*WARNING!!! This thread will require you to read everything and engage in deep thought and conversation. If you cannot do this, then you're wasting your time*

To avoid responses concerning my experience in the genre, I've been playing any and all MMO's since 2001.

So down to the topic at hand. What makes MMORPG's worth $15/mo when no other genre charges that amount?

* It's not the quests, because single player games offer much more complex quests. Some games even offer the players the ability to change the game world with their decisions.

* It's not the group play, because there are numerous examples of single player games allowing a Co-op mode for their games.

* It's not the PvP, because there are numerous single player games offering the ability to PvP against others in a multiplayer mode.

* It can't be the chat, since anyone can IM others or join chat rooms for free.

What is it exactly about MMORPG's that hasn't been done for free, that makes it worth your money. Really think about this. Many people admit to doing large grinds whose only goal is to keep you subscribing. In my opinion, it's illogical to pay extra money to get the same gameplay you can get for free. If you have a logical reason why MMO's should charge a subscription, please reply with it. But before you do, ask yourself if that reason has been given for free elsewhere.

In my opinion, the only distinguishing feature is that MMO's allow you to be a hamster. "Give me $15 and I'll let you jog on this treadmill for 30 days," says the MMO company. Keep in mind that while quality may justify a product having more value than something of lesser quality, a game mechanic of good quality alone doesn't justify a subsciption if someone else offers it for free.

Ignorance!

I think one reason to subsribe to a MMO is if the game is of good quality and allows you to do something that cannot be done anywhere else. One such thing could be a player ran economy, territorial PvP with the ability to form and destory kingdoms and ultimately empires. Player crafting, which can supply goods and services for war efforts, which could also supports a player ran economy.

When I say good quality, I mean the game is technically and mechanically sound. Every feature works with (software) industry standard, the game is feature complete according to expectations and current trends of the genre (ie. PvE and socializing...etc), and the game has regular updates and patches done by a company of professionals who also handle accounting/billing/customer service within industry ethical standards and laws.

The scope of MMO's don't allow you usually, to see or do everything you want to try in one month.

Plus, if you're having fun playing it, it's better than finishing a single player game every month and then buying a new one.  Cheaper, that is.  Honestly a player that's really 'in' to a game is saving money....I think.

This is a very simple question to answer.

Is the experience of playing a given game worth more or less than the equivalent value in fast food and beer?

Nothing relating to gameplay, I don't think. Mostly people just accept it as a set standard that hasn't been shaken as of yet.

I see a monthly fee as support for the company in hopes that they'll continue to provide games you enjoy. Unfortunately, most MMO companies are one trick ponies.

Monthly fees do not translate to better quality service, but it doesn't hurt either.

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Originally posted by Knightsaber2
Honestly a player that's really 'in' to a game is saving money....I think.

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I don't mind having to pay a subscription fee for MMOs... however I don't think it should be $15 a month, I think $10 and under for most games would be better.

As for reason for them charing this monthly fee, only think I could come up with is that we are funding the further development of the games we play, seeing as mmos are suppose to be ever expanding and what not.

Originally posted by nate1980

What makes MMORPG's worth $15/mo when no other genre charges that amount?

People willing to pay that. Same goes for a magnitude of other items and services. Also goes for girlfriends. With the same reasoning your question could have been: Why pay the expenses of having a girlfriend when you can just masturbate. Think about it a little more mate.

Originally posted by nate1980

*WARNING!!! This thread will require you to read everything and engage in deep thought and conversation. If you cannot do this, then you're wasting your time*

To avoid responses concerning my experience in the genre, I've been playing any and all MMO's since 2001.

So down to the topic at hand. What makes MMORPG's worth $15/mo when no other genre charges that amount?

* It's not the quests, because single player games offer much more complex quests. Some games even offer the players the ability to change the game world with their decisions.

* It's not the group play, because there are numerous examples of single player games allowing a Co-op mode for their games.

* It's not the PvP, because there are numerous single player games offering the ability to PvP against others in a multiplayer mode.

* It can't be the chat, since anyone can IM others or join chat rooms for free.

