green : Would you please stop forgiving them just because they are small and independent company? You are encouraging other small and independent companies to be just as bad as Aventurine. Small and independent does NOT mean bad. Why would any business be encouraged to be bad? If they can't make an MMO, they should stick to Tetris.

Yeah I wonder where this all got started from

To tcosdaddict:  too long to keep nested quoting

I understand that WoW thing is a joke.  I quoted it b/c some of the fanatics does use WoW as a way to derail the discussion, which is a shame.  I do not want to finger point them, or they will report me again and again, just b/c I revealed how silly and immature they are.

They are small and indie, yes.  But they do not intend to be working as an Indie, they are making an MMO.  Its like a small company trying to make an airplane.  I can expect the plane to be smaller, but still it must fly and not crash.  Minimum requirements goes whatever the size of the producer, once the producer decides to participate in the supply process.  The wishlist of features is like a product spec.  If the product is changed, they surely have spent hours deliberating internally, and they must have some form of final spec list for their development team.  If they are so busy (which I think is ridiculous), they can replace the wish list of white lies on their site with the internal development spec, or an executive summary.  A simple cut and paste will save them the accusation of indecent business practice.  If they cannot see this, I have very serious doubts about their professional integrity.

There is something called impulse buying.  After I earn a rich year end bonus, I would sometimes hop into a computer shop and buy something for the sake of thinning out my wallet.  The same for browsing online.  The day I feel bored I go to a web and look for interesting products.  I agree that the rule buyers beware still rules, but as an honest producer, I would expect at least minimum integrity in maintaining the product description.  Do not claim you are selling a ship when all you are producing is leaves that floats down a river.  I will drown if I try to cross the ocean on that leave.  I understand I cannot sue them yet, or maybe I can.  But the point is, should I feel disappointed?  Should I blacklist or mark a poor label on this producer?  I tend to, feel inclined to.  If they have all the time to produce so many confusing updates, why not collect them all and update them in one place, and what place is more natural than the product spec on the wishlist?  My view.

Kudos to you for calm discussion, no flames just discussion.  DF forum has already degenerated into barbarious mud slingling or insults hurling.

To Orthedos:

I agree it's getting too long for nested quotes.  Also, kudos to you for not flaming either, lol.

I understand and even agree with what you're saying.  They could have easily collected their most up-to-date list of specs for the game and copy/pasted them on their website.  However, I don't blame them for not taking the time to do that when, for the most part, they have been pulling all-nighters, getting roughly 3 hours of sleep at a time.  The game's stability has to take priority at the moment, but once that happens there will be no excuse for leaving the site as it is.  As far as the wallet thinning goes, I'd be lying if I said I'd never done the same thing.  With that said, I've never spent hours trying to buy a product against network timeouts and a faulty ordering system on a whim.  If I had to deal with that I'd just buy something else, lol.

I'd also like to point out that the buyer beware rule applies especially to MMORPGs at launch.  A lot of MMOs suffer from major issues at launch.  You think Darkfall is bad?  Look at The Chronicles of Spellborn (aka TCoS - hense the name TCoSAddict).  The game was supposed to be released November 27th, 2008, which it was - to about 1% of the people who wanted to play it... in Europe.  The rest had to wait until December 5th because of a lack of hard copies.  December 5th the game was available for download.  It only released to around 9 European countries.  To this day the game is only released to the same countries that got it on November 27th.  On top of that they implemented some ridiculous IP blocking policy where players from outside of those countries can't even make an account!  They even managed to divide up Europe so that countries like the UK, Spain, Poland and others don't have access to the European servers and have to wait for the North America servers to launch, so they can play with people in different time zones.  Acclaim is one of the publishers for the game and they've yet to manage to launch it.  They're actually holding a closed beta for the game... which is already launched.  The closed beta has actually been delayed (without explaination for the first month and a half)  for 3 months.  I'd definitely say that the TCoS release has been far worse than Darkfall's and continues to be.  If nothing else, the devs at Aventurine have made it a point to keep the community in the know via the forums.  There are near daily updates to the announcements section regarding server downtime, sales, and policies regarding hackers/botters/exploiters.  I guess that due to my extreme disappointment with the launch of TCoS(Not a reflection on the game - it's unbelievably fun; it's just being handled poorly by Acclaim) I've become more lenient when the launch doesn't go quite as hoped for.  At the rate things are going Darkfall will be available for purchase before Spellborn, which launched in November.

