Either the company that makes the game creates RMT or you have the farmers do it. It is inevitable, just like the whines and cries from those that think they are being "ripped off".

I don't know why you people contintue to play SOE games in the first place, they're the Devil.  They have the worst reputation in the industry and I find it amazing they can even stay in business.

Originally posted by Vrazule

I don't know why you people contintue to play SOE games in the first place, they're the Devil.  They have the worst reputation in the industry and I find it amazing they can even stay in business.

Why you ask, well some of us like a little variety in our games.  We can't stand playing WoW year after year after year.  Bottom line, if you don't like it don't play it.  Just because you don't like something doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way.

OK, look at it this way.  90% of the player-base will be completely unaware of LiveGamer, or whatever the hell it's called, and will be  completely obilivious to the fact that it happened.  The other 10%, like me, read the official forums and are aware of it, and even though I find it distasteful, it will have no impact on me, my gameplay or my guild.

From an MMO perspective, I've always found the buying and selling of gold, items and characters for real money disgusting.  I can't understand why anyone would do it.  I saw it first hand in EQ in 1999 and it happens in all MMOs.  People are able to sell virtual game-world items for real money, oh well... nothing I can do about it other than not to do it myself.  So I can either get upset about it, or go on enjoying the game.

lol Its funny because a lot of people told the Vanguard community this was going to happen their responce was usually along "There is no official word that vanguard will have a cash shop" Well...what now? Not going to say it but A lot of people did warn you guys that Vanguard was next...

"I told you so"  by  a DFO "s fanboy is something really interesting.

Originally posted by boojiboy

Originally posted by ougarit

 

 

Reality is Blizzard has more and more subs each year and SOE less and less

Reality is VG is an unfinished, bugged and empty world with one of the smallest cities

Reality is a lot of people are going to cancel their accounts and play other games (Eve, Wow F2P, aion etc)

 

No impact ? ^^ No players.

 

Hehe, right.

I don't care if Blizzard has all the subs in the world, I don't enjoy WoW. 

Another lie from Vanboys.

Pop is not growing. Seems growing in IOD , in the world you are ALONE. ALONE. 

 And i'm not a wow player, played 1 month wow in 2005

I 'm a wargamer and i play Ultima. Solo games are MUCH better than these craps called mmorpgs.

- Vanguard; bugged unfinished empty and now has RMT. VG had 2 interesting features (that's why played VG): diplomacy and craft. SOE killed the craft and the economy with RMT, and there' s no dev working on diplomacy since SOE bought the game. So it's time to let VG die.

- AOC ; buggy unfinished heavily instanced

- EQ2 : boring, instanced

- War: boring, enormous lag, freezes, repetitive

- DFO: an alpha

- Lotro: maybe one of the best. 

- wow: found it boring, not Warcraft 4 for me

 - TCOS: not enough content, char awfull

- AION: don't like corean games

- POTBS: meh

I play Mount and Blade, Gothic3, sometimes Lotro. I'm going to play Oblivion ,DOW 2, SC2.

Originally posted by ougarit

Originally posted by boojiboy

Originally posted by ougarit

 

 

Reality is Blizzard has more and more subs each year and SOE less and less

Reality is VG is an unfinished, bugged and empty world with one of the smallest cities

Reality is a lot of people are going to cancel their accounts and play other games (Eve, Wow F2P, aion etc)

 

No impact ? ^^ No players.

 

Hehe, right.

I don't care if Blizzard has all the subs in the world, I don't enjoy WoW. 

Another lie from Vanboys.

Pop is not growing. Seems growing in IOD , in the world you are ALONE. ALONE. 

 And i'm not a wow player, played 1 month wow in 2005

I 'm a wargamer and i play Ultima. Solo games are MUCH better than these craps called mmorpgs.

 

- Vanguard; bugged unfinished empty and now has RMT. VG had 2 interesting features (that's why played VG): diplomacy and craft. SOE killed the craft and the economy with RMT, and there' s no dev working on diplomacy since SOE bought the game. So it's time to let VG die.

- AOC ; buggy unfinished heavily instanced

- EQ2 : boring, instanced

- War: boring, enormous lag, freezes, repetitive

- DFO: an alpha

- Lotro: maybe one of the best. 

- wow: found it boring, not Warcraft 4 for me

 - TCOS: not enough content, char awfull

- AION: don't like corean games

- POTBS: meh

 

I play Mount and Blade, Gothic3, sometimes Lotro. I'm going to play Oblivion ,DOW 2, SC2.

Remind me, how can a subjective "I don't enjoy WoW" be a lie?

