Originally posted by xXSeraphielX

Originally posted by stillkillin

video games suck now

i have not played anything good in the last 5 years outside swg pre-cu before it was stolen from us by $OE

i blame this casual gaming fad and yes it is a fad and the consoles

casual gamers are a ton of kiddies who need to go back to watching mtv or the wwe and consoles are the worst thing to ever happen to gaming

but i have seen a drop in gaming sales meaning the kiddies are going back to watching mtv and the wwe so i think we will have good gaming back in another year

 

Casual Gaming Fad? Consoles? These are the problems? I disagree it is profiteering money hungry whores making the games.... I remember games on the NES and SNES being 80 hours of gameplay.... some more some less... but if it was a 10 hour game people would not have touched it. I think perhaps you should think about this a little more. The problem is that too many companies have started to believe that graphics are everything and invest so much time and money making the game look great, but leave the gameplay to dwindle.

Part of the problem is also the elitist attitude between gamers, instead of supporting great ideas and embracing quality work. PC Gamers refer to console gamers as being a "Lesser species" and console gamers often thinking the pc gamer "Fat and living in moms basement". But lets face it, gamers come from all walks of life, does it matter if they choose to play on a console or PC? No, quit preaching that one "class" of gamer has caused this.... it lies upon all of us gamers. We have all accepted crappy games, and supported companies not worth supporting. If we want an end to this problem here is the solution.......

STOP buying overhyped crap games, make the companies improve what they are releasing. Buying games just because of the name is also to blame... for example Halo 1... Fun game, however as it progressed the quality also took a plunge Ie. look at Halo 3. As for MMO's I truely believe a try before you buy attitude is the best.

As you get older and start balancing a career, family, and entertainment you will find that a casual gamer is what you will become.

My 2 cents

xXSeraphielXx

Some words of wisdom here I think.  Regarding sending a message to the MMO industry as consumers, I think the population ratio between quality games like WoW and busted to hell games like SWG and Vanguard at release screams a fairly clear message to companies like SOE.  Are they listening though?  It sure doesn't seem like it to me.  Tabula Rasa also had a rough release according to the guy who designed it, and what happened?  R.I.P.  I wonder if anyone learned anything from that one.
 

it is clear

in order for real gaming to come back we need to get rid of casual games and the consoles

Originally posted by stillkillin

it is clear

in order for real gaming to come back we need to get rid of casual games and the consoles

Well I'm old now lol, and have career responsibilities, family and other community involvement, so I like games that make room for casual players.
 

One game that I thought did this well was City of Heroes.  They have 8 hour Task Forces for the hardcore PC gamer, and 20 minute missions for old, busy people like me ^_^.

On the console point, I kind of agree, in a way.   I like my console games, mind you, but don't think they should be mixed with PC gaming until the consoles can handle things that my PC can.  My PC is still a lot smarter than most consoles for example, and I have a bazillion control options on the PC compared with what feels like a rather limited amount of options with most console controllers.  I just don't think they should mix platforms until they're more equal in capability.  If I feel that my PC capabilities are being squandered to accomodate console players, I'm going to feel that I'm getting less than I could and should from the service provider.

Really the only reason I can think think of that a service provider (SP if you don't mind) would do that is to maximize market exposure and profit--at the expense of the PC gamer.  Of course PC gamers aren't going to go for that, but some of the corporate fat cats calling the shots these days in the MMO world don't seem to have a clue.

This cluelessness and focus on nothing but the gamer's visa card (to hell with quality and customer support)  is really what I think needs to go; and I think that would solve the cross-platform issue too--that is until PCs and consoles are truly equal in processing and control power, if that ever happens.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

When did video gaming change so drastically?  I have to wonder what that's all about and whether or not the industry will ever find its way back to the roots that made it so popular.

I'll save you the wondering: no it won't.  As for when did it happen, that's harder to say, but whenever gaming became 'mainstream' is when it happened. 

The reason for that initial popularity (the late 80s/early 90s) was because an entire generation of kids grew up nerdy, and games (and early incarnations of the Internet) were their playground. 

Online gaming used to be almost exclusively the province of geeks and engineering types, and some would argue that those were the days.  Now, pre-pubescent girls and grandmothers are on mySpace, Twitter, and Warcraft, and the folks that used to think of the 'net and online gaming as a sort of refuge from the socialite masses they had to deal with in their real lives are seeing their favorite pastimes diluted because they've suddently become 'cool,' and hence an avenue to profitability.  There are more games now than ever before, and many of high quality, but there is also more shit, and something has very definitely been lost as the medium has gained social acceptance.

Too bad, but that's the way of things. 

Originally posted by veritas_X

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

When did video gaming change so drastically?  I have to wonder what that's all about and whether or not the industry will ever find its way back to the roots that made it so popular.

 

I'll save you the wondering: no it won't.  As for when did it happen, that's harder to say, but whenever gaming became 'mainstream' is when it happened. 

The reason for that initial popularity (the late 80s/early 90s) was because an entire generation of kids grew up nerdy, and games (and early incarnations of the Internet) were their playground. 

Online gaming used to be almost exclusively the province of geeks and engineering types, and some would argue that those were the days.  Now, pre-pubescent girls and grandmothers are on mySpace, Twitter, and Warcraft, and the folks that used to think of the 'net and online gaming as a sort of refuge from the socialite masses they had to deal with in their real lives are seeing their favorite pastimes diluted because they've suddently become 'cool,' and hence an avenue to profitability.  There are more games now than ever before, and many of high quality, but there is also more shit, and something has very definitely been lost as the medium has gained social acceptance.

