Not many people here know what it takes to make a video game... the kind of group cohesion, direction, thought, and moxy required to keep everything from falling apart. Not to mention the funds...

Well, good luck in your efforts.

Here's to hoping your blazing dream doesn't fizzle out at the quarter mark.

thank you. yea we dont know much about it, but we're still going. considering 10 years or so somewhat ago, this was something we were joking about. its just funny how in the past 3 - 5 years or so [and because of the current economy] its pushed this idea to the edge of the plank.

we hope that we continue learning as much as we can to make this as much of a possibility as it can be. every great idea has required 2 things, a creative mind, and alot of money. so far...we have one covered... =]

Originally posted by concepts

thank you. yea we dont know much about it, but we're still going. considering 10 years or so somewhat ago, this was something we were joking about. its just funny how in the past 3 - 5 years or so [and because of the current economy] its pushed this idea to the edge of the plank.

we hope that we continue learning as much as we can to make this as much of a possibility as it can be. every great idea has required 2 things, a creative mind, and alot of money. so far...we have one covered... =]

 

Have you ever heard of the Dragon's Den?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragons'_Den

Could be helpful.

mackerni:

yes we have, in the united states the show is called the shark tank. yes we have though interestingly enough. a student we interviewed from UCLA had given us that tip, however a professor had told me to look into it because of the scandals involving that show over seas.

i have researched a bit of the qualifications of being a "contestant" as it appears to be some type of game show or reality show concerning entrepeneurs [ spell check ] of some type. i've been thinking...even though we have nearly 450 pages of recorded information...is that really considered having your sh*t together? i have no idea. this is my first time doing this as well as many others. i know a few people who run a few businesses and im trying to get their opinions as i know they eventually had to present a business proposal to a bank to acquire a loan to help open their business, how that will relate to this type of thing [video game] i have no idea. everyday on this project is a new thing. every post and email we get concerning this thread, is all new information to us. it seems like no matter how much information you may think you have, there just seems to always be more. but yes we have heard, and have been looking into it...or if it is even still a credited show or is even on the air?

to bad i couldnt farm for the money over night for this project...at least that, is something we know we can do =] or my new post:

WTB money for mmo project...?

Just a few comments:

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Originally posted by concepts
Dungeons - We found it odd that most rpgs now & days dont use dungeons anymore as a exploring tool. Most dungeons are put there just to be there as a next stage to level up. In our worlds, there will be dozens of caves, dungeons, towers, abandoned castles, villages and many other places for you to freely explore. May fortune favor the foolish...

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Originally posted by concepts
Time Cycles: ... We thought that alot of conventional games today make it easier on players by just creating a set type of spawn/npcs/mobs in one particular area. in the reality behind it, you should never know what to expect when you are wandering out in the woods...that kinda takes the fun out of it. we liked the idea of random encounters in the woods. one night you might find a deer, the next night you might find a group of bandits hunting down that deer, and then the night after that, you might find a horde of undead zombies feasting on both the bandits and the deer...

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Originally posted by concepts
Trade System: We will be implementing a very standard trade system. some places use auction houses but we believe that eliminates the fun of trying to venture or create "pacts" to cross into other areas outside of their own. We liked the idea like eve online how they used in game diplomacy to allow others to temporarily inhabit someones area & we'd like to integrate that on a much larger scale. since all factions are at war with each other, you or your group/clan would have to have something very valuable to offer for temporary access or assistance in a remote, foreign area.

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Originally posted by concepts Goblins: small in size, but deadly in numbers. a group of goblins can get skill bonuses increasing their efficiency of traps & snares. estimated to be the most popular race in game.

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Originally posted by concepts
Death - ... there is no real death penalty other then anything on your corpse left behind can be taken by either a npc or mob or a near by player who finds your corpse. we believe because of this, there shouldnt be any really harsh penalty like stat loss or xp or skill point loss. we believe if you spent the time to develop your charecter, there shouldnt be a reason why you lose that. however..for murderous players, they will recieve a small stat loss upon death if they have committed to many sins. people are afraid of losing alot of the gear they have spent time gathering, but with how we are trying to make our crafting system, blacksmiths can re-create items with very similar enchanted qualities to the one you lost which will probably come at a much cheaper price then its magical counterpart cousin.

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And that all for now.

And yes, your project looks imposible, but keep trying.

Just my two coppers...

First, the genre is being overrun by "rennaisance/ dark age" era games. It might be even more rewarding to go a little further back, say- pre-rome, to start. Back before there were large cities. One way to achieve this might be to ONLY have player cities, and also let whatever aggresive mobs that might be in the area, attack that city almost constantly. Pack of wolves roaming about down the square, or perhaps it gets attacked by players from another faction, such as beasts. Battles come, and it attracts the Undead, whom then take over from whoever got it last, but then the city becomes a legendary place for Humanoids to try and reconquer. Basically giving whatever race is defending the player city a slight debuff in doing so. Call it "overwhelming odds" or something, makes no matter. As long as the "ownership" of the city constantly changes hands. That would really make it feel like each race is fighting for survival, and whats more- they can actually end up without a city to call home, because they are all player built.

Second, get some GREAT programmers in. Make sure they have quality mmo experience, because of the herculean task of making one to start with. MMO programming is for the faint of heart, so don't try it at home. Also decide your art direction, if not already, soon. That will actually affect a lot of the programing, and you will find out quick what is actually doable. Higher end graphics typically sacrifices some things, and likewise you don't want your mmo to look dated in today's market. Make sure the artists and the coders are constantly in communication. They should always know what the other is doing.

