MMORPG.com Lineage II Correspondent Chris Sides writes this article discussing the state of the Lineage II economy and a couple of ideas on how to solve some problems with them.

We have all seen the extremely high prices for armor, weapons, materials, etc. What has caused this inflation in prices? To get ideas on how to solve this problem I went to the forums and asked people what they think. Some people are happy with the economy and some people are outraged at it. Along with their opinions and my own, I will give many ideas that may help the economic state of Lineage 2. I will also state some features NCsoft has implemented to try and help low-level players in getting gear and not being so impacted by the economy.

Read A Look at the Economic State

Intresting post.

First off I got to say that the economics of this game has changed so you dont actually have to worry unitll you are in you Agrade, meaning lvl 61+, Dont forget to mention what is called as Common items* as I think this is what really help of new players getting gear. Shadow items are just a money sink after the once you get at lvl 40 I think

*common items are just as regular weapons with the exeption that you cant enchant them with scrolls, lifestones or soul Crystals.

Thanks for the reply. I did forget to mention common items and that is my fault. Common items are a great addition to make weapons and armor cheaper. A lot of people don't even enchant their armor. This makes common armor very helpful for those people but the armor loses its set bonus. My main purpose was to show my view points and the game communities view points on the economy and how to help it. I hope this gives people a better understanding and a little more incite on Lineage 2's economy.

I really loved L2 when i played it. I was luck y enough to have a friend and be in a guild who were willing to help me with the cost of gear. But the rediculous prices were always disheartening and were part of my reason for quitting in the end.

I havnt been back recently but the common weapons system sounds great.

I dont see anything wrong with the prices. The people that complain about prices are the people who do not know how to make money in the game. Everything is based on buy and sell. So if prices to buy go up so will prices of items being sold. It will always be balanced.  

Common Items were the best thing to ever happen to this game. Now when I make a character I use common all the way through C,D and B Grade. I have a couple of alts that I am thinking of going with common when I get A Grade. Its so easy now compared to when I started back in C4. There was no Newbie Buffs, No Free Teleports ,No Herb Drops, No Common Weapons / Armor and No Vitality System. It took me 2 weeks just to get level 20 and leave the newbie toon. Now you can do that in 1 hour. LOL

great post, but since L2 is a pvp game it is very competitive. And lets face it, you cannot support yourself and buy the best gear and keep up with Soulshots by just leveling up. You either need to play the market, have an alt, or buy adena, all of them requires work and feels like a chore (except the buying adena part). This is one of the big downfalls of L2, the fact that you cant be competitive in pvp without spending time not only grinding a shit ton to level, but you need to grind to get money. It is a shame that the game ended up where it is now, i come back every now and again to get a few levels, but i cant play for too long since everytime i see how many people are in S grade have botted their way up has made legit levelers obsolete in pvp. Unless of course you are more of a support stay in the back kind of class.

I disaggree with playing the market or having an alt feeling like a chore. If thats the way you feel then that just means that the game is not for you. I have said many times that its a grind if thats the way you see it. I have 4 characters and never has it felt like a chore. Lineage 2 is what it is, its a hardcore PvP game for a niche crowed. This is not a mainstream aka thempark mmo thats meant to be easy and appeal to the masses.

I also disagree with it being a downfall playing the game they way that game was meant to be played since it was released. Its like you came to lineage 2 and found out that it requires time to advance and considered that to be something thats wrong with the game. Thats not true, its just the way the game is.

Its a shame that people worry about people that are higher then them rather then just play there character. Its like this, some people cheat and some people dont. This is also true in real life so should I quit and say that I cant make it? Dont worry about what other people do or have done. Just play your way and enjoy each day no matter what you do. Thats the way this game is supposed to be played. I PVP all the time, I have done seiges and clan wars. Sometimes I win and sometimes I loose but I will never say that you cant be competive.

All calm down! Captain Obvious is here!

Not a bad post indeed, but something that every player in l2 would know. I dont think it brings up anything we didnt know ;o Certainly things will change if NCSoft does something against these companies, but we know they wont do anything. By the way, you forgot to mention common items! ;)

Originally posted by Korvenus

I disaggree with playing the market or having an alt feeling like a chore. If thats the way you feel then that just means that the game is not for you. I have said many times that its a grind if thats the way you see it. I have 4 characters and never has it felt like a chore. Lineage 2 is what it is, its a hardcore PvP game for a niche crowed. This is not a mainstream aka thempark mmo thats meant to be easy and appeal to the masses.