If you think that VG is unfinished, buggy and empty, then you obviously haven't played the game or kept up with it for quite a long time. And Vanguard Trolls have been coming to this forum since the game launched declaring that McQuaid killed it, that Sony would kill it, that Tabula Rosa would kill it, that LotRo would kill it, that Bind on Equip would kill it, that AoC would definitely kill it, that the new character models would kill it, that Warhammer would kill it, that Darkfall would kill it........

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. Your kind of rhetoric hasn't changed in 2-years. So I could care less if WoW has more subscribers and I certainly DON'T want the typical WoW-crowd switching to Vanguard. Vanguard is fun for me and many others and the game is doing well as evidenced by growing population, new content and the upcoming 'free expansion'

another Vanboy's rhetoric

same rethoric since 2 years. >The pop is growing, the game is nice, works fine, bugs fixed, best mmo , etc etc etc.  I don't care, players don't care, only last vanboys cares about vanguard. SOE doesn't care about vanguard that's the reality ^^ SOE cares about EQ2. ^^  vg is buggy empty and soe killed the economy and the craft with the RMT. 

VG community = DFO's community = DnL 's community

same problems, same communities. Vg is a Titanic, you can stay on board, i don't care.

Originally posted by warpp 

You know where the cancel button is don't you?  use it if it bothers you that much.

Everytime someone talks about how awesome the communities in vanguard are, or any soe game for that matter I always remember these replies.

Soe does something that is obviously controversial and does ruin the gaming experience for a sizable portion of the community and the other half of that awesome community always rushes to the forums to tell people to gtfo or something similar. 

The level of apathy towards in regards to the company that continues to alienate their playerbase with this type of thing is simply unfound in other mmos.   Year after year it is the same thing over and over.  "the changes don't ruin my experience so stop complaining about it and leave". 

Originally posted by ougarit

If you think that VG is unfinished, buggy and empty, then you obviously haven't played the game or kept up with it for quite a long time. And Vanguard Trolls have been coming to this forum since the game launched declaring that McQuaid killed it, that Sony would kill it, that Tabula Rosa would kill it, that LotRo would kill it, that Bind on Equip would kill it, that AoC would definitely kill it, that the new character models would kill it, that Warhammer would kill it, that Darkfall would kill it........

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. Your kind of rhetoric hasn't changed in 2-years. So I could care less if WoW has more subscribers and I certainly DON'T want the typical WoW-crowd switching to Vanguard. Vanguard is fun for me and many others and the game is doing well as evidenced by growing population, new content and the upcoming 'free expansion'

 

another Vanboy's rhetoric

same rethoric since 2 years. >The pop is growing, the game is nice, works fine, bugs fixed, best mmo , etc etc etc.  I don't care, players don't care, only last vanboys cares about vanguard. SOE doesn't care about vanguard that's the reality ^^ SOE cares about EQ2. ^^  vg is buggy empty and soe killed the economy and the craft with the RMT. 

VG community = DFO's community = DnL 's community

same problems, same communities. Vg is a Titanic, you can stay on board, i don't care.

What exactly is it that bothers you so much about people liking Vanguard, that you continually come to this forum to troll and label anyone that has anything positive about the game a 'Vanboy"?  It's obvious from your post, you are clueless on what has been going on in Vanguard recently, yet you still troll.  So why embarrass yourself with these posts?

I've tried many MMOs, and guess what, if I don't like them, I move on.  What I don't do is troll their respective forums trying to scare away anyone and everyone from trying the game.  What's the point?

Sure, Vanguard is small in comparison to WoW, very small.  But why do people that don't play WoW or a WoW-clone get end up being Vanboys?  It's easy to tell the population is growing in Vanguard, both subjectively and objectively.  Subjectively, it's noticeable how alive region-chat is, how active the economy is, and how crowded some zones are becoming.  Objectively, the count command turned up 1200 people online the last time I did it a couple weeks ago on a Friday night.

I'm sure 1200 online during primetime is nothing compared to WoW, but it's a very healthy population for the server and a hell of a lot more people than 300-400 on during primetime 8-9 months ago.  That my friend, is growth.  Why?  Because they game runs much smoother, most folks never crash, the majority of bugs are fixed, they've added a free trial to market the game and there is a decent chunk of new content and more to come.  Facts.

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by Guillermo197

That's because John Smedly himself assured his loyal customers that they would never do any RMT implementations on their existing games. He always said it would be for their future titles.

So people thought and 'hoped' they had actually learned from the NGE debacle and that Smedly would actually keep his word this time.

