And now this is about the NGE....

Funny OP ^-^  This is SOE's next baby wether you agree or not with cash shops or their money grabbing ways, SOE does support their own games very well. The acquired stuff are given support so they don't die, but as soon as they are no longer lucrative they'll be cut loose. That's how the cookie crumbles.

Originally posted by grandpagamer

So you sony haters dont play sony games? No mmo's no ps2 or ps3 games and i assume you have no sony electronics  in your home either. How about movies, do you go to or watch on tv any movies distributed by sony? And before the crap starts about how SOE and Sony are seperate companies be it known thats bullshit and if you buy anything sony you support the whole corporation.

I beg to differ. SOE is a division of Sony. While funding does make its way to the Sony parent company, that does not imply that if a division is doing poorly or if it suffers from poor PR that Sony can and will not change or reorganized said division. What I mean to say is that owning Sony movies helps the profitability of said Sony division. Not buying or subscribing to an SOE mmo hurts that division. Sony like any other corporation would rather alter, absorb or sell off a division before it starts to really affect the bottom line of the entire company.

No, I do not believe that SOE is doing that poorly in the subscription side of things for some of its mmo's. Nor do I think that SOE is any immediate danger (though Sony's overhaul of the entire company ought to have every division concerned) . I am just arguing the case that not supporting one division of a company does in fact make a difference because DVD buyers are a different target audience than mmo players.

AND to get back to this necro'd thread. DCU is entirely Sony's doing. It will receive preferential treatment especially when it starts to tie into the PS3 realm. Will it revolutionize the MMO world? Nope. It will be a combination of the most common denominators found in successful mmos and action based games. Perfect for younger audiences but far from it for the older meat and potatoes mmo gamers.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by NCPilot

Trust me, don't let SoE get their hands on this game, because if they do, they will shove it in the closet with MxO, SWG, Planetside, and Vanguard.  SoE has a terrible track record when it comes to treatment of MMORPGs.  MxO is the worse of all, now we don't have any Devs, and it's doubtful SoE will get us a new one.  Why don't they just pull the plug on MxO, I have no idea, but there it is.

Trust me, if you want to see this game grow and become better every year, then get someone else other than SoE.

SoE = Death for MMORPGs.

 

FYI,SOe did not fail these games,they failed themselves.

SWG was a failing game,even when it was in it's infancy,the numbers rose,then the numbers began to fall rapidly BEFORE the NGE.

 

Nothing about SWG was failing until SOE destroyed it. The game was very healthy before they attempted to destroy it with the CU, and finished it off with the NGE.

www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html

Oh, please!!  Did you play Pre-CU? 
 

Lets follow the history of that chart, Abrahmm.  SWG releases June 26, 2003.  It enjoys a steady climb as players log in to a tune of 300k subs.  Quickly, casual players and veterian MMO players find a mediocre grinder that stripped of its Star Wars skin is pretty incomplete and lacking in content.  Sub begin the first drop.  Jump to Lightspeed releases and calls back those that dropped to return subs to 300k.  Consumption of the first expansion ends and subs drop steadily to about 250k.  Annoucment of the CURB coupled with the release of RotW boosts subs up maybe 10k.  Then the CU fall out to 180k happens as SOE says one thing but delivers something completely different.  At this point a spike to 220k sub happens as players log in to set up for the ToOW release.  At this point, SOE announces that 1million units are sold(PR spin to how many boxes, not subs). On Nov 15, 2005 the NGE is launched and subs plumet to 120k about July of 2006.  This level is maintained but slowly drops to about 100k in Oct 2007.  Thats the last Guesstimation based on insiders and hearsay. 

Within a few months, of SWG launch, the writing was on the wall that SWG was not doing so well and was loosing subs.  The problem was doubled (the next year) with the release of a game that was highly polished, simple to play and had easy system requirments. That game sucked the all subs from the then dominate games of the day.  World of Warcraft.  Its been pulling players ever since.

Lucas Arts was beyond mad at SOE for this failure.  SWG never came close to its top goal, beating Linage and Linage 2 as top game. www.mmogchart.com/Chart1 That all changed with WOW.

