---

Originally posted by andmiller
And to be suprised or outraged at their "transparency" is just funny. 

---

Funny how? They are charging full retail price for a beta product. I don't find that funny at all.

Originally posted by robertb

 

No hard feelings.The game is obviously not for you. 

if you just had quoted his post and answered "The game is obviously not for you" all would have been ok. 

By adding the "No hard feelings" you just engrossed the ever expanding list of  simpletons or para olympics that shouldn't  have reached the point to have access to something as advanced like the internet. Yet, there are people that like to look stupid so maybe we should give you a bit of layway.

Still, as a consumer, being of a game or any other product, he does have the right to demand some degree of updated  information about one product from the manufacturer.

 Even more in fact when talking about software,something that suffers several changes in the development stage.

In fact, there are even some comunitary (from the european union) guide lines about this subject if I recall correctly, and since Aventurine is operating inside the EU space might be in violation of that. Pity that is a saturday or I could research a bit about this in the gabinet.

Originally posted by andmiller

It still boggles my mind that there is so much conversation about a game that has > 20K people playing it.    There are probably more people playing competitive Pong than people playing this game.  Until and if, they ever actually get a distributor, I don't see why we even discus it.  They should just sell it to SOE already so they can support it.  Then we can see the threads each week about the "changes" they are making that are breaking the game..... 

 

And to be suprised or outraged at their "transparency" is just funny. 

It's like tain wreck TV. Also people are angry that they continue to completely mis represent the game. See the thread that lists a whole bunch of features that are being promoted as being in the game and have been axed. But you are right it's kind of funny there are flash based games wih more player, hell there are flash based games that are more complex.

Originally posted by ianubisi

 

---

Originally posted by andmiller
And to be suprised or outraged at their "transparency" is just funny. 

---

 

Funny how? They are charging full retail price for a beta product. I don't find that funny at all.

Funny because if you expected anything different, based on their development cycle and behavior/interaction with the community throughout, then you were delusional.  I doubt there were any people who went through the pathetic distribution process without following the game's development, so you should not be surprised.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by robertb

Originally posted by ianubisi

This is the total failure of Darkfall.

Is the game actually released? Their website doesn't suggest so, but yet news releases on gaming sites seem to suggest that it is. What is the truth?

What are the features of this game? Is there an empirical list of features that someone can display that details the actual features of the game today? Or is there a list of "in development" features with a schedule attached?

Does the company intend to support the playerbase the would like to play? If so, when will they allow people to play on demand? Do they have a schedule for expanding or contracting their exposure to the market to meet the demand, or lack of demand?

...

Where is the transparency? Where is the full faith and trust in the consumer?

This is what has doomed this game to third-world status.

Its failure is not due to a presence of bugs...every release has bugs...WOW and LoTRO had their fair share and they were both highly polished releases.

Its failure is not due to a lack of robustness and polish...there are plenty of games that can survive a pitiful start and achieve a solid and successful base. Anarchy Online and EVE Online were both horridly released games that went on to great things.

Its failure is not due to it being a small independent company with limited resources. CCP, Turbine, Mythic...all small shops with a will to accomplish. It can be done, and will be done again in the future.

No.

It is a total lack of willingness to be open and share the trials and tribulations of this journey. There is little harm that can come from being forthright about the hardships on this journey, after all most people are well aware that this is not a game funded by the deep pockets of corporate interests.

So why the silence? Why the shrouded mystique? What purpose can it serve to continue a veil of secrecy? It disempowers the partisan champion and only emboldens the cynics. Truth is the most potent antibody to the disease of misinformation.

Being a small company is no excuse for this. It takes very little to communicate with the public...little more than a small amount of thoughtfulness and a small dose of faith in the community you wish to nurture. The smaller the operation the more important it is to maintain a very strong bond with the community you are hoping to foster.

Instead, Aventurine offers a total disregard and mistrust for the consumer. Any self-resepecting adult with any reasonable experience in this world should know better than to allow themselves to be abused in such a manner.

....

Demand information.

Demand integrity.

Demand equity in words and actions.

Demand respect.

And above all demand transparency. It is very easy to provide and the height of spiteful arrogance to deny.

 

 

 

The game is obviously not for you. 

 

No hard feelings.

Wait so just because the guy wants for Aventurine to provide actual information like any service provider should, the game is not for him?

Am I the only one who think that there is something wrong with that point of view?

Guy 1: "Hey can I know what this burger is made out of?

Guy 2: "The burger is obviously not for you."

See how silly that sounds?