Now he has lost every last inch of credibility and trust from his loyal customers and I sincerly hope it's finally going to bite them in the butt! HARD!

It's time they are going to learn it the hard way (financially) and that customers are getting fed up and tired constantly being screwed over by SOE.

Again, the problem was that people were naive.

If the stated goal of SOE back in 2007 was to go from a 100% subscription-based model to one that saw no more than 50% of its revenue from subs in two years, there simply was no other way to do that except introducing some form of RMT/cash shops to the current line-up of games. There was just no way they were going to release enough new games within that two year window to make up the difference.

Honestly, between the trading card games like Legends of Norrath, the RMT-based games SOE has bought like PoxNora, and the introduction of StationCash across all servers in EQ and EQ2, this has been happening for a long, long time. SOE just isn't going to fall back and rely on the StationPass anymore. They're aiming for a younger, more casual audience, and one that has fewer qualms about RMT in games, given the very real popularity of RMT-based games on the market like Rock Band and Guitar Hero.

I don't play Vanguard, so I can't judge how this change will affect VG's playerbase. The 85+ page thread on the official forums is no help either, because a lot of the same names keep popping up over and over and over and over, and even some of those folks concede that when they talk about LiveGamer in game, the responses range from silence, to "so what?" Still, this move by SOE should not have been a surprise given what their long-term goals for their business model are. RMT of some form is here to stay in their games because that's the direction they're moving in.

At this time SOE is a subscription based game WITH RMT on top of that. There are no other games out there that can proudly hold this title. This is a greedy company. Free to play with RMT or subscription based .. not both. It would be arguable if their games are even worth a subscription fee at this point .. but I would say definitely not with RMT tacked on.

Originally posted by qombi

At this time SOE is a subscription based game WITH RMT on top of that. There are no other games out there that can proudly hold this title. This is a greedy company. Free to play with RMT or subscription based .. not both. It would be arguable if their games are even worth a subscription fee at this point .. but I would say definitely not with RMT tacked on.

It's not going to cost anybody a penny  more to play.  Not a single penny.  If some idiot wants to buy gold, they can still buy gold, that's their choice.  But playing the game will still requires only a subscription.

LiveGamer isn't tacked on to anybody's account, unless they are an idiot that wants to buy gold, items or characters.  Which I guarentee you, if they do that kind of crap, they were doing it well before LiveGamer.

Originally posted by boojiboy

Originally posted by qombi

At this time SOE is a subscription based game WITH RMT on top of that. There are no other games out there that can proudly hold this title. This is a greedy company. Free to play with RMT or subscription based .. not both. It would be arguable if their games are even worth a subscription fee at this point .. but I would say definitely not with RMT tacked on.

 

It's not going to cost anybody a penny  more to play.  Not a single penny.  If some idiot wants to buy gold, they can still buy gold, that's their choice.  But playing the game will still requires only a subscription.

LiveGamer isn't tacked on to anybody's account, unless they are an idiot that wants to buy gold, items or characters.  Which I guarentee you, if they do that kind of crap, they were doing it well before LiveGamer.

You are not understanding the point. I don't want to compete with someone who can just buy stuff and I don't want to feel like I have to to keep up.

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

Originally posted by boojiboy

Originally posted by qombi

At this time SOE is a subscription based game WITH RMT on top of that. There are no other games out there that can proudly hold this title. This is a greedy company. Free to play with RMT or subscription based .. not both. It would be arguable if their games are even worth a subscription fee at this point .. but I would say definitely not with RMT tacked on.

 

It's not going to cost anybody a penny  more to play.  Not a single penny.  If some idiot wants to buy gold, they can still buy gold, that's their choice.  But playing the game will still requires only a subscription.

LiveGamer isn't tacked on to anybody's account, unless they are an idiot that wants to buy gold, items or characters.  Which I guarentee you, if they do that kind of crap, they were doing it well before LiveGamer.

You are not understanding the point. I don't want to compete with someone who can just buy stuff and I don't want to feel like I have to to keep up.

Neither do I.  But those type of people could do it before through 3rd parties, and they did.  As I said in another post, because the subscriber base of VG is small relative to mass-market MMOs, and the community is appalled at the concept  of cash for in game items, this stuff is rare in VG.  I played Everquest for 6 years and I always hated the thought that the person next to me simply bought their character or items.  And unforunately, that was a big problem in EQ when it was the ony game in town.  One day you are raiding with an in game friend and the next day it's somebody else because your 'friend' cashed out and sold their character.  Remember going on eBay and looking at all the characters for sale and if it was someone on your server you called them out in game???

