Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by rr2real

i stopped reading when he thought a pvp oriented mmo would have good crafting

no serious MMO players wants to craft

 

PvPers often aren't the crafters, and in many PvP MMOs the PvP players rely on crafters to create things for them. I don't see anything wrong with a PvP game that also has crafting. Ultima Online did well with it, and EVE Online does very well with it. In fact, it's a form of PvP in EVE Online.

Not to mention that crafting is a major component of a "sandbox" game, which is what Tasos purports Darkfall to be.  Crappy crafting, no fauna to hunt/trap, no trade-boards or auction hourses, no player housing and and no free-form building?  How much of a sandbox is it?

Is it possible to have fun without these?  Sure, but you're not going to be able to experience everything Darkfall was "supposed" to be.

~Ripper

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Originally posted by rhinok

Not to mention that crafting is a major component of a "sandbox" game, which is what Tasos purports Darkfall to be.  Crappy crafting, no fauna to hunt/trap, no trade-boards or auction hourses, no player housing and and no free-form building?  How much of a sandbox is it?
Is it possible to have fun without these?  Sure, but you're not going to be able to experience everything Darkfall was "supposed" to be.
~Ripper

---

I'm not too sure about this one. Warhammer has the crappiest crafting I've ever seen in any game; simple and boring. And that doesn't seem to stop the people who want to oRvR.

Crafting in this game so far seems to be adequate, not stellar as advertised. In that the crafting is good enough to allow clans to build their cities... its more than adequate. Gear wise it may suck, but this isn't supposed to be a gear heavy game anyway. After your city or gear, what reason is there to have crafting in any game? None. So the crafting in this game does its job. There just aren't as many shinies to suit the average gamer, but for the DF fan, its more than enough.

Again, no DF fan wants to sit around for hours crafting crap. They usually want to go kill something yesterday, so if they can get their city up asap and get back out, its good enough. They don't want to trap, or hunt, or play the AH with mods like stockbrokers buying and selling. They can already build their main goal, a city. The masses will not like that but they don't really care, nor do they need the "masses" at this time with only ONE server, lol.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by rhinok

 

Not to mention that crafting is a major component of a "sandbox" game, which is what Tasos purports Darkfall to be.  Crappy crafting, no fauna to hunt/trap, no trade-boards or auction hourses, no player housing and and no free-form building?  How much of a sandbox is it?
Is it possible to have fun without these?  Sure, but you're not going to be able to experience everything Darkfall was "supposed" to be.
~Ripper

---

 

 

I'm not too sure about this one. Warhammer has the crappiest crafting I've ever seen in any game; simple and boring. And that doesn't seem to stop the people who want to oRvR.

 

Crafting in this game so far seems to be adequate, not stellar as advertised. In that the crafting is good enough to allow clans to build their cities... its more than adequate. Gear wise it may suck, but this isn't supposed to be a gear heavy game anyway. After your city or gear, what reason is there to have crafting in any game? None. So the crafting in this game does its job. There just aren't as many shinies to suit the average gamer, but for the DF fan, its more than enough.

 

Again, no DF fan wants to sit around for hours crafting crap. They usually want to go kill something yesterday, so if they can get their city up asap and get back out, its good enough. They don't want to trap, or hunt, or play the AH with mods like stockbrokers buying and selling. They can already build their main goal, a city. The masses will not like that but they don't really care, nor do they need the "masses" at this time with only ONE server, lol.

 

 

sorry, that is NOT what is advertised~!!

In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players.

Darkfall?s crafting system is intuitive, non-repetitive, challenging, useful, fun - and profitable. Using Darkfall?s virtually limitless item creator system, you could invent and be the first to use a weapon as awesome as the Flamefury Raudstaal Battleaxe of Bloodshed, or just make a simple saddle for your horse.

Bring your goods to market using Darkfall?s sophisticated and secure trading system, bringing buyers and sellers together easily whether they?re inside the game or not.

and

Can players make magical items?
Darkfall features an extremely sophisticated item creator, which will enable players to create powerful items, like weapons, jewelry, armor, wands, potions, food and more.
We have invested a lot of time and design resources into creating the ultimate player based economy. Players who enjoy trading and crafting will truly enjoy Darkfall’s virtually limitless item creator system, something never before seen in a MMORPG.

Will items decay with use?
Yes they will.

Is it possible to repair items?
It is possible, with the proper skills and tools, up to a point. Eventually an item will be destroyed after being repaired several times.