Not as silly as someone whining that he is not getting a favorable response to his demands.

I deal with this issue with my own child, so am somewhat accustomed to the attitude.

Judging by the website, the game is still in beta! YOU CAN STILL SIGN UP! QUICK GET IN BEFORE YOU ACCIDENTLY BUY THIS GAME.

Oops, too late.

Originally posted by Theutus

They're not really being that secretive... I think info is hard to come across because they don't know how to get it out there properly. Every question you want answered can be found on their forums, you have to work to find the info though.

 

 

You can create an account below to purchase the game... which will be some time they aren't selling anymore until they lower que times...

https://www.darkfallonline.com/accounts/f/default.php?pname=Homepage

 

Forum info about the game..

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=149310

The graphics are dated, but who cares. The sound is wacky until you set it up properly. You have to disable several video options in order for it be smooth. I have an average 70 - 100 FPS with a geforce 9800 gtx and 4 gig of RAM.

The gameplay takes getting used to, but its fun. The AI can be a pain in the butt, which is fun. Roaming bands of PKers can be a pain in the butt, which is fun. I've run into one bug that is very aggrivating, the GMs replied within 30 minutes...

It can feel very rewarding standing in an afk macroers line of fire, making them go rogue so you can kill them.

I dunno I guess all I'm saying is I don't think people are really looking for answers as much as they are just trolling and bitching because crap isn't placed on a silver platter for them.

They're not really being that secretive... this is as far as I needed to read.

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by ianubisi

This is the total failure of Darkfall.

Is the game actually released? Their website doesn't suggest so, but yet news releases on gaming sites seem to suggest that it is. What is the truth?

 

 

The game is released, chill out.
All the features in it are implemented and fully functional.
The game is fun as hell, and it is one of the most complete releases I played (in terms of content).

Only thing really missing is the fluff stuff, like wild animals, and wandering mobs (at the moment they are only in selected areas like dungeons cities and ruins).
Also PvE is not as developed as in other games, few quests and not too many dungeons.
But since it is a PvP centered game, doesn't really matter.

But the major features are all there:
-Alliance System: Clan can ally with each other in game and share the same chat and resourcers. Your journal keep track of who your guild is allied or Kos to. The Guild master can put in KoS or Ally any guild with the click of a button and the whole server will know about.
-Guild system: Guilds have ranks in it (Like General, Lieutenant, Sergeant etc.....), at the moment they are fixed, but AV will make it customizable in the next few patches.
-Rogue system: People go Rogue if the hit or kill people of the same race. Any other race and enemy clans are fair game.
-Player City building: Only guilds can build their own city and they can do so only on selected area (so no single player house building). Cities includes all crafting stations (Smithy, Smelter, Alchemy, Work bench and so on........) plus some special buildings like quarries, mines, groves and farms where extraction rate is much better than normal nodes. Only the biggest cities have those special buildings.
Also you can mount Cannons to each tower to help defending the walls.
You lose a city when a raid force conquers your clan stone.
-The economy: The bank system is universal, which means that you can deposit and withdraw from anywhere. However there is not an AH, this is intended, although AV said they will implement some NPCs vendors which can see your stuff locally.
-Crafting: Crafters can craft absolutely everything in this game, from mounts to weapons, buildings, armors, food, potions, ammunitions
-Loot: Of course we all know about the full loot system, grat stuff. Also regarding the NPCs looting that's quite realistic, the mobs drop what they are wearing.
So if you see an NPC guard with full plate, he will drop some of that. Animals do not drop any equipment, usually they drop only reagents.
-AI: Mobs use line of sight, which means that if they can see you they will approach you, if you are not in front of them they won't see you.
When you fight a mob they move around you, they do not stay still, the run away then charge back or they ll shoot you with a bow.
Mobs AI in Darkfall is one of the best.
-Ship building: Many ships available, although the biggest ships have not being built yet, because the clans are focusing on building their own city.
-Skill Trees: There are lots of skills both Crafting and combat related, all working, in total the original ones are more or less 250, but some are repeated with some variations in other tress. Of course there is no traditional leveling (or linear leveling) which makes the game so much more enjoyable, without the pressure of having to grind mobs in order to reach level cap.
-Combat: I will explain this by telling you it is very similar to Morrowind/Oblivion. So you have the idea. You need to basically aim for everything in particular if you are an Archer or a Mage.
-Sieges: Pretty much in, although people is focusing on building the cities at the moment so there isn't much going on.

