Since the announcement of Live Gamer RMT service about to hit VG it has set me thinking what would be good for the game.

At first I was a bit bitter. I've never supported RMT and it reinforced what a s**t game company SOE is by going back on it's word over RMT.  Over the last few days my opinion has slightly changed after hearing  the different arguments concerning RMT in VG.  The big argument I feel was important was VG has not got the player base to support this feature or effect the in game ecomony in a big negative manner. Also viewing the thread on VG's boards it showed most people didn't care one way or the other.  Mostly it was the vocal minority voicing ther concern (myself included). If the big discussion thread is anything to go by the subs loss is likely to be minimal. 

I doubt the RMT service is going to pull in big sub numbers, I doubt it will have a positive influence on the profit taken (maybe slightly to begin with). The big reason is RMT does not change the fact that VG is still unfinished, full of bugs, more added on each patch, broken content and the biggy lack of players.  The trial is buggy as well which does not show VG's strengths. I rolled a toon on Halgar last night (just wasting time while by sub expires) and the second quest in is broken.  It took me half a hour just to receive it.  Not a great first impression for new players.

The negative part of the RMT service is SOE's greed which also will be VG's downfall in the long run. I have to ask myself why are they still charging a monthly sub for VG.  With the problems the game has got why put of potential players with further complications.  There's been a slow increase in players, now 2 out of 4 servers hit medium load with Halgar hitting it every now and again. Has SOE responded with extra resources; no the game I loved is basically on life support.  If I remember rightly the dev team is down to 4 devs, no wonder extra content is taking them a long time and patches introduce more bugs than they solve.

My solution is for SOE to go the whole hog and make VG F2P with cash shops and Live Gamer implemented.  The monthly sub is a barrier due to the bad launch and the bad reputation of Vanguard and SOE.  Once it's gone and the client is free more people will be inclined to try it passed the trial island.  The only problem I can see is SOE will have to dust of the coffers and promote VG to get the ball rolling and to implement their station cash (fluff items) shop.  It's time SOE follow through on their statements i.e. RMT is the future of MMO's.  This is the only way I can see VG get the development it needs and deserves.  SOE will not take the risk unless they our sure they will make profit.  I think SOE is missing a trick, if it was F2P and they advertised the game I wouldn't be suprised if 200k + accounts would be made with alot of income made from the cash shop and LG and of course it's easier to be less bothered about bugs when you not spending $15 a month on a sub.

I can see the appeal of the F2P market.  Over the last few days I've checked out a couple of the free to play games, servers are busy, loads of people around, grouping was easy and they were fun to play.  One I tried was Runes of Magic and it was still in open beta and it had double the servers of VG and all servers was listed as medium to full.

What does everyone else think? Would this be the best path for VG or would it be better to let it trudge along as a filler for station pass. 

I'm not hating on VG, check my post history.  I've always tried to support VG even when I disagreed with some of the pass changes.  I just want to to see the game survive and for SOE to release the potential in the game, but SOE will not invest unless they are certain of big profits.

Vanguard going free-to-play would help it. Even if it didn't, it couldn't fail Vanguard anymore than the subscription-based model has. Right now the subscription-based model enables development at the current pace of things; which might be an a-ok pace for those who're playing, but it's the ones who aren't playing that need to be attracted in order for the game to grow.

What'd have to happen though to make Vanguard free-to-play is removing it as a perk from Station Access. Vanguard isn't a detriment to Station Access, so even if it only benefits the service 0.0000000000001%, making it free-to-play and removing i from Station Access is lessening the service.

So it's about whether lessening the service to whatever extent, is worth how Vanguard stands to grow with an independent business model.

SOE has probably deemed it not worthy.

     I've often wondered just how many of Vanguard's subs were station pass players......I guess only SOE knows that and maybe they dont want to remove that incentive.......I think F2P would benefit Vanguard greatly (I'd download and play myself occasionally) and the OP is correct that quite a few of the recent F2Ps seem to be doing pretty well with cash shop........In general Soe looks at things and if they are profitable at all they tend to do nothing.........Like you said the dev team is bare bones and they arent putting alot of resources into it so I'm guessing even the low numbers they have may still turn a profit.

