Originally posted by Litigator_AB

Banks and lending institutions are in many senses the foundation or the bedrock of the security people need to feel comfortable in a modern economy.

That alone should warrant more regulation. 

Money and banking are among the most regulated industries in our economy, and have been all along. That has not made anyone more secure. Why would MORE regulation suddenly make it more secure?

I'm for a lot more regulation in Europe, especially for banks and small businesses.

Originally posted by goneglockin

Originally posted by Fishermage

It's time to separate bank from state.

 

Might as well wish you could separate 'the stank' from shit you silly right winger.  The more I read your posts, the more it seems to me you have no use for goverment at all and would be happier living in anarchy.  I suggest joining a militia and posting on these boards less.

I, for one, have very little use for government, and see on a daily basis just how far the government has overstepped its bounds...I guess knowing that government is nothing but a giant grossly inefficient machine makes me a silly right winger...except that I have history on my side...You want to start a business and fail?  Run it just like our federal government is run.

I'm much of a communist so, yes. When companies got only one single aim and that is to earn money and when it's been showed that most will do almost everything to do so regulations are necessary. Without someone to look that you're doing your job, the temptation to not do so will for many be overwhelming.

Originally posted by Fishermage

Money and banking are among the most regulated industries in our economy, and have been all along. That has not made anyone more secure. Why would MORE regulation suddenly make it more secure?

Chairman Franks, however, is probably right; it is not the lack of regulation but "non-regulation" (not enforcing rules on the books) that is the real problem.

A famouse quote is that the SEC roars like a lion but bites like a flea.  We are uncomfortable, and in many respects ought to be, with increased, enhanced, or simply more regulation.  We believed, and are more or less correct, in saying that regulation can undermine economic growth and even freedom.  Regulation, though, is not big brother.  Big Brother is your tax records, your phone records, your personal email records.  Regulations is disclosure.

Hence, the hedge fund industry is willing to be regulated by the Federal Reserve so long as those disclosures are not made to the public.  What does that mean?  THAT MEANS ZERO TRANSPARENCY.

Edit:  I think it is apparent that we need effective regulation.  It is not about bashing, or reorganizing, our regulatory agencies.  It is about simply doing the job... to protect the investing public, ensure confidence in our financial system, uphold the rule of law, and ensure that legitimate businesses have a fair shot.  If I am not making sense, perhaps I need to reword or rethink what I am writing.  

Simply put, Citigroup and others exploded because, in my view, one factor was non-regulation.  Madoff got away with what he got away with because of non-regulation.  It was not the lack of rules; it was the lack of enforcement of those rules.

Aside:  my concern is the rise of London, Frankfurt, Shanghai, Singapore, et al. at the cost and expense of New York.  We need finance; we need Wall Street.  We need a strong US dollar.  We need to get serious about a strong, fair, and free economy or risk slipping into a DEPRESSION.  Underestimating this will prolong, and even worsen, economic stagnation, pain, joblessness, and myriad other problems.  We ultimately need that pro-American, entrepreneurial but fair spirit again.  We are a nation of fighters, and we will get through this, but we ought to be serious about it.  We want to prevent what we are in from happening again. 

Originally posted by Draenor

Originally posted by goneglockin

Originally posted by Fishermage

It's time to separate bank from state.

 

Might as well wish you could separate 'the stank' from shit you silly right winger.  The more I read your posts, the more it seems to me you have no use for goverment at all and would be happier living in anarchy.  I suggest joining a militia and posting on these boards less.

 

I, for one, have very little use for government, and see on a daily basis just how far the government has overstepped its bounds...I guess knowing that government is nothing but a giant grossly inefficient machine makes me a silly right winger...except that I have history on my side...You want to start a business and fail?  Run it just like our federal government is run.

err...Most progress and history has been made by Governments. You're just fortunate to live in one thats better than most, even if you don't know it.

We must ask ourselves what is the most effective course of action for the situations we are in today. The reason regulation has not worked recently is because republicans truly believed it was a good idea to let business oversee their own government regulation. I.E. letting the fox guard the hen house approach.

What we need is regulatory agencies that are truly independent and that have the integrity and courage to do what is right. The idea that this shouldn’t be done because of the past or because government is not capable, is simply wrong.

In a democracy we are free to do the things that need to be done the way they need to be done. We only need to have the will to do so.

Since the eighties there has been three major disasters involving the banking industry that have cost the taxpayer billions. All of these could have been easily prevented with smart, fair, common sense oversight that was independent of the congress and the banking industry.
 

You made an excellent point about being independent from the Congress.

Powerful interests will, literally, call a member of Congress and demand that that member put pressure on the regulatory agency to call of the watch dogs.

Too often this occurs.  Independent, transparent, fair, lawful, accountable, but effective. 

