They said they'd possibly make you see your avatar in the inventory/equip window or character stat page (pretty standard mmo thing there) - and of course reflections.

Anyway it's not about what you are wearing but what you do with it.. remember that your big fancy pretty armor you have on.. if you get killed, someone else can walk away with it (free for all pvp with full looting) - so you might not really want to wear such a thing anyway.. so as to not tempt the thieves, so to speak

 On another note, I wonder how they will cater to players who enjoy gear appearance and such. If all your screen shows is your hands and your weapon...

I guess your friends can screenshot ya.

Originally posted by randomt

Anyone who plays much fps shouldn't have an issue with it. As far as an immersive 'free world' goes, I think it adds a lot more depth than having a camera floating above you, where you can look 360 degrees without actually moving your character..

Now if you want to see that guy sneaking up on you, you better actually turn around, or the first you'll notice of him might be his blade sticking out of your chest!

 

Almost every FPS game I have played also had 3rd person view! 

I don't see a problem why you can't have a close up 3rd person view with locked camera? 

It would still be immersive, people can still sneak up on you and you can see and enjoy your character as well.

With current MMO's you can rotate your camera too easy in 3rd person view and with that I agree that it kills PVP immersion a bit.

But when the 3rd person camera is fixed and locked. I don't see the reason to have 1st person view only.

Just my 2cents

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Originally posted by Guillermo197

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Originally posted by randomt

Anyone who plays much fps shouldn't have an issue with it. As far as an immersive 'free world' goes, I think it adds a lot more depth than having a camera floating above you, where you can look 360 degrees without actually moving your character..
Now if you want to see that guy sneaking up on you, you better actually turn around, or the first you'll notice of him might be his blade sticking out of your chest!
 

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Almost every FPS game I have played also had 3rd person view! 
I don't see a problem why you can't have a close up 3rd person view with locked camera? 
It would still be immersive, people can still sneak up on you and you can see and enjoy your character as well.
With current MMO's you can rotate your camera too easy in 3rd person view and with that I agree that it kills PVP immersion a bit.
But when the 3rd person camera is fixed and locked. I don't see the reason to have 1st person view only.
Just my 2cents

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I meant fps's like quake or halflife or the battlefield series or the call of duty series.. you play it in first person view, and you have to turn and look around on your own... so if you are used to playing those kinds of games, keeping track of your surroundings in MO will be pretty intuitive..

As for 3rd person view.. basically any floating camera gives you a bigger field of view than your eyes can account for, and that's not what they want.

Of course we won't know until we try it how well that works for us individually, but I am looking forward to it, kind of like an mmofps with a fantasy setting, in a free for all twitch combat based pvp open sandbox world.. it will be a nice change from the mass-market wow like mmo's that have been coming out over and over lately.. something new and fresh.

Well probably something like Oblivion in an mmo format mostly likely.. we'll see

Actually first person is part of what attracts me to it. I love immursion and that's often lost in 3rd person where you feel more like an observer then in the ruins, or in the midst of the swamp. Also in first person it's easier to get a sense of scale because you tend to see more of the sky.

While I do think FPV is the most immersive viewpoint I just dislike playing games in FPV and prefer TPV.

Originally posted by Arioc

Actually first person is part of what attracts me to it. I love immursion and that's often lost in 3rd person where you feel more like an observer then in the ruins, or in the midst of the swamp. Also in first person it's easier to get a sense of scale because you tend to see more of the sky.

     1st person is more immersive but 3rd person is more life preserving!

first person is part of what attracts me to this game.

i'm thinking about reinstalling oblivion since i don't have fallout3 lol

But seriously, i think a lot of people want a game where you're brain is more important than stats and numbers.perhaps first person is the best way to implement difficult yet rewarding gameplay

and besides, in the new trailer he looks down at water and sees his reflection.

i myself enjoy FPS's and MMOs, the two games that got me hooked years ago were counterstrike and asheron's call.

I'm not sure how I feel about it right now. While I like first person shooters. I don't spend hours a day playing them. Mmorpgs I can spend 4-6 hours on weekends playing, and not sure if I like being in first person that long. I never feel immersed in my fps games like I do in my mmorpgs.

