forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m

To all those who argued with me that RMT wasn't coming to Vanguard just because it was added to EQ and EQ2.

Originally posted by Samuraisword

forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m

To all those who argued with me that RMT wasn't coming to Vanguard just because it was added to EQ and EQ2.

 

Umm there is allready a post on this... LTR.

Originally posted by Samuraisword

forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m

To all those who argued with me that RMT wasn't coming to Vanguard just because it was added to EQ and EQ2.

 

Who cares,seriously i play the game and i have not heard one person in GC even mention it.Go to the forums and it will be hard to even find a topic about it other than the the devs topic. Even with the cash shop there are things you will never be able to get in VG unless you work for it.

It really is no big deal.It makes me smile hearing idiots say "i was going to play VG until i heard of this" lol VG has been here two yesrs and all of a sudden you were going to play just as they anounce the cash shop..yeah right. It's just another topic for the idiots who don't play the game and some never have,to moan about something that will not efeect them in any way shape or form.

Originally posted by warpp

Originally posted by Samuraisword

forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m

To all those who argued with me that RMT wasn't coming to Vanguard just because it was added to EQ and EQ2.

 

Who cares,seriously i play the game and i have not heard one person in GC even mention it.Go to the forums and it will be hard to even find a topic about it other than the the devs topic. Even with the cash shop there are things you will never be able to get in VG unless you work for it.

It really is no big deal.It makes me smile hearing idiots say "i was going to play VG until i heard of this" lol VG has been here two yesrs and all of a sudden you were going to play just as they anounce the cash shop..yeah right. It's just another topic for the idiots who don't play the game and some never have,to moan about something that will not efeect them in any way shape or form.

WTH are you talking about? the threads are FULL of topics blasting this stupidity.. the mods are just doing their job of locking and deleteing them as fast as we post them..
 

and if you like it then have fun. the rest of us are leaveing.

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Originally posted by warpp

Originally posted by Samuraisword

forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m

To all those who argued with me that RMT wasn't coming to Vanguard just because it was added to EQ and EQ2.

 

Who cares,seriously i play the game and i have not heard one person in GC even mention it.Go to the forums and it will be hard to even find a topic about it other than the the devs topic. Even with the cash shop there are things you will never be able to get in VG unless you work for it.

It really is no big deal.It makes me smile hearing idiots say "i was going to play VG until i heard of this" lol VG has been here two yesrs and all of a sudden you were going to play just as they anounce the cash shop..yeah right. It's just another topic for the idiots who don't play the game and some never have,to moan about something that will not efeect them in any way shape or form.

WTH are you talking about? the threads are FULL of topics blasting this stupidity.. the mods are just doing their job of locking and deleteing them as fast as we post them..
 

and if you like it then have fun. the rest of us are leaveing.

Full of these threads..ok well i am going to link the VG forums right now and we will see if the threads are full of the cash system topic..

The GF and i see two recent threads about LG..now if that is what you call full of thread about the LG then you are an idiot. When it was anounced their were topics but as you can see their are two right now.

Does it really look like everybody is leaving .

You know where the cancel button is don't you?  use it if it bothers you that much.

Originally posted by warpp

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Originally posted by warpp

Originally posted by Samuraisword

forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m

To all those who argued with me that RMT wasn't coming to Vanguard just because it was added to EQ and EQ2.

 

Who cares,seriously i play the game and i have not heard one person in GC even mention it.Go to the forums and it will be hard to even find a topic about it other than the the devs topic. Even with the cash shop there are things you will never be able to get in VG unless you work for it.

It really is no big deal.It makes me smile hearing idiots say "i was going to play VG until i heard of this" lol VG has been here two yesrs and all of a sudden you were going to play just as they anounce the cash shop..yeah right. It's just another topic for the idiots who don't play the game and some never have,to moan about something that will not efeect them in any way shape or form.

