Originally posted by Angie-PvP

Originally posted by illuvatar

I normally try not to post on this forum, since most people here are not here to find useful information about games they would like to play, but more to spread their own opinion about a specific game and ignore other people's arguments if they don't support their own. But some of this is just too much.

You honestly *can't* compare Darkfall to Dark & Light. I played the latter's last beta build for a couple of days and it was the worst MMO I have ever layed my hands on. Granted; the world was insanely big, but it was devoid of any life at all. It was a broken game that turned into a scam by the developers (people paying for this product while there wasn't anything to enjoy).

I have played Darkfall for two weeks now  and I'm enjoying myself immensely. Finally a game where you actually have to pay attention while exploring the world. There's always a possibility that you get killed and looted while you are harvesting or pvp/pve'ing. If you are a fan of PVP and/or exploring...This is your game. Politics are starting to play a role between the numerous alliances between guilds in the game. You can compare this EVE (a lot of the same guilds that play EVE are in DF as well) and I must say it's on of the more interesting sides of a sandbox MMO.

In short: Darkfall is a working game that people are enjoying. It's not for everyone (if you're looking for a good PVE experience, there are much better alternatives), but you can see that a lot of blood, sweat and tears have been put into this game. It pays respect to it's biggest example, Ultima Online, by using a lot of the same features this game implemented.

 

Are you for real? I seem to think that most of you people never even played classic UO. I did beta test Darkfall and I can say that it is not even close to what classic UO was. The only thing that DF has that UO had was full loot and skill based. If Darkfall was classic UO reborn, they would have a massive player base beating down the doors to play. You got to love it when DF fanbots try to lure people into this fail of a game with its bullshit artist developer Tasos by saying its what UO was.

 

I do want to beta test Mortal Online, Talos said that he wanted to bring back classic UO to this generation, we will see. It could be more BS but at least we know for sure that Tasos is full of it along with his fanbots.

Please, try to stay constructive. I'm really not a fanboy by any means. I'm a very casual player who happens to enjoy PvP based MMO's. In the past when I played UO (so yes, I did play UO for approx. 3 years) I was what you people refer to as 'hardcore' if you look at time played on a weekly basis. And the comparison with UO ain't that strange if you ask me? The inventory system, full loot, naval possibilities, reagents, skill based system and the way alignment has been implemented all show a developer who was heavily influenced by UO.

And yes, besides the original this is the only game that I've played that actually reminds me of those good times. Except for the crafting. They tried to come up with a similar system as well, but so far it's quite a heavy grind...

This is just my opinion after playing the game for two weeks. I don't have any interest in Aventurine, so it's as honest as I can ever be. So far I'm not even paying as this is the account of a RL friend who is currently moving between houses. And I can't buy my own account because AV still haven't cleared up the mess that they call Account Management. So that part of the game is severely lacking, I'll give you that.

Originally posted by TalRasha

Originally posted by someforumguy

Originally posted by TalRasha

Originally posted by daarco

 

But in what other MMO can i do everything i can do in darkfall?  Right now there is nothing to compete with DF. And if a bunch of amateurs from Greece manages to do this, why havent companys as Blizzard done anything with citybuilding, mounted combat and multipersonal ships? The fact still remain, all other MMOs fall a long way behind DF. Any MMO you choose to play, you need to step down to reach it (right now).

I dont like that either. But its the way it is . Or name another game that can give me something similar!

 

PS I had to come back here for a while, im working out of town....cant play : (

 

No other company* has done city building and mounted combat for their mmo, because they chose not to. They have not focused on it.

Apparently not everyone finds these features the most important. Multiperson vehicles do exist in other mmos though, wow for example. But no ships that you can control yourself, only land mounts and vehicles.

If you truly find these 3 features the most important aspect of an mmo, then there is indeed only darkfall for you.

 

*I don't know any mmo wich has these features, this doesn't mean that there are none.

Star Wars Galaxies has far more advanced citybuilding then Darkfall. Multiperson vehicles and spaceships with an interior (gunboats) that lets group walk around or man turrents when attacked. It has Beast Engineering that lets you create your own mount.

Anarchy Online has citybuilding, sieges , vehicle warfare too.

Dont make bold statements like that if you havent got a clue. Darkfall has a poor set of features compared to those two games.

Also I think that UO used to have even more features (never played that myself, but what ive understood from ppl writing about it)

 

I think Daarco is looking for a fantasy setting, not sci-fy.

There may be some fantasy mmos that have the features he is looking for, but I don't know them. Besides the multipserson vehicles of course.

Anyway, I think it doesn't really matter if we would find an alternative for him. He would still stick with Darkfall.

