Alright I finally understand what these negative posters are talking about.

I've been playing WAR and having a great time.

Im casually running PQs, a handful of quests, a couple scenarios, some Orvr then logging off.

This has worked great for me until I decided to roll a new class.

I decided to do nothing but queue scenarios and while waiting for scenarios grind PQs.

I swear to you playing like this made me want to uninstall the game in two hours.

WAR almost feels like a Anti-Hardcore game. Play this game as a min-maxer rushing to level cap and you will hate this game.

So to anyone that haven't tried WAR yet please do yourself a favor and do not power grind through the game by rank 20+ you will unsubscribe like many of the negative posters that say WAR is a failure have.

I deleted the character I was power leveling and am now back to having fun with my marauder doing everything little by little.

This game is the perfect game for a casual player, for hardcore players move along.

---

Originally posted by Z3R01

 

Alright I finally understand what these negative posters are talking about.
I've been playing WAR and having a great time.
Im casually running PQs, a handful of quests, a couple scenarios, some Orvr then logging off.
This has worled great for me until I decided to roll a new class.
I decided to do nothing but que scenarios and while waiting for scenarios grind PQs.
I swear to you playing like this made me want to uninstall the game in two hours.
WAR almost feels like a Anti-Hardcore game. Play this game as a minmaxer rushing to level cap and you will hate this game.
So to anyone that hasen't tried WAR yet please do yourself a favor and do not power grind through the game by rank 20+ you will unsubscribe like many of the negative posters that say WAR is a failure have.
 
I deleted the character I was power leveling and am now back to having fun with my marauder doing everything little by little.
This game is the perfect game for a casual player, for hardcore players move along.

---

Another "Don't Blame Mythic: You've Been Playing Warhammer Wrong" posts? I thought these went away months ago?

{ Mod Edit }

I don't fault people for having issues with the game but WAR is for the casuals and hardcore.

 

Another "Don't Blame Mythic: You've Been Playing Warhammer Wrong" posts? I thought these went away months ago?

 

{ Mod Edit }

 

 

 

No one said don't blame Mythic. All the OP did was say from their experience they played it wrong. I can't play it like I played most previous MMOs, I have to play WAR very casually or I find myself getting burned out. It's mainly the PVE and how restricted and small the world feels. But if I want to jump on, take a keep, push some oRVR, run some scenarios, it's fine. But when I try to push myself into staying on, I find myself not logging on for a few days.

When I first got WAR my graphics card was borked so I had to play whenever I managed to find myself at a friend's with some free time. Now that I have it at home on a working computer and that first week of playing it, casual is the way for me, and obviously the OP.

 { Mod Edit }

it depends on the persons play style....I love the game...I run bomb groups in Pqs me on my shaman and my two friends, one on Black orc and one on Magus....we easily do "Hard" pqs and we can easily run the same three people on different toons and do the same thing...we hit 40 but we are gimped almost no Renown ranks, but we get those up fast by scenarios and oRvR....i like both styles of play..as i am now playing my sorc doing what the OP has done....

there is no right or wrong way...there is the way you like or you just don't like the game....all i know is the scenario grind everyone talks about is by far not the fastest way to level

Perhaps  you should get a little more experience with the game before you go off telling everyone how they are playing the game wrong.

Warhammer has a lot of issues and you can see the devs spelling out most of them in state of the game addresses.  It is starting to come together with some of the patches, but it still has a long way to go. 

Ehh I worded my post wrong.

Im not telling people how to play WAR, more of telling my experience so far.

When I decided to try to play WAR hardcore It wasn't as enjoyable, that's all.

I think the game is more enjoyable if played at a more casual pace tbh, whether someone else plays that way is up to them.

I've been off the forum for about three days playing WAR, I almost totally Forgot about Z and the WoW action squad.

Guys don't play WoW they lurk WAR, DF and any other rival mmo thread to flame anyone with a positive post, hell it took that one guy about 10 seconds to totally spin my thread into some excuse for mythic lol.