I admit I am a little vain in the fact that I like looking at how my avatar looks like while playing.

I will definately give this game a go though, and hopefully won't mind the first person view.

Originally posted by isolor

I'm not sure how I feel about it right now. While I like first person shooters. I don't spend hours a day playing them. Mmorpgs I can spend 4-6 hours on weekends playing, and not sure if I like being in first person that long. I never feel immersed in my fps games like I do in my mmorpgs.

I admit I am a little vain in the fact that I like looking at how my avatar looks like while playing.

I will definately give this game a go though, and hopefully won't mind the first person view.

FPS aren't really designed to immerse the player into an atmosphere like MMOs should do. they are MMO role playing games after all.

have you tried Fallout3? I haven't had the pleasure of that, but i hear its a pretty good game.

Originally posted by fansede

 On another note, I wonder how they will cater to players who enjoy gear appearance and such. If all your screen shows is your hands and your weapon...

I guess your friends can screenshot ya.

They are going to put full length mirrors in game at city hubs.

I just saw the gameplay footage through a link in the Darkfall forums (go figure), I have to say the FPS view seems like it going to actually work, and well. I was reminded of the game King's Field as I watched it, now I have to say I am very interested in applying for a beta spot. The way the hands move gives a real dynamic to the game in the scene where the player prayed, rose from the ground after being knocked from the horse, and made a deathblow on someone else. Sure you may not be able to look at your char from a vanity agnle (who knows though), but perhaps you can look down at yourself by angling the cam, and get a better view of your armor from shoulders to feet like you were the actual player. I wonder if wearing a helmet has some kind of effect on the view as well?

I did have a beef with how the torch was held in the vid though. It was centered in the screen and blocked quite a bit of the view, on top of burning my retinas - was a bit rough just in the trailer. I hope they end up making the model hold it off to the side, so that the ambient light still works and it doesn't crowd the view with the bright torch.

First person view won't ruin the game at all for me.  I can see some people not liking it and I understand how people think their options shoudn't be limited like that but FPS brings a whole new dimension to PvP that you can't get with the typical third person view.  Maybe if the third person view was like Gears of War where is was set at a good angle viewing the world straight on and not seeing so much behind you.  It adds real stealth to the game at least until hacks come into play.

Originally posted by Bambolero

FPV is a range fight affair, like a FPS game.

Melee fighters with the very limited view are at huge disadvantage against rangers/casters.

That`s why you can`t mix MMORPGs with FPS.

I`m not buying the "immersion" excuse the devs gave for not putting a TPV option.

Nobody is that clueless as to alienate a big group of players from their game especially when less restrictions = more  popular game in this day and age.

So it`s probably a technical issue.

Kickazz graphics alla AoC and seamless world don`t mix well, it`s too demanding on your PC so that`s probably why this game is FPV only, to make it playable.

others need to learn from this mistake

I'm looking forward to having an all fpv mmo. The reason is if there is the option of tpv, almost everyone will chose tp because it has obvious advantages, you can see everything to the side of you, above you. also being able to see someone coming at you from behind which can be a major annoyance when trying to sneak up on people.

I must admit to a bit of scepticism towards fpv in an mmorpg in general.

I like the potential it has in possibly increasing immersion, but I don't like to lose the overview that 3rd person view gives. After all, when I look at a monitor I lose all peripheral vision. Not being aware of a monster/hostile player right next to me because of tunnel vision can at least ruin my feel of realism.

Originally posted by Quenranel

Originally posted by isolor

I'm not sure how I feel about it right now. While I like first person shooters. I don't spend hours a day playing them. Mmorpgs I can spend 4-6 hours on weekends playing, and not sure if I like being in first person that long. I never feel immersed in my fps games like I do in my mmorpgs.

I admit I am a little vain in the fact that I like looking at how my avatar looks like while playing.

I will definately give this game a go though, and hopefully won't mind the first person view.

 

FPS aren't really designed to immerse the player into an atmosphere like MMOs should do. they are MMO role playing games after all.

have you tried Fallout3? I haven't had the pleasure of that, but i hear its a pretty good game.

