I think Atheists are hyprocites for criticzing people who believe in god when they too believe in something.. the absence of god.

Agnostics believe there could or could not be a god. They don't believe in anything.

Atheists do believe in something - even if it's the absence of god/s

Believing in something when there is no proof whether it is the absence or prescense of god... is stupid in terms of logic. YOU HAVE NO PROOF

So atheists are hypocrites for criticizing people who believe in god when atheists themselves have beliefs with no logic to back those beliefs up.

No. Strong atheists believe in something (there is no god) . Weak atheists do not believe in a god, but don't believe that there necessarily isn't one either(they literally do not believe in anything). Agnostics believe that there exists an entity responsible for creation (maybe not a god as you picture it) .

It brings me some joy to stomp on your ignorance though.

Not at all, it is logical to not believe in something that has no evidence, or evidence that you would accept anyway, that points towards that things existance.  Atheists make no claim, some do, but all being an atheist means is that you do not believe, whether you believe it doesn't exist or just see no reason to believe it does makes no difference, so you are an atheist too since you are obviously not convince there is one.

Agnostics only claim to not have knowledge and it has nothing to do with belief, and in sense anyone can be an agnostic and something else too, like an agnostic atheist or agnostic theist, which would mean you don't know for sure if there is one or not but you are or are not convinced there is.

What you are talking about is positive atheism which claims that a god/s do not exist which is a claim that you can't techinally prove, so that does not make logical sense or might just be poor wording but there is also sceptical atheism that sees no reason to believe there is one.  One discounts the possiblility the other sees it techinally as a possibility but is not convinced that it exists, also why I think you would be a sceptical atheist.

I bet if you asked people and explained what agnostic meant then most people would be agnostic to a god/s existance.

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

No. Strong atheists believe in something (there is no god) . Weak atheists do not believe in a god, but don't believe that there necessarily isn't one either(they literally do not believe in anything). Agnostics believe that there exists an entity responsible for creation (maybe not a god as you picture it) .

It brings me some joy to stomp on your ignorance though.

 

ag·nos·tic (g-nstk)
n.
a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.

a·the·ist (th-st)
n.
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

NO , I'm pretty sure you are wrong.

ARE YOU SURE THAT YOU KNOW THERE ISN'T A GOD (atheist) OR THERE IS A GOD (some religion that believes in god)

I got the definitions correct. Copied right from the dictionary.

Originally posted by CactusmanX

Not at all, it is logical to not believe in something that has no evidence, or evidence that you would accept anyway, that points towards that things existance.  Atheists make no claim, some do, but all being an atheist means is that you do not believe, whether you believe it doesn't exist or just see no reason to believe it does makes no difference, so you are an atheist too since you are obviously not convince there is one.

Agnostics only claim to not have knowledge and it has nothing to do with belief , and in sense anyone can be an agnostic and something else too, like an agnostic atheist or agnostic theist, which would mean you don't know for sure if there is one or not but you are or are not convinced there is.

What you are talking about is positive atheism which claims that a god/s do not exist which is a claim that you can't techinally prove, so that does not make logical sense or might just be poor wording but there is also sceptical atheism that sees no reason to believe there is one.  One discounts the possiblility the other sees it techinally as a possibility but is not convinced that it exists, also why I think you would be a sceptical atheist.

I bet if you asked people and explained what agnostic meant then most people would be agnostic to a god/s existance.

be·lief (b-lf)
n.

Something believed or accepted as true

Atheists accept the absence of a god a a truth.  This is a belief.

Well, personally I found ignosticism (no it's not a typo) to be the closest to my view on this matter and taking into account the evidence (or rather a lack thereof) also probably the most logical approach one can take.

I partly agree with the OP, however this goes mostly for the hardcore atheist, I assume many atheists that consider themselves that are actually much closer to being agnostics or ignostics, but are simply not aware of the definitions and do not care, same as they probably do not care much whether or not there is a god.

Originally posted by sanicek

Well, personally I found ignosticism (no it's not a typo) to be the closest to my view on this matter and taking into account the evidence (or rather a lack thereof) also probably the most logical approach one can take.

I partly agree with the OP, however this goes mostly for the hardcore atheist, I assume many atheists that consider themselves that are actually much closer to being agnostics or ignostics, but are simply not aware of the definitions and do not care, same as they probably do not care much whether or not there is a god.