Originally posted by declaredemer

Originally posted by Fishermage

Money and banking are among the most regulated industries in our economy, and have been all along. That has not made anyone more secure. Why would MORE regulation suddenly make it more secure?

 

Chairman Franks, however, is probably right; it is not the lack of regulation but "non-regulation" (not enforcing rules on the books) that is the real problem.

 

A famouse quote is that the SEC roars like a lion but bites like a flea.  We are uncomfortable, and in many respects ought to be, with increased, enhanced, or simply more regulation.  We believed, and are more or less correct, in saying that regulation can undermine economic growth and even freedom.  Regulation, though, is not big brother.  Big Brother is your tax records, your phone records, your personal email records.  Regulations is disclosure.

 

Hence, the hedge fund industry is willing to be regulated by the Federal Reserve so long as those disclosures are not made to the public.  What does that mean?  THAT MEANS ZERO TRANSPARENCY.

 

 

Edit:  I think it is apparent that we need effective regulation.  It is not about bashing, or reorganizing, our regulatory agencies.  It is about simply doing the job... to protect the investing public, ensure confidence in our financial system, uphold the rule of law, and ensure that legitimate businesses have a fair shot.  If I am not making sense, perhaps I need to reword or rethink what I am writing.  

 

Simply put, Citigroup and others exploded because, in my view, one factor was non-regulation.  Madoff got away with what he got away with because of non-regulation.  It was not the lack of rules; it was the lack of enforcement of those rules.

 

Aside:  my concern is the rise of London, Frankfurt, Shanghai, Singapore, et al. at the cost and expense of New York.  We need finance; we need Wall Street.  We need a strong US dollar.  We need to get serious about a strong, fair, and free economy or risk slipping into a DEPRESSION.  Underestimating this will prolong, and even worsen, economic stagnation, pain, joblessness, and myriad other problems.  We ultimately need that pro-American, entrepreneurial but fair spirit again.  We are a nation of fighters, and we will get through this, but we ought to be serious about it.  We want to prevent what we are in from happening again. 

I think it is far more apparent that there is no way to effectively regulate something as complex as any facet of the economy, and politicians and bureaucrats only make matters worse. It seems, in every circumstance, the more regulated an industry is, the less stable it is, the less efficient it is, the less able to deliver the goods.

It seems that no matter how many ways we try it, all the regulations in the world do exactly the opposite of what they are supposedly designed to do.

Then, when they fail, as they always do, an army of government loving bureacrats gets up and blames freedom.

Looking at your aside -- it is regulation and embracing socialism that is turning us into a third world country. We need to rediscover liberty. The time is now.

What YOU are proscribing will guarantee it will happen again, and worse the next time.

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by Draenor

Originally posted by goneglockin

Originally posted by Fishermage

It's time to separate bank from state.

 

Might as well wish you could separate 'the stank' from shit you silly right winger.  The more I read your posts, the more it seems to me you have no use for goverment at all and would be happier living in anarchy.  I suggest joining a militia and posting on these boards less.

 

I, for one, have very little use for government, and see on a daily basis just how far the government has overstepped its bounds...I guess knowing that government is nothing but a giant grossly inefficient machine makes me a silly right winger...except that I have history on my side...You want to start a business and fail?  Run it just like our federal government is run.

 

err...Most progress and history has been made by Governments. You're just fortunate to live in one thats better than most, even if you don't know it.

We must ask ourselves what is the most effective course of action for the situations we are in today. The reason regulation has not worked recently is because republicans truly believed it was a good idea to let business oversee their own government regulation. I.E. letting the fox guard the hen house approach.

What we need is regulatory agencies that are truly independent and that have the integrity and courage to do what is right. The idea that this shouldn’t be done because of the past or because government is not capable, is simply wrong.

In a democracy we are free to do the things that need to be done the way they need to be done. We only need to have the will to do so.

Since the eighties there has been three major disasters involving the banking industry that have cost the taxpayer billions. All of these could have been easily prevented with smart, fair, common sense oversight that was independent of the congress and the banking industry.
 

We do not have independent people who are capable of coercing other humans without becoming corrupt. People can not be trsuted with authority over one another in the economic sphere. How many times does this have to happen before folks realize it?

Well, at least the number of people who understand these things is growing. Those three major disasters were all caused by government, and so will the next one. maybe after the next one, people will see. Not likely but I am ever hopeful.

Originally posted by declaredemer

You made an excellent point about being independent from the Congress.

 

 

Powerful interests will, literally, call a member of Congress and demand that that member put pressure on the regulatory agency to call of the watch dogs.

 

 

Too often this occurs.  Independent, transparent, fair, lawful, accountable, but effective. 

I don’t see another way TBH. Congress’s focus it far to short term, and they always give way to powerful interest.
Another advantage is that the people responsible for oversight can truly be held accountable.
 

