So here WAS (maybe its changed, lets hope) my biggest gripe about the game.

The sound and the animations did not sync up.

Either the sounds sucked and didnt sync.

I just couldnt FEEL THE DAMAGE WHEN I NAILED SOMEONE, dare to say like I could in World of Warcraft. Just a small fyi, wow wasnt my first mmo, FAR FROM IT.

Still I wonder if they have done anything about this.

This isnt a hype wow post, however in wow I can feel when I get hit, I feel the excitement when NAIL someone. I really wanted it to be like that in WAR.

Has anything changed in that respect?

Yep, they synced all of the animations and sounds and bars, I could never feel the hits at all though :/

Animation sync has improved a lot, but it's still not perfect, and the devs don't seem to be making it much of a priority. Then again, not many seem to whine about it, which is odd actually, as I think it's one of the big differences in the "feel" of the combat compared to WoW. WoW I think just feels more slick and responsive when you take actions, and visual and audio feedback is more "on the mark", letting you, as the OP puts it, feel the hits.

To summarize, it's better than at lanch, especially if you get the Warhammer Scrolling Combat Text add-on to make the damage numbers bigger, but it's (generally speaking) still not as good as in WoW in this aspect, IMO.

It's improved? I barely notice a difference.

Me and a friend were discussing this as we both went from WoW to WAR and it was easily one of the biggest turn offs to both of us.

Heres my theory and please be patient, its a very "out there" kinda thought. I was reading a book once that was talking about the effect of the blinking/flashing on TV shows and how advertisers know how the blink/flash/(whatever you want to call it) causes people heart rate to raise, adrenalin and how it is exciting and addictive.

Ok I know that was kinda of a jumbled thought but I beleive Blizzard is taking advantage of this(no conspiracy theorys implied)

It seems to me that not only does the noise sync up with the actions in wow, as well as the FLASH and blink that goes along with damaging spells and abilities, the yells(charge etc)---but even actions that take me out of combat reflect the nature of the spell.

What do I mean by that? Ok on my mage, when Im trying to get away from a fight or create distance....blink is a soothing sound. Going invisible also not only takes me out of combat but visually its like Im seeing some dreamy peaceful area where I no longer see my enemys--and Im in safety.

Was anyone able to follow that?

Originally posted by logangregor

So here WAS (maybe its changed, lets hope) my biggest gripe about the game.

The sound and the animations did not sync up.

Either the sounds sucked and didnt sync.

I just couldnt FEEL THE DAMAGE WHEN I NAILED SOMEONE, dare to say like I could in World of Warcraft. Just a small fyi, wow wasnt my first mmo, FAR FROM IT.

Still I wonder if they have done anything about this.

This isnt a hype wow post, however in wow I can feel when I get hit, I feel the excitement when NAIL someone. I really wanted it to be like that in WAR.

 

Has anything changed in that respect?

Yeah, they installed some state-of-the-art software that ACTUALLY jumps through your screen and punches you in the balls! Talk about feeling it!

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by logangregor

Me and a friend were discussing this as we both went from WoW to WAR and it was easily one of the biggest turn offs to both of us.

Heres my theory and please be patient, its a very "out there" kinda thought. I was reading a book once that was talking about the effect of the blinking/flashing on TV shows and how advertisers know how the blink/flash/(whatever you want to call it) causes people heart rate to raise, adrenalin and how it is exciting and addictive.

 

Ok I know that was kinda of a jumbled thought but I beleive Blizzard is taking advantage of this(no conspiracy theorys implied)

It seems to me that not only does the noise sync up with the actions in wow, as well as the FLASH and blink that goes along with damaging spells and abilities, the yells(charge etc)---but even actions that take me out of combat reflect the nature of the spell.

What do I mean by that? Ok on my mage, when Im trying to get away from a fight or create distance....blink is a soothing sound. Going invisible also not only takes me out of combat but visually its like Im seeing some dreamy peaceful area where I no longer see my enemys--and Im in safety.

Was anyone able to follow that?