SWG is the best game i have ever played...so far.  Since "you know what" happend to SWG, i have been looking for another MMO to give me the same experience. Darkfall is the closest i have found so far. If some thing better comes up, i would play it in a heartbeat. Right now im hoping for MO, Fallen Earth, Earthrise and Infinity.

We can just say want to play a skillbased sandbox MMO : )     No themepark level/class based crap for me : (

I think within 6 months. Seems reasonable.

So if I were to make an MMO were your character has to take a crap every 24 hours to relieve his bowels, I take it would be the next best thing since no other MMO does it right? riiiight???

I really dont see anything that inovative in DF. Maybe you could say that the bundle is, but cherrypicking "Hardcore-pvp-sandbox" features from other MMOs, implementing them half assed and labeling it next gen doesnt make sense to me. Take the phasing from wotlk, this is innovation.

For every other argument... EvE online.

Originally posted by daarco
 

SWG is the best game i have ever played...so far.  Since "you know what" happend to SWG (

Basicly one of the few things we can both agree. Myself, I despise skill based pvp-mmorpgs. it all looks fine till you "max" some skills, then one sees the complete unbalance betweens "builds" and the serie of flavor of the month  that it generates.

Never a form of relative pvp balance (True balance is virtually impossible) was achieved in a skill based mmorpg. The downfall of SWG started there, CU/NGE was just the visible face.

Same will happend to darkfall. On that moment Darkfall will start to go down,

Originally posted by winter

Originally posted by Xemous

Originally posted by Yamota

Yeah kinda figured as much because the reaction I am seeing on these forums are quite similar to those seen when Dark and Light and Mourning were released. Hence this poll.

 

Thats just in this forum

DF forums has like like x40 more viewers and hardly any troll posts such as this.

The people playing the game have found their promise land.  The ones that say it suck dont understand what its about, they look at it from a traditional mmo standpoint.  And thousands more are trying to get accounts.  LOL yeah this game is going down the drain.

 

 Lets see, with a 9 million dollar loan (that we know of, possibly other debts) at what maybe 6% interest? (that would be what 540k in interest a year?) and only roughly 20K players subing at roughly 15 dollars a month. (we'll say 20K at $15 = 360K a year income) Add to that server costs, pay for the devs and other assorted expenses. it doesn't look very economically feasable.

How much did you get in your math exam...Let me guess...A big fat ZERO. Seriously at least read your post before posting.

Originally posted by snowytechna

Originally posted by winter

Originally posted by Xemous

Originally posted by Yamota

Yeah kinda figured as much because the reaction I am seeing on these forums are quite similar to those seen when Dark and Light and Mourning were released. Hence this poll.

 

Thats just in this forum

DF forums has like like x40 more viewers and hardly any troll posts such as this.

The people playing the game have found their promise land.  The ones that say it suck dont understand what its about, they look at it from a traditional mmo standpoint.  And thousands more are trying to get accounts.  LOL yeah this game is going down the drain.

 

 Lets see, with a 9 million dollar loan (that we know of, possibly other debts) at what maybe 6% interest? (that would be what 540k in interest a year?) and only roughly 20K players subing at roughly 15 dollars a month. (we'll say 20K at $15 = 360K a year income) Add to that server costs, pay for the devs and other assorted expenses. it doesn't look very economically feasable.

 

How much did you get in your math exam...Let me guess...A big fat ZERO. Seriously at least read your post before posting.

Uh oh somebodys angry! Better go play DF as much as you can before it closes. Economics 101 is revenue must be > expenses if you want to surivive. 

Originally posted by loxleynew

Originally posted by snowytechna

Originally posted by winter

Originally posted by Xemous

Originally posted by Yamota

Yeah kinda figured as much because the reaction I am seeing on these forums are quite similar to those seen when Dark and Light and Mourning were released. Hence this poll.

 

Thats just in this forum

DF forums has like like x40 more viewers and hardly any troll posts such as this.

The people playing the game have found their promise land.  The ones that say it suck dont understand what its about, they look at it from a traditional mmo standpoint.  And thousands more are trying to get accounts.  LOL yeah this game is going down the drain.

 

 Lets see, with a 9 million dollar loan (that we know of, possibly other debts) at what maybe 6% interest? (that would be what 540k in interest a year?) and only roughly 20K players subing at roughly 15 dollars a month. (we'll say 20K at $15 = 360K a year income) Add to that server costs, pay for the devs and other assorted expenses. it doesn't look very economically feasable.

 

How much did you get in your math exam...Let me guess...A big fat ZERO. Seriously at least read your post before posting.

 

Uh oh somebodys angry! Better go play DF as much as you can before it closes. Economics 101 is revenue must be > expenses if you want to surivive. 

Actually Winters math is off, At 20,000 players paying $15.00 a month would equal $3,600,000.00 A year. He might have misplaced the period, so could be an honest mistake.