To Z and the WoW action squad you guys are truely hardcore fanatics lol.

I went back for a month in December.  Moved my mains via the free xfer to PT.  Then decided to reroll a new character and made an Engineer.  I always had played alliance altho I did make some Destruction characters in closed beta just to test.  They weren't really my thing.

I'll agree that its much easier on the mid (at least for me) when I didn't push.

To be honest I never did pve with the Engineer.  I went through the first tier in the open area of the Empire area.  There was actually very little scenario opening at that time and when it did.. well um I don't want to be mean but the alliance that would go in there just were missing a few brain cells.

Once I hit T2 I looked for Keep Takes and/or Defense... or if anyone was taking Objectives.

If nothing was going on I would log and it was much more enjoyable.  I just didn't feel I wanted to continue after that month was up.

short version:  Yes I agree at least for me the game was easier to take as a casual player.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by popinjay

 

 

 

Another "Don't Blame Mythic: You've Been Playing Warhammer Wrong" posts? I thought these went away months ago?

{ Mod Edit }

 

 

 

Yep, that theme was hot about 4 months ago. "You all play the game wrongly".

Everyone else was the cause War was  played wrongly. Only a few knew "the secret" how to play it. And guess which company was the reason all those players were bad players?... Not Mythic... :))))

Where is that Disney woman by the way these days ? Left on her "flight path" helping the other guildies to jump in the other Disney Tiers?

Always nice to see the same flow of reasoning as an excuse of why a sub is paid to come back.

Well 10 days IS free.

 

To put it simply, the reason why rushing to the end game is "playing it wrong" is because you lock yourself out of content.  To put it very simply, you can only access lower level content in that level range.  So if you rush past it, you NEVER see those scenarios, you NEVER see those areas, you NEVER compete in those rvr lakes, you NEVER get half the unlocks in the game, fluff gear, tome tactics.  There is a wrong way to play it, rushing to 40 is it.

This post made me laugh and cry at the same time as it shows the way MMOs are heading. Since when do games in general have a "right" way to be played, specially MMOs?  You should be in a living world able to do what you please. Guess Mythic should've told the 500k people that have since left that they were playing it wrong.

/sigh

Originally posted by Raztor

This post made me laugh and cry at the same time as it shows the way MMOs are heading. Since when do games in general have a "right" way to be played, specially MMOs?  You should be in a living world able to do what you please. Guess Mythic should've told the 500k people that have since left that they were playing it wrong.

 

/sigh

In response to the highlighted text.

If your looking to do that you are playing the wrong type of MMO.

You can't even do that in WoW.

Sandbox games are that way ------------------->

WAR is a Niche Casual Pvp game just like LotRO is a Niche Casual Pve game.

Nothing wrong with that.

Also I never said players were playing WAR wrong just that I enjoy WAR more as a Casual gamer.

Originally posted by Z3R01

Ehh I worded my post wrong.

Im not telling people how to play WAR, more of telling my experience so far.

When I decided to try to play WAR hardcore It wasn't as enjoyable, that's all.

I think the game is more enjoyable if played at a more casual pace tbh, whether someone else plays that way is up to them.

I've been off the forum for about three days playing WAR, I almost totally Forgot about Z and the WoW action squad.

Guys don't play WoW they lurk WAR, DF and any other rival mmo thread to flame anyone with a positive post, hell it took that one guy about 10 seconds to totally spin my thread into some excuse for mythic lol.

To Z and the WoW action squad you guys are truely hardcore fanatics lol.

 

 

I agree with mixing it up, but I think that is more a result of many of the games mechanics not being overly engaging. For example I don't find myself doing pve quests and then look at the clock and realize I should have went to bed hours ago.  The game just doesn't have the sort of pull yet. I think that is a result of the game being almost designed to be played in casual 15 minute does.  Almost everything seems to be designed on that 15 minute timer and anything that extends beyond that is considered epic.  Those seem to be the moments to look forward to.

Maybe in RvR that sometimes happens, but mostly I look at the clock and lie to myself that I can run one more scenario or one more rush on a keep. 

