What a great game this is going to be for anyone who wants Call of Duty 4 in mmorpg clothes. i'm not saying this to put down Darkfall persay although I do feel a bit ripped off based on what the description of the game says

Dont take me the wrong way, my e-rage has settled and I'm speaking objectively when I say that anyone who decides to choose crafting,specifically harvesting, might as well put a big glow stick on their head wtih a neon t-shirt.  There are plenty of people in the game who dont want to pvp, they want to gank and AV's system has ensured  lots and lots of options for them.

Its not just an issue of staying protected while you mine....although that is logical.  What I call a problem is going to be someone else's definition of a good game:  Crafters who may or may not be newbs gathering resources to get a leg up are target #1 for hordes of equiped players on mounts.  It would be akin to someone level 15 or 20 coming back to the newbie lands to lay waste........because they can....or no police in Eve anywhere outside stations (cool idea for some I realize!)

If you want an EQ  style PvE experience where you can feel like the 1-2 hours a night you get is going somewhere I'm not sure id reccommend this game as of yet. I will not and can not use team speak on a regular basis....I guess that makes me not with the times lol.... 

If you are prepared to say "hey i mined these pixels, and I know theres a 9/10 chance that i'll get ganked and loose them' then man  the risk/ fun factor is there.....but I dont ALWAYS want to be looking over my shoulder when i play.....i find that type of constant emotion all day long is NOT relaxing, it actaully generates more anxiety.

My problem is im not a 20 year old gamer anymore. I got a wife and kids and anywhere from 0-3 hours max per session on average.  I don't need to rule the world but i'm not gonna mine every night to hand it over to a group of ass clowns who happen to be on mounts either.

Had they implemented the murder count system/ alignment flagging system in UO then they would have won  the hearts and minds of the crafters I believe.  Instead, theyve made it clear that the solitary crafter is fodder choice #1 for roaming PK gangs.

Darkfall lacks options for the casual unless said casual isn't worried too much about a sense of progression.

why play Darkfall as a casual? Because I was (am) looking for something that is more hardcore than WoW (by a lot) but not full on open quake  pvp......I dont think that balance has been achived yet.  I still maintain that Darkfall is one of the games with highest potential to succeed but its not there yet imho.

 I personally see sandbox aspects but the irony here is the more  they tried to be sandbox the more players find ways to press a groove into the fabric of game mechanics .....so that part will  take a while to flesh out.   There are lots of mobs that just stand around and let you kill them until they wake up and then you have (had) no chance to begin with hehe. 

If you're into large group or even small group PvP holy crap this game is for you!

If you're into a game where the solitary adventurer is at extremely high risk of getting ganked then this game is for you.

If you're an adult mother / father who wants to log on to a game and do a mix of PvE/PvP/crafting for a couple hours, i'm not so sure this game is for you.  Maybe in a couple patches? not sure.

Either way, the community seems to be settling down here a bit and on the DF forums so a lot of what people have to say is accurate, albeit emotional. 

Im  a bit disapointed that the game isnt more then it is but as a software devloper nerd i can only begin to imageine the amount of work that went into making this infrastructure.  My sincere hope is that in the next coming months they patch stuff into the game other than clan fixes that swings the game a bit further towards the middle..

If I have to pick (and based on the current market unfortunately I do) between pure PvE and pure PvP mmorpg I will take the PvE because I'm more of a cerebral thinker than a twitch player (not that any play style is better than the other).

Darkfall has ,however, taught this 33 year old a lot about what games work and dont work for him though.

I will be watching this game like a Hawk but I think i will be letting my sub expire.  But Vanguard PvE is looking mighty sweet right now let me tell ya.

Im wondering about one thing here. I have many friends playing WoW right now. They just make new characters all the time. make them max level and best gear, then makes a new toon and starts all over again.

I asked them if they wanted to try DF (on my computer), but they said they didnt like the grind!

So my question is simple: How can you grind in a PvE game, but not in a PvP game? And to be honest, in DF you can do anything from day one. You can join a crew on a ship and sail around the world, you can raid citys and other races. Gank and loot others.

In PvE MMOs you cant. You need to grind first. But thats ok?  Im very pussled about this mentality.

Can someone explain?

Call of Duty 4 owns Darkfall in every possible way!

 The game is a very good sandbox.

Of course, PVE is simply another resource as opposed to being a central part of the game, kinda like EVE, in that way.

I spent a few hours on Saturday gathering resources. With those resources I made a full set of Armor, had a clan member make me a weapon and a mount, with additional materials I had gathered.

A group of us then grouped up and raided a couple cities in enemy lands. 

Eventually, I got killed and lost everything I had done that day.

But, I had a blast and will do the exact same thing again next Saturday. (Maybe even survive!)

That is why this game rocks.

OP, I have two words for you: Mortal Online.

Originally posted by Die_Scream

OP, I have two words for you: Mortal Online.

I second that

Originally posted by robertb

 The game is a very good sandbox.

Of course, PVE is simply another resource as opposed to being a central part of the game, kinda like EVE, in that way.