Yep I could follow. And it is exactly why War is not a succesful PvP game to me. It was gamebreaking.
 

The beauty what you say is ... it applies to all classes in Wow.

Kidneyshot with a Rogue is just more than a hit on a button, you can feeeel the shot going off on the character. Same with healing spells, hits, stuns, fireballs, etc...

I remember the dwarf priest I had in War. I could "see" him swing his stick landing on the ground, but there was a detached feeling of seeing the character do something and the healing that was supposed to get off on a target. I never really knew how and when.

They were animations, they just were complete out of synch "things" detaching you from the avatar you played.

So unresponsive the experience became detached. The clunky movements did the rest.

In War I never had the feeling of playing my character, I was playing a toon, I was NOT my avatar fighting and healing.

It is more than sound though, it is timing, light effects, synchronised animations, etc...

LOTRO has the same stiff animated -stick in the ass - problems but they have the advantage it is purely a PVE game.

A PvP game should never have this detached feeling. PvP is PvP: you fight the enemy, not the unresponsiveness of an avatar.

I have to say Ive had the same feelings on this matter and could not agree more. More important than graphics, number of classes, level of difficulty, ect.... the game needs to FEEL right.

Good Movie directors know how to get there audience to FEEL every emotion they want them to.

Thrill
Excitement
Remorse
Guilt
Exhiliration
etc
etc
etc

Just wondering what a very talented director could come up with if ya threw them in a room with other very creative game designers, programmers, artists, a bouncer(if things got out of hand) and Tony Robbins for motivation of course.

Originally posted by logangregor

So here WAS (maybe its changed, lets hope) my biggest gripe about the game.

The sound and the animations did not sync up.

Either the sounds sucked and didnt sync.

I just couldnt FEEL THE DAMAGE WHEN I NAILED SOMEONE, dare to say like I could in World of Warcraft. Just a small fyi, wow wasnt my first mmo, FAR FROM IT.

Still I wonder if they have done anything about this.

This isnt a hype wow post, however in wow I can feel when I get hit, I feel the excitement when NAIL someone. I really wanted it to be like that in WAR.

 

Has anything changed in that respect?

They must have really tweaked combat then. I just started playing WAR and my Marauder is great. Spamming my AE on those annoying Slayers. The combat is spectacular. Kind of a mix between DAoC and Lotro not the CS controls with everyone running around like crazy people in Wow. Really I must be the only person that thinks its silly for WoW melee to spin around each other like tops lol.

The thread isnt about combat.

Its about the sounds/visual effects in game matching up with the timing of the charachters abilities in such a way that its IMMERSIVE.

WoW does that extremely well.

WAR does not.

I couldnt "FEEL IT" when I hit someone, nuked someone etc

I wish WAR did better in this respect because that was the biggest issue for me and heck, anyone who has played WoW for any length of time is looking for something better.

Originally posted by logangregor

 

The thread isnt about combat.

Its about the sounds/visual effects in game matching up with the timing of the charachters abilities in such a way that its IMMERSIVE.

WoW does that extremely well.

WAR does not.

I couldnt "FEEL IT" when I hit someone, nuked someone etc

I wish WAR did better in this respect because that was the biggest issue for me and heck, anyone who has played WoW for any length of time is looking for something better.

 

I disagree, They match up to me.

When I hit my Number key for my Flail ability my Marauder smacks the shit out of someone and the sound is there to match (if im not listening to a MP3 lol).

If I click a spell with my Shaman I see the animation and hear the sounds just fine. It all happens at once for me, maybe your lagging?

Is it because WoW has those really big numbers that flash when you crit? does that make you "FEEL IT"? I don't see how WAR has poor Combat animations and sound. I toss a bolt at a mob it hits and I hear it.

This is such a silly thread lol, If people really unsub to games because of a impact sound not being good enough I think we've all become way too picky.

---

Originally posted by JGMIII

---

Originally posted by logangregor

 
The thread isnt about combat.