You guys are funny.  Meanwhile, the folks on Seradon are calling for a server-split because of over-crowding.

Originally posted by boojiboy

You guys are funny.  Meanwhile, the folks on Seradon are calling for a server-split because of over-crowding.

lol I dont see those calls... and it will die down after this crap goes live.

Originally posted by boojiboy

You guys are funny.  Meanwhile, the folks on Seradon are calling for a server-split because of over-crowding.

For what? is Xeth not up still? I doubt Seradon is "overcrowded", and even if it were; a server-split would make no sense unless both it and Xeth were overcrowded.

For the sake of this argument though, what if a fifth server was added? It wouldn't do anything to rebuke the idea that the subscription-based model for Vanguard has failed. A fifth server with others like Sartok still dead wouldn't suddenly mean retail expansion packs and frequent updates. A fifth server would still be leagues away from the thirteen the game started with; which didn't house a population enough to keep a Sigil-sized staff afloat.

In order for a game to do well as a "free to play"/item mall game, it has to be designed from the start for that model.  Trying to turn an existing game into that will only make a mess.  You'll lose a large fraction of your existing playerbase, and may not gain that many other players.

Vanguard is a particularly bad candidate for that model.  A lot of people who want a "free to play" game want one because they don't have  much money.  They're not likely to have particularly high end computers, and might not have a computer that can run Vanguard at all.  (The recommended system specifications for Vanguard are a lie, by the way, unless it's intended that they recommend a computer on which the game only nominally runs.)

Originally posted by boojiboy

You guys are funny.  Meanwhile, the folks on Seradon are calling for a server-split because of over-crowding.

Last time played VG (last week, not last year)all servers = LOW.

With F2P and cash-shop there must also be an incentative to use the cash-shop. I don't think that sounds to much fun.

I think reducing the sub to 5$ would pull in a lot more people.

Originally posted by Capn23

I think reducing the sub to 5$ would pull in a lot more people.

It might pull in a little more, but certainly not three times as many, so the net result would be less revenue and higher costs.

Originally posted by Buccaneer

What does everyone else think? Would this be the best path for VG or would it be better to let it trudge along as a filler for station pass. 

Simply put, this will never happen. Vanguard is getting LiveGamer across all servers, and from Sony's POV, that's the end of the discussion. There simply isn't a large enough audience for VG to merit bringing in a new server for it, and they're not about to make any of their games F2P,  either.

SOE is under the umbrella of Sony Computer Entertainment, which is the division that handles the PS2, PS3, and PSP.  That means that while Smed may be the head of SOE, he ultimately answers to Kaz Hiriai and the rest of the PlayStation honchos. To put it bluntly, SCE isn't going to give a rat's ass if a few Vanguard players on the internet get their panties in a bunch about LiveGamer and quit. As long as LG brings in money for the company overall, that's all they care about. Unless someone can give the honchos at SCE a good, solid reason why they shouldn't introduce RMT and microtransactions into their games, they're going to do just that.

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Originally posted by Quizzical

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Originally posted by Capn23

I think reducing the sub to 5$ would pull in a lot more people.

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It might pull in a little more, but certainly not three times as many, so the net result would be less revenue and higher costs.

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Well pointed . . .

SOE is grasping at whatever will sucker people into spending money.  What do they have coming down the pipe in the near future?  FreeRealms which isnt really free  (cash shops will rule as usual) and i think The Agency.  For a company is large as SoE..they should be cranking something new out at a faster rate than what they are doing.  EQ and EQ2 expansions are ok..but yo need something to excite players on a much higher level than Sony wants to commit too.

Originally posted by ougarit

Originally posted by boojiboy

You guys are funny.  Meanwhile, the folks on Seradon are calling for a server-split because of over-crowding.

 

Last time played VG (last week, not last year)all servers = LOW.

 

You have to log in at very odd hours to find a server at Low nowadays.  The biggest problem is going to be the bulk of new players leveling up into the high level adventuring and raid areas.  It's going to be way too crowded.  It's tough enough now with 70-100 people raiding in the same shard.

The current rumor is that they are working on eq3 or something that is similar but with a different name.  That was a rumor that started because they have started hiring people to work on an undisclosed fantasy mmo.

Originally posted by bjgladitsch

SOE is grasping at whatever will sucker people into spending money. 