I play the game for what it is right now, but mostly to hang out with real life friends and the RvR aspects. 

Originally posted by Z3R01

Alright I finally understand what these negative posters are talking about.

I've been playing WAR and having a great time.

Im casually running PQs, a handful of quests, a couple scenarios, some Orvr then logging off.

This has worked great for me until I decided to roll a new class.

I decided to do nothing but queue scenarios and while waiting for scenarios grind PQs.

I swear to you playing like this made me want to uninstall the game in two hours.

WAR almost feels like a Anti-Hardcore game. Play this game as a min-maxer rushing to level cap and you will hate this game.

So to anyone that haven't tried WAR yet please do yourself a favor and do not power grind through the game by rank 20+ you will unsubscribe like many of the negative posters that say WAR is a failure have.

 

I deleted the character I was power leveling and am now back to having fun with my marauder doing everything little by little.

This game is the perfect game for a casual player, for hardcore players move along.

I completely agree with you on this and Rank 20 was about where I was after I unsubbed a month after release. To enjoy this game, you're really going to have to rewire your brain from the traditional MMO mindset. Instead of focusing on gaining levels, focus on having fun. I personally play maybe 1-2 hours a day. I start off doing O-RvR until I cap out Renown. Then I do PQ's for whatever chapter I'm on until I level. Then I go back to doing O-RvR. Rinse and repeat. The end result is that I'm always having fun, my influence for every chapter and RvR lake is capped out, and I keep my renown rank equal to my level. It's not fast leveling, as I'm only lvl 6 and have played for around 9 hours now over about 4 days. I could do PvE quests to level up a lot faster, but I loathe MMO PvE quests. I could do scenarios, but grinding them the last week of my first month playing burnt me out on them, so I doubt I'd ever go back.

So yeah, this game will wear you out if you play it in hardcore mode, but is a lot of fun played casually. Oh, I'm not afraid to log out if RvR is heavily one-sided or uneventful either. I mix WAR up with Mount & Blade and FEAR 2.

I started out mixing it up, but the PvE is just not really for me.  So what I decided to do was right when I make a char start heading down towards the oRvR area.  I will find the quest-giver in whatever town I start in that gives the SC quest and hit the road.  By the time I get down to the Warcamp, I have done 2 to 3 SC's.  From then on I oRvR and que up scenarios.  If I start seeing that I might not get enough Influence to get my gear, then I do more oRvR.  Or, if I'm having fun in oRvR then I just stay with it.

That is pretty much how I play...

And most important thing to me, it is FUN playing that way. 

I am in no hurry and if I get bored I reroll and try another class out, then come back to the other one later.

---

Originally posted by ulberon

To put it simply, the reason why rushing to the end game is "playing it wrong" is because you lock yourself out of content.  To put it very simply, you can only access lower level content in that level range.  So if you rush past it, you NEVER see those scenarios, you NEVER see those areas, you NEVER compete in those rvr lakes, you NEVER get half the unlocks in the game, fluff gear, tome tactics.  There is a wrong way to play it, rushing to 40 is it.

---

Not everyone wants or cares about fluff. Not everyone wants or cares about titles and unlocks. Not everyone wants to do every single RvR lake, just like someone doesn't do every single quest in a PvE game like.. something else that's popular. You pick and choose along the way what makes your game fun for you. At this stage in most gamers careers, I don't think people want or need lessons on how to play MMOs. But leaving it up to, "For me, this is the best thing" is fine.

Where I disagree about the "wrong way to play" nonsense is this game is touted for the endgame PvP supposedly. That was the major draw because an in open RvR setting, how much fun would it be for a 40/50 to kill a 10/10? Chicken debuffs aren't fun, so ideally you want all people in the same level range.

The problem is how Mythic funneled people into the scenarios early on in the first three months of the game because of the endgame problems and the better rewards to leveling. Mythic had no idea people would start capping levels as fast as they were, and the game couldn't handle it. There was considerable RR to be had in scenarios, I don't know why you or anyone else fails to mention that. Some of the things people did to try and get open rvr going failed almost each and every time. Even today, there is still keep swapping, just not as much. But early, it was a disaster. People were not playing it wrong, they were playing what they were given.