What is it exactly about MMORPG's that hasn't been done for free, that makes it worth your money. Really think about this. Many people admit to doing large grinds whose only goal is to keep you subscribing. In my opinion, it's illogical to pay extra money to get the same gameplay you can get for free. If you have a logical reason why MMO's should charge a subscription, please reply with it. But before you do, ask yourself if that reason has been given for free elsewhere.

In my opinion, the only distinguishing feature is that MMO's allow you to be a hamster. "Give me $15 and I'll let you jog on this treadmill for 30 days," says the MMO company. Keep in mind that while quality may justify a product having more value than something of lesser quality, a game mechanic of good quality alone doesn't justify a subsciption if someone else offers it for free.

What about the IP?  What about the combination of everything you listed on there?  It's also the fact that MMOs offer a "world" that is never offline ( besides updates, crashes, etc) in which the player can just jump in.  No single player game can offer that.  It basically means, if you want to play the game, you HAVE to play online; single players give you a choice.  Most MMO worlds are also seemingly large compared to multiplayer modes of single player games where it's usually based on "joining a server" or a "room" or something along those lines.  Note that I said seemingly, because most MMOs are basically an illusion of large worlds, even though most of the action takes places in intances (not all games though mind you), and player hubs are just large chat rooms basically.  But we live in a world of illusions and people are happier when things seem "tied together" when they're actually not.

Personally I think that $15 a month is a good price for my entertainment dollars.  Its cheaper then buying new single player games each month or going to the movies or the bar with friends.

Its all about personal taste.  If I am enjoying a game and feel that spending $15 a month to play it is worth my money then I have no issues paying for it. 

In todays world $15 for something that gives me 30 days of entertainment is well worth it to me.  Just my 2 cents.

How much does it cost to go to the bar with friends?

How much does it cost to go to the movies with friends/date?

How much do single player games cost to buy?  How many do buy in a 30 day period?

After answering the above questions, does $15 a month seem like a lot for your entertainment dollars?

Originally posted by dimmit77

People willing to pay that. Same goes for a magnitude of other items and services. Also goes for girlfriends. With the same reasoning your question could have been: Why pay the expenses of having a girlfriend when you can just masturbate. Think about it a little more mate.

Ug. This kind of thinking makes me want to throw up.

And I'm a guy.

People will pay it because they see the need for it: they want the content expansions, and stable servers. Games that offer more of this will get more players, and visa versa.

Originally posted by Knightsaber2

The scope of MMO's don't allow you usually, to see or do everything you want to try in one month.

Plus, if you're having fun playing it, it's better than finishing a single player game every month and then buying a new one.  Cheaper, that is.  Honestly a player that's really 'in' to a game is saving money....I think.

1. If "everything" is just a repeat of what you've already done the previous month, then there's a problem. If there are things not available to you in the first month, than are after the first month, there might be a game design problem. (ie. Doing menial task-like quests at lvl 20 is no different than doing them at lvl 60, so experiencing lvl 60 content isn't really experiencing something "new." Grinding to max level in order to PvP is a game design flaw, not a reason to keep playing after one month in my opinion.)

2. I realize that "fun" is hard to logically explain, because people find fun in different ways. This thread is here to discuss the logical reasons people choose to pay a subscription fee for something they can get for free elsewhere. Using the word fun, without explaining "what is" fun is an illogical response.

3. Your last point makes logical sense. A single-player game costs the same amount, usually as a MMORPG, but only lasts 20-40 hours normally. Whereas, a MMORPG will last for months. My argument is that it's the treadmill that's really drawing out the subscription, not really the presense of fun things to do. For example, in a single-player game you are having fun altering your character anyway you please and being immersed in the story the game is leading you through. You don't get this immersion in a MMORPG, because your actions do not change the world in PvE and character classes are pigeon-holed into a specific role for "balance" sake. What you failed to mention is that there are single player games that have longer campaigns and are playable with other people. Take Neverwinter Nights for example. You could play that for free, receive free content updates, paid expansions, and still get the community interaction you get in MMO's all for free. So what justifies the monthly subscription fee really? Another thing you didn't comment on is free to play games, who offer the same gameplay elements as pay to play games, except for free. Yes, they are of lesser quality usually and it being free increases the chances of encountering unlikable people, but remember my first comment towards quality in my OP.

Originally posted by Drafell

This is a very simple question to answer.

Is the experience of playing a given game worth more or less than the equivalent value in fast food and beer?
 

