I'm posting this in this forum because I've seen this term tossed around here more than anywhere else.  First, a bit of background on what's popularly referred to as "Stockholm Syndrome."

It's a psychodynamic concept better known as "identification with the aggressor."  It just so happens that one Psychiatrist made a comment about victims of a bank robbery in Stockholm when they seemed to display signs of this defense mechanism.

So, what is it?  Well, the idea is that people may be inclined to identify with (defend, or side with) someone that is abusive of them, if that identification seems to meet some important need.  In the Stockholm incident, the need was survival.

The idea goes like this: if someone holds a gun to your head and says, "I think you're stupid, do you agree?"  If you agree, in the hope of not aggravating the person with the gun, you're identifying with the aggressor.  This is a very obvious and unlikely example though.

More commonly this is seen in chronically abusive relationships.  It looks like this:  a person is made to feel dependent upon an abusive individual for important social/emotional needs.  Typically people are abused in some way, and then manipulated into thinking they deserve it.  They also tend to believe that no one else would be willing to put up with them because they are so obviously deserving of abusive treatment.  This of course is a lie, but it is one that is powerfully reinforced over and over again via words and actions. 

The result is a victimized individual who tries (unsuccessfully) to appease the abuser in an attempt to avoid things such as further abuse, rejection or abandonment.  The attempts are unsuccessful because the victimized individual really is not deserving of the abuse, and is in no way actually the cause of it.  The aggressor is solely responsible for the abuse, but this reality is carefully concealed by deception, isolation and manipulation.

At times, even when authorities or helping professionals try to intervene, this is resisted by victims.  Why?  They have in some cases truly come to believe that they are the cause of the abuse and that the aggressor is being unfairly criticized.  They also may feel worthless and believe that if the abuser is taken away, they will have no one...ever; and this is their darkest fantasy--one that is carefully nutured by the aggressor.

So, are MMO gamers vulnerable to this?  I think that's something that the only the reader can decide for him or herself.  Clearly there is no threat of violence, and survival needs don't seem to be an issue.

However, what about social/emotional needs?  How dependent do some people become on MMOs and their communities to get their social and emotional needs met?  Could someone become so dependent on an MMO for these needs to be met that they would be willing to tolerate various forms of psychological or financial abuse?  Would they blame themselves or other gamers for this abusive treatment?  Would they go so far as to defend a service provider that could be described as abusive of its community? 

Well, like I said, I think that's something the reader needs to answer him or herself.  I do think it's worth reflecting on though. 

I've been saying for a long time that alot of SWG players are like battered housewives. A perfect example is the TCG loot cards where some announcement is made about an expansion - forums errupt in anger, then a Friday Feature shoving it in thier faces with capital letters and mentioning loot twice in the thread title. Then an hour or two later a worthless producer note with a picture of a new house and they worship the devs like gods.

I will never understand people like that who continue to take abuse and pay for such a sub-par product/service.

Battered Gamers Syndrome

No I think its closer to this. http://changingminds.org/disciplines/change_management/kubler_ross/kubler_ross.htm

Read the part about getting stuck. I think it would have been much better for SOE to just pull the plugg, it would have been better for the players and the companys reputation.

So what is the term for those that cant let go of something they  "supposedly" no longer care about? To the point that it is a daily labor that continues for years.

Since the NGE I have taken several spells away from these forums cause the daily activities get old after a while. The last being this past football season. I think I was around 2 or 3 times in a 4 month span.

Every time I am away from forums, concentrating on something else, I know I will return to the same folks carrying on  in this "vet forum".

It is rather entertaining to watch you call out those folks that are playing, while folks here sit without a game and complain. For SOE "mistreating" them, they seem to be the ones gaming...not the "vets".

As far as SOE...maybe they do have the present SWG players under a mystical spell. I dont know since I have never been a die hard for any version of SWG. I know that when push comes to shove, the family has been happy for most part with EQ and EQ2 since we started gaming with SOE in 01. The Legends server would probably be my biggest gripe the past 8 yrs. The rest was a bunch of good times with online friends, jamming out tons of content.

To me that is all that matters....not some folks crying that they cant be Uncle Owen. Quite frankly I dont care about that style of gaming to begin with, so seeing SOE not supporting it doesnt bother me at all. Matter of fact I am encouraged that they wont waste another AAA IP for a sandbox game, and their niche market.

SOE should of been nicer about it when they implemented the NGE change....but hey...it was over 3 years ago. As has been said many times....get over it. Find another game and enjoy. SHould be what this gaming site is about....folks talking about what they are doing in their game. Not crying for 3 yrs, or making incorrect predictions reguarly that SWG is going to close.

Anyways arc I luv the thread in response to the other thread...which is basically "Um we arent the crazy ones."