We have a medium size guild, 100 or so active players. Once we decided to build a guild hall, it took us months to get the harvested resources, craft those into the raw materials, gather the diplomatic information and raise the plat to buy the deed and pay the rent. Months!! At the same time, a small few, would simply buy gold, buy all their guild hall stuff and put up their hall. In a day or two, with a gulid of 8 people and only 1 person active.  My point is, these idiots have always been in the game and I too hate the fact, but LiveGamer won't change anything.

Besides, in Vanguard, even those that have bought stuff in the past with RL money still can't get the gear I have.  I have 1 crafted piece on me, the rest is soulbound drops, raid gear, quest gear and unhexed crafted.  None of which can be sold on LiveGamer.  Furthermore, I really doubt there is enough demand in the game for people to sell their characters.  Right now, you might find an old friend online only to find out it's somebody's cousin, or friend that they 'gave' their account to.  But I seroiusly doubt anyone could sell their character even if they wanted to.

LiveGamer changes nothing in game, because those they buy and sell gold were there before and will be after.  Won't impact me in the least, won't impact by monthly subscription fee.  Nada

I don't see what the problem is with RMT. It finally redresses one of the basic fallacies of MMOs.

"Unemployed geeks living in their parents basement are the most successful and powerful individuals."

Why is this? Well they can play near 24/7 and can invest the time to overcome any MMO related obstacle. Are these really the role models that we want for our children? Should I tell my son if he wants to grow up to be an level 80 Wizard of PWNZing he needs to drop out of school and become a leech on society?

Ever since Charles Atlas showed people how to stand up to the bully kicking sand in their faces, the world has been in a terrible tail spin. The culmination of this was the MMO where those same spineless folks are now mighty and powerful. Sony is just righting the natural order of things by putting successful, employed folks who have better things to do with their lives than play games, to the forefront.

Seriously, in what world does a hard core MMO veteran get to shout "LTP N00B!" No in reality when that happens, the basement creature gets his house repossessed after the inevitable law suit. MMOs have finally gotten with the times and everyone who now lives in the real world, making cash, can now shout at all the cellar dwellers, "GAJ NOOB"* after they crushed them with their uber expensive weapons of smiting.

Sony is right there in the forefront of MMO innovation and trends, finally matching reality and fantasy. So now when you lose a PvP duel, you know that not only did you loose in the game, but the guy on the other end is sitting back in his Jacuzzi, tossing away his disposable laptop, kissing his Brazilian model trophy wife, and laughing at you. The humiliation will be complete and life as we know it can get back to normal.

Thank you SOE for caring enough to right this wrong! Now I know that to be a successful MMO player, I need to actually be successful in life.

*GAJ stands for Get A Job Looser**
** Note: The looser is of course implied. Successful people don’t have time to type a full acronym.

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

Originally posted by boojiboy

Originally posted by qombi

At this time SOE is a subscription based game WITH RMT on top of that. There are no other games out there that can proudly hold this title. This is a greedy company. Free to play with RMT or subscription based .. not both. It would be arguable if their games are even worth a subscription fee at this point .. but I would say definitely not with RMT tacked on.

 

It's not going to cost anybody a penny  more to play.  Not a single penny.  If some idiot wants to buy gold, they can still buy gold, that's their choice.  But playing the game will still requires only a subscription.

LiveGamer isn't tacked on to anybody's account, unless they are an idiot that wants to buy gold, items or characters.  Which I guarentee you, if they do that kind of crap, they were doing it well before LiveGamer.

You are not understanding the point. I don't want to compete with someone who can just buy stuff and I don't want to feel like I have to to keep up.

Seriously are you dense or something?  EVERY game out there has RMT.... Name a single game where I can go google gold and buy a ton of cash in 5 minutes in game?!  I mean seriously...  Not only can I buy gold I can pay to have my character leveled to a set level or in some cases have my tradeskills leveled.

All this really accomplishes is to generate more revenue for SoE, More power to them, maybe it puts more cash into devs.  And second it eliminates potential fraud and tech support calls from people getting ripped off. 

I'm going to spend time tonight on eq2 bazaar server and see what kind of impact this has on the in game markets but based on my looking at the live gamer site I'm gonna bet it has no impact at all.

Originally posted by ethion

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

Originally posted by boojiboy

Originally posted by qombi

At this time SOE is a subscription based game WITH RMT on top of that. There are no other games out there that can proudly hold this title. This is a greedy company. Free to play with RMT or subscription based .. not both. It would be arguable if their games are even worth a subscription fee at this point .. but I would say definitely not with RMT tacked on.