Your right in the aspect that FPS games are not ment to be as immersed as an MMO. But I think the single player rpgs are. I could never play games like Morrowind or Oblivion in FPV for more than an hour. That is my fear. Now if the FPV would actually work like our eyes do in the real world, I would find no problem with it.

I just feel like I'm playing with a box on my head with a slot to see through. I don't feel immersed at all. But in 3rd person I do feel immersed. So this will be tough for me to play,

I have not played Fallout 3, and am not really interested in it. I'm not a big fan of games that have a pause in it so you can aim your shots. I have heard it is a good game though.

i understand the fear of tunnel vision but it didn't seem that bad. hopefully they can improve it and somehow widen the view a bit. i think if someone were to make a FPV with peripheral vision, the actual space you would use to look would be smaller to allow for the blurry edges.

however, FPV will just require you to look around more, think more, and force you to have a better awareness unlike if you are looking at everything 5-10 feet above your character.

so... how bout you buy a good mouse, dont get the mx518 its a pos and will break.

i've never had problems in a fps cause of limited peripheral.

Firstperson view is going to make this game imo. and a awesome mmo will be born that has FPV. darkfall already failed horribly so we're one step closer. might not be this, but bethesda is workin on somethin i hear.

^^^^^good point about the torch i didn't really think about. oblivion did the same thing i think.

The FPV is perfectly implemented in mortal online and I think it is going to work very well. Third person view was unrealistic to begin with and I dont know why more serious MMO's had it incorporated.

I am glad that immersion is important to the developers and that we will be looking through our players eyes.

It also helps in PvP because you have to be wary of your suroundings by looking around more. Which adds excitement and skill. This is going to be an epic MMO in my opinion and I am very much looking forward to more information coming out of the developers.

But to make my point. I LOVE FPV!

Originally posted by Bambolero

FPV is a range fight affair, like a FPS game.

Melee fighters with the very limited view are at huge disadvantage against rangers/casters.

That`s why you can`t mix MMORPGs with FPS.

I`m not buying the "immersion" excuse the devs gave for not putting a TPV option.

Nobody is that clueless as to alienate a big group of players from their game especially when less restrictions = more  popular game in this day and age.

So it`s probably a technical issue.

Kickazz graphics alla AoC and seamless world don`t mix well, it`s too demanding on your PC so that`s probably why this game is FPV only, to make it playable.

Well, not necessarily.

I don't know in particular how the Dreamworld engine (AoC) handles assets and such... But the Unreal 3 engine was re-developed from the ground-up to handle massive streaming worlds inherently. I think this was in response to the number of MMOs using the Unreal 2 engine, retro-fitting a seamless world design into them; and I think it was a smart move. This is do-able *with* the level of detail Unreal Engine 3 is capable of.

Further, the way the Unreal engine handles models is that everything is an instance of a single model. So you load a model... say... a boulder.. into the map via the editor. That boulder will only exist once in memory. Every other copy of it will be an instance, no matter how it's scaled, rotated, etc... This helps the game keep as low a resource footprint as possible. And of course, the engine is only rendering what it has to... so with intelligent use of portals, anti-portals, LoD, and the like, the world can be quite detailed and still perform very well.

Also, I didn't see anything in the MO video that shows them really pushing the engine to its limits, which, for a MMO, is smart. Just because the power is *there* doesn't mean they have to use *everything*. There's a balance between eye-candy and performance.

You can see the trade-off if you look at a game like Bioshock, and then look at Unreal Tournament 3. Bioshock uses far more of the heavy-duty technologies (pixel shaders, etc) because it's a single-player game where the number of detail in view at any one time can be controlled by design. In a FPS, like UT3, though, you'll notice a lighter use of tech and/or very selective use of it. This is to make sure performance is always optimum no matter how many players and other effects are on screen at a time. They'd likely be leaning more toward a UT3 approach to tech usage in MO.

In short, the Unreal 3 engine is very capable of highly detailed streaming worlds.

I think AoC was limited by its own engine architecture.