Also, decide how your quest structure will work, IF you will be quest centered, or more of a "sandbox". Many games out now try to be a little of both without really doing any as best as they can. Ok, Lotro does PvE extremely well, but I digress. Neither should feel "tacked on" in the kind of game you seemed to be describing as your goal. One idea for a "quest line" is to make a particularly noted player/guild the object of an epic quest to find and kill.

Lastly, remember to have fun doing it, and keep your day job until it really looks promising.

My suggestion is to create a single player 3D Lemonade Stand game from scratch. Next, make that game fun.

After that, return to your MMO idea.

hello again,

sorry for the lack of updates. a few of us have went overseas to korea to meet a few individuals currently developing something who had interest in maybe doing a joint venture.

ill answer some quick questions.

duran:

i wouldnt worry much about the loss to much. we are making the system very easy on most item replacements. we are also making magic items behave in their entirety giving the wielder dramatic advantages...and in some cases drastic consequences and reprecussions [spell check?]

for example a staff of ice will grant you the skill of summoning a hail storm, glacial wall, or arctic winds. the perks of owning one is VERY high. the  hail storm will cause projectiles of ice to fall from the skies reigning havoc on anyone within its area of affect. the wall will be a massive sheet of ice which will be very hard to penetrate...and difficult to cast. the artic winds winds will slow and potentially paralyze "anyone" within its range.

we have grown tired of other mmos and rpgs granting you items called "slayer of..." or "beasts something" and just end up doing small forms of damage. we know its a game, but in the role playing aspect, how can you truely compare some items to others with similiar names of lore when they all do "similar" damage.

now aside from your advantages, you will have disadvantages. if you dont meet certain resists, you can potentially fall victim to your own items power. the arctic winds may very well freeze you, or you can become victim to your own hail storm.

we have a suit of the iron maiden, which can potentially reflect a % of your targets damage back to him, and possible ALL of their damage back to them. at a consequence, you will take  pieces of your own damage.

we will have creatures in game, that have a extraordinary ability of blending into their surroundings like camoflauge. you will be able to mimic this ability making it harder for people to spot you.

lastly, runic weapons or quite simply, weapons of mass destruction. the rarest of the rarest & the most difficult to obtain. wielders of these items will find themselves in control of very destructive phenemon or forces of nature. if i had more time id elaborate more on this.

i will update more through the day.

Most glaring fault I can think of off hand:  12 hours days.  

This means that when someone logs in at the same time every day they could be stuck seeing your game only in one lighting aspect(5 hours day, 5 hours night, 2 of twilight).  

The easiest trick I would use since it's obvious you want the day/night cycles to be slow would be to use 11 or 13 hour days so that the day cycle slowly marches for someone who would only log in at the same time every day(since it's not divisable by 24).  I would recomend messing around with a spread sheet to find a better number, or better yet since you're messing with programming learn the date functions in depth by figuring out a better number using those skills.

Atm im working on a game document with a few friends aswel. Both me and the friends are programmers, tho only in top lvl languages (java / c#) witch arent suited for mmo development as we all know ;) Something we noticed is that alot of the different parts needed for a mmo - server/client software - world development tools (speedtree etc) are available but all for either a price or just basicly not good anough. How are you planning to deal with this? I presume you also noticed that either : building everything yourself or  : financing everything privatly arent really viable options.

some updates and answers to some questions.

paul:

yes we have been thinking about that and still havent put a finger on it. alot of feedback has suggested something similiar. as far as "my" own opinion seperated from everyone else on the project, i am looking for some kind of realism. i know when people start using that word, alot of different opinions come up, but in my own opinion, i like the idea of a actual time setting.

many different things came up regarding time. some gamers felt that yes most gamers will spend anywhere from a hour - 4 hours on average playing a mmo, some felt that during that time they may only get to see a single time cycle during their play time. which is why we've been discussing this for a while. its difficult to explain simply because we already have the vision in our heads on what the game is supposed to look & play like, so its difficult to get people to visually understand. in my opinion, not only is this time setting a realistic tool, allowing outsiders the ability to setup hunting parties [raids] based on the time of their area and the in game time.

control is my issue. i liked the time frame we came up with so you dont have hordes of undead and beasts running around causing havoc on a epic scale in a short amount of time. the were wolf is our biggest example. even though he can only transform during a full moon, he/she will be extremely hard to control as a individual. we're not even discussing a pack of them yet. many things come up when we discuss the time barrier. its still something we are working out.

Carr:

the software we're still looking into. luckily i used to work at a large electronic store and they have agreed to help us out [financially] on the software they have or are able to obtain.

fauna and trees we are looking into. there are several programs out there that do a very nice job at it. speed tree is nice, but we are trying to achieve a very realistic look. i like cryoteks fauna and plant generator. it is very nice. it is a all in one type engine from what i am seeing and we are possible looking into that. most of the licensing agreements either lithtech, unreal, cryotek, generally average the high 5 or lower 6 digit prices. money right now has been coming along nicely, but we're still a ways away from licensing a engine. the possibility of creating our own engine has come up many times, but again, $ is the issue, and again the required level of programmers. we have been scouting several schools for junior programmers or would be programmers looking to get into some kind of work. hit and a miss type of thing, but we knew this part wouldnt be easy.

building our own machines isnt that hard since we have a nice discount at the electronics store i used to work at. we also have acquired several graphics stations donated to us by generous parties. we will be looking to setting them up in a office we will be using as a workspace.

duran:

i will have a update specifically for you in a hour or 2

Briefly read it through, some interesting ideas here. Will have a proper read when I get a chance. GL

The ideas are very interesting, but from my point of view this is top down design. In a broad sense the foundation of an MMORPG (in my opinion) is deciding what sorts of accomplishments players can achieve within the game system, but more specifically the foundation of accomplishment is the economy.