WTH are you talking about? the threads are FULL of topics blasting this stupidity.. the mods are just doing their job of locking and deleteing them as fast as we post them..
 

and if you like it then have fun. the rest of us are leaveing.

Full of these threads..ok well i am going to link the VG forums right now and we will see if the threads are full of the cash system topic..

The GF and i see two recent threads about LG..now if that is what you call full of thread about the LG then you are an idiot. When it was anounced their were topics but as you can see their are two right now.

Does it really look like everybody is leaving .

You know where the cancel button is don't you?  use it if it bothers you that much.

The mods over at the offical VG boards are using an old tactic by combining any thread opened about Live Gamer into one thread.  Merge all threads into one so it seems there's not much of an outcry and also destorys the flow of the orginal thread.

Vanguard Live Gamer Discussion

The first post:

Please use this thread to discuss any questions or concerns related to Live Gamer. Any new threads created regarding Live Gamer will be merged into this thread.

Message edited by Raijinn on 03/12/2009 09:28:50.  Admin staff

It seems you have fallen for it.  I've been following the boards since the announcement and loads of threads have been merged into the above. Please read the thread and you read that people have cancelled subs, reports of guilds losing members and the RMT service has not gone live yet.  Since the announcement the only response the community has had is over zealous moderation and a couple of admins stating more info about the service.  So far one dev as responded to mention it hasn't drawn resources away from the main development goals.

Can anyone tell me why this a big deal? I really don't get it.

The beginning of this disaster is probably an initial form of subtle purchases.  The effect, if successful, will all but guarantee that developers will have to build content surrounding these payment schemes to enhance and expand their success.  If it works, God forbid, it will be expanded. 

Originally posted by skeaser

Can anyone tell me why this a big deal? I really don't get it.

And this is exactly why RMT is becoming more and more prevalent in MMOs. Because people don't "get it". Allowing people to buy and sell in game items and gold for real life cash will DESTROY the in game economy. Most of the decent items and resources that used to be for sale on the in game exchange broker will now be sold on the "Live Gamer" site for real money. Looking to buy an item from the exchange broker with money you've earned in game? Forget it. Bust out your wallet and cough up some cash, because that will be the only way to buy it. People will be farming items and gold with the sole intention of selling them for cash. Crafters will be putting thier wares up on the LG site for real money.

And for those who say "well, all the best items in Vanguard are BoP, so they can't be sold!"... Don't be so naive. SoE will be making most of the BoP items BoE so they can be sold, and profit made from them. Of that, you can be sure.

And then you have the people who say "meh, RMT is happening anyway, so SOE might as well make it official so it can be controlled and profited from."... Vanguard is not a very popular game. It's subscriber base is among the lowest of all MMOs. Very, very few unofficial RMT sites offered any Vanguard services because there's not nearly enough players to merit their efforts. So participating in RMT for Vanguard was not in any way easy, and you could be banned for it, because it was against the ToS. Now, however, SOE is officially making it part of the game, and encouraging people to use it.

Do you "get it" now?

Now matter how you look at it, RMT is CHEATING. SOE officialy and happily supports and encourages cheating. And as far as I'm concerned, if one is not against it, then one supports it too.

It's not a big deal, I don't like the concept, but it's reality.  Few folks are even talking about it.  The forms are misleading because a small percentage of people that play, use the forums.  And of those that do, a small percentage of those like to get themselves whipped up in a frenzy about certain topics.  That 75 page thread is largely a few of the same folks posting over and over and over again.  I can certainly understand the concept being distasteful to some, but it will have no impact on the game.

Originally posted by boojiboy

It's not a big deal, I don't like the concept, but it's reality.  Few folks are even talking about it.  The forms are misleading because a small percentage of people that play, use the forums.  And of those that do, a small percentage of those like to get themselves whipped up in a frenzy about certain topics.  That 75 page thread is largely a few of the same folks posting over and over and over again.  I can certainly understand the concept being distasteful to some, but it will have no impact on the game.

How could this possibly have no impact on the game?