I don't currently play any SOE games, but I'll play devil's advocate for the moment. Are they really grasping at something, or are they just evolving their business model from one that depends solely on subscription fees and the StationPass to one that allows for the use of RMT and microtransactions to make money?

Think about what they've done over the past years-- the Legends of Norrath game in EQ and EQ2, StationCash, the RMT/microtransaction based games they've bought over the years like PoxNora, etc. Taking that into account, no one should have been surprised by LiveGamer coming to Vanguard, or to any other SOE game.

What do they have coming down the pipe in the near future?  FreeRealms which isnt really free  (cash shops will rule as usual) and i think The Agency.  For a company is large as SoE..they should be cranking something new out at a faster rate than what they are doing.  EQ and EQ2 expansions are ok..but yo need something to excite players on a much higher level than Sony wants to commit too.

Free Realms, The Agency, DC Universe Online, and whatever that mysterious "flagship" game is that they're working on, which folks are assuming is EQ3. That's four new games in the works at the same time, and it's damn near guaranteed that all of them will incorporate StationCash and LiveGamer in some regard. That's the direction Sony is going in as a company, so why would any of their online games be immune?

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by bjgladitsch

SOE is grasping at whatever will sucker people into spending money. 

I don't currently play any SOE games, but I'll play devil's advocate for the moment. Are they really grasping at something, or are they just evolving their business model from one that depends solely on subscription fees and the StationPass to one that allows for the use of RMT and microtransactions to make money?

Think about what they've done over the past years-- the Legends of Norrath game in EQ and EQ2, StationCash, the RMT/microtransaction based games they've bought over the years like PoxNora, etc. Taking that into account, no one should have been surprised by LiveGamer coming to Vanguard, or to any other SOE game.

What do they have coming down the pipe in the near future?  FreeRealms which isnt really free  (cash shops will rule as usual) and i think The Agency.  For a company is large as SoE..they should be cranking something new out at a faster rate than what they are doing.  EQ and EQ2 expansions are ok..but yo need something to excite players on a much higher level than Sony wants to commit too.

Free Realms, The Agency, DC Universe Online, and whatever that mysterious "flagship" game is that they're working on, which folks are assuming is EQ3. That's four new games in the works at the same time, and it's damn near guaranteed that all of them will incorporate StationCash and LiveGamer in some regard. That's the direction Sony is going in as a company, so why would any of their online games be immune?

 

And it's been no secret, Smedley said years ago that he'd be shifting the company away from subscription-based revenues to other models: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/11/business/worldbusiness/11sony.html?_r=2&oref=slogin

“Right now our revenue is almost all subscriptions,” John Smedley, the unit’s president, said in an interview. “In two years, we would like to see no more than 50 percent of our revenue coming from subscriptions, and five years from now we think less than 10 percent of our revenue will come from subscription sources.”

That interview was from June of 2007; so those "two years" are almost upon us already; and if anything it seems like SOE might be behind schedule when it comes to lessening their revenue from subscriptions.

Expect SOE to further move in this direction; and not in a way of RMT co-existing with subscriptions, but in a way of RMT gradually replacing subscription-based models. This is their plan, and its been made evident over and over again through Smedley interviews on the topic.

I'm not sure I see how RMT really makes SoE enough money to make a game F2P?  I see RMT as a cost saving move by cutting back on support calls, by providing a secure way for players to transfer items for money.  I also think this helps remove some farming from the game as the transactions on live gamer are cheaper and they are not funded by professional farmer but players, making the professional farming market smaller.  Is there a SoE surcharge on the transactions or is the revenue generated by advertisements?

Anyway I'm just curious. 

I would think that the money maker would be a cash shop that sells items you really need.  Stuff like other f2p games where you can't get good equipment except from the cash shop, or there are level limits and stuff like that.

Originally posted by sepher

Expect SOE to further move in this direction; and not in a way of RMT co-existing with subscriptions, but in a way of RMT gradually replacing subscription-based models. This is their plan, and its been made evident over and over again through Smedley interviews on the topic.

Heh. I guess looking back now, we both had some idea of where this new strategy by SOE would go, although in retrospect, you were closer than I was:

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/134331/page/1

:)