The archetype system fails and has never worked because it just makes the classes feel generic and watered down and just not fun to play. You spend your whole time going through the starter areas again and again until you realise you like none of the classes so you just go with one and then you just become down on the game cause you're not having fun with the class or any class.

The WoW class system where each class is very different from eachother is the best and I like how each class can play 3 total different roles. I've never had more fun with any class than my Druid on WoW.

Originally posted by JGMIII

I just want to ask, Is it a bad thing to create a game with group focus pvp in mind?

Should a healer be able to Heal forever, Dps and have amazing survivability/utility?

Why is it so bad to have to rely on other players in a MMO?

The OP says this doesnt work in practice but I believe it does.

People that solo all day and refuse to make friends/allys in this game will struggle. This imo is a good thing.

Some people say the WL suxs or the Marauder sux but to be honest in a group situation I havent seen any evidence of this.

I've gotten killed and killed every class on order side they seem to full fill their roles.

To the OP you wont find a easy OP solo monster class in this game, the whole idea on class design in WAR is that we all need eachother.

To you this is a flaw, to me it reminds me of the old days in EQ or DAoC where classes weren't jack of all trades.

When I first started WAR i liked that I had to run from Melee Dps as a Sorc or my Marauder couldnt just rush into a pack of Order and flail away without getting insta gibbed.

You need to think and play to your strengths and the oppositions weaknesses.

I'm alot better in Pvp now in WAR. Im patient with my Marauder. I wait for Dps to attack my healers/casters and I protect them, I go after Casters and Ranged DPS before Tanks and Melee Dps, I try nto to stay to close to the rest of my teammates if i see a few BWs hanging in the back spamming AOE.

I personally feel that this is how classes are supposed to be played, Every class isnt supposed to have tank survivability, high Dps and CC out the ying yang.

If thats what you're looking for this game isn't for you.

 

 

In DAoC, you had classes like the ones I like. If you read my f'ing post you'd realize that. Thane and Reaver come to mind.

There is nothing wrong with team based play as long as every class has something to offer to the team. 

Personally I think it is much easier to hide flaws in balance in a team based game, because you don't get to individually examine how everything works if the team is doing well.  It isn't until you get extremes that certain things come to light.  Like when your team had a decent balance of tanks/dps/heal, but the dps was primarily shadow warriors and engineers winning was clearly harder than if the dps was heavy on bright wizards and witch hunters.  I'm referring to how things were at the games release, not now.

Class balance is still important.  If one class fills a role on the team leaps and bounds better than others, then there really isn't much reason to have anything but that class. 

Originally posted by Daffid011

There is nothing wrong with team based play as long as every class has something to offer to the team. 

Personally I think it is much easier to hide flaws in balance in a team based game, because you don't get to individually examine how everything works if the team is doing well.  It isn't until you get extremes that certain things come to light.  Like when your team had a decent balance of tanks/dps/heal, but the dps was primarily shadow warriors and engineers winning was clearly harder than if the dps was heavy on bright wizards and witch hunters.  I'm referring to how things were at the games release, not now.

 

Class balance is still important.  If one class fills a role on the team leaps and bounds better than others, then there really isn't much reason to have anything but that class. 

 

 

 

That is a dillema, but a dillema that most don't get to face in ORvR. The reason why is because you cannot control what class people play or how they play it. A team based balance system isn't good, because it's assuming you have a certain amount of tanks, healers, and dps on the field vs. a certain amount of the enemies tanks, healers, and dps. The fact is that on the battlefield, you don't have the proper mix of classes on both sides, so team balance isn't worth a shit. People arguing for team balance usually have a premade up their sleaves and can give a shit less about other people. The game is designed for random strangers to meet up and PvP. Look at the PQ system, the Rally Call system, the Join All (SC) system. Joining battles are easy and anyone can do it. So people all over, and different class make ups will join. There's no telling what mix of classes you have and if the game is balanced to where you need a certain number of tanks, MDPS, RDPS, and Healers, then you've already set the winner before the people even started fighting. Of course this doesn't take into acount player skill and team work, but the game is balanced on ideal team based play.

I'm currently playing a Swordmaster and honestly, they do rock. I would point out that, as in most games, defense doesn't seem to do that much in RvR situations, so unless you got a 1-hander that does more than your 2-hander, go 2-hander. The nice thing about SMs is they get a damage absorber, which even though it isn't "OMG Awesome" as you kids might say, it still helps out. I also would recommend that in a few years, when you've been playing MMOs for awhile, you might begin to appreciate just how well the classes are balanced in Warhammer. If you want an easy game to play, that really doesn't take a lot of forethought, then you should really head back to WoW. If you want to actually think and use a little strategy, not just running around someone in a circle praying they don't hit you, then stick around and you might get something from Warhammer.