Where items come from, how they are created, who creates items, where the components come from, how components are collected, where "new" money comes from, what money can buy, do NPC buy and sell items, do monster NPC drop items, money? Is the economic system open (faucet & drain), is it closed, or is the system something else?

How are you going to deal with problems like inflation? Hoarding? Farming? If you have PvP, why do players fight, what do they get if they win? What do they loose if they are killed? (if anything). Do you have coin in game? Do NPC's drop coin? If so how are you going to remove money from the economy to prevent inflation (arguably the largest problem in MMO economies).

These are just the issues I have come up with off the top of my head. In case it's not obvious, I have spent several years (going on 6 years) developing an economy that deals with these issues in a way that believe is a bottom up approach. All of the design decisions I have made have been made with the overall system of accomplishment in mind. Ideas that give real and tangible reasons for player to fight.
Players engage in conflict for more than just self advancement. Crafters in my system serve a very real purpose. PvE and PvP are both integral and necessary part of the game. And most importantly the system of money and the items in the economy are linked in a way that drives real, tangible player conflict. The system is self balancing. It's open and allows players to make choices.....

One thing I learned after several years is that many designers have ideas for races, and monsters and crafting and skill systems and only later do they try to create an economy to explain how it all works. I believe that the depth of an MMO is in proportion to the depth and scale of its economy.

My most recent experience in gamming has been Warhammer. It was a ton of fun for the 6 months I played. But after a while taking the same objectives over and over, ganking the same people, and farming the same instances is only fun as long as the feeling is that I'm accomplishing something. I left the game ranked 5th in my class. One day I had absolutely zero interest in logging in again. I enjoyed the people I met and miss the social interaction. The next great game will develop an economy of larger scale and proportion.

I have tried to develop such an economy. I have of course found that the economy touches almost every system within the game. The one thing I haven't done, nor will I do is create the fiction. I would like to see a skill based skill system, but I'm open to meet someone that has innovative ideas for skills and crafting.

Having said all of this I will end my rant here, I think your ideas have merit and it's always interesting reading posts like these. I hope you don't interpret what I have written as criticism and if anything I have said has intrigued you I invite you to PM me or carry on the conversation here.....

Talin

Realism?

I can't stand when people criticize the term realism. Then follow up with a statement like, "I'm playing a game, why do I want realism?! I usually point out that there are at least as many concepts in a game that mimic the real world as there are fantasy components. The issue shouldn't have anything to do with realism but whether the concept in question solves a particular problem, or if the concept creates a better game.

Realism for the sake of realism is a waste. I find myself reminding others (and myself from time to time) that the concept in question is what is important, not whether the idea is “real” or not. Does it integral enough to justify the development time. Will the concept in question need ongoing maintenance once the game releases. Again, if the concept is high maintenance, does it justify the developer cycles.

A system that requires players to eat, or a system that allows players to take loans in game. Both ideas, imo, have potential merit, and can be said to mimic the real world, but should not be introduced into a game simply because they are said to be “more realistic”.

Thing i learned with mmorpg . First player in general love to know what to do when they log into a new game.In Ultima online you just *popped* in britain  Or minoc and you was simply thrown into the world .In Age of Conan the Tutorial was simply to much .Since you have to repeat it over and over and very linear until you quit tortage.Some folk love theme park mmorpg but it's was a bit extreme.

In  Dark Age of Camelot in 2001 you was basicly thrown into the wild but in X village.There was a npc standing right in front of you , giving you your *first quest* to get started.After this you had to find those quest because  no npc with exclamation point  showing quest giver.Quest were also VERY LONG and VERY REWARDING .It's was mostly *chain* quest and you had to ask people for direction because the map was not marked .It's was not realy a theme park game but it's had quest that forced you to explore and socialize with other people.

I loved the melee combat system in dark age of camelot and the whole resist and how stat worked.You had to find the appropriate templates.They also had DYE  and guild embleem.I think it's a must HAVE.Because that make your avatar Unique or your guild unique.

But leveling.. Leveling mean quest grinding today or mob grinding.That why i loved Ultima Online so much.A veteran player want to be strong but seriously.Level just make lowbies worthless.So you go into the Level Race crap because you want to keep up with your friend and foe.

Imo combining a good melee/stat and skill system would make the best game possible.Also for the graphic.I don't know why there's no new MMORPG with the ISOMETRIC view.ISOMETRIC view suck less resources but can be very good looking.You need to implement also a good group system.But by sake god.Don't add Auction NPC or trader.I think it's what kill the interaction between player.But Bind on pick it's a must have today.Because it's help to extermine the  greedy asshole or NINJA loot.Dark Age of camelot had this problem at some point.

Also zone chat for me it's getting old.It's make exploration less important.Add a good LFG system but by sake god.Zone chat sucks.Guild chat and alliance  chat it's needed.But i don't want/need to hear some idiot ranting for hours .For me it's a Immersion braker.I loved how Uo worked at the beginning.You coud only talk to someone when you was close to each other or in guild chat.

Man i have so much idea my head could explose.

Before I start I should state that my favorite MMOs from the past were Planetside, DAOC and EQ.

You have fleshed out many ideas for your MMO but it doesn't sound new to me.  Sounds like an improved LOTRO/WOW combo with more depth.  I'm sorry, but for me - that is boring.