What types of items can I make?
You will be able to make almost every item found in the world like weapons, tools, armor, clothing, food, containers, furniture, jewelry etc.

How do I get the resources I need to make items?
You can gather the resources you need from hunting, or from mining the specific resource. You could also buy them from a vendor or another player.

What different crafts buildings are there?
There’s a smithy, a workshop, an alchemist shop, a herbalist’s shop and the mage guild.
 

Can I have pets or NPC hirelings in Darkfall?
You can have pets and NPC hirelings in Darkfall, ranging from tamed animals and monsters, to summoned skeletons, charmed animals and monsters, hired NPC merchants, hired NPC guards, etc.

What can my NPC hirelings do?
NPC hirelings can follow you around and fight with you, they can carry your loot, they can perform skills and spells to aid you, etc. NPC hirelings can do pretty much everything that player friends can do. In addition, NPC hirelings can be given advanced orders such as patrolling your city, looking for enemies, criminals, and thieves. They can be a vendor in your shop that you have set up, they can mine for minerals in a mine, they can go out into the forest and chop wood for you, or stand on the banks of a river fishing for you all day.
 

so to quote some immortal words -- whatcha talkin bout, willis???

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Originally posted by damian7

 so to quote some immortal words -- whatcha talkin bout, willis???

---

Didn't you already give your "I Quit" speech?

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by damian7

 

 so to quote some immortal words -- whatcha talkin bout, willis???

---

 

Didn't you already give your "I Quit" speech?
 

wow, now the darkfallers are just making up random silliness.

go play your persistent world fps in it's pay to play beta state... if you can log on...

sorry, that factual information clogs up your trolling.

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by damian7

 

 so to quote some immortal words -- whatcha talkin bout, willis???

---

 

 

Didn't you already give your "I Quit" speech?
 

 

 

wow, now the darkfallers are just making up random silliness.

 

go play your persistent world fps in it's pay to play beta state... if you can log on...

 

sorry, that factual information clogs up your trolling.

Isn't it funny how, when they are presented with factual information, they attempt to derail the conversation with petty attempts at insults and try to discredit the post not based on information presented but by attempting a character smear campaign?

Its nothing more than how HE feels playing Darkfall. So if he loved it or hated it .. .who cares.  I mean EVERYONE talks about that site lmao.. not

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by Greek_Matt

Originally posted by robertb

Originally posted by Greek_Matt

...

 

... 

Yes I understand perfectly... and it's exactly as I said - for the small population of players who love the (retro) features Darkfall offers, like suffering significant and permanent loss in a game, the other glaring issues surrounding Darkfall are less important. But don't kid yourself, you are definitely in the minority. Just like players who preferred the "good old days" before you could save your games and were forced to endlessly repeat the content until you could overcome that particular obstacle, or players who go on forums demanding games reintroduce permadeath, it's all just points along a spectrum.

The vast majority of players do not crave this kind of repetition or `lost progress', particularly those who have jobs and families and don't have the luxury of endless free time. Good old "risk vs reward" is a catchy phrase, but history has shown that most people tend to tire of it at a rate roughly proportional to the harshness of the penalty it invokes. Not to say that either side is more or less correct, just that one is indisputably less popular than the other.

Back to my original point then: those dedicated few who enjoy the features that Darkfall offers enough to scramble to preorder, struggle to buy and queue to play are so happy with the game they're willing to overlook its problems in favour of "that certain indescribable something" we hear time and again in DF reviews. Fact is, "that certain something" is probably not what the majority of players would enjoy or are looking for, and by not making that clear these reviews are clearly biased.

Understand?

 

What you describe in the last paragraph is usual behavior for anything people are fans of..

You favorite soccer team, your favorite movie, your choosen hobby ..its a sign that you happy with, see future excitement with it and believe it will give you good experience and excitement in the future so your overlook things you not prioritize..

The vast majority of players  do exact the same ...the difference is they prioritize different things and favor something else ..mostly the common denominator..that is mediocrity..

 

It may well be the definition of "fans", but therein lies the difference between Darkfall and other titles - there are so few people allowed in, and so many obstacles to prevent you even playing let alone enjoying your experience, that the DF playerbase is nothing BUT 'fans'. So every player review you read, no matter how 'neutral' or 'unbiased' it claims to be, is likely to be coming from one of these blind fans... and therefore biased.