You like the Pre-CU as it was a challenge.  Many agree with you as do I.  However, the common subscriber didn't want a second job when they came home to play thier 3hour average a night.  They quit without a post telling how uber they were.  These are the ones polled by Lucas Arts on why they quit.  There were more of them then there was of us(hardcore).  At this point, I like to express this:  Who told SOE to change the game?

The only ones that found perfection in the Pre-CU were us dedicated hardcore players and not the target demographic.

Methinks the OP missed the boat.

SOE is the original developer of this game, and not only that, they're throwing a shit-ton of money into its development (hiring DC artist Jim Lee, a lengthy gestation and production period, etc). 

Don't get me wrong, I wish it wasn't their game, as it will no doubt be an adult version of the Free Realms RMT extravaganza that their executives have such a hard-on for, but they're not taking it over like they did with EQ/MXO/Vanguard.  Its been their game since inception.

Originally posted by NCPilot

Trust me, don't let SoE get their hands on this game, because if they do, they will shove it in the closet with MxO, SWG, Planetside, and Vanguard.  SoE has a terrible track record when it comes to treatment of MMORPGs.  MxO is the worse of all, now we don't have any Devs, and it's doubtful SoE will get us a new one.  Why don't they just pull the plug on MxO, I have no idea, but there it is.

Trust me, if you want to see this game grow and become better every year, then get someone else other than SoE.

SoE = Death for MMORPGs.

Yea Im not gonna trust you because eh your ignorant in a word.  But hey we all gotta start somewhere, cheers

Oh, please!! Did you play Pre-CU? .

 I agree with you're stance, but I feel your picture on the past is a touch colored.

 [...]mediocre grinder[...]

  The games was only a grinder to those who did not know what they were doing, which was all of us for the first week or two.. After that teir progression was a breeze. If you mean by "grinder" that you had to kill many mobs, then yes you are correct, but I am assuming an implication of "Excessive killing of mobs, for hours/days/weeks" was your intention.

with the release of a game that was highly polished, simple to play and had easy system requirments

 You know I hear this all the time? Your statement is not actually able to stand on its own legs. The implication of high polish is a bit rubbish. The game underwent a rocky start, certainly not as bad per se as Darkfall... never the less it was far from polished in the sense of client/server side stability. There was also a distinct lack of content, perhaps many didn't progress quickly enough to notice it... but I did. In addition to this balance, which remains an ongoing knee jerk, was horrendous. All in all while this is typical of a new release, it is not (to me) worthy of the "Polished" title. You are right never the less, that the game was simple to play.

You like the Pre-CU as it was a challenge. Many agree with you as do I. The only ones that found perfection in the Pre-CU were us dedicated hardcore players[...]

 SWG was not a challenge, I did enjoy the game much more prior to the CU ... but even then it wasn't enough to hold my interest. The only challenge in SWG was the honeymoon phase ... which you, as well as the majority of us SWG vets remember very fondly. My point is ... those honeymoon moments we look back on so often, are a poor realization of SWG as a whole. The grind in Swg was par for the course, I've seen much worse since then.. and certainly more challenges.

Originally posted by Redemp

 

Oh, please!! Did you play Pre-CU? .

 I agree with you're stance, but I feel your picture on the past is a touch colored.

 [...]mediocre grinder[...]

  The games was only a grinder to those who did not know what they were doing, which was all of us for the first week or two.. After that teir progression was a breeze. If you mean by "grinder" that you had to kill many mobs, then yes you are correct, but I am assuming an implication of "Excessive killing of mobs, for hours/days/weeks" was your intention.

with the release of a game that was highly polished, simple to play and had easy system requirments

 You know I hear this all the time? Your statement is not actually able to stand on its own legs. The implication of high polish is a bit rubbish. The game underwent a rocky start, certainly not as bad per se as Darkfall... never the less it was far from polished in the sense of client/server side stability. There was also a distinct lack of content, perhaps many didn't progress quickly enough to notice it... but I did. In addition to this balance, which remains an ongoing knee jerk, was horrendous. All in all while this is typical of a new release, it is not (to me) worthy of the "Polished" title. You are right never the less, that the game was simple to play.

You like the Pre-CU as it was a challenge. Many agree with you as do I. The only ones that found perfection in the Pre-CU were us dedicated hardcore players[...]

