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3/12/09 1:22:22 PM#61
Originally posted by Naranar Well you have problem reading what did i say i explained every thing you underlined so you failed to understand and read what i did said and you should really better tell me what is not clear than its not clear because if you dont its worthless again like most of things you are saying And yeah if you cant post me after like 5 posts where i clearly see Warhammer bleeding and not server mergers or Age of conan gaining subscribers and then clear nothing.Well I'm pretty sure there is clear why i cant understand what you are saying.
is there anything sure of besides "AoC sux" Oh and making things yet again?Where o my i said this that AoC sux?I want to see it now with Age of conan Subscribtions increase and with warhammer bleeding with statement from Mythic/EA and FunCom if not there no way to prove you're right then OP cant be making mistake/lying and there is no point continue with this discussion.
so every time im gonna say something your just gonna repeat it back? ok np "AoC sux" is not really a sentence, it kind of an attitude developed by a few people who either: - cant run AoC because they have a useless PC and blame it on everybody else -cant afford $19 / month for pleasure or are too greedy to do so -ex Fancom employees, who actually released AoC full of bugs, got fired and now looking for revenge. -WxW fanboys who feel the urge to demote any other MMO on the market as soon as they think its a threat to their little bubble. -power levelers who hate the anti power leveling nature of AoC preventing them from making any money all others, who sincerly didnt like AoC will state a logical and specific reason why they didnt like it, it could be as simple as: "its not my type of mmo" and they will never give stupid reasons like: "AoC failed at launch" , "AoC have less subs than WoW" and "Funcom's CFO resigned"... your turn, you can go ahead and repeat what i just said. |
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3/12/09 1:27:02 PM#62
Originally posted by Timoshenko
No. The only thing sure is that 3 times more of the X-fire users play WAR than AoC. With the same stitistics you could say that WAR is 20 times as big as EQ2 and that Guildwars is a few times bigger than WAR. You could maybe use X-fire to see how a game is doing on a month to month basic but even that is doubtful, both because there are other programs that do the same thing better like Ventrilo and also because a Voice over is better in a game like Guildwars than EQ2. AoC is BTW slowly rising while WAR is slowly falling but that doesn't prove anything either. I believe WAR at the moment have some more players than AoC but I doubt it is 3 times as many, maybe double as most. But X-fire alone is not worth much and anyways which game that failed most will be determined when both are closed down and you count how much money the companies made of them. Could still be any of them. |
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3/12/09 1:31:15 PM#63
To base anything on XFire numbers in bound to be incorrect. XFire is useless as a statistical tool due to it being biased. How many adults do you think run this thing vs how many kids/teens run it? How many powergamers compared to casuals? WAR is more of a teen game while AoC is/was focused on the mature crowd. XFire is, and will always be useless. Only good thing with XFire is to keep a tab on your own playtime. Everything else is guesstimates. The XFire discussion been beat to death multiple times around here anyway. Let this dead horse rest in peace already. Besides, neither game have failed, they only had unrealistic goals when it came to subscriber numbers. If they fail, they close them down and I haven't seen that happen with either of them. Just trolls/fanboys duking it out as usual. Even the op is a troll of sorts, dualtrolling both games heh... |
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S1GNAL
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 1/01/07
If anything is assumed to be other than bullshit, theres something wrong with the perspective. |
3/12/09 1:35:51 PM#64
X-fire is an indication on the server population and subscription numbers ratio. It should not be viewed as the only truth, but also not be completely ignored. Both Warhammer and AoC was a failure. But AoC really messed up big time, even when FC had beta testers telling them what would go wrong. FC decided to not listen.. the history repeats itself for FC.
It is sad that MMO companies does not even know what it takes to make a successful MMO in these times. There are a few people who knows, and can point in the right direction.. However arrogance took over in the Funcom headquarter.
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3/12/09 1:38:52 PM#65
Without reading everything in between this is my take on that topic line alone.. Mythic with DAoC had a relatively huge hit as far as a RvR based game goes. Even I loved DAoC for years... Funcom with AO... even people who never played AO talk about the crap launch and etc as if they were there. So both companies release a new MMO... they both have similar opening sales... opening subscriber numbers... and probably end up with similar amounts of subs at the end. The point if you want to pretend there is one... Is that one company had succeeded previously and another had "epic fail". Now if they both end up with pretty much the same result with a new game.. isn't the "epic fail" company actually doing better? I mean in some form of logic... you expected AoC to fail just as much as AO had. Yet instead it fails just as much as WAR did... So I guess these posts confuse me for a few reasons: 1) Pretty much what I stated... Funcom failing = expected... WAR being crap not so much. 2) Why does it matter? I don't own Funcom stock.. I don't own EA stock. As a game player I would want them BOTH to succeed... even if I don't play either. Successful games encourage people to invest in games being developed.. which actually eventually leads to people doing different things instead of clones. Why are you so caught up in want one to fail more? To make investors not want to invest and games to become more of a clone factory than they are already. |
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3/12/09 1:40:11 PM#66
Originally posted by clearSam
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I'm actually thinking about giving WAR another shot. My friend went back there and he said it's improved a lot. I don't think I will bother with Age of Conan anymore. Once my beta time runs out, I'll stop giving them money. AoC had a lot of potential but somehow Funcom failed. The game will never be as big as everyone hoped and I for one don't want to play some 75k niche game with small zones and instances. I want big epic battles that WAR hopefully can deliver. |
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3/12/09 5:11:14 PM#68
Originally posted by Naranar Your turn !