Sure everyone has different priorities, but to label other peoples' preferences "mediocre" because they're more popular or different from your own is the sort of sad, misanthropic elitism we've become used to seeing from those players (prevalent in the Darkfall community it seems) who've managed to delude themselves into believing that their way of playing computer games is somehow superior. Stop fooling yourself, it's every bit as ridiculous as labelling yourself a "hardcore" hairdresser or a "1337" florist.

 I just want to remind you that Keen&Graev are the guys that claimed WAR was absolutely awesome.

So take this with pinch of salt ...or as poster before said "honeymoon review"

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by damian7

 

 so to quote some immortal words -- whatcha talkin bout, willis???

---

 

 

Didn't you already give your "I Quit" speech?
 

 

wow, now the darkfallers are just making up random silliness.

 

go play your persistent world fps in it's pay to play beta state... if you can log on...

 

sorry, that factual information clogs up your trolling.

Isn't it funny how, when they are presented with factual information, they attempt to derail the conversation with petty attempts at insults and try to discredit the post not based on information presented but by attempting a character smear campaign?

isn't it funny how you trolls have to resort to dredging up the web site FAQ that has been out of sync with the game for literally years in order to slander the game?

isn't it also funny how you slander the game and cry about how inadequate it is yet you continue to hang around the DF forums crying & whining about it?

here's a clue: if one were to sign up to a motorcycle forum for a while while they try out a motorcycle but then decide they don't like motorcycles, if they continued to post on the motorcycle forum that motorcycles were bad/unsafe/crappy, wouldn't everyone be well entitled to think they were a total moron? think about it.

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by damian7

 

 so to quote some immortal words -- whatcha talkin bout, willis???

---

 

 

Didn't you already give your "I Quit" speech?
 

 

wow, now the darkfallers are just making up random silliness.

 

go play your persistent world fps in it's pay to play beta state... if you can log on...

 

sorry, that factual information clogs up your trolling.

Isn't it funny how, when they are presented with factual information, they attempt to derail the conversation with petty attempts at insults and try to discredit the post not based on information presented but by attempting a character smear campaign?

 

isn't it funny how you trolls have to resort to dredging up the web site FAQ that has been out of sync with the game for literally years in order to slander the game?

 

isn't it also funny how you slander the game and cry about how inadequate it is yet you continue to hang around the DF forums crying & whining about it?

 

here's a clue: if one were to sign up to a motorcycle forum for a while while they try out a motorcycle but then decide they don't like motorcycles, if they continued to post on the motorcycle forum that motorcycles were bad/unsafe/crappy, wouldn't everyone be well entitled to think they were a total moron? think about it.

haha ..well done ...javac

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by damian7

 

 so to quote some immortal words -- whatcha talkin bout, willis???

---

 

 

Didn't you already give your "I Quit" speech?
 

 

wow, now the darkfallers are just making up random silliness.

 

go play your persistent world fps in it's pay to play beta state... if you can log on...

 

sorry, that factual information clogs up your trolling.

Isn't it funny how, when they are presented with factual information, they attempt to derail the conversation with petty attempts at insults and try to discredit the post not based on information presented but by attempting a character smear campaign?

 

isn't it funny how you trolls have to resort to dredging up the web site FAQ that has been out of sync with the game for literally years in order to slander the game?

 

isn't it also funny how you slander the game and cry about how inadequate it is yet you continue to hang around the DF forums crying & whining about it?

 

here's a clue: if one were to sign up to a motorcycle forum for a while while they try out a motorcycle but then decide they don't like motorcycles, if they continued to post on the motorcycle forum that motorcycles were bad/unsafe/crappy, wouldn't everyone be well entitled to think they were a total moron? think about it.

Isn't it funny how worked up you 're getting over a game. Here's a clue: it's not going to change anyones life.
 

Originally posted by Leucent

Isn't it funny how worked up you 're getting over a game. Here's a clue: it's not going to change anyones life.
 

worked up, what? i couldn't be calmer. i'm just whacking cluetards with a cluestick.

I thought the review was very good...one of the top reviews I've read so far. Basically, it was an objective analysis of what the writer anticipated and received, with an admission that he hasn't seen everything yet that the game has to offer.

In the same post, the original poster tried to assign numerical values to the ratings. Here is why those are incorrect. As the review writer stated, he set up catagories and rates them. Yet, at no point do any of the catagories have "weights" to them. For example, he rates melee weapons and combat. Do they have equal weight when you average them? Or does combat have more importance to the overall gaming experience than melee weapons?

