Originally posted by Dostum

Hey. Yes it means a grind.

I lost 3 sets of armour in a siege today (we won), clan members lose multiple sets also, our enemy all died once or more and lost everything they had, and the hamlet they put many hours into building.

Tomorrow I will have to grind to replace my armour, pots, weapons.

Guess how long it takes me to grind?

About 5 mining cycles (mine 5 times until I lose stamina), 150 ore. Buy 24 leather, bang scale set.

repeatable quests=nice gold per hour.

Sell stuff I get like sulfur etc in human npc towns, more cash.

Ye the grind is annoying, but you think EVE ships just buy themselves? Unless you have a corp/alliance who reimburse.

Too bad the armor in that game is useless. Almost everyone on every video Ive seen run around naked and still win most the fights. It's not player skill either because all they do is run up to someone and chase them while spamming left click. The only way I see this possible is they macrod up their skills lol. 

completely serious: just macro, its frowned upon but by NO MEANS illegal. It'll save you a lot of hassle so that you can start to play the real game. With macroing factored in, you progress pretty damn fast in DF.

 Do you actually mean "illegal"?  Illegal means prohibited by law not by EULA. As for 'forwned upon' AV seem to be unclear on macroing I thought they where going to take a 'hard line'. Its a sad reflection of there game that people macro (actually need to macro) rather than play.

Originally posted by Gorilla

 Do you actually mean "illegal"?  Illegal means prohibited by law not by EULA. As for 'forwned upon' AV seem to be unclear on macroing I thought they where going to take a 'hard line'. Its a sad reflection of there game that people macro (actually need to macro) rather than play.

I do not macro, nor do I need to macro.

People that do so miss the point. There is no end-game.

 Good for you! Really. The problem is you can't realy adjust the game balance for both the 'honest' players and those that *cough* get help. Thats bad for a competative game. Of course what they should do is clamp down hard (technically and through policing) on macroing and balance around straight play.

Originally posted by Gorilla

 Good for you! Really. The problem is you can't realy adjust the game balance for both the 'honest' players and those that *cough* get help. Thats bad for a competative game. Of course what they should do is clamp down hard (technically and through policing) on macroing and balance around straight play.

Yes, that would be nice.

It is just sad that many people seem to have such a badly developed sense of ethics.

I actually like the way Darkfall's skill system works, when you actually just play the game. 

...

The problem with grinding and macroing is easy to understand: Most people is essentially stupid, really. They dont care about having fun, they care about being the best, being competitive. Once they reach max level on some skills they will realize they dont like the game anymore and will leave the game saying: "This sucks, its too much grinding". No, stupid kid, you made the game a grind with your way to play it.

In my opinion there is no solution to the grinding in darkfall, because we need a solution to stupidity.

Edit: A well, the fact that you raise your skills raises when you use them instead of when you land/hit with them helps a lot to this kind of behaviour. But I bet Darkfall devs made it this way knowing what they were doing.

 Is it actually concidered cheating? The fact that so many concider it 'OK' is a problem in itself. Have AV softened there stance? Thier position is somehat opaque.

Originally posted by Gorilla

 Is it actually concidered cheating? The fact that so many concider it 'OK' is a problem in itself. Have AV softened there stance? Thier position is somehat opaque.

According to Aventurine, the only time they'll do something about macroing is if you are doing it in a safe zone ( i.e. next to city guard towers ) where you can't be killed.

"...World of Lamecraft..." wow you made a funny. Now if I were a gambling man, I would bet you're one of those who has never seen meaningful end game content...

Originally posted by robertb

 

Yes, that would be nice.

It is just sad that many people seem to have such a badly developed sense of ethics.

I actually like the way Darkfall's skill system works, when you actually just play the game. 

 

...

Such is the nature of PvP progression games.

Originally posted by Javan1

"...World of Lamecraft..." wow you made a funny. Now if I were a gambling man, I would bet you're one of those who has never seen meaningful end game content...

I had about twelve characters over 5 servers, mainly on Kel-thuzad.  I played when World of Warcraft first came out, quit for a while and then played for another year until the Burning Crusade came out.  I played through all of the "end-game" content before the Burning Crusade, including the Starship Troopers bugs.