I also disagree with it being a downfall playing the game they way that game was meant to be played since it was released. 

The way it was meant to be played? Lol does this mean botting? The majority of the playerbase bots to level and bots for money, there is no specific one way to play lineage 2. And the "way lineage 2 is meant to be played" has created this bot problem, and it went to long without being regulated. Now we have server merges and every U.S. server on "Light" population.

Its like you came to lineage 2 and found out that it requires time to advance and considered that to be something thats wrong with the game. Thats not true, its just the way the game is.

i know it takes time to advance, i played the fucking beta thru C3. I know how long it takes to level, but compounding it with grinding adena makes it hard for people with normal lives to compete in pvp. Thus bots and adena buyers are born.

Its a shame that people worry about people that are higher then them rather then just play there character.

did i not say this game is very competitive? It is a pvp game and as a pvper i worry about where others are, if they are 15 levels higher and it takes me a week to get one level, i worry alot. 

Its like this, most people cheat and some people dont.

fixed

This is also true in real life so should I quit and say that I cant make it?

this is a video game, i play it for entertainment, not as a second job.

Dont worry about what other people do or have done. Just play your way and enjoy each day no matter what you do.

kind of hard to, since everyone else is in S grade killing me in a few seconds when i try to do i what i enjoy.

Thats the way this game is supposed to be played. I PVP all the time, I have done seiges and clan wars. Sometimes I win and sometimes I loose but I will never say that you cant be competive.

i like the game, and i resubscribe every now and then to get a few levels (did i already say this?) but i am not going to blindly defend it from problems that are very real.

The game launched being hard to level and make money. It did not just one day happened. Thats why I said that the game was meant to be the way it is. You are complaining about the time it takes to advance which you should have read about before even trying the game and found that it was not for you.

You say that grinding adena makes it hard for people with normal lives. Again you fail because you do not grind adena. You only grind xp for levels. Adena is made by playing the market. Again you are complaining about time investment?

Yes, the game is PVP but alot of people dont PVP at all. Its all a matter of choice. You say you are worried about people 15 levels higher than you and I say why? Why worry about what other people are doing? It just does not make any sense to me. It takes you a week to level and I say so what? What are you in a hurry for? Again you are talking about time. It totally shows that this game is not for you and a more easier game like WoW is a better fit for you.

Saying that most people bot and most people cheat is your opinion that any real Lineage 2 player would tell you that you are wrong. You say that you are getting killed every minute then something is wrong. People will kill you on this game only if you are in a Clan War or you are bothering them. Rarely will you get killed when you are just out minding your own buisness. I have a 7X main toon on Phoinex and 3 alts and I dont think I have gotten PKd once for no reason.

I now see the problem. You have not played the game since C3 which was what? Almost 4 years ago? This game is a totally different game now. Anybody that reading this do not belive what the guy is saying because he does not have a clue about what this game is about now. . He is lying saying that he comes back every now and then to get a few leves. Why come back to a game that clearly you do not enjoy.  Dont ruin a first try for a new player just because you did not have what it takes to make it.

Originally posted by Korvenus

blah blah blah i just repeated myself and didnt bother reading what you said blah blah blah

thats all i got from your post. I covered most of your post in my last post, but you just repeated yourself. obvious fanboi is obvious.

I just wanted to point out something I thought of when I read this paragraph:

Quote: "The next issue is an issue that I feel is the worst. The issue is the buying and selling of adena. Players that buy adena are known as ebayers and I expect there are more players doing this than we think. Every time I log in I get at least one tell from an adena selling company. I just ignore them, but it’s the principle of the issue. I assume that NCsoft knows about these sites but what can they do about it? They try and catch the players that use bots and buy adena, but it is impossible to get them all. This is an issue that nearly every mmorpg has, which is very unfortunate. I think the elimination of these companies would greatly reduce the prices of items in Lineage 2."

What I don't get is that NCsoft is trying to hunt down these companies, and the fastest & surest way for them to do that is by tracing the accounts. But if no one reports these people and characters when they're found in-game, how is NCsoft supposed to find them? If you receive a tell like that, why would you not take the few seconds it takes to report the guy?