This is not a game for soloers, you will have to be in some kind of guild in order to have fun.
This is a game in between Shadowbane and Ultima Online, with some SWG aspects.
To me the game is great, but it is not for all.
But yes the game exist and it is one of the best, if we talk about features implementation.

There is one big problem though.
Aventurine, for some weird reasons, wants to keep this game as a niche game and it is not doing any effort to open more servers.
The current one (EU1) is already full and they close the sales until they increase the capacity of this one, at the moment there are huge queues to enter the game.
They didn't plan to open new ones yet, unfortunately.

So, that's the only "shady" or weird thing going on with DF, and it is the fact that Aventurine refuses to risk opening more servers.
But the game itself is fantastic for PvPers, in particular the ones who like clan vs clan warfare, DF is much much better than all the PvP shit coming from Asia, and way better than both AoC and WAR (unleass you are a carebear in which case those 2 will be a better option).

Your full of it. Thier own official webpage is full of features that didnt make it into the game. FURTHER...it still hasnt been updated to reflect the REALITY of what DFO presents to a prospective customer. Seriously whats in that koolaidz?
 

It's a good business model if you want to suck people in who don't know any better.  Hence, no open beta and no free trials.

Originally posted by robertb

 

Not as silly as someone whining that he is not getting a favorable response to his demands.

 

I deal with this issue with my own child, so am somewhat accustomed to the attitude.

So if your child saved up his allowance to purchase something and when he got it home it was clearly not as advertised and the company that produced it would not return calls or publish information about what they where doing (or when) they would rectify the situation you would just tell him/her to suck it down?

Sounds like you are raising a good little blue collar drone there. Question nothing know your place. Enquiring minds want to know.

Normally it feels good to be right about AV, but after awhile you just start to feel bad. We all knew that AV had no experience in the MMORPG world. We knew Tasos was an incompetant bullshit artist. We knew they didnt have enough staff to pull this off. Heck we knew the game launch was going to be horrific, even with "AI testing bots". We knew they were being secretive for a reason.

I mean are we really suprised? I doubt AV has the manpower to do anything beyond try to fix the problems with DF.

Originally posted by Gorilla

Originally posted by robertb

 

Not as silly as someone whining that he is not getting a favorable response to his demands.

 

I deal with this issue with my own child, so am somewhat accustomed to the attitude.

 

So if your child saved up his allowance to purchase something and when he got it home it was clearly not as advertised and the company that produced it would not return calls or publish information about what they where doing (or when) they would rectify the situation you would just tell him/her to suck it down?

Sounds like you are raising a good little blue collar drone there. Question nothing know your place. Enquiring minds want to know.

Gorilla
 

Anyone that has been following the DF launch can tell ya that Mr Bobbie B there rates with Darth as "Biggest Fanboi" of this game.

What could he really say to the OP(which started the exchange of posts)? Everything as far as AV's behavior, pertaining to the web site, is inexcusable. So Mr B attempted to deflect the criticism, rather than own up to it.

Typical fanboi tactics. Par for the course lately.

That isnt why I am posting....I have a problem with your attitude towards blue collar individuals.

Your stereo-typical comment reeks of both ignorance, and self deluded importance.

As bad as Mr B's tactics have been since DFs launch... your little smear, of the working class, puts you in much worse company.

You must of been born with a silver spoon in your mouth. As a person that comes from a working class home, I realize my college education doesnt make me any "better" than my parents.

If you were grounded in reality, you would realize that yourself...instead of coming off as a total arsehole.

Originally posted by robertb

Originally posted by ianubisi

This is the total failure of Darkfall.

Is the game actually released? Their website doesn't suggest so, but yet news releases on gaming sites seem to suggest that it is. What is the truth?

What are the features of this game? Is there an empirical list of features that someone can display that details the actual features of the game today? Or is there a list of "in development" features with a schedule attached?

Does the company intend to support the playerbase the would like to play? If so, when will they allow people to play on demand? Do they have a schedule for expanding or contracting their exposure to the market to meet the demand, or lack of demand?

...

Where is the transparency? Where is the full faith and trust in the consumer?

This is what has doomed this game to third-world status.

Its failure is not due to a presence of bugs...every release has bugs...WOW and LoTRO had their fair share and they were both highly polished releases.

Its failure is not due to a lack of robustness and polish...there are plenty of games that can survive a pitiful start and achieve a solid and successful base. Anarchy Online and EVE Online were both horridly released games that went on to great things.

Its failure is not due to it being a small independent company with limited resources. CCP, Turbine, Mythic...all small shops with a will to accomplish. It can be done, and will be done again in the future.