LOL, not caring about the logic of the definitions but just sticking with your guns is so typical of someone who has made a decision and fails at seeing any other perspectives.

I don't what to say other than you are just wrong.

Absence of belief is not the same as belief in absence.  You can believe god does not exist or not believe in god there is a difference.

Originally posted by CactusmanX

I don't what to say other than you are just wrong.

Absence of belief is not the same as belief in absence.  You can believe god does not exist or not believe in god there is a difference.

well let me ask you. are you an atheist? Y/N do you believe there is no god? Y/N

Originally posted by Thrakk

 

ag·nos·tic (g-nstk)
n.
a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.

 

a·the·ist (th-st)
n.
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

 

NO , I'm pretty sure you are wrong.

ARE YOU SURE THAT YOU KNOW THERE ISN'T A GOD (atheist) OR THERE IS A GOD (some religion that believes in god)

 

I got the definitions correct. Copied right from the dictionary.

Get a new dictionary: One that has the terms "Strong Atheist" and "Weak Atheist". Agnostic is also ill-defined; perhaps you used the latest edition of the Merriam-Websters Christian Fanatics.

I would say I am an atheist, but I don't know if there is a god so I can't assert belief in nonexistance, I see no reason to think there is one though.

I think the defining question would be do you believe in a god? if not then you are an atheist, you don't have to necessarily believe there isn't one just not believe there is.

i used the freedictionary.com

'strong atheism' and 'weak atheism' - man, you must be a huge atheist to support terminology other than 'atheism'.

for the rest of the world, we use the dictionary and the definition of atheism is final - the same as it always is.

when's the last time i had to fill out a form in which 'strong atheist' or 'weak atheist' are there to bubble in. never. it is only 'atheist'. decorating your atheist religion is silly because atheists commonly means that you believe there isn't a god. no need foryour illogical subgeneres that say that some atheists are really agnostic. just say you are agnostic, sheesh

Originally posted by Thrakk

Originally posted by CactusmanX

I don't what to say other than you are just wrong.

Absence of belief is not the same as belief in absence.  You can believe god does not exist or not believe in god there is a difference.

 

well let me ask you. are you an atheist? Y/N do you believe there is no god? Y/N

Originally posted by CactusmanX

I would say I am an atheist, but I don't know if there is a god so I can't assert belief in nonexistance, I see no reason to think there is one though.

I think the defining question would be do you believe in a god? if not then you are an atheist, you don't have to necessarily believe there isn't one just not believe there is.

Originally posted by Thrakk

I knew a simple Yes or No question would be too hard for you.

I think people choose atheist over agnostic to describe themselves based on how likely the existance of a god seems to them, for me I would say that technically there could be one but it does not seem probable and I think the evidence is stronger that it is just a concept people invinted, though still technically could exist.

Originally posted by CactusmanX

I think people choose atheist over agnostic to describe themselves based on how likely the existance of a god seems to them, for me I would say that technically there could be one but it does not seem probable and I think the evidence is stronger that it is just a concept people invinted, though still technically could exist.

  I see your point here.

I stick with definitions. I stick with logic (as in that course you can take in college about A /= B stuff)

I guess that's why I put 'logical reasons' into the thread name - logic and definition was my reason for atheists being hypocrites.

I would call myself a pantheist.  I believe in God because the beauty and symmetry, and oneness of the universe.  The only thing that could have produced mind must be mind, the most brilliant piece of art is our body.  Yes we know how we inherited these things (thank you science) but it just shows a more brilliant work of art.  Creation that expands and produces itself, in a logical way.  I also believe because i have seen a miraculous pattern in my life and experienced things like no other.. And stories from others of course.  I think people don't believe because they hold false intreprutations and their only view of God is dogmatic in nature and not philisophical

lol people say theres no evidence.  Just because God doesnt pop up and say "hey im right here and i exist" people think he really doesnt.  The have a bad view of him and dont in the least understand philisophical logic.  Religion gives God a bad name.  Most great people, and nearly everyone that shaped civilizartion, carried an abstract view of him and went against the conventional religion of the time.