"Every time I log in I get at least one tell from an adena selling company. I just ignore them..." And there's a major part of the problem. By simply ignoring them, you are condoning their actions and perpetuating the problem. It's against the User Agreement, so report the bugger! How long does that take? 15 seconds? And throw in a screenshot while you're at it.

If more people reported these sphincters, they'd slowly be taken out of the game more and more. We aren't completely powerless in our fight against them, so let's use what tools are there and do something. Is this our game, or theirs?

Sorry but I have to disagree Korv!

I (like tvalentine) played this game since beta....except that I quit in C4 and came back for the recent patch thats given all the goodies to sub 40s.

Granted...the recent changes have improved the game play for new characters tremendously, it still has not resolved the problem with people ebaying, botting, cheating.

This game is about clan based PvP and is hardcore in nature.  After you get over the "ah the graphics are so cool" effect at about lvl 20, EVERYTHING you do from there on out is to level up & get gear so that you can compete in PvP. 

Lets be honest....people don't play this game for the Questing experience.  Dungeons are just another place for your group to sit in one spot and kill the same monster OVER and OVER and OVER agian for hours at a time.  Raid Boss fights are not scripted and require not much more than "Tank and Spank" with a few rotating healers.  All that stuff is fine.....its not WOW and thats okay.  The point is, please don't make this game to be about PvEing.  And if its not about PvEing....it must be about PvPing.  If its about PvPing.....then other people's level, other people's gear, and other peoples ability to spend an unendless supply of adena on potions make a HUGE difference.  Once you get high enough level where your competing for leveling spots...you WILL get PKd or kill stealed if your not in a waring clan.  You will get jumped if you are in a waring clan....once agian...its a PvP game.

I've played with the top clans/alliances and I know what goes on with the top echelon of players.  They let others play their character to get experience while they are away at school/work.  They let farmers bot their character.  They buy adena to get the gear they need to compete.  And if it wasn't hard enough trying to win a PvP match (in a game that puts so much dependence on gear) agianst someone in the best items the game has to offer.....you also have to put up with the healer / support character they have following them around set on auto pilot, using a bot client.

The game is beautiful, and in a lot of ways very fun.......but the people in the endgame are so corrupt it makes it really hard to put up with all the BS you know you have to get through to get there.  And if that didn't kill your spirit, you also have to deal with china farmers taking up all the good experience spots and making it VERY difficult to make any money on the market.

Originally posted by TavisMacRait

I just wantet tp point out something I thought of when I read this paragraph:

Quote: "The next issue is an issue that I feel is the worst. The issue is the buying and selling of adena. Players that buy adena are known as ebayers and I expect there are more players doing this than we think. Every time I log in I get at least one tell from an adena selling company. I just ignore them, but it’s the principle of the issue. I assume that NCsoft knows about these sites but what can they do about it? They try and catch the players that use bots and buy adena, but it is impossible to get them all. This is an issue that nearly every mmorpg has, which is very unfortunate. I think the elimination of these companies would greatly reduce the prices of items in Lineage 2."

What I don't get is that NCsoft is trying to hunt down these companies, and the fastest & surest way for them to do that is by tracing the accounts. But if no one reports these people and characters when they're found in-game, how is NCsoft supposed to find them? If you recieve a tell like that, why would you not take the few seconds it takes to report the guy?

"Every time I log in I get at least one tell from an adena selling company. I just ignore them..." And there's a major part of the problem. By simply ignoring them, you are condoning their actions and perpetuating the problem. It's against the User Agreement, so report the bugger! How long does that take? 15 seconds? And throw in a screenshot while you're at it.

If more people reported these sphincters, they'd slowly be taken out of the game more and more. We aren't completely powerless in our fight against them, so let's use what tools are there and do something. Is this our game, or theirs?

Tavis...people have been reporting them.  They have been reporting them since Prelude. (Atleast in Prelude it was real people instead of an automated program). 

The non-conspiricy theory involves the fact that the game design is super easy to exploit and code was leaked out prior to release.  Everytime NCSoft puts out a fix, the botting programs get a work around and continue farming.  In prelude, 100k sold for $100.  If you ban a full botting party, they go out and purchase 7 more key codes and pay a monthly fee for 7 more accounts.  The finance work in the favor of the bot sweat shops.....they make more than enough money to get right back in the game and back to what they were doing before if they get banned.