Right now, there is a debate going on about two things Mythic is adressing VERY SLOWLY. Guild leveling and Lord pulling. Since Mythic is moving slowly and saying little, people are doing what they think is right while others are complaining they are exploiting and playing the game "wrong". Typical of Mythic since release, they allow people to savage each other over their mistakes and bad coding rather than making definitive statements and policies, hoping the issue will blow over naturally.

Now if you want to say it's now more beneficial to do less scenarios and more open battles, that is a different argument altogether. There are way more reasons for doing it other than "fun". Mythic changed some things to make it more even so. Mythic did not want people rushing to the endgame because the cities were not ready for 300 vs 300 battles (which they STILl aren't ready for). They have made improvements which were sorely needed, but there's still a lot of work to do for me, personally.

But suggesting the best way to experience a game is not to rush it isn't very insightful, that's true for just about any MMO on the market.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by ulberon

 

To put it simply, the reason why rushing to the end game is "playing it wrong" is because you lock yourself out of content.  To put it very simply, you can only access lower level content in that level range.  So if you rush past it, you NEVER see those scenarios, you NEVER see those areas, you NEVER compete in those rvr lakes, you NEVER get half the unlocks in the game, fluff gear, tome tactics.  There is a wrong way to play it, rushing to 40 is it.

---

 

 

Not everyone wants or cares about fluff. Not everyone wants or cares about titles and unlocks. Not everyone wants to do every single RvR lake, just like someone doesn't do every single quest in a PvE game like.. something else that's popular. You pick and choose along the way what makes your game fun for you. At this stage in most gamers careers, I don't think people want or need lessons on how to play MMOs. But leaving it up to, "For me, this is the best thing" is fine.

 

Where I disagree about the "wrong way to play" nonsense is this game is touted for the endgame PvP supposedly. That was the major draw because an in open RvR setting, how much fun would it be for a 40/50 to kill a 10/10? Chicken debuffs aren't fun, so ideally you want all people in the same level range.

The problem is how Mythic funneled people into the scenarios early on in the first three months of the game because of the endgame problems and the better rewards to leveling. Mythic had no idea people would start capping levels as fast as they were, and the game couldn't handle it. There was considerable RR to be had in scenarios, I don't know why you or anyone else fails to mention that. Some of the things people did to try and get open rvr going failed almost each and every time. Even today, there is still keep swapping, just not as much. But early, it was a disaster. People were not playing it wrong, they were playing what they were given.

 

Right now, there is a debate going on about two things Mythic is adressing VERY SLOWLY. Guild leveling and Lord pulling. Since Mythic is moving slowly and saying little, people are doing what they think is right while others are complaining they are exploiting and playing the game "wrong". Typical of Mythic since release, they allow people to savage each other over their mistakes and bad coding rather than making definitive statements and policies, hoping the issue will blow over naturally.

Now if you want to say it's now more beneficial to do less scenarios and more open battles, that is a different argument altogether. There are way more reasons for doing it other than "fun". Mythic changed some things to make it more even so. Mythic did not want people rushing to the endgame because the cities were not ready for 300 vs 300 battles (which they STILl aren't ready for). They have made improvements which were sorely needed, but there's still a lot of work to do for me, personally.

But suggesting the best way to experience a game is not to rush it isn't very insightful, that's true for just about any MMO on the market.

Then why are you playing an MMO? MMO's by definition are almost identical to pokemon (gotta catch them all).  If you aren't interested in even half of the content, why are you playing it?

---

Originally posted by ulberon

 
Then why are you playing an MMO? MMO's by definition are almost identical to pokemon (gotta catch them all).  If you aren't interested in even half of the content, why are you playing it?

---

Depends on the MMO really. They don't all play the same, at least to me. Although to the untrained eye or some who have had limited contact with the varying styles, it might seem that way.