As the population has gone up, the gold sellers are back and so are the bot farmers.  So 3rd parties are already in the game selling gold and items, resources etc. for real money.  I ignore them.

Now, LiveGamer is set up, that same gold, items and resources can now be sold for real money directly from player to player.  OK, I still ignore it.  And so will 99% of everyone else that plays.

For those few that are actually willing to pay real money for virtual game stuff, I suppose the method of transaction changes for them, but that's it.

Originally posted by boojiboy

It's not a big deal, I don't like the concept, but it's reality.  Few folks are even talking about it.  The forms are misleading because a small percentage of people that play, use the forums.  And of those that do, a small percentage of those like to get themselves whipped up in a frenzy about certain topics.  That 75 page thread is largely a few of the same folks posting over and over and over again.  I can certainly understand the concept being distasteful to some, but it will have no impact on the game.

LOL! The moment Station Exchange was announced in EverQuest 2 there was a mass exodus and mass canceling!

Why you think that The Smed himself personally suddenly made an official announcement on the official board that they changed the implementation plan and went for new Station Exchange enabled servers in the end?

Nonetheless it was already too late, lot of people were fed up and gave up on the game.

Seriously, they lost a ton of players with that stupidity! And these Station Exchange servers were pretty much a failure as population was ridiculously low.

Then Station Cash got stealth patched on ALL EQ1 and EQ2 servers end last year. And that has costed them another ton of players! You could clearly notice the sudden drop of players online ingame.

But still.... It seems SOE doesn't give a F*CK, as they seem to rather have a couple players left with addiction problems spending a ton on their RMT crap shops, then a high number of genuine subscribers.

What SOE is basically doing to their games is turning them into Second Life or Entropia Universe type of games, where people are not playing the game for fun, but to make Real Hard Cash! SOE just becomes a virtual bank, gaining profit on all the transactions that are being made.

And the utter naive people thinking they won't be affected and can fully ignore it. Well I am sorry to burst your little bubbles. As Vanguard is an open seamless world with Open Dungeons. Expect all good places and dungeons to be camped and farmed 24/7!

A lot of people are going to cancel and this stupid Live Gamer crap is gonna bite them in the butt HARD!

Me, my gf and all friends we were playing with have insta canceled, as we are not going to be put up with this crap from SOE any longer!

From all those people I am the only one that read and posted on the official forums. So if you think only few people will cancel over this. Wrong!

Cheers

Originally posted by Guillermo197

But still.... It seems SOE doesn't give a F*CK, as they seem to rather have a couple players left with addiction problems spending a ton on their RMT crap shops, then a high number of genuine subscribers.

Actually, the problem is that no one took it seriously two years ago when SOE announced that they were going to move away from a subscription-based business model towards one that sees at least half of their revenue from RMT and microtransactions, with SOE moving even further in that direction over the next few years:

www.nytimes.com/2007/06/11/business/worldbusiness/11sony.html

“Right now our revenue is almost all subscriptions,” John Smedley, the unit’s president, said in an interview. “In two years, we would like to see no more than 50 percent of our revenue coming from subscriptions, and five years from now we think less than 10 percent of our revenue will come from subscription sources.”

That was back in 2007. They've never made any secret that this was the direction they were moving in. No one should be surprised by LiveGamer coming to VG, or by the StationCash service in EQ and EQ2, or anything like that. It's just that some folks thought SOE would only apply that new direction to future games like Free Realms and The Agency. They didn't want to believe that there was always a real possibility of the current roster of SOE games introducing RMT to boost revenue. 

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by Guillermo197

But still.... It seems SOE doesn't give a F*CK, as they seem to rather have a couple players left with addiction problems spending a ton on their RMT crap shops, then a high number of genuine subscribers.