Now....conspiricy theorists have an easy time making a connection between NCSoft's apathy toward farmers because they drive down the price on items in game and generate additional game sales & monthly subscription sales.   What a lot of people don't understand is that "ebaying" in Asia is more accepted than it is in NA.  While there are server merges with light populations for Lineage 2 NA......Asian servers are thriving and keep the game afloat.  Richard Garrot (one of L2's original influences) said in an interview that he supported the exchange of ingame items for money.....so that what ever you want out of that.

For the OP....good summary.  But, in my opinion there are only 2 ways to fix Lineage 2's problem......reducing the value of items (which is what they have done for sub A grade gear) or figure out a full proof way to stop all bots and never let them return.

The laws of supply and demand create a situation where there is HUGE opprotunity for people that can run a full group of characters, gathering gold and items, around the clock with automated programs.  Call it hard core if you want.  The only people its hard core for is the people who refuse to cheat.  Its like the mom & pop store trying to compete with Wal-Mart.  Wal-Mart gets to sell stuff much much cheaper because they deal with a much higher volume than the small store.  The small store goes out of business because prices Wal-Mart is charging is lower than the value of the small store's time and effort.  You spend an entire day farming SOPs and get to town to find that all the farmers that put zero effort into getting 10x the amount of SOPs you got are selling them at a price thats not worth your time.

The only way to get rid of farmers is to take away the incentive.....lower the value of items.  I came back to L2 after the latest patch that introduced common items and I did not run into a single farmer group in the sub 40 lvl areas.  Coincedence?  It wasn't until higher level mats started dropping that I seen farmer groups. 

As for the auction house.....would have been awesome back when L2 actually had a decent server population.  The majority of the sell & buy shops in Giran is for farmers.  If you set up an auction system, every city will be a ghost town.......not a good impression for new players who show up and see there is no one around.  Not to mention, you wouldn't have to pay for an extra account to sell stuff if you want to actually play your character when your home.  A lot of people use alt accounts to sell stuff while they play their main toon.  Thats extra money for NCSoft.

Originally posted by RajCaj

For the OP....good summary.  But, in my opinion there are only 2 ways to fix Lineage 2's problem......reducing the value of items (which is what they have done for sub A grade gear) or figure out a full proof way to stop all bots and never let them return.

The laws of supply and demand create a situation where there is HUGE opprotunity for people that can run a full group of characters, gathering gold and items, around the clock with automated programs.  Call it hard core if you want.  The only people its hard core for is the people who refuse to cheat.  Its like the mom & pop store trying to compete with Wal-Mart.  Wal-Mart gets to sell stuff much much cheaper because they deal with a much higher volume than the small store.  The small store goes out of business because prices Wal-Mart is charging is lower than the value of the small store's time and effort.  You spend an entire day farming SOPs and get to town to find that all the farmers that put zero effort into getting 10x the amount of SOPs you got are selling them at a price thats not worth your time.

The only way to get rid of farmers is to take away the incentive.....lower the value of items.  I came back to L2 after the latest patch that introduced common items and I did not run into a single farmer group in the sub 40 lvl areas.  Coincedence?  It wasn't until higher level mats started dropping that I seen farmer groups. 

As for the auction house.....would have been awesome back when L2 actually had a decent server population.  The majority of the sell & buy shops in Giran is for farmers.  If you set up an auction system, every city will be a ghost town.......not a good impression for new players who show up and see there is no one around.  Not to mention, you wouldn't have to pay for an extra account to sell stuff if you want to actually play your character when your home.  A lot of people use alt accounts to sell stuff while they play their main toon.  Thats extra money for NCSoft.

i like your solution, reducing the value of items. Make it easier to get items and gear and you wont have people buying and selling adena. Although there would still be a bot problem, atleast NCsoft could fix the adena trade by doing what you said.

Originally posted by RajCaj

Sorry but I have to disagree Korv!

I (like tvalentine) played this game since beta....except that I quit in C4 and came back for the recent patch thats given all the goodies to sub 40s.

Granted...the recent changes have improved the game play for new characters tremendously, it still has not resolved the problem with people ebaying, botting, cheating.

This game is about clan based PvP and is hardcore in nature.  After you get over the "ah the graphics are so cool" effect at about lvl 20, EVERYTHING you do from there on out is to level up & get gear so that you can compete in PvP. 