FFXI was a game that was strictly about the grouping and being social. There was no other purpose. You occasionally went off farming solo for spending money or item farming, but the vast majority of the time, it was grouping and yakking it about nothing and everything while fighting at the same time. This is why I played it for that and the storylines.

EQ2 for me was about mostly questing solo and crafting, as after almost 4 years of constant grouping, I did need a break. They had so many quests in there, that if I was grouped up, there was NO way I'd be able to read every quest as I was doing them. In a game like that, it's not good when you are grouped up with more than a few because everyone is like "Hold on, I'm not finished reading the quest line yet." So your night would be extremely long. AoC was this way for me as well, with the PvE due to all the cutscenes that came along with the quests. (I rather enjoyed them, but they isolated you from your group if you had one, so soloing was better).

Vanguard was about the exploring, grouping and crafting for me and the grouping. It was great to see a spot on a mountain way off, and actually GO to it instead of having it spray painted on. I was in a guild called The Trading Post and we had plenty of firsts of discoveries and items made. The guild folded because of the brokenness that was Vanguard pretty much had our leaders quit. But I stayed on for a bit because I enjoyed the crafting anyways. I later resubbed again and found it much improved.

Guild Wars was about the quick PvP battles as my wife had twins and I was up late nights whenever they woke up, and couldn't play a game where I sat for hours and hours doing things. I was able to get in/out very quickly in battles and pick up where I wanted when I wanted. LOTRO was a combo of different things above.

So you see, all games are not like Pokemon, and in most of them, there is no "wrong way" to play. It depends on why you play it. When I played Warhammer, I played for the open RvR; not the fluffies that I had in WoW. Not to be stuck waiting for the same scenario over/over/over, or fight 100x PvE trolls. I could have (and did) done that in other games that do that MUCH better. Realm action was on the menu, and the sole reason for me to play it. But on my server, Tor Achere, there was none. I couldn't take more of that game's state at lauch after intially finding it great fun. Giving me a book, then telling me "Congratulations! By putting 5 idiots on /ignore, you now have a new Title!", then to then go around hitting "space bar" 100x or whacking 50 moles to see if you now get a new one... not my idea of fun. So the "Tome of Mediocrital Vanity" was not why I signed up for WAR.

I never consider fluff and titles "content", although some do. Now its in there, so it's technically content. But to me, a lot of that junk was like ketchup, mustard or other condiments on a table when you go out to a nice restaurant to eat. I certainly don't consider fluff an excuse or substitute for the main draw of any game, Pokemon or not.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by ulberon

 

 
Then why are you playing an MMO? MMO's by definition are almost identical to pokemon (gotta catch them all).  If you aren't interested in even half of the content, why are you playing it?

---

 

 

Depends on the MMO really. They don't all play the same, at least to me. Although to the untrained eye or some who have had limited contact with the varying styles, it might seem that way.

FFXI was a game that was strictly about the grouping and being social. There was no other purpose. You occasionally went off farming solo for spending money or item farming, but the vast majority of the time, it was grouping and yakking it about nothing and everything while fighting at the same time. This is why I played it for that and the storylines.

EQ2 for me was about mostly questing solo and crafting, as after almost 4 years of constant grouping, I did need a break. They had so many quests in there, that if I was grouped up, there was NO way I'd be able to read every quest as I was doing them. In a game like that, it's not good when you are grouped up with more than a few because everyone is like "Hold on, I'm not finished reading the quest line yet." So your night would be extremely long. AoC was this way for me as well, with the PvE due to all the cutscenes that came along with the quests. (I rather enjoyed them, but they isolated you from your group if you had one, so soloing was better).

Vanguard was about the exploring, grouping and crafting for me and the grouping. It was great to see a spot on a mountain way off, and actually GO to it instead of having it spray painted on. I was in a guild called The Trading Post and we had plenty of firsts of discoveries and items made. The guild folded because of the brokenness that was Vanguard pretty much had our leaders quit. But I stayed on for a bit because I enjoyed the crafting anyways. I later resubbed again and found it much improved.