Actually, the problem is that no one took it seriously two years ago when SOE announced that they were going to move away from a subscription-based business model towards one that sees at least half of their revenue from RMT and microtransactions, with SOE moving even further in that direction over the next few years:

www.nytimes.com/2007/06/11/business/worldbusiness/11sony.html

“Right now our revenue is almost all subscriptions,” John Smedley, the unit’s president, said in an interview. “In two years, we would like to see no more than 50 percent of our revenue coming from subscriptions, and five years from now we think less than 10 percent of our revenue will come from subscription sources.”

That was back in 2007. They've never made any secret that this was the direction they were moving in. No one should be surprised by LiveGamer coming to VG, or by the StationCash service in EQ and EQ2, or anything like that. It's just that some folks thought SOE would only apply that new direction to future games like Free Realms and The Agency. They didn't want to believe that there was always a real possibility of the current roster of SOE games introducing RMT to boost revenue. 

That's because John Smedly himself assured his loyal customers that they would never do any RMT implementations on their existing games. He always said it would be for their future titles.

So people thought and 'hoped' they had actually learned from the NGE debacle and that Smedly would actually keep his word this time.

Now he has lost every last inch of credibility and trust from his loyal customers and I sincerly hope it's finally going to bite them in the butt! HARD!

It's time they are going to learn it the hard way (financially) and that customers are getting fed up and tired constantly being screwed over by SOE.

Originally posted by boojiboy

It's not a big deal, I don't like the concept, but it's reality.  Few folks are even talking about it.  The forms are misleading because a small percentage of people that play, use the forums.  And of those that do, a small percentage of those like to get themselves whipped up in a frenzy about certain topics.  That 75 page thread is largely a few of the same folks posting over and over and over again.  I can certainly understand the concept being distasteful to some, but it will have no impact on the game.

Reality is Blizzard has more and more subs each year and SOE less and less

Reality is VG is an unfinished, bugged and empty world with one of the smallest cities

Reality is a lot of people are going to cancel their accounts and play other games (Eve, Wow F2P, aion etc)

No impact ? ^^ No players.

Originally posted by ougarit

Originally posted by boojiboy

It's not a big deal, I don't like the concept, but it's reality.  Few folks are even talking about it.  The forms are misleading because a small percentage of people that play, use the forums.  And of those that do, a small percentage of those like to get themselves whipped up in a frenzy about certain topics.  That 75 page thread is largely a few of the same folks posting over and over and over again.  I can certainly understand the concept being distasteful to some, but it will have no impact on the game.

 

Reality is Blizzard has more and more subs each year and SOE less and less

Reality is VG is an unfinished, bugged and empty world with one of the smallest cities

Reality is a lot of people are going to cancel their accounts and play other games (Eve, Wow F2P, aion etc)

 

No impact ? ^^ No players.

Hehe, right.

I don't care if Blizzard has all the subs in the world, I don't enjoy WoW.  Sorry to break it to you, but not everyone has to like WoW or WoW-clones.  I don't know about the rest of SoE games other than Vanguard, don't really like them either, but Vanguard has been growing for at least 6 months now.

If you think that VG is unfinished, buggy and empty, then you obviously haven't played the game or kept up with it for quite a long time.  And Vanguard Trolls have been coming to this forum since the game launched declaring that McQuaid killed it, that Sony would kill it, that Tabula Rosa would kill it, that LotRo would kill it, that Bind on Equip would kill it, that AoC would definitely kill it, that the new character models would kill it, that Warhammer would kill it, that Darkfall would kill it........

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.  Your kind of rhetoric hasn't changed in 2-years.  So I could care less if WoW has more subscribers and I certainly DON'T want the typical WoW-crowd switching to Vanguard.  Vanguard is fun for me and many others and the game is doing well as evidenced by growing population, new content and the upcoming 'free expansion'.

Originally posted by boojiboy

Originally posted by ougarit

Originally posted by boojiboy

It's not a big deal, I don't like the concept, but it's reality.  Few folks are even talking about it.  The forms are misleading because a small percentage of people that play, use the forums.  And of those that do, a small percentage of those like to get themselves whipped up in a frenzy about certain topics.  That 75 page thread is largely a few of the same folks posting over and over and over again.  I can certainly understand the concept being distasteful to some, but it will have no impact on the game.