 SWG was not a challenge, I did enjoy the game much more prior to the CU ... but even then it wasn't enough to hold my interest. The only challenge in SWG was the honeymoon phase ... which you, as well as the majority of us SWG vets remember very fondly. My point is ... those honeymoon moments we look back on so often, are a poor realization of SWG as a whole. The grind in Swg was par for the course, I've seen much worse since then.. and certainly more challenges.

I was refering to World of Warcraft and not SWG.

Look, Im a realist.  I loved the old game but it had huge problems.  So much so that the devs tried to solve them by completely changing the system to resolve it twice.  The "honeymoon phase" you refer to for me was playing my first MMO with R/L friends.  That quickly ended as the nerfs and bugs started to appear and the population disappeared.  The biggest flaw to Pre-CU is when Jedi was unlocked.  That event changed the culture of the game overnight. Instead of exploring and adventuring,  everyone was working on unlocking thier Jedi.  Nothing else mattered once how it was done was confirmed.  It was the main element that contributed to radical direction of the NGE and its loathing.

I have no idea why you thought I was looking back with rose colored glasses.  My post was in responce to someone elses "rose colored glasses" with a review of his evidance of sub history.
 

 The only reason I brought it up was because the shoe fits everyone's feet. You had a few choice descripters of Swg, of which I thought were a touch inaccurate and represented with a "honeymoon" memmory. Perhaps they were not though.

  I know you were refering to WoW, thats why I responded the way I did. I do not believe WoW was polished at launch, or within the six months there after.  You are correct, as soon as Jedi unlocked..I stopped searching for more Grauls to kill Krayts with. I stopped working on the best ways to use my fencing abilities, and then my Grenadier subs. I stopped exploring for the neat mobs others might have overlooked as worthy pets.

Then again though ... Jedi gave many people a reason to play, we all need a goal to strive for.

   Back to the topic though ...  SOE makes quality games. You need only look at the saturated market currently to establish a refrence point to base this on. MxO was doomed from launch, I have actually played Alphas with more depth. Vanguard was and still remains a wonderful purchase for SoE. I have had many friends and family who have only decided to leave the game in the past months. POTBS  was a niche market from the get go... we should all know how they fare in the big picture.  Soe has the money and the experience to turn DC Universe into a quality AAA title, because they are a quality studio.

  No offense first off.  But SoE is making this game and im glad, because it would have been bad anyways.  DC runs horrible storys where all the characters can always beat their rivals.  Please Superman can do everything in the book?  Thats weak?  Now iff there was a Marvel Universe coming out it would be decent if SoE made it or not.  Every "superhero" needs its limits...

Originally posted by jjjk29

  No offense first off.  But SoE is making this game and im glad, because it would have been bad anyways.  DC runs horrible storys where all the characters can always beat their rivals.  Please Superman can do everything in the book?  Thats weak?  Now iff there was a Marvel Universe coming out it would be decent if SoE made it or not.  Every "superhero" needs its limits...

Let's see. Superman got the shit kicked out of him and KILLED by Doomsday. Batman was literally broken by Bane and even became a junkie for a bit.

Yeah, the heroes win everytime.

  Ok... Superman had no weaknesses but one day an alien comes looking for him breaks his back and its all over?  Ok sounds awesome to me.  Them Superman comes back to life.  Sweet and remains Super forever....

  And Batman is in my op the only good thing that ever came out of DC, besides Watchmen.  Because he has no powers and he can still beat up anyone in his path.  Including Bane.

Originally posted by jjjk29

  Ok... Superman had no weaknesses but one day an alien comes looking for him breaks his back and its all over?  Ok sounds awesome to me.  Them Superman comes back to life.  Sweet and remains Super forever....

  And Batman is in my op the only good thing that ever came out of DC, besides Watchmen.  Because he has no powers and he can still beat up anyone in his path.  Including Bane.

Marvel and DC are both guilty of killing and reserecting characters.  Both have stories of Parallel Universes to explain thier mistakes. These publishers both have over arching themes to thier books to set tone.  I would wager you feel Marvel is more believable than DC, right?  There both about super-heroes; its just one is more soap-opera than the other.

At least Superman is still married.  Whats that going on with Spiderman?  He is more interesting as a loner still living at home?  Please!!