The problem is that people don't accept games for what they are, but rather they complain because they aren't what they want them to be. I never wanted to adventure around Baldur's Gate when that game came out, but you know what, I accepted that's where it was set and enjoyed the game. If you want to decide everything that happens in a freaking game, go buy your own game company, otherwise suck it up and lose the sense of entitlement.

Originally posted by Zenren

I'm currently playing a Swordmaster and honestly, they do rock. I would point out that, as in most games, defense doesn't seem to do that much in RvR situations, so unless you got a 1-hander that does more than your 2-hander, go 2-hander. The nice thing about SMs is they get a damage absorber, which even though it isn't "OMG Awesome" as you kids might say, it still helps out. I also would recommend that in a few years, when you've been playing MMOs for awhile, you might begin to appreciate just how well the classes are balanced in Warhammer. If you want an easy game to play, that really doesn't take a lot of forethought, then you should really head back to WoW. If you want to actually think and use a little strategy, not just running around someone in a circle praying they don't hit you, then stick around and you might get something from Warhammer.

The problem is that people don't accept games for what they are, but rather they complain because they aren't what they want them to be. I never wanted to adventure around Baldur's Gate when that game came out, but you know what, I accepted that's where it was set and enjoyed the game. If you want to decide everything that happens in a freaking game, go buy your own game company, otherwise suck it up and lose the sense of entitlement.

 

May I ask who this post is directed to? Because first you started by assuming someone is a kid, and assuming is an immature reaction. Instead of assuming, one should gather all the facts, then make a decision. Next, you made the mistake of telling other people what they should do, which you have no right to do. Everyone deserves respect and if you want it, you should start showing it. Lastly, you made the mistake of assuming a persons game experience. Just as point 1 says, before you assume, do the mature and rational thing, which is gather all of the facts.

Thanks.

P.S.- I prefer sword and board in RvR on my SM, and there's a noticable difference on how long I stay up compared to if I used a 2-hander. The longer I can stay up, the more of an annoyance I am to the enemy. But that's just my preference.

I dont think he was assuming you are a kid...read the post again..

He said ""OMG Awesome" as you kids might say". Implying that he is not up to date with the latest interwebz slang...there is no need to get all defensive about it.

You do seem very defensive, and I can see why, as some people make some assumptions, but it does you no favours by acting as they assume you will.

My friends in their 50s call me a kid, and I am far beyond that age...

Anyway, back on topic..how far did you try WP til?

They suck early on, sure, but once you get Divine assault and run round doing as much dmg as you do healing, and taking on champions + adds without dropping below 90% health, then its a lot more fun...hell, I even tanked a PQ hero due to the other people being WH and falling over all the time :)

My main problem with WAR is that I love the game, but I cant settle on a class...or a realm, the amount of times I have deleted and swapped realms is insane :(

atm playing a WP, RP and AM, but being pulled back to Zealot and Magus...so may be deleting all over again :(

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

The archetype system fails and has never worked because it just makes the classes feel generic and watered down and just not fun to play. You spend your whole time going through the starter areas again and again until you realise you like none of the classes so you just go with one and then you just become down on the game cause you're not having fun with the class or any class.

The WoW class system where each class is very different from eachother is the best and I like how each class can play 3 total different roles. I've never had more fun with any class than my Druid on WoW.

The WoW class system - lol. The WoW classes were terrible and as generic as they come. I suppose you're talking about the talent trees. Big deal.

DAoC had so many unique classes it puts WoW to shame. And you obvious never got passed level 5 in CoH/CoV if you didn't enjoy the system. You could customize so much and basically hardly any people were the same at the end. WoW classes are the definition of cookie cutter.

This game doesn't have a Jack of all trades heavy armor class that can melt peoples faces away.

Now go away!

Originally posted by Rhiaden

I dont think he was assuming you are a kid...read the post again..

 

He said ""OMG Awesome" as you kids might say". Implying that he is not up to date with the latest interwebz slang...there is no need to get all defensive about it.

You do seem very defensive, and I can see why, as some people make some assumptions, but it does you no favours by acting as they assume you will.

My friends in their 50s call me a kid, and I am far beyond that age...

This ^

If you weren't on here acting like some 12 year old kid, maybe people would treat you with more respect and actually help you.  As others have stated, this game probably isn't for you.

Originally posted by nate1980

I prefer a class that has survivability and dps.

 

Go to WoW, play a death knight.

<Mod Edit>

Mythic has a history of putting out overpowered class additions. Seems he's with the right company for that in my opinion ;)

To the OP, on the whole I agree with you however you are being a bit too choosey.