 

Reality is Blizzard has more and more subs each year and SOE less and less

Reality is VG is an unfinished, bugged and empty world with one of the smallest cities

Reality is a lot of people are going to cancel their accounts and play other games (Eve, Wow F2P, aion etc)

 

No impact ? ^^ No players.

 

Hehe, right.

I don't care if Blizzard has all the subs in the world, I don't enjoy WoW.  Sorry to break it to you, but not everyone has to like WoW or WoW-clones.  I don't know about the rest of SoE games other than Vanguard, don't really like them either, but Vanguard has been growing for at least 6 months now.

If you think that VG is unfinished, buggy and empty, then you obviously haven't played the game or kept up with it for quite a long time.  And Vanguard Trolls have been coming to this forum since the game launched declaring that McQuaid killed it, that Sony would kill it, that Tabula Rosa would kill it, that LotRo would kill it, that Bind on Equip would kill it, that AoC would definitely kill it, that the new character models would kill it, that Warhammer would kill it, that Darkfall would kill it........

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.  Your kind of rhetoric hasn't changed in 2-years.  So I could care less if WoW has more subscribers and I certainly DON'T want the typical WoW-crowd switching to Vanguard.  Vanguard is fun for me and many others and the game is doing well as evidenced by growing population, new content and the upcoming 'free expansion'.

I'm not a vanguard troll.  I absolutely love the game.  I was playing up until I read about the RMT.  There are many like me.  I'm done with it.  I'm so pissed because it's the only mmo I enjoy.

Originally posted by Guillermo197

That's because John Smedly himself assured his loyal customers that they would never do any RMT implementations on their existing games. He always said it would be for their future titles.

So people thought and 'hoped' they had actually learned from the NGE debacle and that Smedly would actually keep his word this time.

Now he has lost every last inch of credibility and trust from his loyal customers and I sincerly hope it's finally going to bite them in the butt! HARD!

It's time they are going to learn it the hard way (financially) and that customers are getting fed up and tired constantly being screwed over by SOE.

Again, the problem was that people were naive.

If the stated goal of SOE back in 2007 was to go from a 100% subscription-based model to one that saw no more than 50% of its revenue from subs in two years, there simply was no other way to do that except introducing some form of RMT/cash shops to the current line-up of games. There was just no way they were going to release enough new games within that two year window to make up the difference.

Honestly, between the trading card games like Legends of Norrath, the RMT-based games SOE has bought like PoxNora, and the introduction of StationCash across all servers in EQ and EQ2, this has been happening for a long, long time. SOE just isn't going to fall back and rely on the StationPass anymore. They're aiming for a younger, more casual audience, and one that has fewer qualms about RMT in games, given the very real popularity of RMT-based games on the market like Rock Band and Guitar Hero.

I don't play Vanguard, so I can't judge how this change will affect VG's playerbase. The 85+ page thread on the official forums is no help either, because a lot of the same names keep popping up over and over and over and over, and even some of those folks concede that when they talk about LiveGamer in game, the responses range from silence, to "so what?" Still, this move by SOE should not have been a surprise given what their long-term goals for their business model are. RMT of some form is here to stay in their games because that's the direction they're moving in.

Look, it's simple, people are over reacting. The Sony Exchange is not like the f2p shops where you buy kick ass items, in fact the only item available that effects game play are potions, and of those only the exp potions are not available through regular game play. If it bothers you that much, then please, by all means leave, we definitely could do without the sniffling and sobbing. But for most of us, yes MOST, we won't let it bother us.

Some are going to explode saying that using the word MOST is a gross exageration or lie, but numbers don't lie people, they wouldn't be implementing it in VG if it weren't doing well in their other uses. Sony is not an evil empire out to kidnap your children and steal your kitten, they're a business out to make money, and obviously, the net income outweighs the loss of subs.