said something back to him/her calling them names etc then wonder why they suddenty get singled out and hunted again and again. Seen it too often. "You prick get a life" and then they get what we call 'camped'. Maybe you should have kept your filthy mouth shut the first time around.
 
PvP sounds fun initially for a lot of people until they face an actual PvP'er. The kneejerk reaction of getting slaughtered and feeling a little adrenaline is too much for some. That's why we see random name calling and people crying on forums

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This is pretty difficult in wow, since people from the other faction can't understand you. So when that alliance druid comes and camps your corpse, it's just because they can.

 

WoW isn't the only PvP game out there even though it is for some. Even if we are speaking about WoW there is even less reason to cry about being killed since there is zero consequences.

Originally posted by orionite

Are you being purposefully obtuse?! I never said or meant any of the things you have listed. My point is that if you kill someone in game repeatedly and without that person having any chance to defend him/-herself that it is not the ingame character that is frustrated but the person at the keyboard. Thus, your ingame virtual actions have real life consequences.

  Well lets look at it shall we?. You never said any of the things i listed?. No but you are quoting and speaking against a point here. If you are going to take an opposite stance of the guy you quoted and argue against his point. You are effectivly taking the side of what he is speaking up against. If you have your own point to make then quoting his point really isn't the correct way to go about it since the man is 100% correct in his assesment. Lets look at what he is speaking up against in this thread. I'll copy paste some of the braindead nonsense some of these forum users have been writing.

- Conclusion: PK gankers/griefers are just like alchoholics drinking Non-Alchoholic beer

- All a GANKER is a NO Lifer who has nothing better to do then RUIN the game with thier CHILD like antics to try to prove to themself that they may of been bullied in RL but NO one is going to BULLIE them in a VIRTUAL world.
 

- I pity their poor pathetic lives that motivate them to take it out on others in an environment that gives them the power they don't possess in themselves.

-but unfortunaly many I have seen into this gank form are far from social people, regardless which game.

-I find gankers to be players of the nastier variety - personality wise.

-Gankers are mostly a-holes. They ruined the day for many unwary players, and they flood and spam humiliating words in game just to make a fuss out of their pathetic behaviour. Sexual and racial abusing spams, or nonsense talk with a strong effort to insult.

-I may be completely wrong here and welcome correction if so, but to the best of my knowledge all that ganking serves to do is make people who have been ganked not want to play.

-But i think that bullying people is bullying be it in real life or in game, if you can beat on some one weaker than you just because you can and then justify it to yourself, then your a bully

Now if you are going to quote him telling how wrong he is you are effectivly taking the side of the people he is speaking against. That's the logical conclusion when you see somebody quoting and counter arguing their point. so you basically said those things by proxy.

Originally posted by Fibsdk

Originally posted by orionite

Originally posted by Forumfall

No. Because this is about meaningless games that don't do physical harm to anyone. Stop making all these pathetic Dr. Phil wannabe real life comparsions. It's a game. Don't like what's happening LOG OUT.

Games are played by people, though. And I log in to have fun doing PvE and PvP, not to spend a frustrated 30 minutes trying to get from a to b without getting killed by some bored asshole i can't put a dent in.

And for all of you who tell me (and others) to gtfo the PvP server: If you equate PvP with ganking then you haven't even understood the premise of this discussion!

 

 

Your point is a 100% moot. It doesn't matter if games are played by real life people. You cannot compare what happens in a game to what happens in real life. Are you trying to say if i kill somebody in a game I'm just as likely to want to do the same in real life? No you and i both know that is an idiotic notion so i second that motion about this having NOTHING to do with real life. Real people..NOT real life situations or real life personalities. I have been in RP guilds that were hating on dwarfs for an ancient dispute. We only went after dwarfs. Does that mean i hate dwarfs in real life? Again an idiotic notion.

 

You can RP a hardcore pvper. Infact many has. Just because there are people out there that just gank randomly with no purpose doesn't exlude those that has one in the sake of RP.

 

As i have already explained. If you play in a PvP based game with 4 factions lets say elves/humans/midgets/trolls. If i and a big group of other people from out own faction set up a guild and follow the lore why these 4 races are at war and hunt down the other 3 factions..That is essential RP'ing. The fact that a human is grouping with a troll and a midget can be seeing as being a traitor to their own kind and up for punishment. That punishment could be screwing up them sucking on the exp titty enjoying their PvE fun.

 

Now if you were one of those cross teamers like we used to call them back in the old EQ days i can understand why you would call somebody like me a doucebag that ruined your day of PvE fun.. doesn't change the fact you should have rolled non PvP if you can't hande being attacked.

 

The real doucebags are the PvE'ers that join PvP servers expecting to be left alone and only engaged in combat at their own leisure. Then when they think it's time to leave their exp tit, they want pvp to be a consesual duel. You need to have the same level of equipment. It has to be 1vs1 unless you are with a friend. In that case the pvp'er can also bring a friend. Then you bow and yell GO!! when everybody is ready to partake in this little PvP event. I'm sorry but this has nothing to do with real PvP. If you want that type of game then play WoW..You can roll a non pvp server and still do battle grounds. GTFO out of my free for all pvp game

 

No the only people that says you can't RP a hardcore PvP'er are the ones that can't handle being surprise attacked. The adrenaline rush they get is too much for them making them cuss and swear calling you an ahole.

This person is exactly the kind of person I do not want to meet in RL in games or anywhere.  If I meet him in afterlife, i will complain to god.

He is essentially saying, since he can ruin your day, he should, he will and he enjoys it, so GTFO his turd.  So what?  I do not feel any loss staying away from him, I feel much better that he is camping the newbie spawn point in his empty PVP server, talking to the few online who are also  camping empty spawn points.  A casual look at most games with PVE and PVP servers will usually show that the least populated servers are PVP servers.  WoW is about the only game in which PVP servers got some active population.  In many other games, open PVP servers are ghost towns.  EvE is a different animal altogether.

I am so glad that most of the good games have built in mechanism that allows me to shun anti-socials like him.  There is enuf fun in these games for me to enjoy my few off hours, and there is so much more to worry about in the rest of my hours that these annoying people no longer feature in my life any more.

Originally posted by Fibsdk

Originally posted by cukimunga

I say yes because, if you're a bandit you wait in the bushes and attack whoever  walks by. No rhyme or reason, just doing what thiefs do.   Now ganking the same person over and over again on purpose would be to much.   When Im out and about and I see the opposing faction I'll kill at first sight. I do that because most likely thats what they are thinking.

 

The funny part is though. These people complaining about being killed over and over again by the same person, most likely said something back to him/her calling them names etc then wonder why they suddenty get singled out and hunted again and again. Seen it too often. "You prick get a life" and then they get what we call 'camped'. Maybe you should have kept your filthy mouth shut the first time around.

 

PvP sounds fun initially for a lot of people until they face an actual PvP'er. The kneejerk reaction of getting slaughtered and feeling a little adrenaline is too much for some. That's why we see random name calling and people crying on forums

This is total bullshit.
 

There are just so many noobs joining the pvp server in a day.  These lonely idle poor noob campers will jump off the building if they missed the rare spawn of a noob in the month.  They will waste no time checking who the spawn is, they will hardly bother if the victim is nice or name calling no.  They just kill and kill and kill.

To try to give these griefers a pretentious reason for their pathetic behaviour is like trying to explain why black is black.  As for the term actual PVPer.  Oh boy, they have to create a term actual pvper to glorify himself and step apart from the other gankers.