Too bad, but that's the way of things. 

 

I think they still are about entertainment, but the "target" has changed as you say and that the good games and bad games are there also as you say. 

 In one game I play I am in  a guild of people where at 45 I'm ancient and they all like twitch fps and can game me under the table.  In another game I play similar in many respects but its more fantasy based I play in a guild where i am in fact the YOUNGEST.  The bulk of players are pushing 65+ and I play with one that is over 80.. they play the game differently of course and I have a night and day experience between the two games and guilds I'm a member of.   The 80 year old lady has just had her cataracts removed, can stil barely see , has slow reaction time and can't take part in large group events .  Actualy about half the guild is like that lol but it stil functions and we have fun.   In both cases both types of guilds exist in both games.  Obviously there is something for both types of people to enjoy in both games.   The population diversity of people behind the computers is something that truly amazes me.  I mean I'm playing computer games with people who are on one side of things young enough to be my kid on one and and grandmother materials (well not mine she would be over 100..) on the other end.  This could not be said about past games.  They were not kid friendly nor where they grandma friendly.  I dont think that part is a bad thing.   I just dont want to see the cost of these games skyrocket this is my issue.   However obiously the grandma who can't take part in huge group functions wants access to uber weapons and loot to.  She likes "epics" just as much as the 16 year old kids perhaps more.  IN fact at times she seems to play the kids under the table as far as staying power.    Gaming is now in flux and I hope when it adjusts itself that it is something I will still enjoy.  For the moment though I still enjoy it.  Yes its changed, but I find what is present now to be fun and of good quality as well its just not the same as it was when gaming first started out.    I enjoy my huge guild stuffed with young males filled with testosterone and my guild of old farts who look at me as the youngster and the games they are a part of lol. 

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Hozloff

for instance: how does virtual item properties have any effect on the fun factor? how does the choice of buying virtual items influence the core game's entertainment? or let me put it this way - what difference is there between a bought virtual item and one that is included in the game in terms of entertainment value (it seems to me you are questionning the value of games here, not their fun factor)

 

I believe that it's about the experience of getting that item. Buying it lessens the experience IMO.

Also, someone who buys via an online store a comparable item to something I've worked for essentially devalues what I've worked for.

If buying an item lessens its value, then why do you sandbox guys howl for a trader loot system? I mean cmon...you cant have it both ways.

Cause you nailed it right there...buying it lessens the experience of looting said item from a dead mob yourself. To make trader a viable class, you have to remove that aspect from gaming. So you sure didnt "earn it". You saved and bought it...be it with in game or RL cash.

Sort of takes the point out of adventuring when there is no tangible showing of content completed, just of money saved.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Hozloff

for instance: how does virtual item properties have any effect on the fun factor? how does the choice of buying virtual items influence the core game's entertainment? or let me put it this way - what difference is there between a bought virtual item and one that is included in the game in terms of entertainment value (it seems to me you are questionning the value of games here, not their fun factor)

 

I believe that it's about the experience of getting that item. Buying it lessens the experience IMO.

Also, someone who buys via an online store a comparable item to something I've worked for essentially devalues what I've worked for.

 

If buying an item lessens its value, then why do you sandbox guys howl for a trader loot system? I mean cmon...you cant have it both ways.

Cause you nailed it right there...buying it lessens the experience of looting said item from a dead mob yourself. To make trader a viable class, you have to remove that aspect from gaming. So you sure didnt "earn it". You saved and bought it...be it with in game or RL cash.

Sort of takes the point out of adventuring when there is no tangible showing of content completed, just of money saved.

I'm sorry you missunderstood me Moaky. I guess what I shold have said to make it more clear (and for some to take my comment out of context) was buying items out of game with real world money lessens the experience in game. It simply removes the immersion from a world simulation.

And acquiring an item in game is not neccessarily about looting that item.

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Hozloff

for instance: how does virtual item properties have any effect on the fun factor? how does the choice of buying virtual items influence the core game's entertainment? or let me put it this way - what difference is there between a bought virtual item and one that is included in the game in terms of entertainment value (it seems to me you are questionning the value of games here, not their fun factor)

 

I believe that it's about the experience of getting that item. Buying it lessens the experience IMO.

Also, someone who buys via an online store a comparable item to something I've worked for essentially devalues what I've worked for.

 

If buying an item lessens its value, then why do you sandbox guys howl for a trader loot system? I mean cmon...you cant have it both ways.

Cause you nailed it right there...buying it lessens the experience of looting said item from a dead mob yourself. To make trader a viable class, you have to remove that aspect from gaming. So you sure didnt "earn it". You saved and bought it...be it with in game or RL cash.

Sort of takes the point out of adventuring when there is no tangible showing of content completed, just of money saved.

 

I'm sorry you missunderstood me Moaky. I guess what I shold have said to make it more clear (and for some to take my comment out of context) was buying items out of game with real world money lessens the experience in game. It simply removes the immersion from a world simulation.

And acquiring an item in game is not neccessarily about looting that item.

I think probably most people understood what you were saying Suvroc.  I also think people generally choose not to be baited into pointless arguments by folks that seem to thrive on them for some bizarre reason.  Rather than being baited and responding in kind, your clarification was respectful as always.

I also agree that some of the recent RMT models add nothing to the game.  They put a real money price tag on things that used to be obtained by actually playing the game and having fun.  This certainly does break immersion. It really seems to take away from the gaming experience on multiple levels, which brings us back to the original premise of the thread.  Some gaming companies seem to concern themselves less with entertainment and more with streamlining ways to access your visa card.