I'm tired of NPCs, quests, raiding - I'm even somewhat tired of story.  I just can't get worked up anymore wondering what magnificent quest some new NPC that I see down the roadway is going to give me.  SWTOR, that is hyping the story aspect of their new MMO  might be fun for a bit - but I'll bet that quite quickly the inevitable boredom sets in.

How can you make your MMO not boring?

In my opinon the best way is to create a complex, perhaps even incomprehensible vast world where 3 sides manned only by  players fight for survival and domination.  This can be done in so many ways -

Example  - Your planet has been destroyed by your hated enemies and you are in a transport spaceship trying to escape to a neighboring world that has never been explored as every expedition by your world has met with a quick, mysterious and violent death.  Just before you crash onto the surface of the planet you learn that your hated enemies also appear to have a transport ship that is headed for the same planet.  You land and set up your defenses (this will be your safe zone where you can craft a city and initially respawn when you die).  Next, you set up teams and go out to forage for raw materials for your crafters to build your city.

Neither you nor your hated enemy know that the world you have crashed into contains a mysterious race of beings that have very little technology but can stealth and kill you quickly with their poisoned knives, blowguns and machetes.

There you are - a vast incomprehensible world filled with intrigue and danger at every turn.  Not only from roaming mobs but from the other two sides.  Of course it needs to be fleshed out more, but I hope you get the idea.

For me, that game or a similar type of game has potential for real success.

Zoom     

 

Dark Age of Camelot, Mythic Entertainment [ October 1999 ]  Asherons Call, Microsoft [ November 1999 ]

Two very interesting titles. Each of them using very interesting and unique systems. While still being level based, Dark Age of Camelot used a dual template type design which required you to distribute skill points earned upon leveling up into skill trees you wanted to specialize in. Asherons call stayed conventional but used a magic formulae system. which basically had the player trying to discover his spell through trial and error which was fun and mysterious to some, and painful to others. 3rd party programs fixed that problem later. Asherons call did however bring back the pk. what made AC so popular was the fact if you killed another player, he had a chance of dropping items and you basically got a few of his belongings. DaoC however turned away from the pk thing, and instead introduced RvR or what is known as realm vs realm. Seeing that raid parties was so popular in ever quest, they also realized that pvp was a important instrument to the growing popularity of combat demanded by many players. & found a way to combine the 2. unite the masses for a event of killing and personal glory. Players in the hundreds would invade other Realms [Factions] Killing enemy players. While AC had the popular pk trend going, DaoC had its popularity with the raid feeling form of pvp.

Just for the sake of correcting the record, DAOC did not come out until October 2001.

Very interesting read. First I would like to say that I wish you guys the best of luck. Amazing games have repeatedly come from small no-name companies, and I think that is the way it should be. With that said I would love to help you guys out in any way shape or form. I was kind of disappointed with a few of the features you mentioned.

Crafting - You didn't go into too much detail here, but I feel like a good portion of a game's players either like or hate a game based soley on this one aspect, which in a way could be considered a mini game of sort. As such I was curious of the direction you wanted to take the game's crafting in. Previous templates seem to be in 3-4 different directions:

1. Anyone Crafting - WoW comes to mind, but only because it is my current game. Basically anyone and everyone can be whatever they want in ADDITION to being their "class". This means a few things:

   a) Time requirements of crafting are very small as to not take away from the game's focus (leveling/gearing)

   b) Benefits are small, but good enough so that everyone wants to get a crafting skill or two.

   c) Market flooded with goods.

   d) Solitary Crafters, not too much interdependence.

All these things can be seen as a pro or a con depending on your viewpoint.

2. Devoted Crafting - UO comes to mind here. Basically if you want to be a reknown crafter you have to sacrifice almost all other character advancement (done through skill cap).

   a) Time requirements of crafting are quite large, makes us for the fact that you are weakened when attempting the other game mechanics (leveling/gearing)

   b) Benefits are monetary and fame

   c) Good steady marketplace, with item destruction/durability the economy is pseudo-stable

   d) Fairly solitary crafting still, with crafting being your primary task in-game multiple crafting skills are an option.

3. Optional Crafting - My personal favorite, sort of like EQ2/Vanguard. Basically you can level/gear in typical MMO fashion if you wish and do crafting on the side. The crafting however is fairly involved and doing both isn't typically an option.

   a) Time requirements are quite large, combined with the ability to also pursure combat playstyles typically players will choose 1 to focus on.

   b) Benefits come again as money and fame. Of course with both playstyle available, gearing alts and yourself is also an option.

   c) Marketplace is good at the start, but becomes flooded once combat players get to their maximum progression.

   d) Some interdependence of crafters.

4. Basically #4 here would be Horizons, which is more of a gimic than a crafting style. But I was always very interested in these items which dropped and allowed enhancements to items, whether they be particle effects, stat enhancements or modifiers, or procs.

Either way I believe one thing is necessary... putting the name of the crafter on the item that was crafted!!!! I'll check back after work with some more comments probably...