The thing is is 3.6 mil a year enough to keep the game going long term if they keep status quo?

Originally posted by isolor

Originally posted by loxleynew

Originally posted by snowytechna

Originally posted by winter

Originally posted by Xemous

Originally posted by Yamota

Yeah kinda figured as much because the reaction I am seeing on these forums are quite similar to those seen when Dark and Light and Mourning were released. Hence this poll.

 

Thats just in this forum

DF forums has like like x40 more viewers and hardly any troll posts such as this.

The people playing the game have found their promise land.  The ones that say it suck dont understand what its about, they look at it from a traditional mmo standpoint.  And thousands more are trying to get accounts.  LOL yeah this game is going down the drain.

 

 Lets see, with a 9 million dollar loan (that we know of, possibly other debts) at what maybe 6% interest? (that would be what 540k in interest a year?) and only roughly 20K players subing at roughly 15 dollars a month. (we'll say 20K at $15 = 360K a year income) Add to that server costs, pay for the devs and other assorted expenses. it doesn't look very economically feasable.

 

How much did you get in your math exam...Let me guess...A big fat ZERO. Seriously at least read your post before posting.

 

Uh oh somebodys angry! Better go play DF as much as you can before it closes. Economics 101 is revenue must be > expenses if you want to surivive. 

 

Actually Winters math is off, At 20,000 players paying $15.00 a month would equal $3,600,000.00 A year. He might have misplaced the period, so could be an honest mistake.

The thing is is 3.6 mil a year enough to keep the game going long term if they keep status quo?

Maybe. Right now I doubt they have more than 10k subs. If they have more it will drop drastically if they do not add another server. 

Actually, $3.6 mil a year, for a mmo is REALLY small. This could and will (if accurate at all) pose problems with them fixing things. First you have the overhead costs, including tech. This alone can eat up a huge portion, possibly more than a third. Then you have the staff to pay and continue to train as adjustments are made to the pipeline. This is where it gets tricky, because it would depend on how confident the heads are about their growth potential. If they higher too fast, then people won't know what they are doing with fixing the game/ adding content and release broken code; which drives players away (see AoC release). If they are too slow, then that means longer hours and usually higher pay for the ones currently working there, in additon to longer turn-around times on patches, which can drive away players. This can quickly eat up more than $2mill if they aren't careful. Lastly, any smart businessman takes some of those profits and reinvests them into their company. With little more than $5 left (if that), I don't see it happening any time soon.

This is all currently why mmos require 100,000+ players in order to even begin to feel comfortable. Depending on how fast Adventurine gets their act together, they MIGHT see 50,000 before MO comes out.

Originally posted by Kainis

Actually, $3.6 mil a year, for a mmo is REALLY small. This could and will (if accurate at all) pose problems with them fixing things. First you have the overhead costs, including tech. This alone can eat up a huge portion, possibly more than a third. Then you have the staff to pay and continue to train as adjustments are made to the pipeline. This is where it gets tricky, because it would depend on how confident the heads are about their growth potential. If they higher too fast, then people won't know what they are doing with fixing the game/ adding content and release broken code; which drives players away (see AoC release). If they are too slow, then that means longer hours and usually higher pay for the ones currently working there, in additon to longer turn-around times on patches, which can drive away players. This can quickly eat up more than $2mill if they aren't careful. Lastly, any smart businessman takes some of those profits and reinvests them into their company. With little more than $5 left (if that), I don't see it happening any time soon.

This is all currently why mmos require 100,000+ players in order to even begin to feel comfortable. Depending on how fast Adventurine gets their act together, they MIGHT see 50,000 before MO comes out.

Add to that the 10 mil Euro loan they have to pay back and you have a minimum of 3 years before the game actually makes some profit, that is if they do that with the 1 server they have currently.

Originally posted by Kainis

 

This is all currently why mmos require 100,000+ players in order to even begin to feel comfortable. Depending on how fast Adventurine gets their act together, they MIGHT see 50,000 before MO comes out.

50,000 is a huge stretch considering people are already quiting because of the macroing/hacks. If they do not fix those then the game will not see more than the 10k fanboys sticking around just because of the name recognition. Banning a few players will not solve this problem. You also cannot judge how many players will play the game for long periods of time ( > 2 months). There is demand right now only because of two things. It is a new game and it has only one server. If they want to maximize their profits they need to open up more servers now, then decrease them later if need be. 

From what it looks like MO will be out sometime this summer if not sooner. Whenever MO comes out darkfall will not grow in numbers past that point unless they change drastic things.