Yes Arc...you are regardless if the other SWG players are as well. So get over it already. This forum is a broken record of whining tinkerbells giving out the same ole " Boo Hoo buckeroo" talk :P

Tell all that stuff to the 40+ guildies of mine  who ended up with 250 or so months of prepaid time after the NGE that SOE refused to refund. And a good many were refused refunds on the ToOW expansion.

Any company that jacks people like that, is not getting away from the fact that they did it.

And nor should they....

Originally posted by Burntvet

Tell all that stuff to the 40+ guildies of mine  who ended up with 250 or so months of prepaid time after the NGE that SOE refused to refund. And a good many were refused refunds on the ToOW expansion.

Any company that jacks people like that, is not getting away from the fact that they did it.

And nor should they....

Well, I happen to agree with this.  At the same time I think it's important to highlight that this thread really isn't about the NGE.  It isn't mentioned anywhere, until someone reacts with insults to an imagined NGE complaint, which this thread clearly isn't.  There's no complaining, crying or any of the other things someone appears to have invented.  The insults are of course inappropriate, and they seem  to be made in response to something that was never in fact posted.  Another one of those arguments with an imaginary enemy I guess.  Seems to be a lot of that going around lately for some reason.

In actual fact, the thread is a commentary on a term that happens to get tossed around on this particular forum quite a bit.  I thought people might benefit from an accurate definition and some background on the term, and that this might serve as something people could contemplate as a possible phenomenon in MMO games.  I still think it's worth reflecting on.

I happen to think lots of social/emotional dynamics are worth reflecting on as they relate to MMOs, but I'll save those discussions for other threads ^_^.

Also, I happen to enjoy discussing MMOs and social phenomena with fellow gamers.  If people don't enjoy that kind of discussion, I see no reason for them to feel compelled to participate or openly insult those who do.

It could very well be but i think its a case of people that really like the game, and wan't people to play it with.

Originally posted by Mathos

It could very well be but i think its a case of people that really like the game, and wan't people to play it with.

Good point, and I think that scenario is common, healthy, and quite understandable too.  My friends who continue to play SWG would fall into this category I think.  They want to have a StarWars MMO  and like to have other people to play it with; but they don't defend questionable actions on the part of the service provider, don't get sucked into potential money pits like the loot gamble, and don't criticize people who have decided to leave the game for very understandable reasons.  They call a spade a spade and don't blame themselves or other gamers for SOE screw-ups.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Mathos

It could very well be but i think its a case of people that really like the game, and wan't people to play it with.

 

Good point, and I think that scenario is common, healthy, and quite understandable too.  My friends who continue to play SWG would fall into this category I think.  They want to have a StarWars MMO  and like to have other people to play it with; but they don't defend questionable actions on the part of the service provider, don't get sucked into potential money pits like the loot gamble, and don't criticize people who have decided to leave the game for very understandable reasons.  They call a spade a spade and don't blame themselves or other gamers for SOE screw-ups.

very true the only time i get ignored by the fans if when i use hard facts that can't be disputed, but i stopped that as I felt i was talking to my self on a forum lol

LOL Stockholm Syndrome, that has BadgerSmaker written aaallllllllllll over it. If you know what has happened to him in the past, you'd know what I mean. :)

Originally posted by Mathos

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Mathos

It could very well be but i think its a case of people that really like the game, and wan't people to play it with.

 

Good point, and I think that scenario is common, healthy, and quite understandable too.  My friends who continue to play SWG would fall into this category I think.  They want to have a StarWars MMO  and like to have other people to play it with; but they don't defend questionable actions on the part of the service provider, don't get sucked into potential money pits like the loot gamble, and don't criticize people who have decided to leave the game for very understandable reasons.  They call a spade a spade and don't blame themselves or other gamers for SOE screw-ups.

very true the only time i get ignored by the fans if when i use hard facts that can't be disputed, but i stopped that as I felt i was talking to my self on a forum lol

Lol I know what that feels like.  Also, fyi, I always read your stuff.  You have a good sense of humour and a nice way of consicely cutting through the crap.

Stokholm syndrome for gamers = Nerfed Gamers Experience (or NGE for short).

I just finished responding to a post in another thread that accuses players of  bringing all the problems associated with SWG on themselves by their selfishness and immaturity--fascinating.  In the eyes of the other poster, it seems that players are solely responsible for the problems they brought on themselves, and they did absolutely nothing to try to help the game improve--amazing.

I guess all the bugs, issues, revamps, and unfulfilled promises had nothing to do with the game's problems.  I guess all the beta testing, testing on TC, petitions, bug reports, bug threads and emails to SOE weren't an attempt to help the game--incredible.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

I just finished responding to a post in another thread that accuses players of  bringing all the problems associated with SWG on themselves by their selfishness and immaturity--fascinating.  In the eyes of the other poster, it seems that players are solely responsible for the problems they brought on themselves, and they did absolutely nothing to try to help the game improve--amazing.