 The concept is amazing, but the implementation would take extremely long and be really expensive. A day in game should be equal to 4 hours real life, because for 12 hour days some people would only see certain types of mobs and always have the same buffs if they only log in at the same time of the day. I like the idea of your crafting system.

hello again everyone, i will now answer some questions as well as provide a update

for the most part, we have been looking into very many legal issues. some dead ends, some run arounds, and some answers that required money...i knew that would come eventually.

i will admit that this is taking alot of excrutiating work. i dont think some people realize just how hard it is to get something of this caliber going. and technically...we're still in the drawing stage. funds, talent, computers, location, although some of it is already taken care of, it isnt easy to find everything you,i would say want, but many others would say need...now for the answers & updates:

zoomzoo:

how can we not make it boring...hmmm... a interesting question. & if this was a personal face to face conversation, i believe id try and steal your attention for hours.

i think for most developers [especially mmorpg or rpg type]  their biggest concern is the overall playability factor. i really want to answer the question through but the problem is where do i start...

if i had to try and explain how, as i mentioned to someone, imagine playing something were everyday was a spectacle. where the most imaginative of the most bizarre..happened every day. for example, you are in a town square shopping for every day goods, when suddenly a tattered figure comes running into the crowd. he is badly wounded, people try and rush to his aid, but he dies. moments later, he comes back to life as a walking undead. people attempt to fight it, but as he bites his way through the crowd, more and more people become infected with his disease. the # of undead are growing rapidly, and people are dieing everywhere. you try and run back home to seek safety from this outbreak. on the way home, the road is blocked by a pack of skeleton knights, laying seige to every home in sight, pulling victims from their homes, and slaying anyone in sight. still encumbered with the goods you have purchased, you attempt to run back. but fear has over come you, and you find it difficult to move. suddenly a shadow from above, a woman on a mounted wyvern swoops you from the ground. moments later, many other wyvern riders assault the undead army, grabbing them one by one as they swoop down, hurling the undead away from the battle zone.

this is a idea for our version of a quest, except its not a quest, it is part of the games on going story line that happens EVERY day. i think the one thing people forgot how to do in a rpg [which is what a mmorpg still is] is story telling, and the visualization of a struggle. yes we have a story to go upon, and unlike many other mmos, where they do small bits and pieces of story telling through 1`34839048573-91-2820348 quests, how we do it, is we tell pieces of the further story every few weeks and unravel events for the players to experience. i dont understand how some mmos portray a struggle by engaging a [instanced quest] where its you and a few buddies and kill a single npc just to get a piece of equipment.

in my years of playing mmos, i have encountered hundreds of people who did enjoy the game they were playing but felt there wasnt much to do other then grind or farm for a piece of equipment.

we will be keeping EVERYONE on their toes as the project in the beginning does entail a story of struggle. everyday will be something different & epic. we are re-introducing the dungeon as it should be. a place to explore, not a place to go level up in. what this basically means is a place of mystery and danger, with many rooms to explore. hidden treasure, and hidden surprises. one of the things we want to bring BACK is the true fantasy experience, which in my opinion i have not felt since star wars galaxies. i want to bring to you a world, where your game time isnt spent hours and months on end grinding. i want a world, where you can log in, just to log in to maybe see that shooting star you've been looking for, to maybe take a trip to the pond, and watch the glow bugs light up the air with the green luminescent glow. to make it more simplified, most games give you 3 basic things to do, grind, farm, fight...now if you are as good at these type of games as i am, you know that eventually these 3 get old very VERY fast. i want to give you 1000 things to do, so every day is a new day, and you'll always have something new to experience. i will go more into the story thing in a few moments...

meltdown:

Crafting:

We have always believed that crafting is VERY important to a mmo community, in the sense that, no fairy tale enviornment is not complete without a blacksmith. how blacksmithing is important is because he will be a very high source of items you will need in your every day exploration.

now let me explain it like this. ultima online being my biggest example...you are farming a dragon with a very nice pet of yours. there are many other dragons in the distance. as time goes on, you notice individual warriors start trickling in farming dragons on their own. each one using a dragon slayer type weapon...how...fake is that.

my point is, we will be limiting magic weapons to a very small amount. after all, where is the awe factor when you and every other person at the local bank possess the EXACT SAME ITEM! nothing would be rare...

instead we want players to rely on a very VERY well trained blacksmiths enhanced wares he/she has for sale, giving the user many similiar abilities a magic weapon or armor would have given them, at a fraction of the cost of the magical counter part.

on the flip side, those who do possess those weapons with odd magical properties will find the weapon to give them very unique abilities. i know what it feels like to farm and find a item thought to be very rare only to see hundreds of other people are selling the exact same item. we want those lucky enough to find em to have something to EXCLUSIVELY show off at the local town square.

Blacksmiths since most of them are limited on combat experience [they will have some, or alot upon going through the war smith skill tree] so they can venture out with some parties or clan members. smiths will have the ability to harvest components which they will need to help create their unique items. example given, soul stones, fire gems, crystalline shards, basilisk venom & skin, reapers bark, serpentine scales, all are examples of components needed for smiths to give their items unique properties. a well trained smith can add 1 unique ability to a weapon. where a forge master can add up to 3 unique abilities to a weapon, and a single unique property to armor.

some items will take a few moments to make, while others will require a considerable amount of time. one of the more interesting craftables in game is what we call a guardian or a slayer. a forge master can take any weapon and embed a soul stone[s] in it, giving it a enchanted personality. the personalities will all have different ab ilities. for example, a happy personality might heal its wielder in a time of need, where a curious personality might point the way to something odd or mysterious. and a evil entity will bestow its wielder great power & the cost of something to be talked about. the greater the base weapon is, combined with the power of the captured spirit, will effect the power of the new creation. we came up with this to help solo players get into trouble when their weapon decides to point out something interesting.