honestly, you convinced me that you are special, i dont know what you want me to tel you, you dont trust me, you dont trust online sites, and you are obsessed that "AoC sux" and you clearly cant be even a little bit creative. unfortunately, this is not a forum for kids with "special needs". and keeping posting stuff like this will cause this thread to be claused because this would be considered as thread hijacking. so, never mind whatever i told you plz. |
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3/12/09 5:27:00 PM#69
Originally posted by maskedweasel
Long story short - Xfire does show a general statistical population correlation and can be used to determine game population on average. You are right - Xfire can show trends. However, the OP's major statistical fallacy us that he took one look at the data and drew conclusions from it. To be statistically significant, you would have to look at the data a lot and on a constant and consistent basis. The other major issue is that there are way too many variables out there to draw any major conclusions from the data. Sure, both WAR and AOC are having population issues. We do not need X-fire or any data to prove that. The problem with looking at X-fire stats in a limited time frame is that too many things could happen to explain a decrease or increase in the playerbase. For example, WAR just launched two of the most iconic classes in the universe. That is automatically going to increase their numbers. However, will they stay - that is the question. You can also look at other issues. What is there is a major ice storm through the majority of the country? That could explain the drop. What if the servers were out for days due to a massive bug? What if the company offered a "come back and try" promotion? The biggest thing one would have to look at right now is ALL major MMO's to see trends. With the economic situation and people watching their money, we might see an across the board increase or decrease in sub numbers. Further, Darkfall "launched" recently and (in my opinion) it will appeal to AOC fans more than WAR because, due to the content of AOC and rating, the older gamer is more likely to play it and more likely to leave and try Darkfall. There is so much more than what X-Fire can show. I agree it can show trends BUT the issue is attemtpting to draw specfic conclusions from that one set of data. The other issue is the OP is taking a quantifiable variable (time played in X-Fire) and trying to conclude a quality variable (failure). The two do not relate at all and one does not prove the other or vice versa. Failure is different for everyone and outside of closing the game, it is hard to quantify failure. It is a faulty comparison from which to draw such a definitive conclusion. |
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3/12/09 5:31:04 PM#70
Never played WAR so i dont know which sucked the most but for AOC..........pretty sucky |
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3/12/09 5:33:43 PM#71
Originally posted by templarga
Long story short - Xfire does show a general statistical population correlation and can be used to determine game population on average. You are right - Xfire can show trends. However, the OP's major statistical fallacy us that he took one look at the data and drew conclusions from it. To be statistically significant, you would have to look at the data a lot and on a constant and consistent basis. The other major issue is that there are way too many variables out there to draw any major conclusions from the data. Sure, both WAR and AOC are having population issues. We do not need X-fire or any data to prove that. The problem with looking at X-fire stats in a limited time frame is that too many things could happen to explain a decrease or increase in the playerbase.
Part of the problem is we don't know how many Xfire players were in AoC as compared to WAR. You cannot compare two different and undocumented data pools and draw conclusions let alone compare them. Far as I remember you would have to have a definition of each pool.. aka how many people there were. Then you could compare relatively how many people stayed/left or came back to both games. Even if the Xfire user size was different you could have a relative percentage. In the end it would still be just that.. Xfire users. So then the question is.. if you took all the people who don't use Xfire from both games how do they compare. For example if you take the OP and the premise made based on Xfire. What if non Xfire users (who are a much larger data size) show the exact opposite... That's the problem with these things and honestly.. why would any game player want one to fail more than the other. Suggests motive... or agenda. Neither of which fit a "game player". |
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3/12/09 6:20:16 PM#72
Originally posted by clearSam
I dont trust you?All the point of this discussion is I want a real proof that saying the OP is mistaken/lying because you are saying AoC is growing and Warhammer bleeding. I dont trust online sites?Who says that? I say if you want say such things like someone is lying you must have a real proof like statement from EA/Mythic or FunCom you didnt answered me any of those all you did showed me Warhammer merges servers and no sign where it says Age of conan is growing in subscribtions or warhammer is bleeding so i can only assume you is the one who is lying here. Oh I'm obsessed with AoC sux well thats great where did you found out this time. Seriously until you tell me a official statement that WAR is bleeding and AoC is growing there is no point posting again yet you do and blame for beign special... what a irony indeed eh? So to summarize it until you answer my questions in case you forgotten them let me quote you "WaR is bleeding subs, while AoC is gaining subs" that you can support by a official statement not just some website that just said how they think things are do not simply respond this and keep it so okay?