Originally posted by Thrakk

i used the freedictionary.com

'strong atheism' and 'weak atheism' - man, you must be a huge atheist to support terminology other than 'atheism'.

for the rest of the world, we use the dictionary and the definition of atheism is final - the same as it always is.

when's the last time i had to fill out a form in which 'strong atheist' or 'weak atheist' are there to bubble in. never. it is only 'atheist'. decorating your atheist religion is silly because atheists commonly means that you believe there isn't a god. no need foryour illogical subgeneres that say that some atheists are really agnostic. just say you are agnostic, sheesh

How is atheism a religion? Saying I don't believe you is not a religion it be like saying - not collecting rocks is a hobby, and not to belabor the point - bald is a hair color. There is no dogma, no tenants,  no ceremonies. It's not a belief system it is a position on one issue and one does not a system make. Theism is the state of mind were you have a belief in a god and atheism is a lack of that belief. There is nothing that says two atheists will agree on anything other then whether or not a god exists, everything else is up for grabs. Then it becomes a matter of philosophical positions and systems you want to adopt. The mere fact that a group of people happen to agree on things, shows that those people have similar ideas. Yes, I have a belief system but it is personal and is no way attached to atheism. If your going to say atheist religion then name one tenant of atheism. I don't think you will be able to come up with an example because none exist.

As people said earlier lack and presence are not the same thing the words do not mean the same thing.

Originally posted by Thrakk

for the rest of the world, we use the dictionary and the definition of atheism is final - the same as it always is.

Yes, definitions are always final and never change.  Ever ever ever ever ever....  

Now, in the REAL world, definitions DO change.  The fact is, a dictionary gives you the barest information on a word.  If I look up Buddhism in a dictionary, do you think it gives all aspects of the word? If I look up Christian and it fails to tell me about baptisms or miracles, does that mean both of those ideas are not part of Christianity?

The fact of the matter is, Atheists have defined themselves, just as other groups do.  Not all Atheists agree with each others definitions.  Confusing, I know.  But think about the meaning of Christian among the numerous denominations that surround us.  I think you'll begin to understand.  

My definition is simply:  A lack of belief in god(s).

Other Atheists will agree with you.  Other Atheists will disagree with both of us.

I personally have ZERO belief in god(s) because the people making the claims have presented no proof.  Just as you have ZERO belief in the tooth fairy or Santa Claus (offensive, I know, but the same as how I feel about god(s), I can't help it).

What this should tell you more than anything is that Atheists are not a single cohesive group.  They are individuals that identify themselves in a similar way.  Some of us try and band together to create numbers to combat any oppressive moves against us, or to simply share ideas, or to simply feel like they are part of a group -- we are after all social creatures (that's how we evolved and survived).  Most of us stay silent and live among you, and you never realize what our beliefs are, mostly because you assume we believe the same thing as the majority of Americans around you.

Oh, and the majority of us don't like to be pigeon-holed by having believers tell us who we are and how we should behave.  So, get over yourself.

- LC 

There are many problems with this argument, not the least of which involve the way we define the terms used above.

But to take the principle example:

If a strong Atheist were to criticize another for having strong beliefs of the truly religious variety, he may or may not be considered a hypocrit, depending upon a single very important factor, where one considers the line between fact (here I mean accepted knowledge, whether it be true or false) and faith to lie. At one extreme, even the most ludicrous beliefs must be treated as equal to all others, such as the African fable of the sun being a piece of fire in a basket on a turtles back. On the other extreme, nothing is verified fact, everything each individual percieves, thinks and feels may be illusion. For practical effect, one is forced to accept a measure in between the two, precisely where though is a major part of this argument.

Here is my reasoning, ultimately the accepted knowledge of religious faith is based upon unverifiable sources, principally the personal experiences of individuals who have long since died. The principles behind a logical rejection of religion or a religion are verifiable by any shmuck with the knowhow and/or equipment, although of course the reasoning to bring it together to that conclusion is up to the individual. That to me is the defining difference, the simple expedient of being able to verify the source of the information one is drawing conclusions from.

I was using a scientific approach to say atheists are hypocritical. I said that they believe there is no god and therefor they believe something without proof.

I know why this thread has got such an uproar. Under a scientific approach I can prove the rebel flag is a racist symbol. Will everybody agree? obviously not.

Now as for people saying they lean more towards atheism (believing there is no god (my definition which many people agree on) than agnosticism (god is indeterminite)... I understand how you could believe there is no god (even without proof) since I don't believe dragons ever existed and the odds that they did would have to be very very small.  So if I had to choose between believing in god or not, I would go with not, simply because of the odds that I make up in my mind. But, I'm agnostic, and there is more choices than either believing in god, or not believing in god. I think it is possible either way even if I would lean towards god not existing.