No.

It is a total lack of willingness to be open and share the trials and tribulations of this journey. There is little harm that can come from being forthright about the hardships on this journey, after all most people are well aware that this is not a game funded by the deep pockets of corporate interests.

So why the silence? Why the shrouded mystique? What purpose can it serve to continue a veil of secrecy? It disempowers the partisan champion and only emboldens the cynics. Truth is the most potent antibody to the disease of misinformation.

Being a small company is no excuse for this. It takes very little to communicate with the public...little more than a small amount of thoughtfulness and a small dose of faith in the community you wish to nurture. The smaller the operation the more important it is to maintain a very strong bond with the community you are hoping to foster.

Instead, Aventurine offers a total disregard and mistrust for the consumer. Any self-resepecting adult with any reasonable experience in this world should know better than to allow themselves to be abused in such a manner.

....

Demand information.

Demand integrity.

Demand equity in words and actions.

Demand respect.

And above all demand transparency. It is very easy to provide and the height of spiteful arrogance to deny.

 

 

 

The game is obviously not for you. 

 

No hard feelings.

Wow ... that must be the worst reply I ever read on mmorpg.com. He wasn't even addressing the game on it's merits, dude. He merely, but rightfully puts AV on trial for the total lack of information and transparency which we, the potential customers, have to put up with. I was a fence sitter myself and spent quite some hours browsing these boards and watching youtube vids but exactly this issue which the OP phrased so clearly, left me without confidence in AV.

The only reason I can think off is that they are mortally afraid of attention since having the game up and running on multiple servers and open to all newcomers is not something they expect to happen anytime shortly, that and; "Every postponement or setback we communicate about will be more fuel on the fire for all the cynics out there".

A vallid reason, considering they were already leading the 'fuck ups' chart in the developement cycle and they already had so much crap coming their way. But they fail to realize that NOT being open, honest and clear about the issues they are facing and the current state of things, is making things worse for those who are able to forgive shortcomings at launch and are interested in the game nonetheless. Their non-com pollicy adds insult to injury to the fencesitters like the OP and me, rather than the trolls who would flame the game anyway.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Gorilla
 

 

Anyone that has been following the DF launch can tell ya that Mr Bobbie B there rates with Darth as "Biggest Fanboi" of this game.

What could he really say to the OP(which started the exchange of posts)? Everything as far as AV's behavior, pertaining to the web site, is inexcusable. So Mr B attempted to deflect the criticism, rather than own up to it.

Typical fanboi tactics. Par for the course lately.

That isnt why I am posting....I have a problem with your attitude towards blue collar individuals.

Your stereo-typical comment reeks of both ignorance, and self deluded importance.

As bad as Mr B's tactics have been since DFs launch... your little smear, of the working class, puts you in much worse company.

You must of been born with a silver spoon in your mouth. As a person that comes from a working class home, I realize my college education doesnt make me any "better" than my parents.

If you were grounded in reality, you would realize that yourself...instead of coming off as a total arsehole.

 

Your quite correct, I apologise unreservedly. His inane and vacuous post had me seeing the red mist and I was not thinking clearly. Still, thats no excuse.

Originally posted by ianubisi

Demand information.

Demand integrity.

Demand equity in words and actions.

Demand respect.

And above all demand transparency. It is very easy to provide and the height of spiteful arrogance to deny.

 

Demand? How much money have you invested in this game?

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by robertb

The game is obviously not for you. 

 

No hard feelings.

Wow ... that must be the worst reply I ever read on mmorpg.com. He wasn't even addressing the game on it's merits, dude. He merely, but rightfully puts AV on trial for the total lack of information and transparency which we, the potential customers, have to put up with. I was a fence sitter myself and spent quite some hours browsing these boards and watching youtube vids but exactly this issue which the OP phrased so clearly, left me without confidence in AV.

The only reason I can think off is that they are mortally afraid of attention since having the game up and running on multiple servers and open to all newcomers is not something they expect to happen anytime shortly, that and; "Every postponement or setback we communicate about will be more fuel on the fire for all the cynics out there".

A vallid reason, considering they were already leading the 'fuck ups' chart in the developement cycle and they already had so much crap coming their way. But they fail to realize that NOT being open, honest and clear about the issues they are facing and the current state of things, is making things worse for those who are able to forgive shortcomings at launch and are interested in the game nonetheless. Their non-com pollicy adds insult to injury to the fencesitters like the OP and me, rather than the trolls who would flame the game anyway.