Lets be honest....people don't play this game for the Questing experience.  Dungeons are just another place for your group to sit in one spot and kill the same monster OVER and OVER and OVER agian for hours at a time.  Raid Boss fights are not scripted and require not much more than "Tank and Spank" with a few rotating healers.  All that stuff is fine.....its not WOW and thats okay.  The point is, please don't make this game to be about PvEing.  And if its not about PvEing....it must be about PvPing.  If its about PvPing.....then other people's level, other people's gear, and other peoples ability to spend an unendless supply of adena on potions make a HUGE difference.  Once you get high enough level where your competing for leveling spots...you WILL get PKd or kill stealed if your not in a waring clan.  You will get jumped if you are in a waring clan....once agian...its a PvP game.

I've played with the top clans/alliances and I know what goes on with the top echelon of players.  They let others play their character to get experience while they are away at school/work.  They let farmers bot their character.  They buy adena to get the gear they need to compete.  And if it wasn't hard enough trying to win a PvP match (in a game that puts so much dependence on gear) agianst someone in the best items the game has to offer.....you also have to put up with the healer / support character they have following them around set on auto pilot, using a bot client.

The game is beautiful, and in a lot of ways very fun.......but the people in the endgame are so corrupt it makes it really hard to put up with all the BS you know you have to get through to get there.  And if that didn't kill your spirit, you also have to deal with china farmers taking up all the good experience spots and making it VERY difficult to make any money on the market.

The only thing that I disagreed with is that he says most  of the people that play Lineage 2 Bots and Ebays. That is not true. I never said that these problems do not exist but everybody is not doing it. Also saying that the end game is all about PVP is not true. I know plenty of people who dont PVP at all and play the game just for social aspect of groupin with friends and xping. This is not comming from a person that played the game but a person who is still playing today.

Originally posted by Korvenus

Originally posted by RajCaj

Sorry but I have to disagree Korv!

I (like tvalentine) played this game since beta....except that I quit in C4 and came back for the recent patch thats given all the goodies to sub 40s.

Granted...the recent changes have improved the game play for new characters tremendously, it still has not resolved the problem with people ebaying, botting, cheating.

This game is about clan based PvP and is hardcore in nature.  After you get over the "ah the graphics are so cool" effect at about lvl 20, EVERYTHING you do from there on out is to level up & get gear so that you can compete in PvP. 

Lets be honest....people don't play this game for the Questing experience.  Dungeons are just another place for your group to sit in one spot and kill the same monster OVER and OVER and OVER agian for hours at a time.  Raid Boss fights are not scripted and require not much more than "Tank and Spank" with a few rotating healers.  All that stuff is fine.....its not WOW and thats okay.  The point is, please don't make this game to be about PvEing.  And if its not about PvEing....it must be about PvPing.  If its about PvPing.....then other people's level, other people's gear, and other peoples ability to spend an unendless supply of adena on potions make a HUGE difference.  Once you get high enough level where your competing for leveling spots...you WILL get PKd or kill stealed if your not in a waring clan.  You will get jumped if you are in a waring clan....once agian...its a PvP game.

I've played with the top clans/alliances and I know what goes on with the top echelon of players.  They let others play their character to get experience while they are away at school/work.  They let farmers bot their character.  They buy adena to get the gear they need to compete.  And if it wasn't hard enough trying to win a PvP match (in a game that puts so much dependence on gear) agianst someone in the best items the game has to offer.....you also have to put up with the healer / support character they have following them around set on auto pilot, using a bot client.

The game is beautiful, and in a lot of ways very fun.......but the people in the endgame are so corrupt it makes it really hard to put up with all the BS you know you have to get through to get there.  And if that didn't kill your spirit, you also have to deal with china farmers taking up all the good experience spots and making it VERY difficult to make any money on the market.

 

The only thing that I disagreed with is that he says most  of the people that play Lineage 2 Bots and Ebays. That is not true. I never said that these problems do not exist but everybody is not doing it. This is not comming from a person that played the game but a person who is still playing today.

i recently quit 2 months ago after coming back for 5ish months. I dunno if your server is different, but the majority of people on my server bot and cheat. The cheating problem is worse then it has ever been, just look at the official L2 forums to see what "any real L2 player" has to say about it.

What server do you play on? I have heard rumors about the Euro Servers being the worst but I have only played on Bartz and now on Phoenix which is the largest of the national servers.

Originally posted by Korvenus

What server do you play on? I have heard rumors about the Euro Servers being the worst but I have only played on Bartz and now on Phoenix which is the largest of the national servers.

i'm on bartz, havent tried any other server.