Its about the sounds/visual effects in game matching up with the timing of the charachters abilities in such a way that its IMMERSIVE.
WoW does that extremely well.
WAR does not.
I couldnt "FEEL IT" when I hit someone, nuked someone etc
I wish WAR did better in this respect because that was the biggest issue for me and heck, anyone who has played WoW for any length of time is looking for something better.
 

---

 
I disagree, They match up to me.
When I hit my Number key for my Flail ability my Marauder smacks the shit out of someone and the sound is there to match (if im not listening to a MP3 lol).
If I click a spell with my Shaman I see the animation and hear the sounds just fine. It all happens at once for me, maybe your lagging?
Is it because WoW has those really big numbers that flash when you crit? does that make you "FEEL IT"? I don't see how WAR has poor Combat animations and sound. I toss a bolt at a mob it hits and I hear it.
This is such a silly thread lol, If people really unsub to games because of a impact sound not being good enough I think we've all become way too picky.

---

It seems to me like you took offense like many here do when any game is compared to WoW.
The sarcasm with the "really big numbers" comment...or calling the thread silly.

You honestly took the time to read the initial post and comments?

When I played, which was beta/release and a month after, you couldnt tell when you hit someone. Soft, oddly floating text--- I could of hit someone for 2million and there was no dramatic feel to it.

My wife who has no previous mmo to compare it to told me that when she was in combat it was like she wasnt hitting anything.

PS-I didnt start this thread to pick on warhammer.
I hoping they had made some dramatic changes to the sounds in game.
Its nothing about being picky, it wasnt immersive enough for me.

Originally posted by logangregor

 

---

Originally posted by JGMIII

---

Originally posted by logangregor

 

 
The thread isnt about combat.

Its about the sounds/visual effects in game matching up with the timing of the charachters abilities in such a way that its IMMERSIVE.
WoW does that extremely well.
WAR does not.
I couldnt "FEEL IT" when I hit someone, nuked someone etc
I wish WAR did better in this respect because that was the biggest issue for me and heck, anyone who has played WoW for any length of time is looking for something better.
 

---

 
I disagree, They match up to me.
When I hit my Number key for my Flail ability my Marauder smacks the shit out of someone and the sound is there to match (if im not listening to a MP3 lol).
If I click a spell with my Shaman I see the animation and hear the sounds just fine. It all happens at once for me, maybe your lagging?
Is it because WoW has those really big numbers that flash when you crit? does that make you "FEEL IT"? I don't see how WAR has poor Combat animations and sound. I toss a bolt at a mob it hits and I hear it.
This is such a silly thread lol, If people really unsub to games because of a impact sound not being good enough I think we've all become way too picky.

---

 

It seems to me like you took offense like many here do when any game is compared to WoW.
The sarcasm with the "really big numbers" comment...or calling the thread silly.

I didn't take offense at all and the big number refrence is true actually, no sarcasm intended. Also calling the thread silly was due to someone actually saying this was game breaking since I think todays MMO players are way too picky now.

You honestly took the time to read the initial post and comments?

Of course.

When I played, which was beta/release and a month after, you couldnt tell when you hit someone. Soft, oddly floating text--- I could of hit someone for 2million and there was no dramatic feel to it.

Well I just started playing so I guess they fixed that. Im having a great time, maybe you should try the trial to see if the game improved?

My wife who has no previous mmo to compare it to told me that when she was in combat it was like she wasnt hitting anything.

I don't get that feeling at all, they recently talked about UI response times and fixing casting lag. Have her try it out as well I seriously don't see a problem with the combat anmations or sounds at all.

PS-I didnt start this thread to pick on warhammer.

I didn't say you did
I hoping they had made some dramatic changes to the sounds in game.

Try the trial.
Its nothing about being picky, it wasnt immersive enough for me.

If the combat was really out of sync then yeah I can see a problem but right now I can't seriously see how anyone could say WARs combat is out of Sync at all. I personally feel the combat in WAR is better then Lotro and EQ2 (i liked DAoC combat more though).

I've been playing MMOs for a while and Combat, animations and sound effects are not weak points when it comes to WAR.