 

It's not going to cost anybody a penny  more to play.  Not a single penny.  If some idiot wants to buy gold, they can still buy gold, that's their choice.  But playing the game will still requires only a subscription.

LiveGamer isn't tacked on to anybody's account, unless they are an idiot that wants to buy gold, items or characters.  Which I guarentee you, if they do that kind of crap, they were doing it well before LiveGamer.

You are not understanding the point. I don't want to compete with someone who can just buy stuff and I don't want to feel like I have to to keep up.

 

Seriously are you dense or something?  EVERY game out there has RMT.... Name a single game where I can go google gold and buy a ton of cash in 5 minutes in game?!  I mean seriously...  Not only can I buy gold I can pay to have my character leveled to a set level or in some cases have my tradeskills leveled.

All this really accomplishes is to generate more revenue for SoE, More power to them, maybe it puts more cash into devs.  And second it eliminates potential fraud and tech support calls from people getting ripped off. 

I'm going to spend time tonight on eq2 bazaar server and see what kind of impact this has on the in game markets but based on my looking at the live gamer site I'm gonna bet it has no impact at all.

Attempting to label illegal activities as RMT to make your argument is not legitimate. Other games such as WoW will attempt to eliminate this foul behaviour. SOE is the one promoting this activity in their game. You can bounce around the truth as long as you want but that doesn't change the truth. The truth is Sony games are now subscription based games with virtual items for real life cash tacked on.

The issue is not that RMT is bad .. the issue is players that are currently playing Sony's games did not purchase a free to play game with RMT .. that would have been honest and legit. The players then would have known what they were getting. What Sony did was slimy and I don't blame any of their players for being upset. I don't play any of Sony's games personally, I don't agree with their business practices.

Originally posted by boojiboy
 

Besides, in Vanguard, even those that have bought stuff in the past with RL money still can't get the gear I have.  I have 1 crafted piece on me, the rest is soulbound drops, raid gear, quest gear and unhexed crafted.  None of which can be sold on LiveGamer.  

you can... buy

a CHAR with LG :)

you can buy a char, coins, so you can buy everything. And you'll have plenty of gold workers on the game.

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by ethion

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

Originally posted by boojiboy

Originally posted by qombi

At this time SOE is a subscription based game WITH RMT on top of that. There are no other games out there that can proudly hold this title. This is a greedy company. Free to play with RMT or subscription based .. not both. It would be arguable if their games are even worth a subscription fee at this point .. but I would say definitely not with RMT tacked on.

 

It's not going to cost anybody a penny  more to play.  Not a single penny.  If some idiot wants to buy gold, they can still buy gold, that's their choice.  But playing the game will still requires only a subscription.

LiveGamer isn't tacked on to anybody's account, unless they are an idiot that wants to buy gold, items or characters.  Which I guarentee you, if they do that kind of crap, they were doing it well before LiveGamer.

You are not understanding the point. I don't want to compete with someone who can just buy stuff and I don't want to feel like I have to to keep up.

 

Seriously are you dense or something?  EVERY game out there has RMT.... Name a single game where I can go google gold and buy a ton of cash in 5 minutes in game?!  I mean seriously...  Not only can I buy gold I can pay to have my character leveled to a set level or in some cases have my tradeskills leveled.

All this really accomplishes is to generate more revenue for SoE, More power to them, maybe it puts more cash into devs.  And second it eliminates potential fraud and tech support calls from people getting ripped off. 

I'm going to spend time tonight on eq2 bazaar server and see what kind of impact this has on the in game markets but based on my looking at the live gamer site I'm gonna bet it has no impact at all.

 

Attempting to label illegal activities as RMT to make your argument is not legitimate. Other games such as WoW will attempt to eliminate this foul behaviour. SOE is the one promoting this activity in their game. You can bounce around the truth as long as you want but that doesn't change the truth. The truth is Sony games are now subscription based games with virtual items for real life cash tacked on.

The issue is not that RMT is bad .. the issue is players that are currently playing Sony's games did not purchase a free to play game with RMT .. that would have been honest and legit. The players then would have known what they were getting. What Sony did was slimy and I don't blame any of their players for being upset. I don't play any of Sony's games personally, I don't agree with their business practices.

Do a google search.  RMT is flourishing the most in WoW, more so than any other MMO out there.  It's community driven, not publisher driven.  Now do a google search and see how few Vanguard accounts and items are for sale for Vanguard.  That's why RMT has almost no impact on Vanguard gameplay, because of the community.