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3/12/09 8:25:26 PM#73
There is no doubt AOC is still losing customers. Funcom already said that revenues will be down 25% this quarter compared to last. Seeing as AOC is by far the biggest source of AOC revenues, it's pretty easy to put 2 and 2 together. My guess is they are never going to do the free trial. It will cost a huge amount to pay for the bandwidth. It's like Dx10, they have basically stopped working on that since they know it won't make a difference for subscriber numbers. There goal now is to keep the players they have until they launch their next MMORPG. As far as Warhammer.. Mythic gave numbers as of Dec 31st.. and they were significantly lower than the numbers they gave for October. Given the fact that there was a drastic decrease between october and december (given by mythic), there is no reason to believe that Warhammers numbers magically stabilized on Dec 31st. The Jan 31st 'announcement' was not met well by players who were expecting a lot more from the upcoming expansion. |
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3/12/09 8:38:45 PM#74
having played both recently(currently playing war) i would say war is doing pretty well. seems to me they screwed themselves early on with the insane amount of servers they had but now they have consolidated most of em and the pop seems great.
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sidfu
Advanced Member
Joined: 6/19/05
the 2 games that the companies ruined that ive played are star wars and mabagoni and mobagoni |
3/12/09 9:34:10 PM#75
Originally posted by steven1966
actualy your info on aoc is wrong. they still doing the dx10 and the number of players is steady to slight increase as they add more content they also have a expansion planned. since that new director for the game took over it has improved alot.
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3/12/09 9:40:46 PM#76
I don't think you can say about any MMO whether it has failed or not until population numbers have remained consistent for years. When MMOs no longer get any new players coming in. Plenty of MMOs have turnarounds. Relatively, for an MMO, both WAR and AoC are still in their infancy - though the latter doesn't seem all that safe from an early childhood death. WAR, at least, seems very likely to stay around for some time to come. |
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3/12/09 11:23:19 PM#77
Actually, by FC stating that they are retaining(retention) more of their current customers, they are infact indicating that AOC is slowing the actual decline(or sub cancellations) making the AOC playerbase more stable. This statement has nothing to do with the playerbase increasing what so ever. Just to sum it up from Funcom's Q409 presentation, AOC is not currently increasing subs but has infact slowed down and maybe even stopped the bleeding off of player subs and hopefully in the near future they will launch their "Win Back" program to actually ADD to their playerbase. |
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3/12/09 11:40:37 PM#78
Originally posted by Vespers
Look, Xfire was the reference for saying AoC lost many players when play hours was decreasing up to December. Since december play hours in a regular weekday have increased from 3500 hours to about 5500 hours. That is about a +60% increase. Same to number of Xfire gamers, it increased from 900 to 1350 in a weekday which is like +50%. So regardless of how you look on it there are more people playing AOC now by the month based on the consensus of the standard that was set with regards to Xfire before December. :/ just my 2 cents. And, yes we players also see many new and old faces back in AoC. I personally think population is growing. Not crazy fast like some want to say, but it is definitely growing. |
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3/12/09 11:58:59 PM#79
No offense to you because I truely believe that you perceive there to be an influx of new players. However, just because you are seeing more new players doesnt mean that there arent old players who are leaving the game. You have a perception that the game is increasing, the official quarterly report states differently. Between your perception and the official stats from Funcom's Quarterly Report, I think that I am going with the quarterly report as to which is more accurate. Again, im not trying to say pick a fight with you rather im just going with the official imformation from the actual company and not a player's speculation or Xrossfire's unofficial numbers. Now, with that said, I know FC to tweak it's reports to make a prettier picture that it actually is, so if you can get your hands on some solid facts stating, without a doubt, that AOC is currently increasing in subs, instead of what is stated in their report then I will concede this point to you. |
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3/13/09 12:35:57 AM#80
Originally posted by Vespers
Haha, well more or less does not mean much to me as long as I get more and more players to play with, and I really do on the two servers I play. Population have increased a lot. I think this link forums.ageofconan.com/forumdisplay.php describes pretty well whats going on right now. Newcomer forum is full as ever now and I am hardly pressed finding anyone at all unhappy with the game upon return. That is a very good sign With regards to the Quarterly report I just want to say one thing that I have said before. 6 month subs for those 700 000 people starting up AoC in Mai and June ran out in December. Let's say 10% of the people signing up in June pressed the 6 months sub option for 14 $. 10% of 700 000 is 70 000 people. 70 000 * 14$ * 3 months = 3 Mill $. Lets say 75% of these players quit the game at one point. 75% of 3 Mill $ is 2.25 Mill $. This means FC got 2.25 Mill from subs not playing the game in Q4 2008. In other words even if number of active gamers was the same in Q4 2008 and Q1 2009, FC would make 2.25 Mill less. So, your logic has some shortcomings. FC expect to make about 1.5 Mill less in Q1 2009 compared to Q42008 pr their financial guiding so I think even their numbers revenuewise spells a some population increase. Not to piss you off that is, but you have to realize that the 6 month subs of players that quit from the start up population play a major role. Once you have realized that it is easier to see that even revenue show a population increase. |
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