This was the only MMO I had to watch my hotbar and verify the move I just used went on cooldown... Otherwise I had no idea if I had used it cause the scrolling combat text, animations nor sound would sync as I pressed an ability.

The game is trash.

---

Mythic Forums: ColinS :

Mythic Developer 03-17-2009 06:57 PM

Hello All –

I frequently will take some time from my day to pause and read through the forums because, as we all do here at Mythic, I value the opinion of our players and what they think or feel about the game. For anyone that works in the games industry – particularly in the field of MMOs – you know it’s a labor of love, not a classic 9-to-5 job. We work on games because we are passionate about them, we care about our players, and at our core we are gamers through and through.

When I stumbled upon this post I felt compelled to break a long standing silence that I’ve maintained and talk to the group not just as Technical Director for Warhammer, but as an avid fan.

First off, I thought I would touch on the specific LUA script code in question which has become a topic of much discussion. The comment block found within the script is not just inappropriate it is also just simply wrong. The intent behind the calculation was to compensate for the up-and-downstream latency between you and the server; the goal of this exercise was to provide you more accurate feedback as to when the spell would cast, including latency. When the bar fills, the spell is cast, period.

This change was initially done to combat complaints about a “delay” from when the bar completely filled and when the spell would actually fire. Based on the feedback I have read thus far in this post, it seems many of you would much rather have the delay. This actually aligns with our internal user focus groups and testing, which is why this compensation was removed several weeks ago from the development line of the game.

What is latency?

You probably hear us sling this word around, but what does it really mean?! Latency is beast we all battle when working on any multiplayer network games; we all suffer from it and use various different techniques to alleviate its impact on the overall play experience. Latency is also the wild cannon that we don’t have any control over, we are basically at the mercy of the Internet Gods that exists between your router, the multiple hops you make through hubs, before you finally reach our data center.

For the morbidly curious, fire up a command shell on Windows box (or if you’re like me fire up a secure shell connection to your Linux box), and issue a tracert (/bin/traceroute under Linux; though some flavors do create a symlink to traceroute called tracert) to your favorite domain. (E.g. tracert foobar-domain.com).

This diagnostic utility basically prints out each “hop” that your network needs to take to reach a specified destination. A hop is literally a separate computer/system that your data is routed through as it makes its way to its final destination. You may be surprised to see how many systems you hop through on average before you reach your final destination (I will wager you easily hop through 10 or more systems to reach most destinations), and each one of those hops add their little bit to your overall latency time.

So that is the beast we are dealing with. And its overall impact on the game can vary dramatically, and can vary significantly from one user to the next. Even under “good” network conditions we can often see one-way latency as high as 250 milliseconds, which mean your roundtrip time can be 500 milliseconds or more. That’s a one-half second of delay or more, ouch!

That’s great and all, but now what?

Several of us have been keeping tabs on the comments surrounding casting lag and concerns of the like, and we’ve had a group of engineers working through the issues that have been posted. Mark and I have personally sat down and discussed this problem on several occasions; and I cannot stress enough that this issue is a top priority in Mark’s mind, Jeff’s mind, and mine, so it’s had full attention starting from the top on down.

We have some updates that have just entered our internal testing process and play test evaluation. These changes will be rolling up to the Public Test server as a part of our 1.2.1 version update. You will definitely hear more from us when these changes go up. I strongly encourage you to be amongst the player who test these changes when they go up on the Public Test server. Tell us, what’s good, but more importantly tell us what we can do better.

It is through your feedback that we can continue to make Warhammer a fantastic game.

---

Just to head that off at the pass, before people get testy.. this was released just today. There IS a problem with timing and casting lag in the game that has been there since beta and hasn't been fixed. This is a rebuttal post on their site to someone who posted they found a solution to it, and posted it on several other sites.

So, the OP is right there is delay, which inhibits immersion for plenty of people and affects play "feel". It is #1 on most upper tier player's beef list for Mythic to get fixed and is quite annoying, even more than class balances for them. But some people play and it doesn't concern them much, usually people who just started and don't notice it yet.