crafters have to be devoted if they are going to be good at what they want to do or obtain some of the premium perks the elite smiths have. we did give the blacksmiths enough skill points so they can also obtain a combat skill, so when the crafting thing gets slow or repititive, they can venture out with clan mates or local groups. as far as money and fame goes, i believe that pretty much comes with the class. crafted weapons and armor will be in high demand with the amount of control we are putting on magic equipment. blacksmiths and merchants will be able to setup multiple shops through multiple towns and cities, helping to increase their money potential.

weapon decay we have talked about alot. but i guess in a related area, in some cases standard weapons can be instantly destroyed pending on the circumenstances. there will be alot of upkeep on your weapons and armor.

last one for you is, if im not mistaken, i thought i posted here, we are giving smiths a way to leave a "business card" type emblem on their wares. we are giving the smiths the ability to forge their symbol on their items, so people know where the excellence of the item came from. the anamorphing technology is available, but i believe most developers didnt see a real use for it [other then some fps type games]

talin:

alot of ground to cover with you.

economy. items [craftables] can be purchased from either a player crafter or npc crafter. npc merchants also buy player crafted items, materials and components you find out in the world during your exploration. npcs will sell about 90% of the games materials and building components while the last 10% are rare materials/components harvested or found in the world. 100% of standard craftable weapons and armor can be purchased from npc black smiths, as well as standard enchanting services. higher quality weapons and armor and high quality enchanting services must be performed by a elite player smith. it is from the npc blacksmith fees that player smiths will set their prices around. as far as "item inflation" goes, that is something no one really has control over. if alot of people are dieing, and alot more equipment is going with them, sooner or later materials become scarce, and the fee for such things goes up. a good merchant/crafter will have a good stock pile. mmo economies are generally always player driven since you are buying direct from the crafter/builder. as a person of the community, or a well paying customer, it is entirely up to you on who you buy from, and how well of a relationship you and your seller work upon. uo, eve online, swg, are some of the bigger examples on customer/business relations. a sellers price maybe different for you when compared to others because of your good business standing or what you have to offer.

now to answer some of your simpler questions. material resources like steel, cloth, twine, leather can all be obtained by harvesting them in the real world. some of the rarer types you will obtain by harvesting certain creatures or rare trees, plants, mines, etc etc found out there during your travels. harvesting is done by the use of a skill and tool. npcs buy and sell items. npcs/mobs/creatures drop items, materials and yes gold. i will get into more detail about item drops in a bit.

Hoarding is something again, i dont know if anyone can actually control. if you mean by crowd and item control to avoid clutter and server lag, maintenance etc etc, we have already discussed a npc in town who will accept 5 of your items in exchange of something much better. or can always sell em to the crafter npcs. either way i dont see a way of really controlling this.

Or if you meant Hording, as in spawn camping, we have a few surprises to keep spawn camping parties on check. over spawn is a good method of crowd control, as well as alerting other types of mobs/npcs to your activities in the area. remember that we said we were aiming for some form of realism. and that goes for the eco system. if one area is farmed or camped to much, other npcs/mobs/creatures may become aware of it, and begin to patrol or stalk the area. this may take days for phenemenon like this to occur, but when it does happen, groups will have to adjust accordingly to meet its dangers.

pve,pvp...the 2 biggest daily driven influences in a mmo. the driving force behind pve is self explanatory. i dont think i need to explain that. pvp...as we mentioned, we are ENCOURAGING people to pvp/pk. pvp is VERY sensitive to most people. even more sensitive when the risk of loss is generally pretty substantial. some people pvp just to do it. some people need a driving force behind [myself, as well as many others] it. since todays conventional mmo simply just gives you a goofy title and "say" you killed he/she, leaving you with nothing "physical" to merit your victory, challenge, or confrontation.

with us, when you die, all of your belongings on you, stay behind with your corpse, thus as a danger of being stolen or "looted" by anyone near by or comes into discovery of the corpse. this right here...is more then enough incentive for anyone to want to pvp/pk someone from a rival guild, opposing faction, or just some random care bear showing off his new boots...

at this point, many people are already discouraged, which is why we put so many random anomalies into effect. for starters, there is good/evil karma points. consider this as a entry way into a hidden in game faction. you use your points to impress a in game deity/god/entity for favors, bonuses, or in game items. example given, a evil deity in game might sell you a few nice weapons or summon to you followers or creatures to do your bidding, while good entities give you stat buffs, enchantments and things of that nature. very evil players might want to be careful through the game time as their evil actions might obtain the attention of a entity not to fond of their current activities and might influence certain chain of events.

we've done alot to try and control the pk craze, we happily welcome the mischief, but we have every means of a form of control. another thing we put into effect is, alot of pks generally wait for you to engage in some form of activity like wait until you have aggro of a particular mob, then strike while your distracted. another form of realism we put into effect is, if another player steps into the scene [like a pk] and attacks, he might startle parts if not the entire mob, and cause the aggro to fall on him, creating a new type of danger for him.

for the last part, i want to talk about my idea about realism. my idea of realism is to keep the games game mechanics in check with a very stable enviornment. we want the game to be a game but want certain aspects of it to be a little different, so everyone can have fun on a equal scale.

for example...129847283 of us are on a raid [i hate that word, but thats what the community knows] and we are hunting a dragon. the dragon breathes fire on all 129847283 of us. there should be no surprise why some of us...in that fire, become very VERY burned[ if not dead], and all of our armor/gear taken a considerable amount of damage. there should be no surprise that when you strike a rock elemental your weapon will take considerable damage or possible destroyed.