That's irrelevant, because not everyone eats fast food and drinks beer. Keep to the topic. We're talking about MMO's and games exclusively.

I know what you're trying to get at, though. You're trying to say that MMO's are less expensive than other forms of entertainment. However, this thread isn't about that. We need to judge a MMO by its own merits. Not justify MMO's with how expensive something else is. For example, I'm not going to buy product x because product y is cheaper, because product x being more expensive doesn't make product y any better of a product. Product y is still product y and still has the flaws that product y began with before I considered product x.

Originally posted by nate1980

*WARNING!!! This thread will require you to read everything and engage in deep thought and conversation. If you cannot do this, then you're wasting your time* - Pretentious right from the start eh? Alright then.

To avoid responses concerning my experience in the genre, I've been playing any and all MMO's since 2001.

Yeah yeah, blah blah, you are an expert... we've heard it all before.

So down to the topic at hand. What makes MMORPG's worth $15/mo when no other genre charges that amount?

er, like $15 bucks is anything but a pittance. My lunch cost me $13.50 today.

* It's not the quests, because single player games offer much more complex quests. Some games even offer the players the ability to change the game world with their decisions. - Some MMORPG's allow players to change the game world, EVE comes to mind, there are others. As for quests, we play them because they are fun, nothing more.

* It's not the group play, because there are numerous examples of single player games allowing a Co-op mode for their games. - You overlooked the massive part I suppose, most co-op games are poorly run, small world experiences.  I want to interact with thousands of folks in my gaming career, MMO's offer that.

* It's not the PvP, because there are numerous single player games offering the ability to PvP against others in a multiplayer mode. - Yes, but MMO's tend to be larger, more unpredictable, and generally more fun for folks who don't play on an XBOX.

* It can't be the chat, since anyone can IM others or join chat rooms for free. - Yeah, but games give us something to chat about, otherwise why would I bother to chat with anyone else?

What is it exactly about MMORPG's that hasn't been done for free, that makes it worth your money. Really think about this. Many people admit to doing large grinds whose only goal is to keep you subscribing. In my opinion, it's illogical to pay extra money to get the same gameplay you can get for free. If you have a logical reason why MMO's should charge a subscription, please reply with it. But before you do, ask yourself if that reason has been given for free elsewhere. - Yes, the grind amuses me.  I don't mind doing it.  I like being able to grind better than the average bear.  I can do it in a free game as well, currently playing ROM, but I'll be spending cash on this one, I can tell.

In my opinion, the only distinguishing feature is that MMO's allow you to be a hamster. "Give me $15 and I'll let you jog on this treadmill for 30 days," says the MMO company. Keep in mind that while quality may justify a product having more value than something of lesser quality, a game mechanic of good quality alone doesn't justify a subsciption if someone else offers it for free. - Not sure why you've played P2P MMO's for so long then, since the overall game mechanic doesn't amuse you.

You're burned out IMO, and like most people, are now finding enjoyment again in single player games.  Don't worry, you'll tire of them soon enough and be back here in the trenches with the rest of us.

Edit: Oh yes, one more thing, I recall my single player game days, I bought at least 2 games a month for about 40 bucks a pop each.  80 a month then is far more than the 45 a month I pay now for 3 EVE accts.

  Dude this question and how you framed it is not intelligent at all. Infact it is one of the dumbest questions I have ever seen. Single player games cannot put you in an ever changing Dynamic online world with thousands  of other players. Proof is very simple there are millions of people who have played games like WOW and Everquest for 3-4 years. Nobody plays single player games that long.

  $15.00 for a high quality game like WOW is a great deal there is no other product that can entertain you as much as long as an MMO. When you look at the fact that most people pay over $100 a month for television $15 for any mmo is a deal. Now Cable and Sat are ripoffs for sure.

Consistant, reliable unlimited entertainment for dirt cheap.  Besides, no one is forcing you to pay $15 a month to play any game.  People that do, do so at their own choosing.  Not you, me, or anyone else has a right to tell someone where to spend their entertainment dollars.

Originally posted by uohaloran

Nothing relating to gameplay, I don't think. Mostly people just accept it as a set standard that hasn't been shaken as of yet.