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by Kainis

Actually, $3.6 mil a year, for a mmo is REALLY small. This could and will (if accurate at all) pose problems with them fixing things. First you have the overhead costs, including tech. This alone can eat up a huge portion, possibly more than a third. Then you have the staff to pay and continue to train as adjustments are made to the pipeline. This is where it gets tricky, because it would depend on how confident the heads are about their growth potential. If they higher too fast, then people won't know what they are doing with fixing the game/ adding content and release broken code; which drives players away (see AoC release). If they are too slow, then that means longer hours and usually higher pay for the ones currently working there, in additon to longer turn-around times on patches, which can drive away players. This can quickly eat up more than $2mill if they aren't careful. Lastly, any smart businessman takes some of those profits and reinvests them into their company. With little more than $5 left (if that), I don't see it happening any time soon.

This is all currently why mmos require 100,000+ players in order to even begin to feel comfortable. Depending on how fast Adventurine gets their act together, they MIGHT see 50,000 before MO comes out.

Add to that the 10 mil Euro loan they have to pay back and you have a minimum of 3 years before the game actually makes some profit, that is if they do that with the 1 server they have currently.

I thought it was a 20 mill euro loan?

Originally posted by loxleynew

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by Kainis

Actually, $3.6 mil a year, for a mmo is REALLY small. This could and will (if accurate at all) pose problems with them fixing things. First you have the overhead costs, including tech. This alone can eat up a huge portion, possibly more than a third. Then you have the staff to pay and continue to train as adjustments are made to the pipeline. This is where it gets tricky, because it would depend on how confident the heads are about their growth potential. If they higher too fast, then people won't know what they are doing with fixing the game/ adding content and release broken code; which drives players away (see AoC release). If they are too slow, then that means longer hours and usually higher pay for the ones currently working there, in additon to longer turn-around times on patches, which can drive away players. This can quickly eat up more than $2mill if they aren't careful. Lastly, any smart businessman takes some of those profits and reinvests them into their company. With little more than $5 left (if that), I don't see it happening any time soon.

This is all currently why mmos require 100,000+ players in order to even begin to feel comfortable. Depending on how fast Adventurine gets their act together, they MIGHT see 50,000 before MO comes out.

Add to that the 10 mil Euro loan they have to pay back and you have a minimum of 3 years before the game actually makes some profit, that is if they do that with the 1 server they have currently.

 

I thought it was a 20 mill euro loan?

The article that i read in a Greek magazine a few weeks ago said the loan they got from the Greek National Bank was 10,600,000 Euro and sometime later Tasos went on TV to blabber about the game and the company and how they were hoping to pay back the loan within the first year of the game's release , i don't remember reading or hearing anyhting about 20 mil. though nor did he mention anything as to how exactly are they gonna pull that one off...........

Sounds like Tasos is going to need a greek bail-out...

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by loxleynew

 

I thought it was a 20 mill euro loan?

The article that i read in a Greek magazine a few weeks ago said the loan they got from the Greek National Bank was 10,600,000 Euro and sometime later Tasos went on TV to blabber about the game and the company and how they were hoping to pay back the loan within the first year of the game's release , i don't remember reading or hearing anyhting about 20 mil. though nor did he mention anything as to how exactly are they gonna pull that one off...........

I seem to remember something about a convertible bond of some 27 Million Euros being talked about a little over a year ago. I really don't give enough of a damn anymore about the liars at AV to even go try to find the article.

Plain and simple with 10K - 20K subs they will be gone within the year, more like 3 - 6 months. Don't forget the investors also that want their share of the pie and the normal payback to investors is 10% or more. I seem to also remember that the vacuous Audio Visual wanted some 65% to publish the game (may be why they have dropped off the radar, AV can't afford to pay them to publish.)

Boy that limited income is going to vanish pretty damn quickly at this rate.

There will be a very large drop off after the initial month.  Much like the drop off in WAR after its initial month. It'll be interesting how and when they add more servers and how they may end up straining the small playerbase.

Originally posted by freakn1ck

There will be a very large drop off after the initial month.  Much like the drop off in WAR after its initial month. It'll be interesting how and when they add more servers and how they may end up straining the small playerbase.

I totally disagree with this statment.  There will be a very large increase after the initial month.  WAR is hollow/shallow.  Darkfall is not.

It will be a long term agony... MUHAHAHAHAH

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by freakn1ck

There will be a very large drop off after the initial month.  Much like the drop off in WAR after its initial month. It'll be interesting how and when they add more servers and how they may end up straining the small playerbase.

 

I totally disagree with this statment.  There will be a very large increase after the initial month.  WAR is hollow/shallow.  Darkfall is not.

Hmm you might want to step off the bandwagon and look at it realistically. You just called War hollow but DF not.. War has one thing DF does not, that is pve. Hate it or love it, PvE is one of the major draws for endgame. If you are talking about sieges for pvp, War also has that. In fact the only difference between War and DF is full loot, which is almost meaningless since everyone runs around naked.