I don't know what you all are talking about, when I'm playing my two BOs, I can feel like I'm doing it. Like when I smack someone with my shield, it just looks brutal, and sounds brutal I could actually feel myself taking my left arm and smacking him in the face with it. Then when I block with my shield, I hear the ting noise, and see my character flinch back behind his shield, I also feel that. On my two hander, when I use Da Big 'un, I also feel it, I jump up in the air, and hear him crash the ground with my giant axe, then goes out the shockwave and I see all the enemies flinch back that were in the cone. It also happens when I parry, I hear that thudding noise when I parry on my two hander, because he parries with the shaft of the axe. And when I use right in the jibblies, oh boy do I feel like I'm realling knocking them up.

So, in my conclusion, I guess it's all a matter of opinion, but I feel my character. Guess you don't.

---

Originally posted by logangregor

 

---

Originally posted by JGMIII

---

Originally posted by logangregor
 
 
The thread isnt about combat.
Its about the sounds/visual effects in game matching up with the timing of the charachters abilities in such a way that its IMMERSIVE.
WoW does that extremely well.
WAR does not.
I couldnt "FEEL IT" when I hit someone, nuked someone etc
I wish WAR did better in this respect because that was the biggest issue for me and heck, anyone who has played WoW for any length of time is looking for something better.
 

---

 
I disagree, They match up to me.
When I hit my Number key for my Flail ability my Marauder smacks the shit out of someone and the sound is there to match (if im not listening to a MP3 lol).
If I click a spell with my Shaman I see the animation and hear the sounds just fine. It all happens at once for me, maybe your lagging?
Is it because WoW has those really big numbers that flash when you crit? does that make you "FEEL IT"? I don't see how WAR has poor Combat animations and sound. I toss a bolt at a mob it hits and I hear it.
This is such a silly thread lol, If people really unsub to games because of a impact sound not being good enough I think we've all become way too picky.

---

 
It seems to me like you took offense like many here do when any game is compared to WoW.
The sarcasm with the "really big numbers" comment...or calling the thread silly.
You honestly took the time to read the initial post and comments?

When I played, which was beta/release and a month after, you couldnt tell when you hit someone. Soft, oddly floating text--- I could of hit someone for 2million and there was no dramatic feel to it.
My wife who has no previous mmo to compare it to told me that when she was in combat it was like she wasnt hitting anything.

PS-I didnt start this thread to pick on warhammer.
I hoping they had made some dramatic changes to the sounds in game.
Its nothing about being picky, it wasnt immersive enough for me.

---

There is currently the free trial going and also an extra free 10 day added to accounts that have been deactivated for over 30 days along with some extra goodies for coming back.

www.warhammeronline.com/call_to_arms/re-enlist.php

Yep i'm not seeing a delay.

Believe me if the game has big sync issues I would be the first to write a pissed off thread topic.

I guess this shows that Mythic is trying.

Combat feels solid to me and at the same time totally different from WoW which is a plus (I bring up WoW since that game is compared to WAR when it really shouldn't be).

I'm glad I started after the revamp and not before Like many of you guys. Games like Eve and Lotro have kept me busy so I watied for a WAR trial before trying.

Edit: that report from Mythic is suprising. Im not noticing caster lag or delay (maybe this is due to me only starting a couple weeks ago.

Anyway I'm having a goodtime and for me thats all that matters.

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by logangregor

So here WAS (maybe its changed, lets hope) my biggest gripe about the game.

The sound and the animations did not sync up.

Either the sounds sucked and didnt sync.

I just couldnt FEEL THE DAMAGE WHEN I NAILED SOMEONE, dare to say like I could in World of Warcraft. Just a small fyi, wow wasnt my first mmo, FAR FROM IT.

Still I wonder if they have done anything about this.

This isnt a hype wow post, however in wow I can feel when I get hit, I feel the excitement when NAIL someone. I really wanted it to be like that in WAR.

 

Has anything changed in that respect?