I spent a few hours on Saturday gathering resources. With those resources I made a full set of Armor, had a clan member make me a weapon and a mount, with additional materials I had gathered.

A group of us then grouped up and raided a couple cities in enemy lands. 

Eventually, I got killed and lost everything I had done that day.

But, I had a blast and will do the exact same thing again next Saturday. (Maybe even survive!)

 

 

That is why this game rocks.

 

 

See I look at this post and ask myself what am I doing wrong? 

I totally understand this.  That is why i want everyone to read what I say about DF wit ha grain of salt.

it just pisses me off that in every game they design a thing to do like crafting, which obviously slants your time, energy and skill points, towards such a task ,  is a ruse intended to make you complete fodder for PK's. That one part really ticks me off, always has always will. Its not challenging to kill someone naked with a mining pick.....anyway I dont know what the solution is because I know what the alternatives are and they arent great either.

Is Darkfall grindy? My god I type SQL code all day but two days of DF gave me sore wrists......I belive they are working on that bit though.

My verdict is still out on the game but like i said, pve is important to me as part of a balanced game and I dont see the balance right now.

 i feel like if I go out and mine some ores and then someone comes by later and swipes me down then i've just lost that time. Sure it was "fun" to get those little bits i needed to get what little skill ups I could.....but it wasnt fun to loose them 3 hours after the baby went to bed, and now its my bed time.

Thats why I think its not for me.....I dont have time to be the fodder.  Someone might say well why do mining in the first place, go do "X" activity .....which leads me back to the fact that what AV says isnt in the game truly.

I don't think the developers ever had balance in their minds when designing the basic mechanics; they simply wanted to make a game fit to their likings, by borrowing elements from previous games of the genre they had played.

Making a game based on your private playstyle tastes with total disregard for overall balance is a recipe for disaster.

Originally posted by Rekindle

Originally posted by robertb

 The game is a very good sandbox.

Of course, PVE is simply another resource as opposed to being a central part of the game, kinda like EVE, in that way.

I spent a few hours on Saturday gathering resources. With those resources I made a full set of Armor, had a clan member make me a weapon and a mount, with additional materials I had gathered.

A group of us then grouped up and raided a couple cities in enemy lands. 

Eventually, I got killed and lost everything I had done that day.

But, I had a blast and will do the exact same thing again next Saturday. (Maybe even survive!)

 

 

That is why this game rocks.

 

 

 

See I look at this post and ask myself what am I doing wrong? 

I totally understand this.  That is why i want everyone to read what I say about DF wit ha grain of salt.

it just pisses me off that in every game they design a thing to do like crafting, which obviously slants your time, energy and skill points, towards such a task ,  is a ruse intended to make you complete fodder for PK's. That one part really ticks me off, always has always will. Its not challenging to kill someone naked with a mining pick.....anyway I dont know what the solution is because I know what the alternatives are and they arent great either.

Is Darkfall grindy? My god I type SQL code all day but two days of DF gave me sore wrists......I belive they are working on that bit though.

My verdict is still out on the game but like i said, pve is important to me as part of a balanced game and I dont see the balance right now.

 i feel like if I go out and mine some ores and then someone comes by later and swipes me down then i've just lost that time. Sure it was "fun" to get those little bits i needed to get what little skill ups I could.....but it wasnt fun to loose them 3 hours after the baby went to bed, and now its my bed time.

Thats why I think its not for me.....I dont have time to be the fodder.  Someone might say well why do mining in the first place, go do "X" activity .....which leads me back to the fact that what AV says isnt in the game truly.

Are you in an active clan? It helps.

I am an "older" gamer. I played AD&D when it first came out, lol.

 The key to gathering is what I called the "baby deer" approach. In other words, always be ready to run at the slightest indication of danger and bring stam and health pots.

Don't stay in one spot too long, as it is easy to hear gatherers from a good distance and you will attract the wolves.

Bank often...

Originally posted by Galadourn

I don't think the developers ever had balance in their minds when designing the basic mechanics; they simply wanted to make a game fit to their likings, by borrowing elements from previous games of the genre they had played.

 

Making a game based on your private playstyle tastes with total disregard for overall balance is a recipe for disaster.

It is, however, balanced to my taste. So no issue here.

But the mere notion of 'balanced' means that it's not a matter of preference, but of...well, balance.

A game isn't subjectively balanced; it either is, based on facts, or is not. And Darkfall is not, albeit many may be enjoying it for what it is...

Open pvp without a hard coded system of consequences is always a setup for failure.  I am not saying that it's necessarily right or wrong, I'm saying it leads to failure.  Players should bear the burden for this, but you can't trust players to set anything solid up.  Therefore a developer bears the responsibility for ensuring (not fair, but) balanced play.  There has to be a means for at the very least, word getting out to proper authorities that there are ravenous killers on the loose and possible consequences to their continued actions.  Without a reason not to do something, players will do it if it can benefit them.

I am not saying I agree, I am just stating what I've seen since the beginning of MMO's.  All an open pvp world does is encourage random player killing and discourage anything but the most persistent casuals and the hardcore to play your game, a very small % compared to who might play if there was some sort of balance.