theres a certain level of realism we are looking at as the stated example above lists. like here, you wont find any deer or wolves who somehow found a way to carry 9 gold coins, and a piece of armor. instead, you will skin the pelts from creatures like this, and sell em to player crafters or npc crafters/merchants.

last time i checked [researched] dragons didnt have pockets either...so you wont find them carrying gold..however, we have a nice system creatures of this caliber. from time to time, dragons might become over populated or a nuisance to neighboring kingdoms or local lords, and may call upon would be heroes to slay creatures of such lore for a hefty bounty, fame, and possible land. upon discovering and killing the dragon, you might find that it might have been guarding a large heep of treasure as well. harvesting the tough scale hides of the dragon might prove to be extremely valuable among crafters, since components of this caliber are extremely rare.

to make things a bit easier, we are allowing players [provided they have the required reputation & gold] hire npcs to help them during their journeys. a nice added touch is, we are allowing players to outfit their npcs with their own equipment, making their npcs twice as effective and making it more difficult for them to become a easy target for pks. npcs will range from warriors, archers, and healers. nothing exotic like tamers or mages.

as far as your coin thing, which i think your getting to how are we going to deal with gold farmers/sellers we have a few methods in mind. its hard to really control that kind of thing, but we did make it so its very difficult to obtain actual gold. like above, many of the things you encounter will not drop gold. instead you will have to sell those found items to a npc merchant or player merchant/crafter, making it a process to obtain the actual gold. we're not saying it wont be worth it, but with the amount of player involvement, we think it will make it a bit harder for sellers to do this kind of thing online, considering most people who do this [bot] and with the amount of hunters [pks] running around, i dont think we have much to worry about this kind of problem. we are not under estimating it, but rest assured, we have alot of unique ideas on how to catch and stop these people. one, banning ip addresses and banning credit card #'s from those proven to be people of that nature. we do believe people like this dramatically unbalance the balance of the in game economy, and is one of our highest priorities. any ideas are greatly welcome.

as far as criticism goes, we dont see it as that, we see it as everyones opinions. we have stated from the beginning that this was something we wanted to give back to the community. a mmo of epic proportions and experience which so manydevelopers have abandoned in exchange for simple game play and graphics. lets be honest, we're all looking at threads like this because we are ALL looking for that new hopeful mmo to call home. it is the reason why so many of us have so many opinions on what we like or dont like because we are all looking for something unique and for something to call our own. despite the many grievances we have had about our open pvp policy and open loot, and this and that, i need to remind everyone that before the other half of us became mindless, murderous brigands, we were all once adventurers. we were all once caught up in a game we all loved, wether its the very long impatient horse rides from daoc,  the frantic 20 minute run for your life type chase of ultima online, or the epic kimogila hunts or hilarious camp stories from swg...[including the ones that include those idiots who run into your camp with a angry mob of 50 of those little tribesman things from endor...yes...we all remember those...] the point is, we all have experiences that we dont find anymore, stories that simply just stay as stories, never to be relived. that is our goal here. to combine every experience there is and combine them back into one epic project.

drag9999:

the time thing we are still tinkering with, but it wont effect what types of spawns you will see. it will just effect "where" you might see it. example given, ogres might leave their caves at night to hunt in a near by forest for food, while in the day, they stay in their caves or shelters to stay cool.

suprez:

alot of information for you.

we are not using a global chat system. we are using a zone chat if you will, basically the only ones who can hear you, are those near you. the LFG system we are [thinking] about abandoning for a few reasons. i think one of the things that alot of rpgs ruined is the whole experience about being in the right place at the right time. LFG systems & global chat eliminated what pubs, town bulletins, and clan meetings was all about. a gathering of the masses. if you were looking for something to do, most people just looking in a chat "channel" just to see what everyone was doing, thus eliminating the need to venture into the local pub or check the local bulletin board on some of the things that have been happening or is about to happen. chat channels have eliminated certain buildings of having to be there, like the pub, will perhaps be again a place where you, your friends and a bunch of people can now look forward to visiting again just simply have a good time and chat. the town square will now be a place where the local lords or game wardens will place their interests for adventurers for hire. people will now gather at bulletin boards to see what people have been writing about the things they have seen or witnessed like "were wolf attack at...." or " zombie outbreak at...." & things of that nature. chat channels have taken all the fun out of exploration because some random guy was in there to instantly tell you "it wasnt worth it" eliminating your chance of experiencing what it is like out there. one mans garbage is another mans treasure. what seemed dull to him, might have been exciting to you so go out there and travel.

we also didnt like zone chat and LFG systems as it was a very big sign for pks saying "HERE WE ARE, COME AND GET US" making it very easy for them to find potential targets. we believe there is a certain amount of work for everything. if your gonna pk, you should go out and find it. so even if the 2 of you are in a dungeon, he cant tell your there, even if your talking unless he gets close enough to hear the sound of battle. we also didnt want pks knowing the exact # of people there. so its always a risk for him/her going out there looking for trouble.of course...this is all still in discussion. we may just go with a global/area type chat system with a very simple and detailed LFG/party system.

Guilds we are giving them the option of designing their own clan symbol with a very elaborate system of standard numerics, alphabet, & symbols/icons. your clan/guild symbol will appear [optionally] on equipment, mounts, clan flags, clan hall displays, & vendors for identification purposes.

Looting. when a creature/mob/npc/player is killed their body falls to the ground. to examine the contents of the corpses body, you simply double left click the corpse, opening a window displaying anything in the corpses inventory. we liked it like this because it creates a sense of anxiety as you want to see what kinda goodies your adversary or...[prey] has left behind..yes there will be the ninja looter phenemenon thing going...but what mmo isnt complete without one of those dip@#%!s.