So clearly, you cannot simply add up all the numbers and divide by the total of catagories. In so much, I would pay more attention to his final assessment, which basically is his overall impression towards the game.

After all these points, my interpretation is that the game core mechanics are great. Skills need some work, but the system itself is strong. Combat is great, but they need to add some flair to the weapon styles. Graphics is better than I expected to hear, but they could still work on spicing up animations. All all the other stuff (when you can play) seems to be strong with the ability to upgrade.

....which leads us to Darkfall's main problems: Server (notice I don't say servers) and service. The big S's. It's obvious that AV is a poor company, and if they manage to make a profit, they will have the capability to upgrade and add to their technology. Service, on the other hand, may end up their biggest obstacle. They need to learn to respond to the customers better.

My opinion is that we shouldn't try to tear down this small, poor company. They started this race behind everyone else and are fighting an uphill battle. We should encourage them to continue putting forth their game and ideas. This, in turn, will shape the MMO industry to new innovations. And by no means should we reward Aventurine for their lack of good service; but instead of throwing hate at them, we should work to be constructively critical.

Alas, here is what I will do about Darkfall Online. I will continue not playing the game until they acheive a stable server status. I will almost certainly wait until a server is created in North America. I vehemently oppose paying a monthly fee for a game when I cannot log in or have to wait in a queue for more than 5 minutes. These are issues which I feel should have been solved at beta. While I understand they are poor, I can't reward them for ignoring the importance of beta phase testing.

Ultimately, I look forward to playing the game. It seems very excitng with much potential.

Originally posted by Hhussk

I thought the review was very good...one of the top reviews I've read so far. Basically, it was an objective analysis of what the writer anticipated and received, with an admission that he hasn't seen everything yet that the game has to offer.

In the same post, the original poster tried to assign numerical values to the ratings. Here is why those are incorrect. As the review writer stated, he set up catagories and rates them. Yet, at no point do any of the catagories have "weights" to them. For example, he rates melee weapons and combat. Do they have equal weight when you average them? Or does combat have more importance to the overall gaming experience than melee weapons?

So clearly, you cannot simply add up all the numbers and divide by the total of catagories. In so much, I would pay more attention to his final assessment, which basically is his overall impression towards the game.

After all these points, my interpretation is that the game core mechanics are great. Skills need some work, but the system itself is strong. Combat is great, but they need to add some flair to the weapon styles. Graphics is better than I expected to hear, but they could still work on spicing up animations. All all the other stuff (when you can play) seems to be strong with the ability to upgrade.

....which leads us to Darkfall's main problems: Server (notice I don't say servers) and service. The big S's. It's obvious that AV is a poor company, and if they manage to make a profit, they will have the capability to upgrade and add to their technology. Service, on the other hand, may end up their biggest obstacle. They need to learn to respond to the customers better.

My opinion is that we shouldn't try to tear down this small, poor company. They started this race behind everyone else and are fighting an uphill battle. We should encourage them to continue putting forth their game and ideas. This, in turn, will shape the MMO industry to new innovations. And by no means should we reward Aventurine for their lack of good service; but instead of throwing hate at them, we should work to be constructively critical.

Alas, here is what I will do about Darkfall Online. I will continue not playing the game until they acheive a stable server status. I will almost certainly wait until a server is created in North America. I vehemently oppose paying a monthly fee for a game when I cannot log in or have to wait in a queue for more than 5 minutes. These are issues which I feel should have been solved at beta. While I understand they are poor, I can't reward them for ignoring the importance of beta phase testing.

Ultimately, I look forward to playing the game. It seems very excitng with much potential.

Good stuff.

(btw, they have fixed the queue issue, or so it seems. The last two evenings during prime time, I waited no longer then a couple of minutes to get in game. Regarding service, they are strange, but it actually seems like they are fixing the issues that players are seeing, though they do so without comment.)

Originally posted by robertb

Originally posted by Hhussk

I thought the review was very good...one of the top reviews I've read so far. Basically, it was an objective analysis of what the writer anticipated and received, with an admission that he hasn't seen everything yet that the game has to offer.

In the same post, the original poster tried to assign numerical values to the ratings. Here is why those are incorrect. As the review writer stated, he set up catagories and rates them. Yet, at no point do any of the catagories have "weights" to them. For example, he rates melee weapons and combat. Do they have equal weight when you average them? Or does combat have more importance to the overall gaming experience than melee weapons?

So clearly, you cannot simply add up all the numbers and divide by the total of catagories. In so much, I would pay more attention to his final assessment, which basically is his overall impression towards the game.