Guild Wars was about the quick PvP battles as my wife had twins and I was up late nights whenever they woke up, and couldn't play a game where I sat for hours and hours doing things. I was able to get in/out very quickly in battles and pick up where I wanted when I wanted. LOTRO was a combo of different things above.

So you see, all games are not like Pokemon, and in most of them, there is no "wrong way" to play. It depends on why you play it. When I played Warhammer, I played for the open RvR; not the fluffies that I had in WoW. Not to be stuck waiting for the same scenario over/over/over, or fight 100x PvE trolls. I could have (and did) done that in other games that do that MUCH better. Realm action was on the menu, and the sole reason for me to play it. But on my server, Tor Achere, there was none. I couldn't take more of that game's state at lauch after intially finding it great fun. Giving me a book, then telling me "Congratulations! By putting 5 idiots on /ignore, you now have a new Title!", then to then go around hitting "space bar" 100x or whacking 50 moles to see if you now get a new one... not my idea of fun. So the "Tome of Mediocrital Vanity" was not why I signed up for WAR.

I never consider fluff and titles "content", although some do. Now its in there, so it's technically content. But to me, a lot of that junk was like ketchup, mustard or other condiments on a table when you go out to a nice restaurant to eat. I certainly don't consider fluff an excuse or substitute for the main draw of any game, Pokemon or not.

You prove my point, you are trying to play the game other than what is intended.  Let me list what Warhammer offers:

1) Unique Scenarios, many of them (that you become locked out of as you race to max level)

2) Unlocks (achievements for wow people) (some you can't get as you race to max level)

3) Dungeons (lower level dungeons are not worth doing....as you race to max level)

4) Guild levels (I'm going to assume you waited till 40 to join a guild, which doesn't help the guild level up as much as it would have had you joined it at 10)

5) RVR (you can't access the lower level RVR lakes, and quests, at max level)

6) General PVE (again, can't access lower level places at max level)

7) Exploration unlocks, fluff rewards, exploration lairs.

You only want to do 1/7.  Maybe this game isn't for you.  Maybe find a game you want to do 2/7 of the games features?

Originally posted by Antarious

I went back for a month in December.  Moved my mains via the free xfer to PT.  Then decided to reroll a new character and made an Engineer.  I always had played alliance altho I did make some Destruction characters in closed beta just to test.  They weren't really my thing.

I'll agree that its much easier on the mid (at least for me) when I didn't push.

To be honest I never did pve with the Engineer.  I went through the first tier in the open area of the Empire area.  There was actually very little scenario opening at that time and when it did.. well um I don't want to be mean but the alliance that would go in there just were missing a few brain cells.

Once I hit T2 I looked for Keep Takes and/or Defense... or if anyone was taking Objectives.

If nothing was going on I would log and it was much more enjoyable.  I just didn't feel I wanted to continue after that month was up.

short version:  Yes I agree at least for me the game was easier to take as a casual player.

You bought the game at release, quited and tried it again in december?

Really, you should wait way longer than that because it takes at least 6-12 months to fix up a MMO after release. If you like it when it's releasing, fine but then you wouldn't quit anyways but did you really think they could have changed the game so much in that short time? They are just humans, you know (even though Barnett seems unaware that he is sometimes;).

But the OP is right, WAR is aiming for casuals players. The hardcore gamers soon come to a point where they RvR all the time and that get's boring too after a time. Mythic do need to put in stuff for them to if they want to intrest new HC players. Of course there are a lot more casual players so maybe they prefer them, other games are aiming for the HC crowd anyways.