Oh, by the way, post 100 ^^.

Originally posted by tcosaddict

Originally posted by colonnelli71

I think its a sad day in the MMO world when a game company can operate and treat customers the way Adventuretine has and people think its funny? Or that its acceptable? Very sad. The whole release of this game has been gross and its only getting worse. Well at least people didn't tell me to go back to playing WoW, thats my favorite retort on these forums. As if everyone must have played WoW and of course we must love it because we actually have a bad opinion about another game?!?  How dare you. I don't beat around the bush... Adventuretine and Blizzard can both suck it.

 

Go back to WoW.

Sorry, had to say it, lol.

On a side note, I really don't think Aventurine's treatment of its customers has been all that bad.  They've lied about a lot of features, granted, but they fessed up to them later, before release.  Everyone who bought the game knew, or had the resources made available to them so that they could know, what they were buying.  I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt as they are a small independent company with a game that has such mass appeal that they can't handle the demand.  Their systems haven't been working properly but they've been working as hard as they can to get them operating smoothly.  No one wants the game to succeed more than they do, obviously.  They've just gotten off to a rough start.  I understand you're pissed that you can't get the game this weekend.  My vacation starts saturday.  I was hoping to have a copy by then so I could waste a good chunk of my time on the game.  Unfortunately, they're not selling copies and that seems like the right move considering how much talk of queue times there's been.  To be honest, you're better off waiting until the game is readily available 24/7 for purchase before buying it, anyway.  Then not only will you avoid all the stress of the buying mini-game but chances are it will have a lot of bugs fixed and be a better game overall.

What I'm trying to say, basically, is settle down and relax; you'll get your chance to play if you wait for it.  Oh, and go back to WoW. :P

not that bad, but they lied.  Thats about as much as i could read of your post... man some people are clueless.  Get back to us  after you pull your head out of your own @$$.
 

Originally posted by WOWthatsucks

Originally posted by tcosaddict

Originally posted by colonnelli71

I think its a sad day in the MMO world when a game company can operate and treat customers the way Adventuretine has and people think its funny? Or that its acceptable? Very sad. The whole release of this game has been gross and its only getting worse. Well at least people didn't tell me to go back to playing WoW, thats my favorite retort on these forums. As if everyone must have played WoW and of course we must love it because we actually have a bad opinion about another game?!?  How dare you. I don't beat around the bush... Adventuretine and Blizzard can both suck it.

 

Go back to WoW.

Sorry, had to say it, lol.

On a side note, I really don't think Aventurine's treatment of its customers has been all that bad.  They've lied about a lot of features, granted, but they fessed up to them later, before release.  Everyone who bought the game knew, or had the resources made available to them so that they could know, what they were buying.  I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt as they are a small independent company with a game that has such mass appeal that they can't handle the demand.  Their systems haven't been working properly but they've been working as hard as they can to get them operating smoothly.  No one wants the game to succeed more than they do, obviously.  They've just gotten off to a rough start.  I understand you're pissed that you can't get the game this weekend.  My vacation starts saturday.  I was hoping to have a copy by then so I could waste a good chunk of my time on the game.  Unfortunately, they're not selling copies and that seems like the right move considering how much talk of queue times there's been.  To be honest, you're better off waiting until the game is readily available 24/7 for purchase before buying it, anyway.  Then not only will you avoid all the stress of the buying mini-game but chances are it will have a lot of bugs fixed and be a better game overall.

What I'm trying to say, basically, is settle down and relax; you'll get your chance to play if you wait for it.  Oh, and go back to WoW. :P

not that bad, but they lied.  Thats about as much as i could read of your post... man some people are clueless.  Get back to us  after you pull your head out of your own @$$.
 

Thanks for the well thought out post.  Always nice to read the comments of someone who doesn't manage to read past the first few lines.  Lot of insight in your words.  With people like you on these forums it's hard to believe that most threads manage to turn into flame wars.  If only everyone could take the time like you did, the world would be a better place.

Also - Clueless?  Not quite.  I managed to research the game before considering to buy it.  For example, I can tell you that the name of the company that created it is "Aventurine" not "Adventuritine."
 

Originally posted by colonnelli71

My dumb a$$ has been patiently waiting for 2 weeks to buy this game like so many others. Its bad enough they have this limited sales. Its bad enough these sales are during the normal working time for most people, thus only jobless people or kids home from school can buy it. Its bad enough they have NO SALES during the weekend when its more fair for everyone to have a chance to get a copy. Now im off Friday, Saturday and Sunday...they are not having more copies this Friday and of course the whole weekend?!? You know what Adventuretine...im finally reading the writing on the wall and listening to my gut and avoiding your company like the black plague. Like the title says, suck it. I hope your game company closes up and your all jobless.