I guess all the bugs, issues, revamps, and unfulfilled promises had nothing to do with the game's problems.  I guess all the beta testing, testing on TC, petitions, bug reports, bug threads and emails to SOE weren't an attempt to help the game--incredible.

actually and this is in response to the second paragraph cause I dont care about blame.   At the time of the fabled precu era sony was trying very hard to get beta testers onto the test servers.    Like many released games the beta testing population is often a challenge.  I remember clearly and not even thinking about test servers myself hearing in an announcment for an update of some sort (can't remember when I actualy didn't read forums that much and actualy amazingly dont this one is an enigma which is probably why I bother) that they were releasing it in beta state due to lack of beta testers and to prepare for a lot of patches due to the low beta population and a plea put out by devs to please beta test.   I remember it clearly cause I had not bothered to beta test up to that point and loaded the test server from then on in from time-to-time just to try to help a bit.   However you do have to remember that the beta testing population for all games comes from within the player base and if no one can be bothered to test then they can only rely on internal testing of their own and will miss things that occur as larger populations start to draw on the new stuff.    Its the nature of the beast.   Anyhow take that for what its worth I do clearly remember sony posting on their announcment forums for a call for more beta testers and a release of an untested bunch of stuff very early on in the game as a result of lack of beta testers.   Once it goes to live a whole new can of worms opens as devs start working on something else and have then to try to fit time on to fix stuff they are attempting to test and deal with rants and complains from live server gamers angry that the material was not properly beta tested. 

p.s. yeah the post has nothing to do with stockholm syndrome but neither does yours.   

Originally posted by Burntvet

Tell all that stuff to the 40+ guildies of mine  who ended up with 250 or so months of prepaid time after the NGE that SOE refused to refund. And a good many were refused refunds on the ToOW expansion.

Any company that jacks people like that, is not getting away from the fact that they did it.

And nor should they....

LOL yer friends are frikking idiots if they spent 250 months into the future of an online game of anytype that can change and evolve under the eula at any minute, Jeezus doesnt anyone read the eulas anymore, online gameplay may change without notice is on every godamn mmo out lol, frikking chumpsz.

Originally posted by boognish75

Originally posted by Burntvet

Tell all that stuff to the 40+ guildies of mine  who ended up with 250 or so months of prepaid time after the NGE that SOE refused to refund. And a good many were refused refunds on the ToOW expansion.

Any company that jacks people like that, is not getting away from the fact that they did it.

And nor should they....

 

LOL yer friends are frikking idiots if they spent 250 months into the future of an online game of anytype that can change and evolve under the eula at any minute, Jeezus doesnt anyone read the eulas anymore, online gameplay may change without notice is on every godamn mmo out lol, frikking chumpsz.

It's for this reason that many of my friends never purchase more than one month's subscription time.  With the industry as it is today, you simply don't know what you're going to get even in two months time.  Some MMO companies continue to post hype for new features that they may never deliver, that may never work, or that may change or even be removed shortly after implementation.

For example, I was getting some waypoints for a dungeon in a particular game.  Under the waypoints and description was an announcement from a developer about temporarily removing a feature so that it could be upgraded.  The feature still hasn't been restored, and this was in 2004.  Anyone who paid subscription money based on the promise to upgrade and restore this feature was robbed.

Like I've mentioned in other posts, this practice seems to take place in MMOs partly because of regulatory lag.  Technology has vastly outpaced contract and property laws.  As a result, some companies can and apparently will do nearly anything to their games and customers if they think it will cause a short-term spike in quarterly revenue--never mind the player or long-term organizational success.

That's certainly an important issue for MMO's and somewhat relevant to the thread I think.  The relevance is that sometimes companies will do things that knowingly impact current subscribers negatively.  Things take a psychological twist, however, if the company then assigns blame to the players for these tactics, and some players accept it and pass it along to fellow gamers.

An example would be something like this:

Player: "Why did they just delete all my progress, remove my profession, break the combat system, disable chat and render my crafting buisness obsolete?"

Service provider's spokesperson: "Because you're selfish and immature, and we need to save the game from people like you."

Player who identifies with aggressor: "Oh yeah, wow I really brought this on myself, and so did all you other selfish, demanding, immature gamers.  Shame on you.  We need to get behind the service provider, show some loyalty and make this thing work!"

Originally posted by boognish75

Originally posted by Burntvet

Tell all that stuff to the 40+ guildies of mine  who ended up with 250 or so months of prepaid time after the NGE that SOE refused to refund. And a good many were refused refunds on the ToOW expansion.

Any company that jacks people like that, is not getting away from the fact that they did it.