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by Draenor

Originally posted by goneglockin

Originally posted by Fishermage

It's time to separate bank from state.

 

Might as well wish you could separate 'the stank' from shit you silly right winger.  The more I read your posts, the more it seems to me you have no use for goverment at all and would be happier living in anarchy.  I suggest joining a militia and posting on these boards less.

 

I, for one, have very little use for government, and see on a daily basis just how far the government has overstepped its bounds...I guess knowing that government is nothing but a giant grossly inefficient machine makes me a silly right winger...except that I have history on my side...You want to start a business and fail?  Run it just like our federal government is run.

 

err...Most progress and history has been made by Governments. You're just fortunate to live in one thats better than most, even if you don't know it.

We must ask ourselves what is the most effective course of action for the situations we are in today. The reason regulation has not worked recently is because republicans truly believed it was a good idea to let business oversee their own government regulation. I.E. letting the fox guard the hen house approach.

What we need is regulatory agencies that are truly independent and that have the integrity and courage to do what is right. The idea that this shouldn’t be done because of the past or because government is not capable, is simply wrong.

In a democracy we are free to do the things that need to be done the way they need to be done. We only need to have the will to do so.

Since the eighties there has been three major disasters involving the banking industry that have cost the taxpayer billions. All of these could have been easily prevented with smart, fair, common sense oversight that was independent of the congress and the banking industry.
 

 

We do not have independent people who are capable of coercing other humans without becoming corrupt. People can not be trsuted with authority over one another in the economic sphere. How many times does this have to happen before folks realize it?

Well, at least the number of people who understand these things is growing. Those three major disasters were all caused by government, and so will the next one. maybe after the next one, people will see. Not likely but I am ever hopeful.

I think Government failed because it didn't provide real oversight. Do you remember certain politicians saying that social security should be put in the stock market? This is the type of oversight we had.

And I think your wrong. There are plenty of people who care about their country and the people around them. People of character that do what’s right, and want to do what's right. Most of these problems didn't occur because people were trying to do the wrong thing. They happened because of bad leadership that encouraged bad practices. Where this leadership came from doesn't seem to be the real issue to me.

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by Draenor

Originally posted by goneglockin

Originally posted by Fishermage

It's time to separate bank from state.

 

Might as well wish you could separate 'the stank' from shit you silly right winger.  The more I read your posts, the more it seems to me you have no use for goverment at all and would be happier living in anarchy.  I suggest joining a militia and posting on these boards less.

 

I, for one, have very little use for government, and see on a daily basis just how far the government has overstepped its bounds...I guess knowing that government is nothing but a giant grossly inefficient machine makes me a silly right winger...except that I have history on my side...You want to start a business and fail?  Run it just like our federal government is run.

 

err...Most progress and history has been made by Governments. You're just fortunate to live in one thats better than most, even if you don't know it.

We must ask ourselves what is the most effective course of action for the situations we are in today. The reason regulation has not worked recently is because republicans truly believed it was a good idea to let business oversee their own government regulation. I.E. letting the fox guard the hen house approach.

What we need is regulatory agencies that are truly independent and that have the integrity and courage to do what is right. The idea that this shouldn’t be done because of the past or because government is not capable, is simply wrong.

In a democracy we are free to do the things that need to be done the way they need to be done. We only need to have the will to do so.

Since the eighties there has been three major disasters involving the banking industry that have cost the taxpayer billions. All of these could have been easily prevented with smart, fair, common sense oversight that was independent of the congress and the banking industry.
 

 

We do not have independent people who are capable of coercing other humans without becoming corrupt. People can not be trsuted with authority over one another in the economic sphere. How many times does this have to happen before folks realize it?

Well, at least the number of people who understand these things is growing. Those three major disasters were all caused by government, and so will the next one. maybe after the next one, people will see. Not likely but I am ever hopeful.

I think Government failed because it didn't provide real oversight. Do you remember certain politicians saying that social security should be put in the stock market? This is the type of oversight we had.

And I think your wrong. There are plenty of people who care about their country and the people around them. People of character that do what’s right, and want to do what's right. Most of these problems didn't occur because people were trying to do the wrong thing. They happened because of bad leadership that encouraged bad practices. Where this leadership came from doesn't seem to be the real issue to me.

That's the problem: government CAN'T do what you want it to do. Show me these people -- names please. You don't need people who care, don't need people of character -- no, you need perfect human beings who are capable of making near infinite calculations, and these people must be forever incorruptible. They must also be able to ensure that similar people will exist for generations. The trouble is, what YOU advocate rewards corruption and power lusters and breaks down men of character. It just doesn't work. never has and never will.

You guys have been preaching this stuff since plato and it always fails. Not gonna work. People can't be trusted with the power you want to give them.