Even though DF seems to be a decent game, I have to agree with the OP.

AV is pretty worthless.

Lets hope they sell off the game so we could all actually buy it.

This good game is being held down by a bunch of chimps running AV.

Originally posted by tcosaddict

Originally posted by WOWthatsucks

Originally posted by tcosaddict

Originally posted by colonnelli71

I think its a sad day in the MMO world when a game company can operate and treat customers the way Adventuretine has and people think its funny? Or that its acceptable? Very sad. The whole release of this game has been gross and its only getting worse. Well at least people didn't tell me to go back to playing WoW, thats my favorite retort on these forums. As if everyone must have played WoW and of course we must love it because we actually have a bad opinion about another game?!?  How dare you. I don't beat around the bush... Adventuretine and Blizzard can both suck it.

 

Go back to WoW.

Sorry, had to say it, lol.

On a side note, I really don't think Aventurine's treatment of its customers has been all that bad.  They've lied about a lot of features, granted, but they fessed up to them later, before release.  Everyone who bought the game knew, or had the resources made available to them so that they could know, what they were buying.  I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt as they are a small independent company with a game that has such mass appeal that they can't handle the demand.  Their systems haven't been working properly but they've been working as hard as they can to get them operating smoothly.  No one wants the game to succeed more than they do, obviously.  They've just gotten off to a rough start.  I understand you're pissed that you can't get the game this weekend.  My vacation starts saturday.  I was hoping to have a copy by then so I could waste a good chunk of my time on the game.  Unfortunately, they're not selling copies and that seems like the right move considering how much talk of queue times there's been.  To be honest, you're better off waiting until the game is readily available 24/7 for purchase before buying it, anyway.  Then not only will you avoid all the stress of the buying mini-game but chances are it will have a lot of bugs fixed and be a better game overall.

What I'm trying to say, basically, is settle down and relax; you'll get your chance to play if you wait for it.  Oh, and go back to WoW. :P

not that bad, but they lied.  Thats about as much as i could read of your post... man some people are clueless.  Get back to us  after you pull your head out of your own @$$.
 

Thanks for the well thought out post.  Always nice to read the comments of someone who doesn't manage to read past the first few lines.  Lot of insight in your words.  With people like you on these forums it's hard to believe that most threads manage to turn into flame wars.  If only everyone could take the time like you did, the world would be a better place.

Also - Clueless?  Not quite.  I managed to research the game before considering to buy it.  For example, I can tell you that the name of the company that created it is "Aventurine" not "Adventuritine."
 

I took the time to read every post before that one.  Wich is the path i took to such crap.  Quit putting bandaids on all of thier mistakes mister insightful one.

you can give them the benefit of the doubt if you'd like. Thier mistakes can be yours too.. good day

Originally posted by cessa

lol this game is gonna be rememberd as the biggest mmorpg failure in history

That honor goes to Age of Conan which truly defines the word failure.

Darkfall has just had a slow start. The fact that most people cannot buy it yet does not make it a failure. If the game is fun then it's all good. You guys are just venting your anger here because you want to play it so bad.

If Darkfall will fail it will be because of other reasons than launch. So please stop this pathetic crying: "I CANNOT BUY DARKFALL!! AVENTURINE SUCKS!!!"

Originally posted by Timoshenko

Originally posted by cessa

lol this game is gonna be rememberd as the biggest mmorpg failure in history

 

That honor goes to Age of Conan which truly defines the word failure.

Darkfall has just had a slow start. The fact that most people cannot buy it yet does not make it a failure. If the game is fun then it's all good. You guys are just venting your anger here because you want to play it so bad.

If Darkfall will fail it will be because of other reasons than launch. So please stop this pathetic crying: "I CANNOT BUY DARKFALL!! AVENTURINE SUCKS!!!"

BS.. Aventurine takes the prize on this one.. Slow start  hahaha   limited release, hours upon hours of queue times, constant client crashes, rampant exploiting, empty world, horrid annimations, boring combat, craptastic UI design and I could go on and on..

At least with AoC you have a fully functional game that anyone can buy and get right into. They have a living breathing virtual world and  the features they list for the game are actually there.