I see a monthly fee as support for the company in hopes that they'll continue to provide games you enjoy. Unfortunately, most MMO companies are one trick ponies.

Monthly fees do not translate to better quality service, but it doesn't hurt either.

 

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Originally posted by Knightsaber2
Honestly a player that's really 'in' to a game is saving money....I think.

---

I agree with this.

 

In other words, the monthly fee isn't necessarily justified, which is my point, it's just accepted, which is illogical.

There is one thing your comment about supporting a company made me think about. In single player games with co-op ability or a multiplayer element, you're not able to play with more than X amount of people due to server constraints. Some servers are the players own computers, while others are hosted for free by the company. So maybe a monthly fee to help support the cost of servers, ongoing development, and customer service is justified, but first the product must offer a reason, that no other game has without a subscription fee to need a subscription. I used Neverwinter Nights as an example already, so I'll use it again. Keep in mind that there are numerous F2P MMO's also. How many people does a person actually interact with at one time? I think Raids and PvP has been the largest community activities and even then, the amount of people didn't exceed what freely hosted servers offer or what player hosted servers can handle. So if they can do it for free, it's only logical to expect that other companies can do it for free too. It's illogical to pay for a game, just to see thousands of other people, when in reality a person only interacts with no one all the way up to maybe 20-40 people, possibly a hundred or two if you are PvPing.

$15/month isn't much compared to the amount of time that a lot of players spend on a game.  If a game isn't worth paying $15/month to play, it's unlikely it would be worth playing if it were free--even apart from the things deleterious to gameplay that usually come with a game being free.

In reality, it's all about particular games.  If there's one particular game that you really want to play, and it happens to be an MMORPG, then that's the reason to play an MMORPG.  It is, of course, only the reason to play that particular game, and not to play other MMORPGs.

Well I don't know about you all but I save money playing MMO's.  Buy very few (approximately one a year) single player games anymore (not that they are putting out a lot of what I like anyways).  Used to buy at least 1 single player game a month so MMO's are a great deal for me.

Actually in the interest of saving money we've done some 'drastic' stuff here at my house.  We no longer have cable TV, or console game systems, or cell phones - instead we opted for very high speed internet.  Saving us approximately $200 a month and that doesn't include the add on stuff we are no longer buying (plus we made some money selling the consoles and the games).  We also now limit ourselves to eating out someplace nice once a month.  No one in the house has lost their job yet (knock on wood) but the news on the economy caused us to sit down and realize we'd be better to start preparing for that possibility now than if/when it happens - should have been preparing for it all along.

For $15 a month I get a lot of entertainment out of an MMO, not sure I can get the same amount for same price out of any other medium including single player games, cable TV, movies, etc.

The nice thing is that you can switch MMO's almost like switching channels - play a month or two of SWG then switch to a month or two of LOTRO etc.  Since most of my family and friends has an account on at least one game I play there's always someone to play with.  Smart move on the MMO side of things is that rarely (if ever) are accounts wiped.

Heck even game night (once a month) where the entire extended family gets together is expensive - no one wants to cook for the crowd (or more likely clean up the mess) and pizza for 10-15 people is pretty expensive.  Though we usually play cards - the actual game doesn't cost a lot of money each year (cards do have to be replaced once a year or so).

So went back and reread the OP.  I actually think it's the combination of activities that MMO's get right.  Somedays after work all I want to do is log on and kill everything in sight.  Other days I want to spend hours crafting, other times I just want to get on and chat with a friend.  Yeah - I'd say it's the combo that MMO's have gotten right.

Originally posted by vinzone

I don't mind having to pay a subscription fee for MMOs... however I don't think it should be $15 a month, I think $10 and under for most games would be better.

As for reason for them charing this monthly fee, only think I could come up with is that we are funding the further development of the games we play, seeing as mmos are suppose to be ever expanding and what not.

Further development of kill x for y quests or raid this 12 times for x, or now you can kill each other on this map for 5 months?

Let's face it, the quality of content really isn't worth the subscription fee. It's just treadmill stuff. Things meant to keep you subscribing and busy. So basically you're paying them money to develop silly stuff to keep you paying for more silly stuff. My point is not that MMORPG's can't be worth a monthly fee, it's that they currently aren't worth one judging by the type of things the allow you to do ingame compared to what you can do for free in other games.