My final moment in World of Warcraft was leveling up the Rogue I had been playing before I quit the first time (she was level 42 when I quit, and a total bad ass [at level 52 she was dropping 60's with ease in Alterac Valley]).  I had gotten her to level 53 and was in one of my favorite areas the Un'Goro crater... I also had a level 19 Rogue that I used for the Battlegrounds with her own special guild called "The Bikini Bandits."  I traded favors with a friend, and together we made Alaeluna and Threnody (the level 19 Rogues) awesome beyond all comparison.  Back on track, in the Un-Goro crater, with my level 53 Rogue, thinking of my level 60s and how all of the work I had been doing for them was basically nullified with the new content... I said to myself... If I have to grind out ONE more level.. I quit.... and I did, and I did.

Fancy "end game" content does not justify a grind.  There should be "throughout game" content.

 At least in WoW you needed to buy a bot to grind. With DF one left click macro does all.

As you say the journey should be every bit as fund as the destination. WoW the journey was fun people botted further characters or for gold selling purposes. With DF macroing is there from the start.

Macroing does not help anyone. Its just for the lazy. If some people dont want to play the game, not my problem.

Do you really not macro? Good for you if thats the case. I bet people in your clan do, how else do you fund cities?

Originally posted by Gorilla

Do you really not macro? Good for you if thats the case. I bet people in your clan do, how else do you fund cities?

I see a lot of macroers, all the time.

Most cities were initially funded by exploits that a number of beta testers knew about and used as soon as the game went live.

All this is true.

That said, I do not macro and simply play the game. I am having the best time I have ever had in any MMO.

If AV ever decides to add something like game guard, or such, to this game, it will, of course, only make it better. Perhaps some of those that need to cheat to play will leave, but that is also a good thng, imo.

There was a UO server that came out a few years after the game's release.  I can't think of the name off the top of my head but it was dubbed a "hardcore" server.

The interesting thing about the server is that you had a limited amount of skill points that you could level up each day.  I think it was 5 or 10 points a day. 

This one simple server rule practically eliminated macroing on the server.  You could either log in, skill up, and then log out.  Or you could raise your skills and then go explore the game.  PvP, socialize.  Not worry about being the best, because it was based on real time, not game time.  It was one of the most refreshing and innovative ideas I have ever seen in an MMO game.

I would love to see something like this implemented into one of the upcoming skill based MMO games.

Originally posted by Dameonk

There was a UO server that came out a few years after the game's release.  I can't think of the name off the top of my head but it was dubbed a "hardcore" server.

The interesting thing about the server is that you had a limited amount of skill points that you could level up each day.  I think it was 5 or 10 points a day. 

This one simple server rule practically eliminated macroing on the server.  You could either log in, skill up, and then log out.  Or you could raise your skills and then go explore the game.  PvP, socialize.  Not worry about being the best, because it was based on real time, not game time.  It was one of the most refreshing and innovative ideas I have ever seen in an MMO game.

I would love to see something like this implemented into one of the upcoming skill based MMO games.

You're thinking of Siege Perilous. SP was a very hardcore server with a ruleset that was specifically created to make the game as hard as possible.

Good times.

www.uoguide.com/index.php <---- makes Darkfall look like Carefall.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Dameonk

There was a UO server that came out a few years after the game's release.  I can't think of the name off the top of my head but it was dubbed a "hardcore" server.

The interesting thing about the server is that you had a limited amount of skill points that you could level up each day.  I think it was 5 or 10 points a day. 

This one simple server rule practically eliminated macroing on the server.  You could either log in, skill up, and then log out.  Or you could raise your skills and then go explore the game.  PvP, socialize.  Not worry about being the best, because it was based on real time, not game time.  It was one of the most refreshing and innovative ideas I have ever seen in an MMO game.

I would love to see something like this implemented into one of the upcoming skill based MMO games.

You're thinking of Siege Perilous. SP was a very hardcore server with a ruleset that was specifically created to make the game as hard as possible.

Good times.

www.uoguide.com/index.php <---- makes Darkfall look like Carefall.

wasn't it originally called the abyss or chaos server?

Originally posted by Dameonk

There was a UO server that came out a few years after the game's release.  I can't think of the name off the top of my head but it was dubbed a "hardcore" server.

The interesting thing about the server is that you had a limited amount of skill points that you could level up each day.  I think it was 5 or 10 points a day. 

This one simple server rule practically eliminated macroing on the server.  You could either log in, skill up, and then log out.  Or you could raise your skills and then go explore the game.  PvP, socialize.  Not worry about being the best, because it was based on real time, not game time.  It was one of the most refreshing and innovative ideas I have ever seen in an MMO game.

I would love to see something like this implemented into one of the upcoming skill based MMO games.

EVE Online is what you're after.

edit- removed rest of post since I never played on this shard. It's a little different concept from eVE. I dont want to make assumptions