Originally posted by khartman2005

 

BS.. Aventurine takes the prize on this one.. Slow start  hahaha   limited release, hours upon hours of queue times, constant client crashes, rampant exploiting, empty world, horrid annimations, boring combat, craptastic UI design and I could go on and on..

At least with AoC you have a fully functional game that anyone can buy and get right into. They have a living breathing virtual world and  the features they list for the game are actually there.

Actually most of the features Funcom listed before launch are not there. Things like:

- DX10
- Drunken Brawling
- Prestige Classes
- Battle formations
- Hell
- etc.

I could go on and on. It's funny when you read some old interviews where Funcom explains all these features. It's easy to SAY all kinds of cool features but it's a much harder thing to actually implement those features

I admit that Darkfall launch is looking bad but it does not matter one bit if they made the game fun. If they game is fun and they can get 200k+ subs then Darkfall is a huge success in my books.

Look at Age of Conan. It had a pretty stable launch but once people got out of Tortage they saw how empty and shallow the game really is and 90% of players quit. Today they have about 75k subs. You don't think that is a massive failure?

Originally posted by Timoshenko

Originally posted by khartman2005

 

BS.. Aventurine takes the prize on this one.. Slow start  hahaha   limited release, hours upon hours of queue times, constant client crashes, rampant exploiting, empty world, horrid annimations, boring combat, craptastic UI design and I could go on and on..

At least with AoC you have a fully functional game that anyone can buy and get right into. They have a living breathing virtual world and  the features they list for the game are actually there.

 

Actually most of the features Funcom listed before launch are not there. Things like:

- DX10
- Drunken Brawling
- Prestige Classes
- Battle formations
- Hell
- etc.

I could go on and on. It's funny when you read some old interviews where Funcom explains all these features. It's easy to SAY all kinds of cool features but it's a much harder thing to actually implement those features

I admit that Darkfall launch is looking bad but it does not matter one bit if they made the game fun. If they game is fun and they can get 200k+ subs then Darkfall is a huge success in my books.

Look at Age of Conan. It had a pretty stable launch but once people got out of Tortage they saw how empty and shallow the game really is and 90% of players quit. Today they have about 75k subs. You don't think that is a massive failure?

I never said it was a massive failure but it sure as hell had a better start and more features and no limited release. Darkfall has failed in almost every category. The only thing they got right was the world design. All Darkfall is a MMO version of counterstrike.. One big first person view PvP arena.

Originally posted by khartman2005

I never said it was a massive failure but it sure as hell had a better start and more features and no limited release. Darkfall has failed in almost every category. The only thing they got right was the world design. All Darkfall is a MMO version of counterstrike.. One big first person view PvP arena.

Um.. you said it takes the prize as the biggest MMO failure ever. So yeah.. you said it.

And we are not only talking about launch here. The guy I responded was talking about the biggest MMO failure and we cannot say that about Darkfall. Not yet. If they keep doing what they are doing now for the next 6 months then I agree with you.

Right now the title of the biggest MMO failure goes to Age of Conan. What other MMO had almost million subs at launch only to lose more than 90% of them and drop down to 75k subs?

Even their previous Game Director thought it was a failure, sold his stock and quit.

Originally posted by Timoshenko

Look at Age of Conan. It had a pretty stable launch but once people got out of Tortage they saw how empty and shallow the game really is and 90% of players quit. Today they have about 75k subs. You don't think that is a massive failure?

I think it is indeed a massive failure, because 75k subs is nothing compared to what they are hoping for.

Remember the quote from them? "WoW is hamburger, AoC is steak!"

They were counting on millions of players.

For Darkfall it's entirely different. Adventuring never had the intention to get a playerbase that large. I think that if AV gets 75k subs for Darkfall, then they will be very happy and consider it (rightfully) a big success.

Originally posted by Timoshenko

Originally posted by khartman2005

I never said it was a massive failure but it sure as hell had a better start and more features and no limited release. Darkfall has failed in almost every category. The only thing they got right was the world design. All Darkfall is a MMO version of counterstrike.. One big first person view PvP arena.

 

Um.. you said it takes the prize as the biggest MMO failure ever. So yeah.. you said it.

And we are not only talking about launch here. The guy I responded was talking about the biggest MMO failure and we cannot say that about Darkfall. Not yet. If they keep doing what they are doing now for the next 6 months then I agree with you.