Combat is where we are very different. but before we get into this, lets talk about a bit on how we want the visual aspect of the game to be. for starters, we want the game 3rd person. 1st person will be implied to archer classes only [and limited pending on the skill set of the archer] no twitch type reflexes here...leave that to the first person shooters..why people tried to bring that here...i dont know. last thing i want to see is a mage bunny hopping all over a warrior while casting fire balls at him...ummm no..

a game that has inspired alot of my visuals was a game called assassins creed. now, my visual involves the sprites and models to obviously be a bit bigger, but i felt that when i saw this game, alot of the enviornment seemed to be sized to match a real life enviornment, which i think is a important tool when you are trying to immerse the player deeper into the enviornment & surroundings. sound is another thing we are HEAVILY looking into. i am a audiophile and am really big on sound and music. the combination of the two is the driving factor behind how deep you fall into the experience. music and sounds set up the ambience, and mood.

for example a party of 5 people are exploring a desocrated hall. they can see absolutely nothing around them. the only light provided is from the torch being held up by the warrior up front who is walking behind is shield while the others follow behind him. the only thing guiding them other then the low amount of light they have, is the eerie sound of moaning & groaning that is heard in the distance. they are trying to close in on it but the many shadows moving around in the background make it difficult to acsertain the location of the sounds. the eerie sounds combined with a pulsing orchestral sound track can shut down the higher functions of the brain and turn on the more primitive, primal instincts such as fear, and survival, causing those who play with surround sound, to often look in the direction of the speaker that just emitted the scary sound. in game, certain poltergeist mobs will knock and create sounds to trick you into investigating that area. turning you and your party into a bunch of ghost hunters. and when the sounds arent getting to you, the haunting visuals will, and when the time comes, maybe you as the player will be to afraid to do anything as you are encumbered with fear. it is these type of experiences that we are after. and are doing alot of studying to achieve this goal.

Combat is a very intricate involving alot of player involvement. and i will dedicate a entire post to this when i have more time.

Emilia:

no you are not the only asking about this in emails, there are many people asking about tamers. and i will try and fill in as much possible.

for one, tamers have always been a solitary class. it takes to much time to tame certain pets and even more time is needed to pick them out. due to the difficult nature [and expensive] life style of the tamer, you wont find many friends other then other tamers who want to immediately run around with you and die 1345789 times while attempting to tame your desired pet.

another reason why tamers are generally a solo class is, they are generally capable of soloing very efficiently by themselves, and have very little need for other companions other then their pet. tamers or [hunters] now and days are only seen in parties to take down very elaborate, very large and very difficult raid mobs. with us, the tamer will once again be able to solo just about anything they want to pending on the success of the tamer and the training of his/her pet.

i recieve many letters from people concerned with the tamer class. both concerned and curious. realism...again is what im after. in reality...if you owned a fully grown, trained dragon...how many things in life do you think is capable of stopping you? next to none...on the flip side...just how easy do you think it is to acquire one? on a even harder note, how DIFFICULT is it to train, and raise one?

like the traditional systems, you obtain a pet by either taming one in its infancy stage [baby], or hatching a egg. there are some that are summoned via magical invocations, and a few other hidden secrets in game.

that is pretty much as text book as we get. the training and raising stage, is completely designed to keep the tamer busy 24/7. a few nice touches completely original to our own, is the fact that pending on the location and circumstances that happen to your pet during its development and training phase, will affect its over all personality & temperment. for example, if you died alot or got harmed alot during its development and training, or have placed it in many violent situations, your pet may develop a rather aggitated or aggressive personality. not liking anyone, or anything near it or you. having a aggressive or aggitated pet has some perks as well as some negatives. aggitated and aggressive pets tend to become enraged. while enraged, they will rarely obey commands, but will deal double their normal damage. while enraged, they will also take less damage, but use up more stamina. in enraged status, they also dont learn as fast. the normally mild and stable pets learn faster but are generally weaker.

pets also have abilities that need to be learned & perfected. pets also need to be well kept and fed. the larger the pet, the more its gonna eat, and chances are, will require ALOT of feeding. what you feed your pet or whatever diet it is on will also affect its growth spurts, and stat development. some examples of certain pets abilities. the wyvern for example is alot smaller, and much more agile then the larger dragon counter parts. the wyverns will have a nice inside swift attack that initiates a quick bite of their target. they can also induce a small streaming amount of fire upon a single target. the wyvern is more classified as a harrasser type, a in and out type of combat pet. the dragon being much larger, is obviously more clumsy, but makes up for it with sheer power. the dragon can spit a ball of fire like a ranged projectile inducing alot of damage to anyone or anything in its area of affect. it can also breathe a large stream of incinerating fire dramatically burning anyone around him/her. both pets can bite, but the larger dragon can also pin down a target with its paws for x amount of time. either subdueing the target, or trapping it for its sinister intentions. while both pets can also pick up targets to transport or hurl them as a ball, the wyvern is limited to small targets because of its size, where the dragon is capable of grabbing and lifting very large heavy targets [like other giant pets]

the unicorn will have a ability to summon near by creatures to your aid, as well as have a very nice counter magic type ability. the milipod is simply a giant armored bug whos only function is to act like a giant armored transport for a few dozen of your friends.

we have given the world to tamers, but at the sacrifice that most of your time, will probably be spent looking after your pet. the way of the tamer will be long...hard...& testing. the most difficult class in game, but the most rewarding.

that is all the time i have for today, feel free to ask any questions.