After all these points, my interpretation is that the game core mechanics are great. Skills need some work, but the system itself is strong. Combat is great, but they need to add some flair to the weapon styles. Graphics is better than I expected to hear, but they could still work on spicing up animations. All all the other stuff (when you can play) seems to be strong with the ability to upgrade.

....which leads us to Darkfall's main problems: Server (notice I don't say servers) and service. The big S's. It's obvious that AV is a poor company, and if they manage to make a profit, they will have the capability to upgrade and add to their technology. Service, on the other hand, may end up their biggest obstacle. They need to learn to respond to the customers better.

My opinion is that we shouldn't try to tear down this small, poor company. They started this race behind everyone else and are fighting an uphill battle. We should encourage them to continue putting forth their game and ideas. This, in turn, will shape the MMO industry to new innovations. And by no means should we reward Aventurine for their lack of good service; but instead of throwing hate at them, we should work to be constructively critical.

Alas, here is what I will do about Darkfall Online. I will continue not playing the game until they acheive a stable server status. I will almost certainly wait until a server is created in North America. I vehemently oppose paying a monthly fee for a game when I cannot log in or have to wait in a queue for more than 5 minutes. These are issues which I feel should have been solved at beta. While I understand they are poor, I can't reward them for ignoring the importance of beta phase testing.

Ultimately, I look forward to playing the game. It seems very excitng with much potential.

 

Good stuff.

 

(btw, they have fixed the queue issue, or so it seems. The last two evenings during prime time, I waited no longer then a couple of minutes to get in game. Regarding service, they are strange, but it actually seems like they are fixing the issues that players are seeing, though they do so without comment.)

This is great news. I believe if the core game engine is strong, the remaining issues are just a matter of time. 

Originally posted by Hhussk

This is great news. I believe if the core game engine is strong, the remaining issues are just a matter of time. 

That is really the bottom line, as far as I am concerned. The Darkfall devs have gotten the core right, imo. I am really looking forward to how this game is going to develop in the coming months and based on my current level of enjoyment, I really believe that these guys have simply nailed the mmo genre. 

It will lose a lot of the ADD crowd and probably not really appeal to the instant gratification crowd much at all, but for those of us that appreciate a challenging experience that really does have a significant amount of player generated depth, I believe we may have found a home.

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Originally posted by Lobotomist
 I just want to remind you that Keen&Graev are the guys that claimed WAR was absolutely awesome.
So take this with pinch of salt ...or as poster before said "honeymoon review"

---

Well, Warhammer was awesome. For the first couple tiers.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by Lobotomist
 I just want to remind you that Keen&Graev are the guys that claimed WAR was absolutely awesome.
So take this with pinch of salt ...or as poster before said "honeymoon review"

---

 

 

Well, Warhammer was awesome. For the first couple tiers.

they didn't say "awesome", they said good & fun, which is a pretty fair assessment.

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by damian7

 

 so to quote some immortal words -- whatcha talkin bout, willis???

---

 

 

Didn't you already give your "I Quit" speech?
 

 

wow, now the darkfallers are just making up random silliness.

 

go play your persistent world fps in it's pay to play beta state... if you can log on...

 

sorry, that factual information clogs up your trolling.

Isn't it funny how, when they are presented with factual information, they attempt to derail the conversation with petty attempts at insults and try to discredit the post not based on information presented but by attempting a character smear campaign?

 

isn't it funny how you trolls have to resort to dredging up the web site FAQ that has been out of sync with the game for literally years in order to slander the game?

What's the reason for the official website to be out of sync with the rest of the project?

isn't it also funny how you slander the game and cry about how inadequate it is yet you continue to hang around the DF forums crying & whining about it?

Slander the game? Would you call the launch perfect? How about just good? How about even calling it a launch with a straight face? Slander? Do you even know the meaning of the word?

 here's a clue: if one were to sign up to a motorcycle forum for a while while they try out a motorcycle but then decide they don't like motorcycles, if they continued to post on the motorcycle forum that motorcycles were bad/unsafe/crappy, wouldn't everyone be well entitled to think they were a total moron? think about it.

Since this is a website dedicated to all MMORPGs, my presence here would be equivalent to a Kawasaki Ninja fan being on general motorcycle forums telling people that they've tried Harleys but still think that Ninjas are better.

Now, if we were having this conversation on Forumfall, you might have a point there.

Since, we're not... learn2analogy.