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by jjjk29

  Ok... Superman had no weaknesses but one day an alien comes looking for him breaks his back and its all over?  Ok sounds awesome to me.  Them Superman comes back to life.  Sweet and remains Super forever....

  And Batman is in my op the only good thing that ever came out of DC, besides Watchmen.  Because he has no powers and he can still beat up anyone in his path.  Including Bane.

 

Marvel and DC are both guilty of killing and reserecting characters.  Both have stories of Parallel Universes to explain thier mistakes. These publishers both have over arching themes to thier books to set tone.  I would wager you feel Marvel is more believable than DC, right?  There both about super-heroes; its just one is more soap-opera than the other.

At least Superman is still married.  Whats that going on with Spiderman?  He is more interesting as a loner still living at home?  Please!!

Don't forget that Peter Parker is really Ben Reilley, er...Ben Reilley is really Peter Parker, er....one of the two is the clone of the other.... or some shit like that.

I think this title will do well under SoE, reason 1) (and the most important), it's coming to the PS3 as well. Reason 2) This game is getting a lot of media coverage, so between the sales and numbers consoles recieve, this game will have enough demand to retain, and hopefully gain servers. I have to note though, all games are a gamble. Some of the best games recieve little sales, while some crappy games break sales records, (cough gears of war 1/2 cough). But, all jokes aside, I'm putting my money on a possible contender in the mmo world.

Originally posted by miagisan

last i checked soe was the one developing the game since day 1....you haters are funny

Ya, I agree.  It is sickening to the level the SoE haters stoop.  Sure, SoE has made a lot of mistakes in the past, but at least they are trying and appeared to have learned. EQ2 is damn good game now.  They did the right thing shutting The Matrix down.  Vanguard SoH is only around now because Smed did McQuaid a favor, saying that if the game would have released in the shape the game is today, Vanguard would be a hit.   The Agency is looking outstanding and is taking MMORPGs a new direction.  Let's not forget to mention Free Realms.  That MMORPG is nothing short of absolutely amazing. 

The OP and all the other SoE haters need to get over themselves.

I'd rather see SoE make the game even though they are hit or miss with their mmorpgs, but still, im thankful someone like Funcom isn't getting their greasy little Norwegian paws on this title.

If SoE puts their most elite mmorpg game-makers on this one (veteran devs from EQ1 & 2), and perhaps tap into their resources and cherry pick some devs with other backgrounds...why not. Very few companies have the resume that SoE has, and lets be honest that Sony as a company could buy and sell every single mmorpg company out there...including Blizzard.

But, of course, SoE could totally drop the ball and make it suck...but so could every other company.

On the most part--Im for it.

Originally posted by NCPilot

Trust me, don't let SoE get their hands on this game, because if they do, they will shove it in the closet with MxO, SWG, Planetside, and Vanguard.  SoE has a terrible track record when it comes to treatment of MMORPGs.  MxO is the worse of all, now we don't have any Devs, and it's doubtful SoE will get us a new one.  Why don't they just pull the plug on MxO, I have no idea, but there it is.

Trust me, if you want to see this game grow and become better every year, then get someone else other than SoE.

SoE = Death for MMORPGs.

I think I understand the point of the post but you do realize that if it's not SOE this game as is does not even exist.

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by miagisan

last i checked soe was the one developing the game since day 1....you haters are funny

 

Ya, I agree.  It is sickening to the level the SoE haters stoop.  Sure, SoE has made a lot of mistakes in the past, but at least they are trying and appeared to have learned. EQ2 is damn good game now.  They did the right thing shutting The Matrix down.  Vanguard SoH is only around now because Smed did McQuaid a favor, saying that if the game would have released in the shape the game is today, Vanguard would be a hit.   The Agency is looking outstanding and is taking MMORPGs a new direction.  Let's not forget to mention Free Realms.  That MMORPG is nothing short of absolutely amazing. 

The OP and all the other SoE haters need to get over themselves.

 

   I actually disagree with the OP about wether SOE should be in control of this game but any critism levelled at SOE is well deserved it's obvious from your post you are a fan of their work overall which is fine and dandy but any debate wether they deserve to get trashed is too little too late they have had far too many screw ups to be forgiven in my opinion and still have a way to go to be a true leader in mmos unless you just count the sheer number of games they have over other companies they are doing a horrible job.