They must have really tweaked combat then. I just started playing WAR and my Marauder is great. Spamming my AE on those annoying Slayers. The combat is spectacular. Kind of a mix between DAoC and Lotro not the CS controls with everyone running around like crazy people in Wow. Really I must be the only person that thinks its silly for WoW melee to spin around each other like tops lol.

The combat is spectacular? You are talking about WAR right? The mmo that has the most dull combat I have ever come across. You think its silly that players run around like speed addicts in a Benny Hill show and yet its pretty much the same thing in WAR. The only reason people run around like headless chickens a little bit less in WAR is because all of the attacks do so little damage. After a few minutes both combatants get tired of chasing each other around and just stand still in front of each other trying to spam their attacks faster than their opponent while they watch their health bars gradually go down. The game is ridiculously boring.

I swing, you swing, I swing, you swing........half a minute has gone by......is he dead yet? Nope. His health bar has gone down a little. Oh well carry on then........I swing, you swing, I swing, you swing........1 minute has gone by......is he dead yet? Nope. His health bar has gone down to half. Oh well carry on then.......I swing, you swing, I swing, you swing.......2 minutes have gone by.......is he dead yet? Nearly. His health bar has about a quarter left. Oh wait......it just went back up again cos someone healed him........oh well carry on then.......I swing, you swing, etc etc etc

Again, most newer people to WAR will not usually notice lag unless they are well tuned to gaming mechanics because since they just opened the account, they are looking at everything else in the world, and are happy with the new experience. Everyone who has played Warhammer knows the game is pretty fun when you first start in, for most in those 30 days. So the majority of people aren't caring/watching for this type of technical stuff, and the game is just fine.

But there IS a major problem with this issue and it has been well documented since beta. Mythic even claimed they "fixed it", but now say they realized they didn't (3). Those who do not know of it simply haven't been paying attention as again, they probably didn't care about that in their usual gaming, or came from games where it might have been worse. In WoW, you don't have this problem anywhere near the magnitude during normal play. But with WAR it happens all the time, peak or no peak; Mark Jacobs even says so below. (1) You can clearly see that Mythic is frustrated at their inability to fix it for so long (2) (their own admission) and clearly do not know how to fix this issue yet, but are still guessing at different workarounds as they work on it. I'm not sure how closer they are six months later, but Jacobs has hope. (reference numbers below are mine)

---

Jacobs at the War forums (3/17/09):

In all fairness to Colin (who doesn't post regularly), I think you accidently misread what he said in regards to focus testing feedback. If you were part of the PTS (or saw the feedback from it) when we tested this fix in 1.06 I think, feedback was very positive. The feedback we've had since, especially in high load/latency situations as been different. We wouldn't have put in that change originally if feedback on it was bad. That's one of the reasons we desperately want people to get on to the PTS when we put up new versions so we can see how things will play under close to LIVE conditions.

In terms of the second part, casting lag in any MMO will exist if latency is horrible. Even WoW, which handles this stuff very well, can lag at times if conditions are awful (my latency at home is a joke so I've seen this behavior in all games) but the problem is that in WAR, it doesn't happen just when conditions are awful and the team as Colin said(1), has been working on it. Neither I nor Colin nor anyone is making any excuses for it but it is a very complicated issue that is exacerbated by the way some of our abilities work. They are just as frustrated as some of the players(2) but they continue to try to solve the problems. In terms of why did we say it was fixed, unfortunately, we thought they were fixed(3) but it has proved a bit more elusive than we hoped.

In terms of cheating, well, even the OP's post did say that our client/server model worked very well as was secure and as long as the server continues to act as traffic cop, everything will be fine.

I wish I could say that this was an easy issue or that our team wasn't up to the challenge of a tough issue but neither is true. WAR's RvR nature and larger scale battles tends to make things a bit more challenging and when combined with an very complex ability system and the occassional moding/UI issue, it just has proven to take longer to get this to work for everybody all the time. We need to do better and the team is working hard to do just that. I know we'll get there and hopefully soon.

Mark

Message Edited by MarkJ on 03-17-2009 09:10 PM

---

Again, Jacobs says it happens in ALL games, except that in WAR's case, it persists even when conditions are fine (1).