And nor should they....

 

LOL yer friends are frikking idiots if they spent 250 months into the future of an online game of anytype that can change and evolve under the eula at any minute, Jeezus doesnt anyone read the eulas anymore, online gameplay may change without notice is on every godamn mmo out lol, frikking chumpsz.

That part of the EULA only refers to the ESRB rating.

EULA's do not hold much legal weight anyway.

Originally posted by ummax

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

I just finished responding to a post in another thread that accuses players of  bringing all the problems associated with SWG on themselves by their selfishness and immaturity--fascinating.  In the eyes of the other poster, it seems that players are solely responsible for the problems they brought on themselves, and they did absolutely nothing to try to help the game improve--amazing.

I guess all the bugs, issues, revamps, and unfulfilled promises had nothing to do with the game's problems.  I guess all the beta testing, testing on TC, petitions, bug reports, bug threads and emails to SOE weren't an attempt to help the game--incredible.

 

actually and this is in response to the second paragraph cause I dont care about blame.   At the time of the fabled precu era sony was trying very hard to get beta testers onto the test servers.    Like many released games the beta testing population is often a challenge.  I remember clearly and not even thinking about test servers myself hearing in an announcment for an update of some sort (can't remember when I actualy didn't read forums that much and actualy amazingly dont this one is an enigma which is probably why I bother) that they were releasing it in beta state due to lack of beta testers and to prepare for a lot of patches due to the low beta population and a plea put out by devs to please beta test.   I remember it clearly cause I had not bothered to beta test up to that point and loaded the test server from then on in from time-to-time just to try to help a bit.   However you do have to remember that the beta testing population for all games comes from within the player base and if no one can be bothered to test then they can only rely on internal testing of their own and will miss things that occur as larger populations start to draw on the new stuff.    Its the nature of the beast.   Anyhow take that for what its worth I do clearly remember sony posting on their announcment forums for a call for more beta testers and a release of an untested bunch of stuff very early on in the game as a result of lack of beta testers.   Once it goes to live a whole new can of worms opens as devs start working on something else and have then to try to fit time on to fix stuff they are attempting to test and deal with rants and complains from live server gamers angry that the material was not properly beta tested. 

 

p.s. yeah the post has nothing to do with stockholm syndrome but neither does yours.   

Regarding the comment, "I do clearly remember sony posting on their announcment forums for a call for more beta testers and a release of an untested bunch of stuff very early on in the game as a result of lack of beta testers," a number of questions come to mind:

Are the game's problems really a result of players failing to step up and participate in beta testing?   Isn't that an example of blaming players for the poor quality of the game they were given?  Doesn't that absolve Sony of responsibility for the poor state of the game at release?   What's going on here?  Why?

Originally posted by ummax

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

I just finished responding to a post in another thread that accuses players of  bringing all the problems associated with SWG on themselves by their selfishness and immaturity--fascinating.  In the eyes of the other poster, it seems that players are solely responsible for the problems they brought on themselves, and they did absolutely nothing to try to help the game improve--amazing.

I guess all the bugs, issues, revamps, and unfulfilled promises had nothing to do with the game's problems.  I guess all the beta testing, testing on TC, petitions, bug reports, bug threads and emails to SOE weren't an attempt to help the game--incredible.

 

actually and this is in response to the second paragraph cause I dont care about blame.   At the time of the fabled precu era sony was trying very hard to get beta testers onto the test servers.    Like many released games the beta testing population is often a challenge.  I remember clearly and not even thinking about test servers myself hearing in an announcment for an update of some sort (can't remember when I actualy didn't read forums that much and actualy amazingly dont this one is an enigma which is probably why I bother) that they were releasing it in beta state due to lack of beta testers and to prepare for a lot of patches due to the low beta population and a plea put out by devs to please beta test.   I remember it clearly cause I had not bothered to beta test up to that point and loaded the test server from then on in from time-to-time just to try to help a bit.   However you do have to remember that the beta testing population for all games comes from within the player base and if no one can be bothered to test then they can only rely on internal testing of their own and will miss things that occur as larger populations start to draw on the new stuff.    Its the nature of the beast.   Anyhow take that for what its worth I do clearly remember sony posting on their announcment forums for a call for more beta testers and a release of an untested bunch of stuff very early on in the game as a result of lack of beta testers.   Once it goes to live a whole new can of worms opens as devs start working on something else and have then to try to fit time on to fix stuff they are attempting to test and deal with rants and complains from live server gamers angry that the material was not properly beta tested. 

 

p.s. yeah the post has nothing to do with stockholm syndrome but neither does yours.   

They had no shortage of beta testers.  I was one of them.  Koster himself admitted that they rushed the game to live before it was ready and it was due to marketing influences not due to the lack of testing.