I played from launch and tried all classes on both sides and got sick of most around level 10-15 some even earlier.

I felt the same as you, that I couldn’t connect and find a class that suited me. I didn’t feel that each class had a signature skill like they had in WoW. In WoW Warriors had charge, Mages had blink, Druids could shape shift, Paladins could use divine Shield, etc., etc.. In WAR the classes have some good skills but no signature stand-out skills that make you link with the class.

That was until I found the Orc Choppa. I love the AoE focus and that class does have decent survivability and DPS. The order equivalent is the Slayer. Although that is a dwarf using swords or axes mostly I would recommend rolling one before you totally give up. You might just find something special there.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Destroyeron

Originally posted by nate1980

I prefer a class that has survivability and dps.

 

 

Go to WoW, play a death knight.

 

Or a paladin or a druid or a priest?

Oh wait, which class in War can be a tank, a dps and a healer  just by resetting 70 point deep talent settings?

So tx I already took your advice 5 months ago as did the other 600K War players.  It is a no brainer you know.

The problem you guys have(*) : there is NO data on any War fight to analyse. Just like mmorpg's balances were made ... 5 years ago.

The balance is made with a "wet thumb in the air" system.

"Group balance"

Tell me what group? 5, 6, 10, 20? in which space ? from which data?

 (*) Apart from having to play with clunky and unresponsive spell systems.... in PvP

Being everything at once with every class is a good thing Zorn?

WoW tosses Archtypes right out the window man.

It's actually incredibly bad class design, Just look at the WoW mage the god damn class can get out of situation better then a rogue, Warriors paladins and Deathknights have the survivability of tanks yet they could out dps hunters and Rogues? thats good class design? Pure classes in WoW feel worthless.......

If everyone can do everything why roll mulitple classes? With how EZmode WoWs dungeons are (no CC) everyone is the same, its become hello kitty online.

I used to love doing BGs and Dungeons/Raids in WoW but everything is so watered down, any challenge in that game is gone.

I understand where the OP is comming from but This game isn't build to have a jack of all trade class even if DAoC had a couple.

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Originally posted by nate1980
1. I can't find a class that I can connect with.

[*]I am loyal to Order. Order just suits my personality and choice of scenery.
[*]I will only play the human or elven race. Dwarves don't appeal visually to me.
I prefer a class that has survivability and dps. WH's don't have any survivability, but they have dps. WP's are expected to be healbots, plus their dps sucks. KoTBS requires you to "twist" auras to be viable (blah). BW's blow themselves up, and have no survivability. SM's wear a dress. SW"s are gimp, have no bowstrings, no quiver, and their knees don't bend. AM's are expected to heal, but I like their dps. WL's use halberds, and I'm a sword type of guy.

2. Their forums are wacked. I'm registered and everything, and when I try to access the forum, it directs me to sign in. So I sign in, which can be seen by it showing I'm signed in. It even has my portrait and everything. Then I go to the forums, and it doesn't show me as being signed in. It's a viciuos cycle and I'm tired of dealing with it. I know my forum account works, because I've created a thread before.

Without access to the forums, I can't ask the community for help with my class problem.

 
I know it seems like I'm being picky, but I like what I like and other gaves have pleased me in the past. I loved the majority DAoC's classes, but the Thane in particular stood out to me. I love being able to cast DD spells while also being able to dish out melee dps, and take a beating. I liked the DK and Pally in WoW. I loved being able to dish out melee and spell dps, take a beating, and heal myself. War doesn't have any hybrid classes like that.
 

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If you post to get advice I would advice you to play all the Classes you could even remotely take an interest in to level 21. Then you have 6 Mastery Points and you have a decent indication of what you can do with them as well as access to most (not all) core powers. Before level 21 you don't have but the vaguest indication of what the Class can become. Mastery Points changes everything.

if you  want you can have my SW. hes maxed out lvl wise and has 60RR 1700G and still sux ass monkeys after what, 8 months now and no relief in sight.

i love playing a ranged dps w/ no range and no dps woooooo!!!!!

KotBS is the class you want. "Twisting" auras too hard? No, it isn't. It's just some extra button pushing. If you do it all with out addons, working the aura firings into your sequence actually helps you pace your AP use better. If you don't want to be bothered, get the Twister addon and spam the bound button between using the other skills if you want.

I've had the problem finding the exact class I want in many games. However, in this case, you have the class you want, you just have to break yourself of the mental road block that somehow twisting auras is prohibative of enjoying the class. Also, guess what, if you miss your timing and one of your auras lapses for a second, who cares.