Right now the title of the biggest MMO failure goes to Age of Conan. What other MMO had almost million subs at launch only to lose more than 90% of them and drop down to 75k subs?

Even their previous Game Director thought it was a failure, sold his stock and quit.

I said Darkfall was a massive failure not AoC.

Originally posted by adammain

Originally posted by colonnelli71

I think its a sad day in the MMO world when a game company can operate and treat customers the way Adventuretine has and people think its funny? Or that its acceptable? Very sad. The whole release of this game has been gross and its only getting worse. Well at least people didn't tell me to go back to playing WoW, thats my favorite retort on these forums. As if everyone must have played WoW and of course we must love it because we actually have a bad opinion about another game?!?  How dare you. I don't beat around the bush... Adventuretine and Blizzard can both suck it.

 

I think its a sad day in the real world when us as consumers feel that we are entilted to a service and/or any company owes us anything without us ever paying a dime. As crappy as the ordering process is, Adventurine has no obligation to create a service that fits your specific needs. This may lose money for them, but that is their problem, not yours. We as consumers have no right to decide whether or not this is acceptable as the service they are providing is a luxury, not a necessity. 

This (bold for emphasis) is what is wrong with all you fanbots. If you weren't so abjectly pathetic I would be laughing.

What sales where? I cant find the ***! thing. Where is this game the  website hasnt changed in ages where can I find it anyone know?

Originally posted by reddog832

What sales where? I cant find the ***! thing. Where is this game the  website hasnt changed in ages where can I find it anyone know?

The game is not for sale, to you.

Move along now....

Originally posted by tcosaddict

   First of all, no.  I will not stop forgiving a small and independent company for having a hard time.  They don't have the resources to do everything they'd like to.  Like I said, no one wants the game to succeed more than them.  The game has only actually started making them money for 2 weeks.  Give them a fucking break.  They said before launch that things would not be instantaneous.  They're making a little bit of progress each day and I have faith that within the next few months, maybe 6 months from now, they will have most if not all issues that are plaguing them at the moment solved.

I don't know where you're getting 10-20k from.  Their forums have something like 350k members, and there's already 10k people or so that have the game.  You really think the other 10k is sitting there every day slowing down the network when they open sales?  They open them during work hours for most people.  If there was only 10-20k people who wanted to play, you can bet your ass the site wouldn't take 10 minutes to load a page during sales.

I'm not saying that PEOPLE are pissed that they can't play this weekend.  That was specifically aimed at the OP.  He was upset that he hadn't managed to get a copy yet and that they would not be having sales again until at least next week.

Well I guess its down to the basics - you are willing to forgive a small company for their blatant mistakes or apparent incompetence, and I do not. You and people who follow do not suffer from this - who cares of I and others who think like me criticise them? However, people like myself do suffer greately because of people like you. Why? Because companies like AV see that they can get away with bad/incomplete products. Notice how many MMOs are polished lately and are having problems at release at our expence? Its because we, consumers, are letting them get away with it. We encourage them to do that, in fact. We send them a message that it is OK to make unvinished/buggy software because "they are small/indie" or "everyone does it" or "they are trying their best". As a software developer myself I do not allow my software to be that way, this is a really bad trend that should be stopped, not encouraged for whatever reason. This is my logic, Im sorry you can't see it.

Well, I sugest you relax, buy a nice single player game, read a good book, and try again another time.

Or go play www.ryzom.com , which is a great sandbox game.

Personally I am enjoying EVE Online atm, ( If I wasnt I would be playing Ryzom :p ) but once the initial rush has passed and the game is somewhat playable, I wil try to get my hands on a copy of Darkfall :p

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Well I guess its down to the basics - you are willing to forgive a small company for their blatant mistakes or apparent incompetence, and I do not. You and people who follow do not suffer from this - who cares of I and others who think like me criticise them? However, people like myself do suffer greately because of people like you. Why? Because companies like AV see that they can get away with bad/incomplete products. Notice how many MMOs are polished lately and are having problems at release at our expence? Its because we, consumers, are letting them get away with it. We encourage them to do that, in fact. We send them a message that it is OK to make unvinished/buggy software because "they are small/indie" or "everyone does it" or "they are trying their best". As a software developer myself I do not allow my software to be that way, this is a really bad trend that should be stopped, not encouraged for whatever reason. This is my logic, Im sorry you can't see it.

They actually have a very good product and probably the best mmo currently on the market, imo.

The distribution of this product, though hell for some, has worked just fine for me (I got in at launch).