Your personal feelings have little bearing on my enjoyment of the game. As I am, in reality, enjoying the game and since I am not really interested in the demands of individuals regarding what they believe the game should be, or what the developers should do, my answer was actually just about right.

Originally posted by robertb

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by robertb

The game is obviously not for you. 

 

No hard feelings.

Wow ... that must be the worst reply I ever read on mmorpg.com. He wasn't even addressing the game on it's merits, dude. He merely, but rightfully puts AV on trial for the total lack of information and transparency which we, the potential customers, have to put up with. I was a fence sitter myself and spent quite some hours browsing these boards and watching youtube vids but exactly this issue which the OP phrased so clearly, left me without confidence in AV.

The only reason I can think off is that they are mortally afraid of attention since having the game up and running on multiple servers and open to all newcomers is not something they expect to happen anytime shortly, that and; "Every postponement or setback we communicate about will be more fuel on the fire for all the cynics out there".

A vallid reason, considering they were already leading the 'fuck ups' chart in the developement cycle and they already had so much crap coming their way. But they fail to realize that NOT being open, honest and clear about the issues they are facing and the current state of things, is making things worse for those who are able to forgive shortcomings at launch and are interested in the game nonetheless. Their non-com pollicy adds insult to injury to the fencesitters like the OP and me, rather than the trolls who would flame the game anyway.

 

Your personal feelings have little bearing on my enjoyment of the game. As I am, in reality, enjoying the game and since I am not really interested in the demands of individuals regarding what they believe the game should be, or what the developers should do, my answer was actually just about right.

 

I have to agree. I don't understand who these people believe they are...demanding a company give them full transparency. This isn't the United States Government and they don't pay taxes to Darkfall Online. I'm beginning to question the intelligence of people who play MMOs.

Perhaps someone will explain it to me. How do you have the right to demand AV do anything? Because you pay $15 dollars a month?

the game clearly hasnt been "released"... its a closed paid beta...

if it was released and they accepted payment, they would be in contravention of around a dozen EU laws related to the sales of goods act...

a) product is not fit for purpose.

b) deliberate misleading advertising

c) no provision for customer support

etc etc...

if they were "open for business", the DTI in the UK at least would have them shut down within 24 hours... if the game really did have the potential they claim, no bank would deny them the credit necessary to put in place a business capable of servicing the game and its subscribers. As it is, Darkfall amounts to little more than an experiment where 10k suckers pay for the priviledge to enter the world created by a couple of gaming enthusiasts... It will never be anything more than that... and its time to put darkfall to one side and move on to something else, more serious, with ambitions.

Originally posted by dijpa

the game clearly hasnt been "released"... its a closed paid beta...

if it was released and they accepted payment, they would be in contravention of around a dozen EU laws related to the sales of goods act...

 

a) product is not fit for purpose.

b) deliberate misleading advertising

c) no provision for customer support

etc etc...

 

if they were "open for business", the DTI in the UK at least would have them shut down within 24 hours... if the game really did have the potential they claim, no bank would deny them the credit necessary to put in place a business capable of servicing the game and its subscribers. As it is, Darkfall amounts to little more than an experiment where 10k suckers pay for the priviledge to enter the world created by a couple of gaming enthusiasts... It will never be anything more than that... and its time to put darkfall to one side and move on to something else, more serious, with ambitions.

lololololol

Originally posted by robertb

Originally posted by dijpa

the game clearly hasnt been "released"... its a closed paid beta...

if it was released and they accepted payment, they would be in contravention of around a dozen EU laws related to the sales of goods act...

 

a) product is not fit for purpose.

b) deliberate misleading advertising

c) no provision for customer support

etc etc...

 

if they were "open for business", the DTI in the UK at least would have them shut down within 24 hours... if the game really did have the potential they claim, no bank would deny them the credit necessary to put in place a business capable of servicing the game and its subscribers. As it is, Darkfall amounts to little more than an experiment where 10k suckers pay for the priviledge to enter the world created by a couple of gaming enthusiasts... It will never be anything more than that... and its time to put darkfall to one side and move on to something else, more serious, with ambitions.

 

lololololol

Don't know the details of EU retail laws but given Av have still not updated there website... well just seems amatuer.

... this sir is no laughing matter. Seriously can you not use your DF fandom and subscription to get them to UPDATE the website. Least then the misunderstanding stop. Go find Lord Tasos and ask nicely. Oh thats right AV don't have any customer service. Damn !

/sigh... AV deserve to be mocked until this one simple thing is done. Why is it always so utterly mad with the company ?