Originally posted by Galadourn

But the mere notion of 'balanced' means that it's not a matter of preference, but of...well, balance.

A game isn't subjectively balanced; it either is, based on facts, or is not. And Darkfall is not, albeit many may be enjoying it for what it is...

Interesting that you do not  seem to understand that you are projecting your own opinion of balance here.

What specifcally do you feel is imbalanced?

Originally posted by Sovereign797

Open pvp without a hard coded system of consequences is always a setup for failure.  I am not saying that it's necessarily right or wrong, I'm saying it leads to failure.  Players should bear the burden for this, but you can't trust players to set anything solid up.  Therefore a developer bears the responsibility for ensuring (not fair, but) balanced play.  There has to be a means for at the very least, word getting out to proper authorities that there are ravenous killers on the loose and possible consequences to their continued actions.  Without a reason not to do something, players will do it if it can benefit them.

I am not saying I agree, I am just stating what I've seen since the beginning of MMO's.  All an open pvp world does is encourage random player killing and discourage anything but the most persistent casuals and the hardcore to play your game, a very small % compared to who might play if there was some sort of balance.

I do believe that there needs to be laws, especially in a RPG.

No argument here.

An UO style alignement and criminal system is just not compatible with Darkfall's combat system. That's one of the many reasons why UO will always remain a superior game compared to this. That style of combat failed in Conan, and fails again here, with the difference that Conan still did it better as players wheren't limited to left mouse button mashing.

The game is sandbox, you just don't liked being ganked all the time. I'm not bashing you at all, but that's a big part of what the game is about. I'm not crazy about it, but it is what it is.

I think the game is more geared toward guilds and groups than solo, whether crafting or exploring.

You can be casual in this game within the context of a guild. Not so much for protection as for safe areas to gather. It's a lot tougher to go it alone.

Like you said, the game isn't for everyone. Good luck.

Originally posted by robertb

 

What specifcally do you feel is imbalanced?

 

PvE and PvP; or rather, the ability to play the game for the PvE aspect of it (as was so lavishly advertised pre-launch) and not the PvP.

Crafters  are, as explained, fodder in this game. This is imbalance in my book, if what you have been advertising all these years is 'play it your way'...

Even Tasos said oficially that "this game will not be for everyone". That's a de facto acknowledgment of imbalance (regarding playstyles).

Originally posted by Sovereign797

Open pvp without a hard coded system of consequences is always a setup for failure.  I am not saying that it's necessarily right or wrong, I'm saying it leads to failure.  Players should bear the burden for this, but you can't trust players to set anything solid up.  Therefore a developer bears the responsibility for ensuring (not fair, but) balanced play.  There has to be a means for at the very least, word getting out to proper authorities that there are ravenous killers on the loose and possible consequences to their continued actions.  Without a reason not to do something, players will do it if it can benefit them.

I am not saying I agree, I am just stating what I've seen since the beginning of MMO's.  All an open pvp world does is encourage random player killing and discourage anything but the most persistent casuals and the hardcore to play your game, a very small % compared to who might play if there was some sort of balance.

I agree with every word. I might add that said 'persistent casuals' typically own their own credit card too! :) 

I agree with what you've seen from the beginning of MMOs and Darkfall's action vs. consequence dynamic is totally messed up in my mind.  It welcomes the agressor, punishes the agressee and supliments the free for all pointless Quake style killing that a large part of that community loves so much.

I cant help but think where is the lore? The notes of paper found in the wilderness that lead me further in.  if they ever put compelling pve in this game I'd be more likely to partake. If its just running around to kill or be killed with no underlying unifying force then I think ill stick with one of the more polished games out there.

I want to PvE in a harsh world with risks all around me.  I guess maybe i should open a new paradigm and call myself a Armored care bear......I dont think there's anything wrong with trying to imerse oneself in imersive content.....some people think thats lame.....I think spawn camping your enemy for an hour to farm alignment is lame. 

Originally posted by Galadourn

Originally posted by robertb

 

What specifcally do you feel is imbalanced?

 

PvE and PvP; or rather, the ability to play the game for the PvE aspect of it (as was so lavishly advertised pre-launch) and not the PvP.

Crafters  are, as explained, fodder in this game. This is imbalance in my book, if what you have been advertising all these years is 'play it your way'...

 

Even Tasos said oficially that "this game will not be for everyone". That's a de facto acknowledgment of imbalance (regarding playstyles).

You can PVE if you wish. There is nothing stopping you, in the same way as there is nothing keeping players from trying to kill you, in other words, a sandbox.

Crafters are not fodder, they simply have to play by the same rules as everyone else.

I am confused by  your definition of balanced, I suppose.

Originally posted by Rekindle 

I want to PvE in a harsh world with risks all around me.  I guess maybe i should open a new paradigm and call myself a Armored care bear......I dont think there's anything wrong with trying to imerse oneself in imersive content.....some people think thats lame.....I think spawn camping your enemy for an hour to farm alignment is lame. 

 

Doesn't really sounds like you want to PVE in a harsh world, from the rest of your post.

Are you sure that this is, indeed, what you want, or are you redefining the word harsh?