Personally I think they should try to please the old "Games workshop"/Warhammer fans more. The lore is amazing and WARs strongest point but right now they just scratched the surface, there is so much more they can do with it. :)

---

Originally posted by ulberon

 
You prove my point, you are trying to play the game other than what is intended.  Let me list what Warhammer offers:
1) Unique Scenarios, many of them (that you become locked out of as you race to max level)
2) Unlocks (achievements for wow people) (some you can't get as you race to max level)
3) Dungeons (lower level dungeons are not worth doing....as you race to max level)
4) Guild levels (I'm going to assume you waited till 40 to join a guild, which doesn't help the guild level up as much as it would have had you joined it at 10)
5) RVR (you can't access the lower level RVR lakes, and quests, at max level)
6) General PVE (again, can't access lower level places at max level)
7) Exploration unlocks, fluff rewards, exploration lairs.
 
You only want to do 1/7.  Maybe this game isn't for you.  Maybe find a game you want to do 2/7 of the games features?

---

You ask around looking for a steakhouse for a steak dinner. You heard of people mentioning this particular restaurant in ads saying they do steak better than anyone else, they are world famous for it and claim they do it better than anyone else. You did not ask about their appetizers, or their bar selection or their desserts. You really don't care about that, although you will probably experience SOME of that during your dining experience naturally. But you came for a nice, marbled one inch thick Kobe. That's why you made reservations. The owner has touted his restaurant as the best in town for steak, and says they offer so many other things as well that are just as fantastic.

You arrive at the restaurant and look at the menu. Big picture of the steak you plan to get right there. You put in your order for that right away, and you are asked about the other "fluff". Ok, I'll take a order of onion rings. Yes, I'll have a lager. Sure, I want the garlic potatoes instead of the french fries. But I want my steak Medium Well, how long will that take to be ready? You are assured it won't be long, but in the meantime, go check out the gazebo, or the fountain and salad bar, and did you know we have unlimited breadsticks? Pass.

After all your fluff arrives and you've nibbled a great deal on it, you wonder.. how long til the steak? We've been waiting 50 mins. It shouldn't be long sir, just enjoy our fine dining atmosphere while we check on it for you, we strive to make your dining experience the best so we listen to you as a patron. Notice that woodwork, sir? It's imported from China along with the floor tile. And did you know that our violinist used to play in the Boston Phil? ZZZ. Whatever... go check on the steak, dude.

After watching some others eating their steak (the "higher" people at the good tables) you now no longer want to put anything else into your stomach unless its red meat. So finally it comes. And you just know it's going to taste sublime because of the reputation of the steakhouse and the hype, and all the waiting for it. You take a few bites and then realize its good, but not much better than the Outback. THIS is what you waited for? When you ask about it, you are told by loyal customers that the reason you don't enjoy your steak dinner as a whole, was because you ate it wrong. You didn't enjoy the atmosphere, the orchestra, the fine uniforms of the waiters; and you also forgot to put A1 steak sauce on it as well. You just wanted a steak and that's why the steak wasn't good.

I'm pretty sure you can figure it out. Mythic is the owner, Warhammer is the restaurant, open RvR is the steak, and tome unlocks, exploring, guild leveling, fluff rewards and titles are the appetizers and such. Subscribers are the diners.

Thats how I feel about WAR at the moment. There is nothing saying I won't try it again, but not enough has changed for me right now.. queues on city sieges or you get crashes, casting lag, unbalances and OP classes, guild exploits, crappy crafting, random contribution grab bag rewards for battles, pulling Lords from upper floor exploits, pets shooting through walls (since beta).. they have a lot of things to fix yet before I eat here again, that's all. I didn't say the restaurant was crappy, nor did I tell people don't eat here. And I certainly won't tell them they are eating wrongly when I know the restaurant has other problems and roaches (bugs) in there.

The way I eat my meal at this restaurant has little bearing on any of that. As another diner, your way of eating your meal and enjoying it has no more merit on the way I eat my meal and enjoy it, especially when the food isn't as advertised.

I hope this simplifies it for you, as you seemed to not understand my point. Someone would have experienced most of your above list regardless of "right or wrong" play. It's not possible to do just 1/7 without touching on the other stuff. It's just the other six aren't the focus and not why most people are looking to buy this game.

But please feel free to stick with the appetizers until your steak is finished. I personally could only eat so many breadsticks.